[swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
Hallo SWINOGer I hope, you're enjoying already the holidays somewhere around. We're having here a little difficulties with a german lawyer. We're offering shared hosting services. One of our customers is sharing links to uploaded.net, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner which - apparently - we cannot provide due to restrictions of the data protection law of Switzerland. They're supplying us this judgement: http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html . Question to the community: 1. What are you doing in such situations? (Yes, appart from contact your lawyer ;-) ). 2. Did you have similar issues and how did you handle them? I wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year. kind regards Pascal Wagenhofer Technical Services Q-X GmbH Schmittestrasse 5 Postfach 61 CH-8308 Illnau / Switzerland Phone 0840 11 11 10 (International +41 840 11 11 10) (Lokaltarif) Fax 0840 22 22 20 (International +41 840 22 22 20) (Lokaltarif) www.Q-X.chhttp://www.q-x.ch/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
There was another german ruling, that pornography does not fulfill the requirements to be protected under copyright law... See this article (German only): http://www.chip.de/news/Urteil-Raubkopien-primitiver-Pornos-nicht-strafbar_62826633.html Might be an angle to approach this case ;-) Kind regards, Viktor On 23.12.2014 13:06, Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer wrote: Hallo SWINOGer I hope, you’re enjoying already the holidays somewhere around. We’re having here a little difficulties with a german lawyer. We’re offering shared hosting services. One of our customers is sharing links to uploaded.net, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner which – apparently – we cannot provide due to restrictions of the data protection law of Switzerland. They’re supplying us this judgement: http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html . Question to the community: 1.What are you doing in such situations? (Yes, appart from contact your lawyer ;-) ). 2.Did you have similar issues and how did you handle them? I wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year. kind regards Pascal Wagenhofer Technical Services Q-X GmbH Schmittestrasse 5 Postfach 61 CH-8308 Illnau / Switzerland Phone 0840 11 11 10 (International +41 840 11 11 10) (Lokaltarif) Fax 0840 22 22 20 (International +41 840 22 22 20) (Lokaltarif) www.Q-X.ch http://www.q-x.ch/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
Am 23.12.2014 um 13:06 schrieb Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer wagenho...@q-x.ch mailto:wagenho...@q-x.ch: Hallo SWINOGer I hope, you’re enjoying already the holidays somewhere around. We’re having here a little difficulties with a german lawyer. We’re offering shared hosting services. One of our customers is sharing links to uploaded.net http://uploaded.net/, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner which – apparently – we cannot provide due to restrictions of the data protection law of Switzerland. They’re supplying us this judgement:http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html . Question to the community: 1. What are you doing in such situations? (Yes, appart from contact your lawyer ;-) ). 2. Did you have similar issues and how did you handle them? I wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year. How much jurisdiction does a German court have in Switzerland anyway? Can’t you ask them to go to a Swiss court in Lausanne or wherever that stuff is handled? Oh wait, that would mean additional cost (like working with a lawyer in Switzerland, of all things), most likely without a ROI in the end. So, it’s easier trying to intimidate the hosting-company. If what whois provides is not enough - tough luck. Rainer ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
Am 23.12.2014 um 13:06 schrieb Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer wagenho...@q-x.ch mailto:wagenho...@q-x.ch: Hallo SWINOGer I hope, you’re enjoying already the holidays somewhere around. We’re having here a little difficulties with a german lawyer. We’re offering shared hosting services. One of our customers is sharing links to uploaded.net http://uploaded.net/, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner which – apparently – we cannot provide due to restrictions of the data protection law of Switzerland. They’re supplying us this judgement: http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html . Question to the community: 1. What are you doing in such situations? (Yes, appart from contact your lawyer ;-) ). Assuming you are in Switzerland they can decide whatever they want in germany according to german law but if they want to enforce it, then they have to ask for help from the swiss authorities (Rechtshilfeverfahren). However the swiss side would only provide help if the request would be valid under swiss law as well. In other words, you can simply sit back and wait until a swiss judge asks you to provide the information. Then you are safe as you only followed what a swiss court has ruled. Otherwise you risk of giving out information whereas your customer could sue you because under swiss law you are not allowed to give it out. The only exception would probably if there is imminent danger which requires immediate action to prevent severe damage. The more interesting question in this judgment from 2011(so already 3 years old, do you have that old logs) is that they talk about copyright infringement. However linking to a download page can not be considered illegal as downloading copyrighted content is not illegal neither under swiss law. Only providing the download (uploading of the content, not a link to content) is considered illegal. 