date:20200601

On 6/1/20 8:41 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> Merging the Windows FileMgr patch you have been keeping for Xiphos
> into something build configurable.

Y'know, what that patch provides is something needed by virtually all
Sword apps.  Xiphos just ran into it headlong the hard way, way back
when 3.0 was first released, when a Spanish speaker wanted to review
Xiphos and it choked on startup because his login name (consequently his
home directory) is accented.  It's the filesystem UTF-16 thing.
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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

On 6/1/20 8:18 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
> Heck, could there even be a general open source translation library
> for the many common strings that modern UIs have. OK, Cancel, Edit,
> Open, Save, Help.

The big-name toolkits like GTK have exactly those already.
Try "strings /usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo", for example.
Then replace "sv" with any of the other entries you find there.
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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

Great. Right. The final things I had on my to-do list for this release:

Renaming the __u64 style macros to something like SW_u64.

Merging the Windows FileMgr patch you have been keeping for Xiphos into 
something build configurable.

A large refactoring commit I have locally which completes the camelCase 
normalization of the public API but doesn't yet pass all unit tests. Need to 
debug and find what I missed.



On June 1, 2020 5:22:58 PM MST, Greg Hellings  wrote:
>On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:57 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
>wrote:
>
>> No, The DBG wanted to discourage sharing of license keys by creating
>> unique keys per user and embedding some part of the user's name in
>the key
>> to let them know their identity will be known if they share.  It is
>not
>> enforced to any particular OS login or anything.
>>
>> Some of this delay is my fault.  The "unique per user" key
>recognition was
>> added to SWORD about 8 months or so and we haven't released a new
>official
>> stable branch yet.  trunk is pretty stable and I use it for Bishop
>> releases, but other frontends have policies to only use official
>stable
>> branch releases.  I must be remembering wrong, but I thought I heard
>> Bibletime reported it was working ok in their latest release so I
>thought
>> they were using trunk.
>>
>Bibletime compiles against trunk, I'm sure, as part of its testing
>matrix.
>But I don't believe it uses trunk for releases. I'm fairly sure your
>work
>on Bishop is the only one that leverages unreleased code other than the
>couple of immediately necessary patches that Karl mentioned I grabbed
>for
>Fedora repos.
>
>Please, let's get our heads together to figure out how the release
>process
>needs to go for 1.9 and let's make it happen!
>
>--Greg
>
>> I am not sure what Xiphos is using for their new release.
>>
>> Troy
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/20 1:53 PM, Michael H wrote:
>>
>> I tried the license in Bibletime 3.0, and it fails to authorize.
>>
>> I've tried to authorize the NA28 on Alkitab Bible Study 4.0 (Build
>> 20200510) and it fails to authorize.
>>
>> I haven't figured out how to install the latest Xiphos yet (on an
>> Ubuntu 18.04 system running Cinnamon desktop... still waiting the
>20.04 to
>> drop.) The version I have it seemed to authorize (it never said
>> 'successful' or 'failed' that I saw, just removed the authorization
>box
>> after a long time.) But then shows no verse text.
>>
>> On my Linux Desktop and my Mac Desktop, I don't put my full
>credentials
>> into the login user profile (usually just my last initial or less
>than the
>> complete name.) Could this be causing a registration error?  I've
>never
>> seen any user setup on Bibletime or any Sword program, but I did note
>that
>> the license is obviously trying to look like it's based on my name. I
>> didn't see any warning about what it would validate against, but then
>it's
>> been 30 plus years since my German was tested beyond yes or no.
>>
>> In Bishop, it works and I don't see any issues.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:27 PM Troy A. Griffitts
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB
>>>
>>> Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.
>>>
>>> It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from
>Münster,
>>> as well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to adjust the data
>by
>>> century. Hover over a cell and you'll get details with direct links
>into
>>> the NTVMR at for the witness and taken directly to the chapter.
>>>
>>> I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration,
>but
>>> Bishop's code is really simple here and would act as a good example:
>>>
>>> See: the method in verseStudy:
>>> variantGraph
>>> witnessStudy
>>> alignmentTable
>>> dECMApp
>>>
>>> Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop.
>witnessStudy
>>> sounds like the one you're after.
>>>
>>> Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working well
>and
>>> I heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of Xiphos which
>should
>>> work too.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Troy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  wrote:

 Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features
 similar to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript
>images
 were available for view directly to that verse. This made it
>popular with
 Biblical Criticism folks.

 In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
 manuscripts, developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed
>'what to
 use besides Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for
>licensing to
 open on Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct
>tie in to
 the new testament manuscript room.

 1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab,
 Bibletime) that runs on Macos will

Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:57 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> No, The DBG wanted to discourage sharing of license keys by creating
> unique keys per user and embedding some part of the user's name in the key
> to let them know their identity will be known if they share.  It is not
> enforced to any particular OS login or anything.
>
> Some of this delay is my fault.  The "unique per user" key recognition was
> added to SWORD about 8 months or so and we haven't released a new official
> stable branch yet.  trunk is pretty stable and I use it for Bishop
> releases, but other frontends have policies to only use official stable
> branch releases.  I must be remembering wrong, but I thought I heard
> Bibletime reported it was working ok in their latest release so I thought
> they were using trunk.
>
Bibletime compiles against trunk, I'm sure, as part of its testing matrix.
But I don't believe it uses trunk for releases. I'm fairly sure your work
on Bishop is the only one that leverages unreleased code other than the
couple of immediately necessary patches that Karl mentioned I grabbed for
Fedora repos.

