Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 6:49 PM Michael H wrote: > I owe you lunch Greg. > I sure wouldn't turn down an offer like that! --Greg > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 6:37 PM Philip White > wrote: > >> Ahh, that C API looks like what I would want. >> >> I didn't mean to disparage or be uppity by stating my preference for >> standardization; I greatly appreciate what this project (I use And >> Bible on my phone). This is by far the smaller of my two concerns. I >> may also suffer from not-invented-here syndrome. >> >> I did not know about diatheke before you mentioned it. The tool I >> envision is a less-like, Bible module viewer with stuff like strong's >> numbers and morphology codes, and the ability to view commentaries >> inline. Specifically, the personal commentary, so that I can see my >> own notes along with verses. The only reason for using a terminal as a >> UI is to avoid large libraries like QT4 or GTK (although, after using >> BibleTime for a bit, I've been impressed with the startup time - not >> so much with compile times though). The main thing that got me wanting >> to make this is that any software that allows editing personal >> commentaries has a builtin editor, rather than opening an external >> editor like vim. My thought is to use the EDITOR environment variable. >> It is possible that I could achieve everything I want with shell >> scripts and diatheke; I'll have to think about that more. >> >> Incidentally, I am on linux, but not Ubuntu. NixOS is my preferred distro. >> >> ___ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
I owe you lunch Greg. On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 6:37 PM Philip White wrote: > Ahh, that C API looks like what I would want. > > I didn't mean to disparage or be uppity by stating my preference for > standardization; I greatly appreciate what this project (I use And > Bible on my phone). This is by far the smaller of my two concerns. I > may also suffer from not-invented-here syndrome. > > I did not know about diatheke before you mentioned it. The tool I > envision is a less-like, Bible module viewer with stuff like strong's > numbers and morphology codes, and the ability to view commentaries > inline. Specifically, the personal commentary, so that I can see my > own notes along with verses. The only reason for using a terminal as a > UI is to avoid large libraries like QT4 or GTK (although, after using > BibleTime for a bit, I've been impressed with the startup time - not > so much with compile times though). The main thing that got me wanting > to make this is that any software that allows editing personal > commentaries has a builtin editor, rather than opening an external > editor like vim. My thought is to use the EDITOR environment variable. > It is possible that I could achieve everything I want with shell > scripts and diatheke; I'll have to think about that more. > > Incidentally, I am on linux, but not Ubuntu. NixOS is my preferred distro. > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Ahh, that C API looks like what I would want. I didn't mean to disparage or be uppity by stating my preference for standardization; I greatly appreciate what this project (I use And Bible on my phone). This is by far the smaller of my two concerns. I may also suffer from not-invented-here syndrome. I did not know about diatheke before you mentioned it. The tool I envision is a less-like, Bible module viewer with stuff like strong's numbers and morphology codes, and the ability to view commentaries inline. Specifically, the personal commentary, so that I can see my own notes along with verses. The only reason for using a terminal as a UI is to avoid large libraries like QT4 or GTK (although, after using BibleTime for a bit, I've been impressed with the startup time - not so much with compile times though). The main thing that got me wanting to make this is that any software that allows editing personal commentaries has a builtin editor, rather than opening an external editor like vim. My thought is to use the EDITOR environment variable. It is possible that I could achieve everything I want with shell scripts and diatheke; I'll have to think about that more. Incidentally, I am on linux, but not Ubuntu. NixOS is my preferred distro. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:56 PM Michael H wrote: > Greg, > > Diatheke on Ubuntu 18.04LTS is broken since Ubuntu 18 released. The bugs > were identified and fixed by this team on around march of 2018, but the way > the features freeze on Ubuntu, it remains broken. trying to update only the > sword package without updating the core is locked by dependencies. > They should be able to cherry-pick just the commit that fixed the bug(s) into their package. If that hasn't happened that's entirely a shortcoming of the distro/packagers and not an issue with Sword. (Personally this is one of the strongest reasons I stay far away from Ubuntu for anything that's not a server, and even there I tend to avoid it unless absolutely necessary). Also, Philip says nothing of being on Ubuntu, or even Linux for that matter from what I see. --Greg > > I had to build a virtual session of ubuntu 19.04 to make it work. but in > 19.04 diatheke has no obvious bugs, other than the very last few modules > from Cyrille need a more modern Sword engine, and there for a while all of > ebible claimed it needed newer sword engine. > > Meanwhile, SIL provides Ubuntu packages for Bible translation programs > Paratext, and Fieldworks Translation editor, and maintains a linux (wine) > port of the LOGOS Bible study program for Ubuntu LTS. So, there's more > than just a passing coincidence here. It's very likely that someone in the > business of developing Bible software on Linux will end up on the Ubuntu > LTS software platform. > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:38 PM Greg Hellings > wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:27 PM Philip White >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the responses. I will consider using the Sword library. One >>> reason I am reluctant to do so is my preference for C over C++. >>> >> >> There is a C file in the bindings that allows you to access the library >> through C instead of C++. You can find the header here: >> https://www.crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/flatapi.h >> >> Another is my preference for building software on top of standards >>> instead of ad-hoc knowledge. >>> >> >> I'm not sure I see where your objection to a well received and very open >> scripture software project that is completely FOSS would have objections, >> then. >> >> >>> > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of >>> those questions: >>> > 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows? >>> > 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere. >>> > 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will >>> normalize this all to UTF-8 for you. >>> >>> All three of these points seem less about the library, and more about >>> the final modules themselves. Does the library itself normalize this, >>> or is it normalized when the modules are created? I guess I thought >>> that all modules came from OSIS sources, which I guess is incorrect. >>> >> >> It is not correct. It is the primary way that scripture modules are >> accepted from submissions, but it is not at all the case that all