2. Did you have similar issues and how did you handle them? Not directly that way but, yes. Let the police work it out between them. As a swiss entity you are obliged to follow swiss laws and nothing else. otherwhise we would have tons of DCMA court cases here. The only thing I usually see is some Lawyers (in big quotes) trying to intimidate the end user to try to stop what they think is piracy. MPAA pays millions and millions for this with no result (accoring to the Sony leaks...). I would not worry until the swiss police asks you the information with a court order according to swiss law. If you still have the information after that many years is then another story. I wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year. kind regards Pascal Wagenhofer Technical Services Q-X GmbH Schmittestrasse 5 Postfach 61 CH-8308 Illnau / Switzerland Phone 0840 11 11 10 (International +41 840 11 11 10) (Lokaltarif) Fax 0840 22 22 20 (International +41 840 22 22 20) (Lokaltarif) www.Q-X.ch http://www.q-x.ch/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch mailto:swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog Andreas Fink CEO DataCell ehf CEO Backbone ehf --- Tel: +41-61-330 Fax: +41-61-331 Mobile: +41-79-2457333 Address: Clarastrasse 3, 4058 Basel, Switzerland E-Mail: andr...@fink.org mailto:andr...@fink.org www.datacell.com http://www.datacell.com/, www.backbone.is http://www.backbone.is/, www.finkconsulting.com http://www.finkconsulting.com/ www.fink.org http://www.fink.org/ --- Jabber/XMPP: andr...@fink.org mailto:andr...@fink.org ICQ: 8239353 Skype: andreasfink ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
Hello Swinoggers, Have fun for this end of year ;) I such a case, I will simply answer to this lawyer to address a formal request to a swiss judge, explaining him that due to the law you cannot fulfill his request without a legal request from within Switzerland. Like this you will content him because he will know where to look up (and normally cease to contact you directly), and your customer wont be able to sue you if you respect the swiss law. Also you can transmit the request to your customer, asking him to care about the issue, in order to let him solve the issue by himself, and state the lawyer that you have transmitted the case to your customer, but due to the law you cannot provide more informations regarding the local laws. In both cases you will be clean, and you will have fulfilled the request within the law and proved your good will . Best regards, and merry X (hehe) mas naz qu'ils n'en suivront pas moins les memes errements, dusses-tu en crever marc aurele De : swinog-boun...@lists.swinog.ch [mailto:swinog-boun...@lists.swinog.ch] De la part de Rainer Duffner Envoyé : mardi 23 décembre 2014 13:23 À : Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer Cc : swi...@swinog.ch Objet : Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar? Am 23.12.2014 um 13:06 schrieb Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer wagenho...@q-x.ch: Hallo SWINOGer I hope, youre enjoying already the holidays somewhere around. Were having here a little difficulties with a german lawyer. Were offering shared hosting services. One of our customers is sharing links to http://uploaded.net/ uploaded.net, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner which apparently we cannot provide due to restrictions of the data protection law of Switzerland. Theyre supplying us this judgement: http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/olgs/koeln/j2011/6_U_87_10urteil20110325.html . Question to the community: 1. What are you doing in such situations? (Yes, appart from contact your lawyer ;-) ). 2. Did you have similar issues and how did you handle them? I wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year. How much jurisdiction does a German court have in Switzerland anyway? Cant you ask them to go to a Swiss court in Lausanne or wherever that stuff is handled? Oh wait, that would mean additional cost (like working with a lawyer in Switzerland, of all things), most likely without a ROI in the end. So, its easier trying to intimidate the hosting-company. If what whois provides is not enough - tough luck. Rainer ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Auskunft über Personendaten / deutsches Recht anwendbar?
Hi * on the Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:06:36PM +, Q-X GmbH - Pascal Wagenhofer wrote: One of our customers is sharing links to uploaded.net, which contains music, which might be copyright protected. Well, _linking_ to it is not illegal in the first place. So you can tell this lawyers their case is totally meritless, and they can go fuck off. Write it a bit nicer than that, though ;) They could of course go to upladed.net and try to get to the person really doing the maybe copyright infringement. But there as well, they won't get anywhere without swiss court order (uploaded.net being swiss as well). The german law agency is now requesting the data of the owner We'll that agency is trying to get you to do something illegal ;). Cheers Seegras -- Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are likely to end up with neither. -- Bruce Schneier ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