Please, let's get our heads together to figure out how the release process
needs to go for 1.9 and let's make it happen!

--Greg

> I am not sure what Xiphos is using for their new release.
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 6/1/20 1:53 PM, Michael H wrote:
>
> I tried the license in Bibletime 3.0, and it fails to authorize.
>
> I've tried to authorize the NA28 on Alkitab Bible Study 4.0 (Build
> 20200510) and it fails to authorize.
>
> I haven't figured out how to install the latest Xiphos yet (on an
> Ubuntu 18.04 system running Cinnamon desktop... still waiting the 20.04 to
> drop.) The version I have it seemed to authorize (it never said
> 'successful' or 'failed' that I saw, just removed the authorization box
> after a long time.) But then shows no verse text.
>
> On my Linux Desktop and my Mac Desktop, I don't put my full credentials
> into the login user profile (usually just my last initial or less than the
> complete name.) Could this be causing a registration error?  I've never
> seen any user setup on Bibletime or any Sword program, but I did note that
> the license is obviously trying to look like it's based on my name. I
> didn't see any warning about what it would validate against, but then it's
> been 30 plus years since my German was tested beyond yes or no.
>
> In Bishop, it works and I don't see any issues.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:27 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.
>>
>>
>> http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB
>>
>> Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.
>>
>> It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from Münster,
>> as well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to adjust the data by
>> century. Hover over a cell and you'll get details with direct links into
>> the NTVMR at for the witness and taken directly to the chapter.
>>
>> I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration, but
>> Bishop's code is really simple here and would act as a good example:
>>
>> See: the method in verseStudy:
>> variantGraph
>> witnessStudy
>> alignmentTable
>> dECMApp
>>
>> Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop. witnessStudy
>> sounds like the one you're after.
>>
>> Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working well and
>> I heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of Xiphos which should
>> work too.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Troy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  wrote:
>>>
>>> Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features
>>> similar to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images
>>> were available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
>>> Biblical Criticism folks.
>>>
>>> In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
>>> manuscripts, developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to
>>> use besides Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to
>>> open on Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to
>>> the new testament manuscript room.
>>>
>>> 1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab,
>>> Bibletime) that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?
>>>
>>> 2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop to
>>> any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Y'all:

 I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a long
 time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the conf
 file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.

 But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
 Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then crashes
 on OK.

Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:54 PM Michael H  wrote:

> It seems Bibletime also uses transifex.
>
> It sure seems like there's a lot of duplication here.. is it possible to
> somehow produce a Crosswire UI translation table instead of 8-10 app
> translation tables?
>

This has been a question I've pondered, as well. Could there be a potential
for multiple of our apps to support the same set of translations?

Heck, could there even be a general open source translation library for the
many common strings that modern UIs have. OK, Cancel, Edit, Open, Save,
Help.

--Greg

>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:34 PM David Haslam  wrote:
>
>> The *transifex* figure of *0%* strings translated for *English (United
>> Kingdom)* seems rather bizarre to me.
>>
>> Even if *And Bible* were deemed to have been written in *English (United
>> States)*, that would still make little sense.
>>
>> And we know that our friend *Martin Denham* is British.
>>
>> Even so, it's also apparent that many major languages have less than
>> *70%* as a score, with even *Spanish* having now dropped just below this
>> threshold.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Friday, 29 May 2020 16:54, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.
>>
>> https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>>
>>> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed
>>> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these
>>> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>>>
>>>
>>> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation
>>> by some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm
>>> aware, not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the
>>> existing translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code
>>> changes; every time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one
>>> translates, the translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce
>>> would-be translators to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos'
>>> Help selections is an explicit invitation for such translators.
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

The transifex figure of 0% strings translated for English (United Kingdom) 
seems rather bizarre to me.

Even if And Bible were deemed to have been written in English (United States), 
that would still make little sense.

And we know that our friend Martin Denham is British.

Even so, it's also apparent that many major languages have less than 70% as a 
score, with even Spanish having now dropped just below this threshold.

Best regards,

David

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, 29 May 2020 16:54, Michael H  wrote:

> AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.
>
> https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>>> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed 
>>> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these 
>>> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>>
>> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation by 
>> some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm aware, 
>> not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the existing 
>> translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code changes; every 
>> time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one translates, the 
>> translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce would-be translators 
>> to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos' Help selections is an 
>> explicit invitation for such translators.
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

On 6/1/20 4:56 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>
> I am not sure what Xiphos is using for their new release.
>

Greg has produced sword-1.8.1-19 for Fedora & similar, which is (I
understand) 1.8.1 plus a few recent patches, mostly obviously to bring
in the no-self-closing-div patch.  Yes, we could use a new, real Sword
release.
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[sword-devel] xml2gbs command line parameters

The usage help for xml2gbs says nothing about paths.

This requires fixing.

xml2gbs [-l] [-i] [-fT|-fO|-fE]  [modname]

Are we to assume that  includes the input/path ?
Are we to assume that [modname]  includes the output/path ?


Best regards,

David

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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

I think all of us need to become more proactive in acting as ambassadors for 
recruiting front-end localisation volunteers.

Each of us must have a growing list of international contacts, so it's 
something we should remember to ask them where appropriate and as such 
opportunities arise in our other communcations.