modules >> come from OSIS. It's not even the original source in some cases - lots of >> them come from USFM or USX, then get converted to OSIS before being turned >> into Sword modules. >> >> Is there any reason that diatheke cannot fulfil your needs? >> >> --Greg >> >>> >>> - Philip >>> >>> ___ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >> ___ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Greg, Diatheke on Ubuntu 18.04LTS is broken since Ubuntu 18 released. The bugs were identified and fixed by this team on around march of 2018, but the way the features freeze on Ubuntu, it remains broken. trying to update only the sword package without updating the core is locked by dependencies. I had to build a virtual session of ubuntu 19.04 to make it work. but in 19.04 diatheke has no obvious bugs, other than the very last few modules from Cyrille need a more modern Sword engine, and there for a while all of ebible claimed it needed newer sword engine. Meanwhile, SIL provides Ubuntu packages for Bible translation programs Paratext, and Fieldworks Translation editor, and maintains a linux (wine) port of the LOGOS Bible study program for Ubuntu LTS. So, there's more than just a passing coincidence here. It's very likely that someone in the business of developing Bible software on Linux will end up on the Ubuntu LTS software platform. On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:38 PM Greg Hellings wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:27 PM Philip White > wrote: > >> Thanks for the responses. I will consider using the Sword library. One >> reason I am reluctant to do so is my preference for C over C++. >> > > There is a C file in the bindings that allows you to access the library > through C instead of C++. You can find the header here: > https://www.crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/flatapi.h > > Another is my preference for building software on top of standards >> instead of ad-hoc knowledge. >> > > I'm not sure I see where your objection to a well received and very open > scripture software project that is completely FOSS would have objections, > then. > > >> > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of those >> questions: >> > 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows? >> > 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere. >> > 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will >> normalize this all to UTF-8 for you. >> >> All three of these points seem less about the library, and more about >> the final modules themselves. Does the library itself normalize this, >> or is it normalized when the modules are created? I guess I thought >> that all modules came from OSIS sources, which I guess is incorrect. >> > > It is not correct. It is the primary way that scripture modules are > accepted from submissions, but it is not at all the case that all modules > come from OSIS. It's not even the original source in some cases - lots of > them come from USFM or USX, then get converted to OSIS before being turned > into Sword modules. > > Is there any reason that diatheke cannot fulfil your needs? > > --Greg > >> >> - Philip >> >> ___ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:27 PM Philip White wrote: > Thanks for the responses. I will consider using the Sword library. One > reason I am reluctant to do so is my preference for C over C++. > There is a C file in the bindings that allows you to access the library through C instead of C++. You can find the header here: https://www.crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/flatapi.h Another is my preference for building software on top of standards > instead of ad-hoc knowledge. > I'm not sure I see where your objection to a well received and very open scripture software project that is completely FOSS would have objections, then. > > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of those > questions: > > 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows? > > 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere. > > 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will > normalize this all to UTF-8 for you. > > All three of these points seem less about the library, and more about > the final modules themselves. Does the library itself normalize this, > or is it normalized when the modules are created? I guess I thought > that all modules came from OSIS sources, which I guess is incorrect. > It is not correct. It is the primary way that scripture modules are accepted from submissions, but it is not at all the case that all modules come from OSIS. It's not even the original source in some cases - lots of them come from USFM or USX, then get converted to OSIS before being turned into Sword modules. Is there any reason that diatheke cannot fulfil your needs? --Greg > > - Philip > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Beyond the specific request for OSIS version of KJV w strongs, I use diatheke on the Linux command line, although I had to build a virtual session with Ubuntu19.04 because ubuntu 18.04 was shipped with a sword engine that contains bugs.. If you're seeing the doubled last verse from diatheke, just upgrade your base system. And beyond that, I would recommend reading about the scripture burrito project (https://docs.burrito.bible/en/latest/). It's under current development, and you can probably count on the technology still being viable in 10-20 years, if it makes it past the next couple (but they have enough participation... they will endure.) On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:22 PM Michael H wrote: > There are a lot of places to get scripture in free formats. OSIS > supported by the Sword project is very old, and not many places still > provide it. > > I suggest you start at ebible.org, > https://ebible.org/download.php > > which provides the KJV with strongs in OSIS among other formats. > https://ebible.org/details.php?id=eng-kjv2006=1 > > Note the text there isn't necessarily the same text as what you see in the > Sword KJV module, but the OSIS is similar enough that any differences are > trivial. (periods may have moved before or after some embedded data... that > kind of difference.) > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:08 PM Philip White > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From >> the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the >> modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the >> raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a >> low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I >> will probably not use everything that the library provides. >> >> Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV >> with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules >> format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some >> copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and >> books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the >> distribution of the OSIS files. >> >> In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the >> standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format >> that modules on the website come in. >> >> Thanks, >> Philip >> >> ___ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Thanks for the responses. I will consider using the Sword library. One reason I am reluctant to do so is my preference for C over C++. Another is my preference for building software on top of standards instead of ad-hoc knowledge. > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of those > questions: > 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows? > 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere. > 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will normalize > this all to UTF-8 for you. All three of these points seem less about the library, and more about the final modules themselves. Does the library itself normalize this, or is it normalized when the modules are created? I guess I thought that all modules came from OSIS sources, which I guess is incorrect. - Philip ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
