Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[jhphx]

My take on this is that the TomTom FAT32 use is not necessarily 
relevant. It depends. If you build CHM technology into the engine then 
that would probably be relevant, but if you use Windows to display CHM 
then it is probably not relevant. The Sword Project for Windows used CHM 
for its help files. That is exactly what CHM was made for.


CHM is pretty simple. At its heart it uses HTML files and linked images 
and such. The compiler takes a set of HTML files, linked files, and adds 
indexing and search functionality. It is also possible to decompile CHM 
and get the HTML and other files that were compiled into it. Of course 
you want to be sure anything from that if you use it is PD, open source, 
or otherwise legitimate to use. Note that decompiling could possibly be 
considered reverse engineering so you need to consider terms of use and 
the laws of whatever jurisdiction you are in. Those issues though are 
not with Microsoft but with the party that compiled the CHM. In my opinion.


Jerry

On 6/20/2019 3:31 PM, Michael H wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help

CHM is not exactly opensource.  Microsoft successfully sued TomTom for 
using FAT32 formatting in it's GPS systems without paying any 
royalties to Microsoft.  That's the old (Gates, Balmer) Microsoft, but 
still it's a proprietary technology by a company with a history of 
using litigation on technologies just to shut people down.


I don't see Crosswire as being a target by microsoft, but sometimes 
people with intent to harm license technology just to make it 
something to rattle... I'd feel a lot more comfortable using a 
known-opensource technology.


It would make production easy if it was supported.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:41 AM ref...@crosswire.org 
 > wrote:


A while back I wrote about Bibleworks and its legacy. As part of
my further research I found that Bibleworks uses instead of a
GenBook format for user supplied books of that category the CHM
format.

How ubiquitous is CHM on our platforms? If all platforms can use
it , we could probably tap into a huge GenBook like module library
- specifically for textual research - for very little extra effort.

Peter



Petee

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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[Peter von Kaehne]

On Thu, 2019-06-20 at 12:02 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>
> Anyway, sounds reasonable.  Do we have one BibleWorks module in this
> format we could post someplace we can play with and see what we can
> get
> working?

Here is a whole host of them:

http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?page_id=151

They are basically zipped files, containg a conf file which is way more
primitive that ours and a chm file.

Some are text. but some are also huge image bundles from scanned books,
organised with the help of CHM.

Basically it seems to me that Bibleworks was not enforcing a very high
encoding standard and made it easy to create modules with the result
that there was an awful lot out there for it.

Peter


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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[Michael H]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help

CHM is not exactly opensource.  Microsoft successfully sued TomTom for
using FAT32 formatting in it's GPS systems without paying any royalties to
Microsoft.  That's the old (Gates, Balmer) Microsoft, but still it's a
proprietary technology by a company with a history of using litigation on
technologies just to shut people down.

I don't see Crosswire as being a target by microsoft, but sometimes people
with intent to harm license technology just to make it something to
rattle... I'd feel a lot more comfortable using a known-opensource
technology.

It would make production easy if it was supported.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:41 AM ref...@crosswire.org 
wrote:

> A while back I wrote about Bibleworks and its legacy. As part of my
> further research I found that Bibleworks uses instead of a GenBook format
> for user supplied books of that category the CHM format.
>
> How ubiquitous is CHM on our platforms? If all platforms can use it , we
> could probably tap into a huge GenBook like module library - specifically
> for textual research - for very little extra effort.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Petee
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[ref...@gmx.net]