It won't happen unless we put in some concerted efforts through our personal 
networking.

Best regards,

David

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, 29 May 2020 16:54, Michael H  wrote:

> AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.
>
> https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>>> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed 
>>> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these 
>>> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>>
>> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation by 
>> some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm aware, 
>> not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the existing 
>> translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code changes; every 
>> time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one translates, the 
>> translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce would-be translators 
>> to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos' Help selections is an 
>> explicit invitation for such translators.
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] Maximum line length 8192 in RawGenBook modules‽‽‽

The help for Sword utility xml2gbs reads as follows:

xml2gbs 1.0 OSIS/ThML/TEI General Book module creation tool for the SWORD 
Project
  usage:
   xml2gbs [-l] [-i] [-fT|-fO|-fE]  [modname]
  -l uses long div names in ThML files
  -i exports to IMP format instead of creating a module
  -fO, -fT, and -fE will set the importer to expect OSIS, ThML, or TEI format 
respectively
(otherwise it attempts to autodetect)

This is the tool used to build a Generic Book module such as Westminster.

There's nothing in the syntax help about the apparent 8192 character line width 
limitation for the XML file,
nor about how such very long lines are split during module build in ways that 
can even break some XML elements,
let alone insert a space in a word of text that would cause it to fail spell 
check.

There's nothing in our wiki to suggest that module developers must ensure that 
XML lines are kept narrower than 8192 characters.

My guess is that it's due to an incorrect variable type having been defined, 
but I'm not a coder.

8192 = 0x2000

Is it just a bug in the utility or does it reflect anything in the API ?

Best regards,

David

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 21:27, David Haslam  wrote:

> To developers of the SWORD API and the utilities for building modules...
>
> I have just examined the raw GenBook module Westminster.
>
> SourceType=OSIS
>
> I found that 6 of the 5771 reference elements are "broken" by having a line 
> break occurring badly part way through the XML item.
>
> Upon closer inspection, these line breaks occurred at column 8192 when the 
> .bdt file was open in a text editor.
>
> This indicates that there is a problem if a line of text in an OSIS XML file 
> exceeds 8192 characters in length!
>
> There are 933 lines of text in the .bdt file, of which 24 are length 8192. 
> There are no lines longer than this.
> It's merely fortuitous that I happened to find 6 of these 24 lines while I 
> was researching reference elements.
>
> What is the root cause of this issue?
> How can this issue be fixed?
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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Re: [sword-devel] The Digital Bible Library® ??? What do you think?

2020-06-01 Thread Matěj Cepl


On Sun, 24 May 2020 13:11:52 -1000 Michael Johnson wrote:
I contribute some Bible translations to the DBL. If there are 
any in there that were submitted by "eBible.org" with 
problems, please let me know, specifically, what the problems 
are to correct them.


See https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society/CzeBKR aside from 
OSIS XML source code, there are also generated USFM texts 
generated by the included Python script. Any errors in those 
texts could be reported via 
https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society/CzeBKR/issues and 
I will work on merging any corrections to the WikiSource.


Blessings,

Matěj

--
https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz
GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
 
Therefore, faithful Christian, seek truth, hear truth, learn

truth, love truth, speak truth, hold truth, defend truth until
death: because truth will free you from sin, from devil, from the
death of soul and finally from the death eternal, which is a
separation from God's mercy.
 -- Master John Hus, Explanation of Credo, 1412


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Re: [sword-devel] The Digital Bible Library® ??? What do you think?

2020-06-01 Thread Matěj Cepl


On Sun, 24 May 2020 13:54:20 -0700 Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I think Matěj is suggesting 
that the publisher of the CzeB21 is telling us that our next 
module update of the CzeB21 should come from their text they 
have uploaded to the DBL.


My real question was what do you know about this initiative, and 
whether we are not getting near the situation, where maintainers 
of Sword biblical modules should transfer their effort to DBL. 
Are there any plans to join effort under the DBL umbrella?


Not that I would be any eager to switch there, because just 
after we finally introduced true infrastructure for the modules 
maintenance on gitlab.com, I don’t see anything on the DBL site 
which would help me to maintain their modules.


And Matěj is saying that he thinks their text in the DBL is 
much worse than than what we are current using:


I am saying it about our module CzeBKR which is fixed comparing 
to what DBL (and eSword.org) have. I haven’t said anything about 
CzeB21, where the sources are from the publisher, and yes, we 
have some fixes on the top of that, but nothing significant 
(certainly, nothing of the magnitude of the incorrect version of 
New Testament as it was the case with CzeBKR).


Blessings,

Matěj

--
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GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
 
Love doesn't just sit there, like a stone; it has to be made,

like bread, remade all the time, made new.
  -- Ursula K. LeGuin


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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

No, The DBG wanted to discourage sharing of license keys by creating
unique keys per user and embedding some part of the user's name in the
key to let them know their identity will be known if they share.  It is
not enforced to any particular OS login or anything.

Some of this delay is my fault.  The "unique per user" key recognition
was added to SWORD about 8 months or so and we haven't released a new
official stable branch yet.  trunk is pretty stable and I use it for
Bishop releases, but other frontends have policies to only use official
stable branch releases.  I must be remembering wrong, but I thought I
heard Bibletime reported it was working ok in their latest release so I
thought they were using trunk.

I am not sure what Xiphos is using for their new release.