There are a lot of places to get scripture in free formats. OSIS supported by the Sword project is very old, and not many places still provide it. I suggest you start at ebible.org, https://ebible.org/download.php which provides the KJV with strongs in OSIS among other formats. https://ebible.org/details.php?id=eng-kjv2006=1 Note the text there isn't necessarily the same text as what you see in the Sword KJV module, but the OSIS is similar enough that any differences are trivial. (periods may have moved before or after some embedded data... that kind of difference.) On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:08 PM Philip White wrote: > Hi, > > I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From > the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the > modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the > raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a > low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I > will probably not use everything that the library provides. > > Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV > with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules > format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some > copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and > books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the > distribution of the OSIS files. > > In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the > standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format > that modules on the website come in. > > Thanks, > Philip > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:08 PM Philip White wrote: > Hi, > > I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From > the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the > modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the > raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a > low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I > will probably not use everything that the library provides. > Sword is a very low dependency piece of software. The only dependencies I know of are optional: ICU, cURL and CLucene, mostly. It's tough to get much lower dependency than Sword. Also, there is already a command line viewer included with Sword that is very featureful: diatheke. > Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV > with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules > format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some > copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and > books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the > distribution of the OSIS files. > Crosswire maintains the OSIS for the KJV module. However, other sources could come from any number of different locations. You'd have to check every conf module independently to determine if it mentions where the source files are. Some do, some do not. For some the source could come from a different format (e.g. ThML, GBF, plain-text, Sword's proprietary imp format, etc). > In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the > standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format > that modules on the website come in. > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of those questions: 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows? 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere. 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will normalize this all to UTF-8 for you. I would highly encourage you to use the Sword library itself. It's already a very small, very dependency-weak library. You may be surprised at how easily it ports to all manner of destinations. --Greg > > Thanks, > Philip > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
We strongly discourage this. The import and export is not leading to the same result. The export is lossy. PeterSent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects. Original Message Subject: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS filesFrom: Philip White To: sword-devel@crosswire.orgCC: Hi,I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. Fromthe wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with themodules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If theraw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write alow-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since Iwill probably not use everything that the library provides.Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJVwith Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modulesformat acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have somecopyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, andbooks are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing thedistribution of the OSIS files.In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in thestandardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules formatthat modules on the website come in.Thanks,Philip___sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-develInstructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Hi, I'd stick trying to leverage on sword libraries instead of reinventing the wheel. Or do you have any constrains? Have you seen pysword? It seems to be a fairly obvious choice. Kind regards, Kristof On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:09 PM Philip White wrote: > Hi, > > I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From > the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the > modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the > raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a > low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I > will probably not use everything that the library provides. > > Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV > with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules > format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some > copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and > books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the > distribution of the OSIS files. > > In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the > standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format > that modules on the website come in. > > Thanks, > Philip > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
[sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files
Hi, I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I will probably not use everything that the library provides. Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the distribution of the OSIS files. In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format that modules on the website come in. Thanks, Philip ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