I will post something tonightSent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects. Original Message Subject: Re: [sword-devel] GenbooksFrom: "Troy A. Griffitts" To: sword-devel@crosswire.orgCC: Thanks Dominique,It seems like the format is fairly straightforward.  We could probablyadd a CHMGenBook impl along with our RawGenBook impl and let these beused the same as any other GenBook within SWORD.  Then we need to pick aMarkup configuration for these.  The markup format could currently useThML.  I realize there likely will not be ThML-specific content in thesemodules at first if they are pulled from an install of BibleWorks, butThML would give us filters that expect HTML, at least.Anyway, sounds reasonable.  Do we have one BibleWorks module in thisformat we could post someplace we can play with and see what we can getworking?TroyOn 6/20/19 11:45 AM, Dominique Corbex wrote:> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:40:31 +0100> "ref...@crosswire.org"  wrote:>>> CHM format> Unofficial MS Help specification:> https://www.nongnu.org/chmspec/latest/>> chmlib is a small library designed for accessing Microsoft Html Help files (.chm)> https://github.com/jedwing/CHMLib>>___sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-develInstructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page___
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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[Troy A. Griffitts]

Thanks Dominique,

It seems like the format is fairly straightforward.  We could probably
add a CHMGenBook impl along with our RawGenBook impl and let these be
used the same as any other GenBook within SWORD.  Then we need to pick a
Markup configuration for these.  The markup format could currently use
ThML.  I realize there likely will not be ThML-specific content in these
modules at first if they are pulled from an install of BibleWorks, but
ThML would give us filters that expect HTML, at least.

Anyway, sounds reasonable.  Do we have one BibleWorks module in this
format we could post someplace we can play with and see what we can get
working?

Troy


On 6/20/19 11:45 AM, Dominique Corbex wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:40:31 +0100
> "ref...@crosswire.org"  wrote:
>
>> CHM format
> Unofficial MS Help specification:
> https://www.nongnu.org/chmspec/latest/
>
> chmlib is a small library designed for accessing Microsoft Html Help files 
> (.chm)
> https://github.com/jedwing/CHMLib
>
>

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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[Dominique Corbex]

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:40:31 +0100
"ref...@crosswire.org"  wrote:

> CHM format

Unofficial MS Help specification:
https://www.nongnu.org/chmspec/latest/

chmlib is a small library designed for accessing Microsoft Html Help files 
(.chm)
https://github.com/jedwing/CHMLib


-- 
domcox 

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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[ref...@gmx.net]

Open-source?Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects. Original Message Subject: Re: [sword-devel] GenbooksFrom: David Haslam To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum CC:For iOS, the CHM Reader app called CHM Plus Pro is quite useful. DavidSent from ProtonMail Mobile On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 17:40, ref...@crosswire.org  wrote:  A while back I wrote about Bibleworks and its legacy. As part of my further research I found that Bibleworks uses instead of a GenBook format for user supplied books of that category the CHM format.How ubiquitous is CHM on our platforms? If all platforms can use it , we could probably tap into a huge GenBook like module library - specifically for textual research - for very little extra effort.PeterPeteeSent from my Huawei Mobile___sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-develInstructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page___
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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[David Haslam]

For iOS, the CHM Reader app called CHM Plus Pro is quite useful.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 17:40, ref...@crosswire.org  
wrote:

> A while back I wrote about Bibleworks and its legacy. As part of my further 
> research I found that Bibleworks uses instead of a GenBook format for user 
> supplied books of that category the CHM format.
>
> How ubiquitous is CHM on our platforms? If all platforms can use it , we 
> could probably tap into a huge GenBook like module library - specifically for 
> textual research - for very little extra effort.
>
> Peter
>
> Petee
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
> ___
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: [sword-devel] genbooks and commentaries (was: proposed patch: adding n=X marker content to footnotes and xrefs)

[Daniel Owens]

Greg is right and Troy is right. :) The need to support specified 
footnote markers in Bibles is less than for genbooks and commentaries. 
Implicitly I meant to refer to the latter.


Again, this gets back what philosophy of module creation to use. It is 
fine to separate form and structure as long as a module creator (perhaps 
acting on behalf of a publisher) has SOME input into how a module is 
displayed.


Daniel

On 02/11/2012 10:27 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

OK, we seem to be talking past each other. You are using Lockman and
the NASB as your example because of its prevalence all over the web.
I'm specifically not talking about Bibles. As I stated in my previous
email, most of those have footnotes which start over on every page,
even in print. If you get a basic NASB or NIV or other modern
translation with just translator's footnotes, all the versions from
every publisher I've ever used have footnotes, labeled with letters,
that begin anew on every page and ignore verse, chapter and even book
boundaries.