Troy



On 6/1/20 1:53 PM, Michael H wrote:
> I tried the license in Bibletime 3.0, and it fails to authorize.  
>
> I've tried to authorize the NA28 on Alkitab Bible Study 4.0 (Build
> 20200510) and it fails to authorize. 
>
> I haven't figured out how to install the latest Xiphos yet (on an
> Ubuntu 18.04 system running Cinnamon desktop... still waiting
> the 20.04 to drop.) The version I have it seemed to authorize (it
> never said 'successful' or 'failed' that I saw, just removed the
> authorization box after a long time.) But then shows no verse text. 
>  
> On my Linux Desktop and my Mac Desktop, I don't put my full
> credentials into the login user profile (usually just my last
> initial or less than the complete name.) Could this be causing a
> registration error?  I've never seen any user setup on Bibletime or
> any Sword program, but I did note that the license is obviously trying
> to look like it's based on my name. I didn't see any warning about
> what it would validate against, but then it's been 30 plus years since
> my German was tested beyond yes or no. 
>
> In Bishop, it works and I don't see any issues. 
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:27 PM Troy A. Griffitts  > wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.
>
> 
> http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB
>
> Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.
>
> It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from
> Münster, as well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to
> adjust the data by century. Hover over a cell and you'll get
> details with direct links into the NTVMR at for the witness and
> taken directly to the chapter.
>
> I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration,
> but Bishop's code is really simple here and would act as a good
> example:
>
> See: the method in verseStudy:
> variantGraph
> witnessStudy
> alignmentTable
> dECMApp
>
> Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop.
> witnessStudy sounds like the one you're after.
>
> Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working
> well and I heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of
> Xiphos which should work too.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
> On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  > wrote:
>
> Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had
> features similar to Bishop where from an open verse at least
> some manuscript images were available for view directly to
> that verse. This made it popular with Biblical Criticism folks. 
>
> In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
> manuscripts, developing a 'critical text') the Question was
> posed 'what to use besides Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28
> is available for licensing to open on Crosswire apps, and I
> mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to the new testament
> manuscript room. 
>
> 1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent,
> Alkitab, Bibletime) that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28? 
>
> 2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in
> Bishop to any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan
> mailto:i...@beforgiven.info>> wrote:
>
> Y'all:
>
> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and
> 7 for a long
> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it
> in the conf
> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>
> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key,
> then crashes
> on OK.
> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
>

Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

2020-06-01 Thread Michael H

I tried the license in Bibletime 3.0, and it fails to authorize.

I've tried to authorize the NA28 on Alkitab Bible Study 4.0 (Build
20200510) and it fails to authorize.

I haven't figured out how to install the latest Xiphos yet (on an
Ubuntu 18.04 system running Cinnamon desktop... still waiting the 20.04 to
drop.) The version I have it seemed to authorize (it never said
'successful' or 'failed' that I saw, just removed the authorization box
after a long time.) But then shows no verse text.

On my Linux Desktop and my Mac Desktop, I don't put my full credentials
into the login user profile (usually just my last initial or less than the
complete name.) Could this be causing a registration error?  I've never
seen any user setup on Bibletime or any Sword program, but I did note that
the license is obviously trying to look like it's based on my name. I
didn't see any warning about what it would validate against, but then it's
been 30 plus years since my German was tested beyond yes or no.

In Bishop, it works and I don't see any issues.


On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:27 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.
>
>
> http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB
>
> Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.
>
> It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from Münster,
> as well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to adjust the data by
> century. Hover over a cell and you'll get details with direct links into
> the NTVMR at for the witness and taken directly to the chapter.
>
> I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration, but
> Bishop's code is really simple here and would act as a good example:
>
> See: the method in verseStudy:
> variantGraph
> witnessStudy
> alignmentTable
> dECMApp
>
> Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop. witnessStudy
> sounds like the one you're after.
>
> Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working well and I
> heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of Xiphos which should
> work too.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
> On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features
>> similar to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images
>> were available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
>> Biblical Criticism folks.
>>
>> In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
>> manuscripts, developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to
>> use besides Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to
>> open on Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to
>> the new testament manuscript room.
>>
>> 1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab,
>> Bibletime) that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?
>>
>> 2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop to
>> any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>>
>>> Y'all:
>>>
>>> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a long
>>> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the conf
>>> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>>>
>>> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
>>> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then crashes
>>> on OK.
>>> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>>>
>>> Any ideas anyone?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

2020-06-01 Thread John Dudeck



This sounds like a problem with (at least the Windows version of) the osis2mod compiler that I complained about years ago, where 
it does not link all verses in a verse range to the commentary article. For some reason I can't find those messages in my archives. 
I'm thinking that Build 3431 (64-bit), which is the latest I have, is the culprit, and I am still using 2893 (32-bit) because of that, but I 
may be confused.


John Dudeck







See attached screenshots of Andbible.

The commentary is displayed below.