I'm talking about general books and commentaries and to that point...

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
scr...@crosswire.org  wrote:

And I still disagree with you that module author wish to retain their own
style (or should want to retain their own style).  I hear from module
publisher that they simply want their content presented professionally and
represents their intention for the content.  None have ever tried to dictate
to me specific visual attributes they need attached to content.  Think of
all the other attributes a print publisher attaches to content: 2 column,
center-row footnotes, page content start and end summary lines at the top.
  We write software where these things don't make sense.  I would tend to
place footnote labels in this bucket.  I understand why others disagree with
me.  I want to give us both the ability to display things how we think best.

I have about 950 modules (none Bibles) that disagree with your claim.
They're from all manner of publishers, but they all come through
Wycliffe. True, not all of them will be available for public
consumption due to copyright, but those to which Wycliffe is the
publishing holder are still potentially going to be released for
consumption.

When we were evaluating software, and I was getting my first real look
at SWORD development we lined up BibleTime and GnomeSword against one
another to compare their features - since we were only interested in
Linux and this was back in 2005. Key problems they had me tackle when
I first got there were:
1) Styling was not being preserved, even though a CSS file was
included in the ThML header and that same file styled an HTML file
properly - we handled this by using an XSL stylesheet to insert
style=blah tags on every ThML element. Styling was extremely
important to them - they nearly abandoned SWORD to develop their own
library because they couldn't get SWORD to preserve their styling
until they moved to inline inclusion of a style tag. This styling is
not preserving print styles, but rather styles that are able to be
applied to the content in another display application (Logos/Libronix)
- and it is very necessary to proper display of the contents.

Some of it is as innocuous as font sizes and weights, others were
standardizations of titles (turquoise background, centered and italics
on by-lines and the like, borders). Still more of it was very
important for display - selection of different fonts for Greek vs
Hebrew vs Aramaic displays. OSIS provided no way to specify these
things and SWORD refused to support an external stylesheet. So we were
forced to use an HTML-based application that had a solid rendering
engine with good language support and poorly designed ThML modules
with inline style content. This was not a small issue and, at the
time, Gnomesword/Xiphos was the only option that had all of this
support and possibly BibleTime.

2) Footnote markers were not being preserved in BibleTime, no matter
the content type. This was a deal-breaker for them and they insisted
on using Gnomesword/Xiphos unless they create a custom patch that
allows BibleTime to honor the n=X setting for footnotes.

I've documented this before, but you continue to insist that no
publishers anywhere care about the display of their modules so long as
the content looks right. But I'm telling you - this is not an
academic, What if... or an I prefer... This is a real module
creator and SWORD software user who has demanded these features, and
is limiting their use to only Xiphos because it remains the only
application on Linux which supports both of these killer features
that they require. So you waving the Lockman example - which has
already been conceded on the basis of even print Bibles going by the
same motif - is a moot point. At the very least honoring the n=X (and
it might be in the on-hover box that it pops up, I dunno, not
necessarily on the inline marker) by default and allowing a user the
ability to 

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore! -- UPDATE

[Christian Renz]

Hi Dan,

sorry for the late reply!


I would like the text as you marked it up too.  That way I can make 
corrections as I use these new modules.

Great idea! I used XML files from ccel.org; the exact URL is in the
.conf-file. I cc'ed you on an e-mail to CCEL; I was thinking about
submitting corrections as well and asked them about the best
procedure.

Greetings,
  Christian

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/

The worst attitude of all would be the professional attitude which regards
children in the lump as a sort of raw material which we have to handle.
   -- C.S. Lewis, On Three Ways of Writing for Children

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore! -- UPDATE

[Christian Renz]

Thanks for the quick feedback, everyone. I'm not too familiar with
module procedures here, so please bear with me while I learn :).