The OSIS starts like this :



"http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace"

      xmlns:xsi=
"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"

      xsi:schemaLocation=

"http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd">

    

        
            
                Chaque jour les Écritures

                fr
                ………

            
        
        

            Genèse 1. 1 à 19
            La création de l'univers

            Avant que rien n'existe………
            Ce récit, à la fois majestueux et simple………

        
        

            Genèse 1. 20 à 31
            Dieu crée l'homme à son image

            Une pendule témoigne de l'habileté de l'horloger qui l'a construite. Ainsi « les cieux racontent la gloire de Dieu, et 
l'étendue annonce l'ouvrage de ses mains » (Psaume 19. 1)………
            Quel contraste maintenant avec le verset 2 !………

        




Le 01/06/2020 à 16:11, Fr Cyrille a écrit :








Le 01/06/2020 à 15:14, yvand a écrit :

Le 01/06/2020 à 13:20, Fr Cyrille a écrit :

Le 01/06/2020 à 11:16, yvand a écrit :

If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the
module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like
Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will
duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the
same text…

You have not to duplicate the text, Only to change the ref, ex
Ps.1.1-Ps.1.6 and the text for the Psalm 1 will be shown for all the
verses of the Psalm.


It is not the case. I tested FreCJE in Xiphos, BibleTime and Andbible again with default settings. None of these 
frontends show the commentary if you are at Genesis 1 verse 2. Although the first OSIS reference of the first 
commentary is Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19

Very strange, I don't have the same behavior. I use a personal commentary (copyrighted), I converted it in USFM and if I 
have a comentary for multiple verse I use : \v 1-6 by instance, then with u2o.py it's well converted and displayed as well in 
xiphos.




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John Dudeck

Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France

john.dud...@sim.org    j...@editionscle.com

--

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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

Hi Michael,

Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.

http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB

Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.

It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from Münster, as 
well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to adjust the data by century. 
Hover over a cell and you'll get details with direct links into the NTVMR at 
for the witness and taken directly to the chapter.

I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration, but Bishop's 
code is really simple here and would act as a good example:

See: the method in verseStudy:
variantGraph
witnessStudy
alignmentTable
dECMApp

Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop. witnessStudy 
sounds like the one you're after.

Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working well and I 
heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of Xiphos which should work 
too.

Hope this helps,

Troy




On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  wrote:
>Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features
>similar
>to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images were
>available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
>Biblical Criticism folks.
>
>In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
>manuscripts,
>developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to use
>besides
>Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to open on
>Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to the
>new
>testament manuscript room.
>
>1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab,
>Bibletime)
>that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?
>
>2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop
>to
>any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?
>
>On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan 
>wrote:
>
>> Y'all:
>>
>> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a
>long
>> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the
>conf
>> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>>
>> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
>> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then
>crashes
>> on OK.
>> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>>
>> Any ideas anyone?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Tom Sullivan
>> i...@beforgiven.info
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>
>>
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>

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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

2020-06-01 Thread Michael H

Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features similar
to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images were
available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
Biblical Criticism folks.

In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the manuscripts,
developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to use besides
Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to open on
Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to the new
testament manuscript room.

1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab, Bibletime)
that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?

2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop to
any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Y'all:
>
> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a long
> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the conf
> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>
> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then crashes
> on OK.
> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
>
>
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> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

2020-06-01 Thread Michael H

It seems Bibletime also uses transifex.

It sure seems like there's a lot of duplication here.. is it possible to
somehow produce a Crosswire UI translation table instead of 8-10 app
translation tables?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:34 PM David Haslam  wrote:

> The *transifex* figure of *0%* strings translated for *English (United
> Kingdom)* seems rather bizarre to me.
>
> Even if *And Bible* were deemed to have been written in *English (United
> States)*, that would still make little sense.
>
> And we know that our friend *Martin Denham* is British.
>
> Even so, it's also apparent that many major languages have less than *70%*
> as a score, with even *Spanish* having now dropped just below this
> threshold.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, 29 May 2020 16:54, Michael H  wrote:
>
> AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.
>
> https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed
>> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these
>> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>>
>>
>> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation by
>> some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm aware,
>> not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the existing
>> translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code changes;
>> every time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one
>> translates, the translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce
>> would-be translators to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos'
>> Help selections is an explicit invitation for such translators.
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)


Thank you for the clarification and help.



Don't duplicate:
As Fr. Cyrille has pointed out, SWORD supports entry linking. So, you 
don't need to duplicate anything, just supply all the verses to which 
an entry should be associated.
That's exactly that I expected (avoid duplication and use entry linking 
internally). But in any frontends I checked, the module FreCJE is not 
displayed correctly. Nothing is displayed at Gen.1.2 for instance 
(although a commentary is declared for "Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19" in OSIS).




Entries won't repeat in display is done right:
As Greg points out, SWORD has an iteration feature called 
skipConsecutiveLinks which is turned on by default for commentaries. 
This allows iterating over, say, a chapter, and only getting one 
occurrence for each entry which is linked to consecutive verses.


Having said all of this, depending on the utility used to import your 
module, some are more lenient than others. Some likely just send the 
osisID to SWORD's verse parser which will parse a range, so you might 
get lucky. But if you want things to always work, then you should 
encode your module correctly.


OSIS also includes an osisRef type attribute for commentaries called 
annotateRef which indicates that the element contains commentary text 
for a verse range. I wouldn't be surprised if DM already supports this 
in osis2mod, but I wouldn't count on it without checking.


My module uses OSIS commentary syntax. I am using of course annotateRef:

annotateRef="Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19">Hello world!


Currently all tested frontends show nothing at Gen.1.2. I guess this is 
either a bug in mod2osis (import tool) or in all frontends (is it 
possible?). You can check my module, it is available in raw repository, 
it is called FreCJE.


*Can somebody confirm osis2mod supports correctly entry linking? Can I 
check with mod2imp or mod2osis is there are entry linking stored in the 
module?