I made some corrections to the config files:
- Added the copyright tags
- Changed language tags to en rather than en-us (Note: en_us is
 *not* a valid language tag according to RFC 1766).

Also, the modules are now on the Sword Beta server
(ftp.sword.cx:/pub/sword/betaraw/), and the zip file can be found at
http://www.crosswire.org/~crenz/new-genbooks1.zip . (The old URL was
missing one directory, so the file could not be downloaded. Sorry!)

Regarding Augustine's Confessions -- I will compare the German text
and the English translation more thoroughly. I'm not sure whether the
chapter divisions are different or whether they left out something in
the middle, because the Book 1/Chapter 18 corresponds to Book
1/Chapter 20 in the German version (both are the last chapters in the
first book).

Lastly, I have two questions about module-making policy:

1. Did I understand correctly that we are usually not fixing spelling
  mistakes in module texts, but rather asking the source to fix them,
  then convert again? I let spelling mistakes alone, but fixed some
  section headings that were empty and also nested wrongly. Is that
  okay?

2. The modules contain several tags that BibleCS doesn't understand,
  but BibleTime does, namely: h1, ..., h6, ul, li, p align=center,
  font size=+1 (They are valid ThML also, I think). Should I change
  them to suit the lowest-common denominator (e.g. change h1 to
  pb.../p/b)?

Have a blessed Sunday, everyone!

Greetings,
  Christian

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/

Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too
easily pleased.  -- C.S. Lewis

RE: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore! -- UPDATE

[Dan Bertles]

Christian,

I would like the text as you marked it up too.  That way I can make 
corrections as I use these new modules.  I have been working on War on the 
Saints by Jesse Penn Lewis, but haven't had a chance to finish the mark-up 
yet.  I would also love to release The Syrian Christ when I get that 
done, but it probably won't be copywrite free for some time since it was 
written in 1916.  I have been scanning pages, but again haven't had time to 
finish.

Dan

-Original Message-
From:   Christian Renz [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:16 AM
To: sword-devel
Subject:Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore! -- UPDATE

Thanks for the quick feedback, everyone. I'm not too familiar with
module procedures here, so please bear with me while I learn :).

I made some corrections to the config files:
- Added the copyright tags
- Changed language tags to en rather than en-us (Note: en_us is
  *not* a valid language tag according to RFC 1766).

Also, the modules are now on the Sword Beta server
(ftp.sword.cx:/pub/sword/betaraw/), and the zip file can be found at
http://www.crosswire.org/~crenz/new-genbooks1.zip . (The old URL was
missing one directory, so the file could not be downloaded. Sorry!)

Regarding Augustine's Confessions -- I will compare the German text
and the English translation more thoroughly. I'm not sure whether the
chapter divisions are different or whether they left out something in
the middle, because the Book 1/Chapter 18 corresponds to Book
1/Chapter 20 in the German version (both are the last chapters in the
first book).

Lastly, I have two questions about module-making policy:

1. Did I understand correctly that we are usually not fixing spelling
   mistakes in module texts, but rather asking the source to fix them,
   then convert again? I let spelling mistakes alone, but fixed some
   section headings that were empty and also nested wrongly. Is that
   okay?

2. The modules contain several tags that BibleCS doesn't understand,
   but BibleTime does, namely: h1, ..., h6, ul, li, p align=center,
   font size=+1 (They are valid ThML also, I think). Should I change
   them to suit the lowest-common denominator (e.g. change h1 to
   pb.../p/b)?

Have a blessed Sunday, everyone!

Greetings,
   Christian

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/

Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too
easily pleased.  -- C.S. Lewis

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore!

[Chris Little]

Please feel free to release them on CrossWire as beta modules.  It 
provides a conventient, central place for us to collect modules that 
haven't yet been tested thoroughly so that they can be tested before being 
released publicly.