*



Le 01/06/2020 à 20:49, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
As David has said, please be careful about your syntax between osisID 
and osisRef. osisID="Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" is invalid. This would be a 
valid osisRef.


osisIDs are how you assign text to a verse entry in SWORD. osisIDs do 
not take ranges; they take lists.


Don't duplicate:
As Fr. Cyrille has pointed out, SWORD supports entry linking. So, you 
don't need to duplicate anything, just supply all the verses to which 
an entry should be associated.


Entries won't repeat in display is done right:
As Greg points out, SWORD has an iteration feature called 
skipConsecutiveLinks which is turned on by default for commentaries. 
This allows iterating over, say, a chapter, and only getting one 
occurrence for each entry which is linked to consecutive verses.


Having said all of this, depending on the utility used to import your 
module, some are more lenient than others. Some likely just send the 
osisID to SWORD's verse parser which will parse a range, so you might 
get lucky. But if you want things to always work, then you should 
encode your module correctly.


OSIS also includes an osisRef type attribute for commentaries called 
annotateRef which indicates that the element contains commentary text 
for a verse range. I wouldn't be surprised if DM already supports this 
in osis2mod, but I wouldn't count on it without checking.


Hope this clears some things up,

Troy

On June 1, 2020 6:29:07 AM MST, yvand  wrote:




On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:19 AM Karl Kleinpaste
mailto:k...@kleinpaste.org>> wrote:

On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:

I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past.
But maybe I am wrong, I did not find the conversation. 


Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole
commentary chapters are displayed along with whole Bible
chapters, and then the verse is tracked visually in the
commentary pane, but in a different manner from the Bible
pane (i.e. current verse always aligned to top, plus a
preceding horizontal rule).  It's a UI issue IMO, not an
engine issue. If you explicitly list the verse range covered
in your markup, then I imagine you might get the effect you
want in other UIs.

Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been
default, and I wonder if I should make it so in the future.


I think so. Since Bibles are by chapter, it makes sense to have
commentaries as well, but :


A commentary view in frontends, as Karl mentioned, might be a good
thing.

I still don't understand why the OSIS reference "Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19"
is interpreted as "Gen.1.1" only! Again, why this behavior? It
seems not logical for me. Are commentaries in OSIS only verse by
verse?

And issues are still there:

- A commentary like "Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" (in FreCJE = Day by Day, by
J. Koechlin in French) will only be shown at chapter 7, isn't it?
I should also use a "hack" and put

Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

As David has said, please be careful about your syntax between osisID and 
osisRef. osisID="Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" is invalid. This would be a valid osisRef.

osisIDs are how you assign text to a verse entry in SWORD. osisIDs do not take 
ranges; they take lists.

Don't duplicate:
As Fr. Cyrille has pointed out, SWORD supports entry linking. So, you don't 
need to duplicate anything, just supply all the verses to which an entry should 
be associated.

Entries won't repeat in display is done right:
As Greg points out, SWORD has an iteration feature called skipConsecutiveLinks 
which is turned on by default for commentaries. This allows iterating over, 
say, a chapter, and only getting one occurrence for each entry which is linked 
to consecutive verses.

Having said all of this, depending on the utility used to import your module, 
some are more lenient than others. Some likely just send the osisID to SWORD's 
verse parser which will parse a range, so you might get lucky. But if you want 
things to always work, then you should encode your module correctly.

OSIS also includes an osisRef type attribute for commentaries called 
annotateRef which indicates that the element contains commentary text for a 
verse range. I wouldn't be surprised if DM already supports this in osis2mod, 
but I wouldn't count on it without checking.

Hope this clears some things up,

Troy

On June 1, 2020 6:29:07 AM MST, yvand  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:19 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:
>>> I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past. But
>>> maybe I am wrong, I did not find the conversation. 
>>
>> Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole
>> commentary chapters are displayed along with whole Bible
>chapters,
>> and then the verse is tracked visually in the commentary pane,
>but
>> in a different manner from the Bible pane (i.e. current verse
>> always aligned to top, plus a preceding horizontal rule).  It's a
>> UI issue IMO, not an engine issue.  If you explicitly list the
>> verse range covered in your markup, then I imagine you might get
>> the effect you want in other UIs.
>>
>> Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been
>> default, and I wonder if I should make it so in the future.
>>
>>
>> I think so. Since Bibles are by chapter, it makes sense to have 
>> commentaries as well, but :
>
>A commentary view in frontends, as Karl mentioned, might be a good
>thing.
>
>I still don't understand why the OSIS reference "Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19" is 
>interpreted as "Gen.1.1" only! Again, why this behavior? It seems not 
>logical for me. Are commentaries in OSIS only verse by verse?
>
>And issues are still there:
>
>- A commentary like "Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" (in FreCJE = Day by Day, by J. 
>Koechlin in French) will only be shown at chapter 7, isn't it? I should
>
>also use a "hack" and put an OSIS reference like ""Gen.7.17 Gen.8.1" 
>(not use continuous reference notation).
>
>- It would be impossible to highlight properly the commentary as you 
>mentioned (if I understood correctly).
>
>This is again my 2 cents.

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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

Is anyone in this thread confusing osisID syntax and osisRef syntax ?