--Chris

On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Christian Renz wrote:

 Well, galore is maybe too optimistic a term... I chose a few books
 from CCEL and converted them to Sword format. They are:
 
 The Confessions of St. Augustine
 Sermons on Gospel Themes (Charles Finney)
 Heretics (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 Orthodoxy (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 The Normal Christian Life (Watchman Nee)
 The Pilgrims Progress (John Bunyan) -- minor update
 The Practice of the Presence of God (Brother Lawrence)
 
 You can get them as usual from ftp.web42.com:/pub/sword/raw (using the
 Install manager) or as one zip file from
 http://www.web42.com/sword/new-genbooks.zip .
 
 If there are no objections, I will release them on crosswire.org.

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore!

[Joachim Ansorg]

Christian,

well done!

 The Confessions of St. Augustine

I only tested this with BibleTime. Looks good!
I found the following bugs/problems:
- Language should be set to en or en_us, en-us is invalid
- I compared the number of chapters with the german module of Augustinus 
confessions I created:
- The first book in your module has two chapters less then the german 
one! 
Maybe CCEL's fault. The other books are right.

 Sermons on Gospel Themes (Charles Finney)
 Heretics (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 Orthodoxy (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 The Normal Christian Life (Watchman Nee)
 The Pilgrims Progress (John Bunyan) -- minor update
 The Practice of the Presence of God (Brother Lawrence)

 If there are no objections, I will release them on crosswire.org.

Nice job, really! I good to have more module creators working on new texts!

BTW, I discovered that BibleTime's book display code was totally wrong on your 
modules. Fixed now in CVS.

Joachim
-- 
Joachim Ansorg
www.bibletime.de
www.ansorgs.de

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore!

[Dan Bertles]

I tried to download the zip file, but the site: 
http://www.web42.com/sword/new-genbooks.zip is not found.

Quoting Christian Renz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Well, galore is maybe too optimistic a term... I chose a few books
 from CCEL and converted them to Sword format. They are:
 
 The Confessions of St. Augustine
 Sermons on Gospel Themes (Charles Finney)
 Heretics (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 Orthodoxy (Gilbert K. Chesterton)
 The Normal Christian Life (Watchman Nee)
 The Pilgrims Progress (John Bunyan) -- minor update
 The Practice of the Presence of God (Brother Lawrence)
 
 You can get them as usual from ftp.web42.com:/pub/sword/raw (using the
 Install manager) or as one zip file from
 http://www.web42.com/sword/new-genbooks.zip .
 
 If there are no objections, I will release them on crosswire.org.
 
 Greetings,
Christian
 
 -- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/
 
 Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite
 importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
 -- C.S. Lewis
 

Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore!

[Lloyd N. Landers, Jr.]

  I tried to download the new files using Install Manager, but it 
  didn't show the files. Then I tried to download the ZIP file using 
  FTP, but got the message "file not found."
  
  
  
  
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 
  November 30, 2002 02:55:06 PM
  To: sword-devel
  Subject: Re: 
      [sword-devel] Genbooks Galore!
  Please feel free to release them on CrossWire as beta 
  modules. It provides a conventient, central place for us to collect 
  modules that haven't yet been tested thoroughly so that they can be 
  tested before being released publicly.--ChrisOn Sat, 
  30 Nov 2002, Christian Renz wrote: Well, "galore" is maybe too 
  optimistic a term... I chose a few books from CCEL and converted 
  them to Sword format. They are:  The Confessions of St. 
  Augustine Sermons on Gospel Themes (Charles Finney) 
  Heretics (Gilbert K. Chesterton) Orthodoxy (Gilbert K. 
  Chesterton) The Normal Christian Life (Watchman Nee) The 
  Pilgrims Progress (John Bunyan) -- minor update The Practice of 
  the Presence of God (Brother Lawrence)  You can get them 
  as usual from ftp.web42.com:/pub/sword/raw (using the Install 
  manager) or as one zip file from http://www.web42.com/sword/new-genbooks.zip 
  .  If there are no objections, I will release them on 
  crosswire.org..