Just a thought

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 15:11, Fr Cyrille  wrote:

> Le 01/06/2020 à 15:14, yvand a écrit :
>
>> Le 01/06/2020 à 13:20, Fr Cyrille a écrit :
>>
>>> Le 01/06/2020 à 11:16, yvand a écrit :
>>>
 If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the
 module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like
 Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will
 duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the
 same text…
>>>
>>> You have not to duplicate the text, Only to change the ref, ex
>>> Ps.1.1-Ps.1.6 and the text for the Psalm 1 will be shown for all the
>>> verses of the Psalm.
>>
>> It is not the case. I tested FreCJE in Xiphos, BibleTime and Andbible again 
>> with default settings. None of these frontends show the commentary if you 
>> are at Genesis 1 verse 2. Although the first OSIS reference of the first 
>> commentary is Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19
>
> Very strange, I don't have the same behavior. I use a personal commentary 
> (copyrighted), I converted it in USFM and if I have a comentary for multiple 
> verse I use : \v 1-6 by instance, then with u2o.py it's well converted and 
> displayed as well in xiphos.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 8:29 AM yvand  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:19 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:
>>
>> I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past. But maybe I
>> am wrong, I did not find the conversation.
>>
>>
>> Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole commentary
>> chapters are displayed along with whole Bible chapters, and then the verse
>> is tracked visually in the commentary pane, but in a different manner from
>> the Bible pane (i.e. current verse always aligned to top, plus a preceding
>> horizontal rule).  It's a UI issue IMO, not an engine issue.  If you
>> explicitly list the verse range covered in your markup, then I imagine you
>> might get the effect you want in other UIs.
>>
>> Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been default, and
>> I wonder if I should make it so in the future.
>>
>
> I think so. Since Bibles are by chapter, it makes sense to have
> commentaries as well, but :
>
> A commentary view in frontends, as Karl mentioned, might be a good thing.
>
> I still don't understand why the OSIS reference "Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19" is
> interpreted as "Gen.1.1" only! Again, why this behavior? It seems not
> logical for me. Are commentaries in OSIS only verse by verse?
>
I think your problem comes from a two-fold issue:

1) Commentaries are typically done verse-by-verse in front end displays.
This is a UX decision and can be argued both for and against.
2) OSIS documents - particularly Bibles - can have a single entry that
represents multiple verses. This is common in both commentaries and
paraphrase translations. But most front ends likely use the same code to
handle both, because Sword handles them exactly the same. There, because
Bibles would look weird if the same text was repeated in 2 or more
consecutive verses, any range values are skipped for subsequent values not
at their start.

So what you are seeing is a bug in the front ends. If they are going to
display verse-by-verse commentary then they would need to NOT employ the
skip-linked-text code that their Bible display uses.

Your module is likely encoded correctly. The Sword engine seems to be
operating correctly. You will need to file a bug with the various front
ends that are not displaying the module well to either change their UX like
Karl says he did for Xiphos or to fix the linked verse display bug that
they seem to be suffering from.

--Greg

> And issues are still there:
>
> - A commentary like "Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" (in FreCJE = Day by Day, by J.
> Koechlin in French) will only be shown at chapter 7, isn't it? I should
> also use a "hack" and put an OSIS reference like ""Gen.7.17 Gen.8.1" (not
> use continuous reference notation).
>
> - It would be impossible to highlight properly the commentary as you
> mentioned (if I understood correctly).
>
> This is again my 2 cents.
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

2020-06-01 Thread Fr Cyrille



Le 01/06/2020 à 15:14, yvand a écrit :
> Le 01/06/2020 à 13:20, Fr Cyrille a écrit :
>> Le 01/06/2020 à 11:16, yvand a écrit :
>>> If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the
>>> module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like
>>> Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will
>>> duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the
>>> same text…
>> You have not to duplicate the text, Only to change the ref, ex
>> Ps.1.1-Ps.1.6 and the text for the Psalm 1 will be shown for all the
>> verses of the Psalm.
>
> It is not the case. I tested FreCJE in Xiphos, BibleTime and Andbible
> again with default settings. None of these frontends show the
> commentary if you are at Genesis 1 verse 2. Although the first OSIS
> reference of the first commentary is *Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19*
>
Very strange, I don't have the same behavior. I use a personal
commentary (copyrighted), I converted it in USFM and if I have a
comentary for multiple verse I use : \v 1-6 by instance, then with
u2o.py it's well converted and displayed as well in xiphos.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)





On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:19 AM Karl Kleinpaste > wrote:


On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:

I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past. But
maybe I am wrong, I did not find the conversation. 


Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole
commentary chapters are displayed along with whole Bible chapters,
and then the verse is tracked visually in the commentary pane, but
in a different manner from the Bible pane (i.e. current verse
always aligned to top, plus a preceding horizontal rule).  It's a
UI issue IMO, not an engine issue.  If you explicitly list the
verse range covered in your markup, then I imagine you might get
the effect you want in other UIs.

Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been
default, and I wonder if I should make it so in the future.


I think so. Since Bibles are by chapter, it makes sense to have 
commentaries as well, but :


A commentary view in frontends, as Karl mentioned, might be a good thing.

I still don't understand why the OSIS reference "Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19" is 
interpreted as "Gen.1.1" only! Again, why this behavior? It seems not 
logical for me. Are commentaries in OSIS only verse by verse?


And issues are still there:

- A commentary like "Gen.7.17-Gen.8.5" (in FreCJE = Day by Day, by J. 
Koechlin in French) will only be shown at chapter 7, isn't it? I should 
also use a "hack" and put an OSIS reference like ""Gen.7.17 Gen.8.1" 
(not use continuous reference notation).


- It would be impossible to highlight properly the commentary as you 
mentioned (if I understood correctly).


This is again my 2 cents.

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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)


Le 01/06/2020 à 13:20, Fr Cyrille a écrit :

Le 01/06/2020 à 11:16, yvand a écrit :

If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the
module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like
Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will
duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the
same text…

You have not to duplicate the text, Only to change the ref, ex
Ps.1.1-Ps.1.6 and the text for the Psalm 1 will be shown for all the
verses of the Psalm.


It is not the case. I tested FreCJE in Xiphos, BibleTime and Andbible 
again with default settings. None of these frontends show the commentary 
if you are at Genesis 1 verse 2. Although the first OSIS reference of 
the first commentary is *Gen.1.1-Gen.1.19*


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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

2020-06-01 Thread Fr Cyrille



Le 01/06/2020 à 11:16, yvand a écrit :
> If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the
> module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like
> Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will
> duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the
> same text…
You have not to duplicate the text, Only to change the ref, ex
Ps.1.1-Ps.1.6 and the text for the Psalm 1 will be shown for all the
verses of the Psalm.
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

On 6/1/20 2:54 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
> I think so. Since Bibles are by chapter, it makes sense to have
> commentaries as well.

I already did it.  See #1036.
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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

2020-06-01 Thread Peter Von Kaehne

I think modules should faithfully reflect the text and not contain any hacks. Bugs in presentation are then firmly owned by the engine or any frontends which may or may not be deficient.

Insofar as most frontends look at Bible texts by chapter (with or without additional easy scrolling) it seems bizarre that commentaries do not show the same - in particular as commentaries will much more likely play around with versification - explain verse 1 and 10 before 2-9 etc - summarise and split stuff etc etc.

So, this is a frontend bug and I as module maintainer would not accept any modules which duplicate content - and I would delete any which have made it past me accidentally.

Peter

Gesendet: Montag, 01. Juni 2020 um 10:16 Uhr
Von: "yvand"
An: sword-devel@crosswire.org
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)

Thanks for the answers.

Some advise to duplicate the commentary for every verse (Ps.23.1, Ps.23.2, Ps.23.3, etc.) and some said it is a frontend issue. I am still a bit lose and disappointed for the end users.

I don't understand why for commentaries, the OSIS reference "Ps.23-1.5" is not the same as "Ps.23.1 Ps.23.2 Ps.23.3 Ps.23.4 Ps.23.5" for instance. In my opinion it should be considered exactly the same. Or else, why not? Moreover, if I declare that this commentary covers "Ps.23.1-5", the engine should show the commentary if I asked for commentary for verse 3 for instance. Why only for the first vese? Or maybe I misunderstood the concept of Crosswire commentary…

If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the same text…

Currently I do not know what is the best, I see all these proposals like rather hacks (in the OSIS source or in frontends).

--yvand

Le 30/05/2020 à 18:18, Karl Kleinpaste a écrit :

On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:

I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past. But maybe I am wrong, I did not find the conversation.

Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole commentary chapters are displayed along with whole Bible chapters, and then the verse is tracked visually in the commentary pane, but in a different manner from the Bible pane (i.e. current verse always aligned to top, plus a preceding horizontal rule). It's a UI issue IMO, not an engine issue. If you explicitly list the verse range covered in your markup, then I imagine you might get the effect you want in other UIs.

Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been default, and I wonder if I should make it so in the future.

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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)


Thanks for the answers.

Some advise to duplicate the commentary for every verse (Ps.23.1, 
Ps.23.2, Ps.23.3, etc.) and some said it is a frontend issue. I am still 
a bit lose and disappointed for the end users.


I don't understand why for commentaries, the OSIS reference "Ps.23-1.5" 
is not the same as "Ps.23.1 Ps.23.2 Ps.23.3 Ps.23.4 Ps.23.5" for 
instance. In my opinion it should be considered exactly the same. Or 
else, why not? Moreover, if I declare that this commentary covers 
"Ps.23.1-5", the engine should show the commentary if I asked for 
commentary for verse 3 for instance. Why only for the first vese? Or 
maybe I misunderstood the concept of Crosswire commentary…


If I change all the OSIS references to match every verses, I hope the 
module size will not grow 20 times. And if I do so, for frontends like 
Xiphos which have a "commentary by chapter" view, the frontend will 
duplicate the commentary or use a hack to avoid duplication of the same 
text…


Currently I do not know what is the best, I see all these proposals like 
rather hacks (in the OSIS source or in frontends).


--yvand

Le 30/05/2020 à 18:18, Karl Kleinpaste a écrit :

On 5/30/20 11:45 AM, yvand wrote:
I think Karl already talked about this feature in the past. But maybe 
I am wrong, I did not find the conversation. 


Xiphos has a feature, "commentary by chapter," so that whole 
commentary chapters are displayed along with whole Bible chapters, and 
then the verse is tracked visually in the commentary pane, but in a 
different manner from the Bible pane (i.e. current verse always 
aligned to top, plus a preceding horizontal rule).  It's a UI issue 
IMO, not an engine issue.  If you explicitly list the verse range 
covered in your markup, then I imagine you might get the effect you 
want in other UIs.


Up to this time, Xiphos' commentary by chapter has not been default, 
and I wonder if I should make it so in the future.


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Re: [sword-devel] Not user-friendly behavior in commentaries (should be continuous)