Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
Am 27.10.2017 um 11:53 schrieb 清辰: Where is the 'service xxx status' result stored? Or can I change the service status manually, when start / stop the service outside of systemd just don't start it outside systemd - yes it's really that easy ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Fr, 27.10.17 17:53, 清辰 (624001...@qq.com) wrote: > Hi, > > > Where is the 'service xxx status' result stored? Or can I change the > service status manually, when start / stop the service outside of > systemd. PID 1 maintains a per-service record in its internal memory. Only PID 1 itself has write access to it. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Thu, 29.06.17 11:51, Oliver Neukum (oneu...@suse.com) wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 29.06.2017, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald: > > > > Am 29.06.2017 um 10:05 schrieb Oliver Neukum: > > > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > > > > > > > > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > > > > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > > > > services that aren't started? > > > > > > Because you command it to do so. > > > The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start > > > something that is running. The reverse does not apply > > > > this is nonsense - how in the world should systemmd know what to stop > > when it has no clue about the involved processes because it did not > > start the service and hence has no tracking at all > > So try and fail. That is still no excuse for ruling out that you can > stop a service you have not started. That is pure politics. Note that stopping services is more than just invoking an ExecStop= script, as systemd will kill everything remaining after that, and waits for all processes being gone before considering the service properly down. All that falls apart if systemd never tracked the service, as we neither know what to kill nor what to wait for. In fact, a major chunk of services don't even have ExecStop= anymore, as it is mostly redundant with this scheme, as just sending SIGTERM covers 80% of how common system services are shut down. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
Am 29.06.2017 um 11:51 schrieb Oliver Neukum: Am Donnerstag, den 29.06.2017, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald: Am 29.06.2017 um 10:05 schrieb Oliver Neukum: Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop services that aren't started? Because you command it to do so. The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start something that is running. The reverse does not apply this is nonsense - how in the world should systemmd know what to stop when it has no clue about the involved processes because it did not start the service and hence has no tracking at all So try and fail. That is still no excuse for ruling out that you can stop a service you have not started. That is pure politics. *try WHAT* - kill random processes? simple example after that you hopefully understand why this is nonsense * i have two servcies on several machines * each of the has "mysqld" as ExecStart using different configs * "mysqld.service" and "replication.service" so what do you do when "replication.service" is not started and you say "systemctl stop replicatiuon.service" - kill my other mysqld? ps aux | grep openvpn | wc -l 7 what do you do when you issue "systemctl stop openvpn1.service" and it is not running? kill my other 6 instanes, kill only one of them and if yes which one a service manager is not a gambling machine * if you start a process by hand kill it by hand * if you start a process as service kill it with systemcl it's really that easy ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 11:51:53AM +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 29.06.2017, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald: > > > > Am 29.06.2017 um 10:05 schrieb Oliver Neukum: > > > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > > > > > > > > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > > > > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > > > > services that aren't started? > > > > > > Because you command it to do so. > > > The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start > > > something that is running. The reverse does not apply > > > > this is nonsense - how in the world should systemmd know what to stop > > when it has no clue about the involved processes because it did not > > start the service and hence has no tracking at all > > > > So try and fail. That is still no excuse for ruling out that you can > stop a service you have not started. That is pure politics. There's no service if it wasn't started by systemd. It's just a random binary. -- Tomasz Torcz Morality must always be based on practicality. xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl-- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
Am 29.06.2017 um 10:05 schrieb Oliver Neukum: Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop services that aren't started? Because you command it to do so. The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start something that is running. The reverse does not apply this is nonsense - how in the world should systemmd know what to stop when it has no clue about the involved processes because it did not start the service and hence has no tracking at all ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
Am Donnerstag, den 29.06.2017, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald: > > Am 29.06.2017 um 10:05 schrieb Oliver Neukum: > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > > > > > > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > > > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > > > services that aren't started? > > > > Because you command it to do so. > > The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start > > something that is running. The reverse does not apply > > this is nonsense - how in the world should systemmd know what to stop > when it has no clue about the involved processes because it did not > start the service and hence has no tracking at all > So try and fail. That is still no excuse for ruling out that you can stop a service you have not started. That is pure politics. Regards Oliver ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Thu, 29.06.17 10:05, Oliver Neukum (oneu...@suse.com) wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > > services that aren't started? > > Because you command it to do so. Because things are technically designed that way. When systemd manages services it does so ensuring it will get SIGCHLD events for them. it will also run them in a cgroup, so that it can monitor its lifetime by enumerating the cgroup's contents, and getting events from it. Now, if you start stuff outside of systemd nothing of that is available, so systemd wouldn#t know that is running, and it couldn't properly stop anything because it can't get ahold of the processes to terminate. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 10:05:08AM +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > > services that aren't started? > > Because you command it to do so. > The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start > something that is running. The reverse does not apply. By starting nscd in some shell session, there's no mapping between running executable and a service. Systemd has no way of knowing that random nscd binary is supposed to be killed when 'systemctl stop nscd' is invoked. How would it know? That is really the question! How systemd would know that unrelated binary should be killed when user invokes 'systemctl stop' on service, service which has not been started? Is systemd supposed to compare full path of all running binaries to ExecStart= lines in unit files? But what about situation when you have multiple services with the same ExecStart=? Maybe user starting random binaries in login session should echo their PIDs into 'tasks' file in relevant cgroup? What if the cgroup does not exists yet (because service wasn't started)? This quickly becames a dangerous hackery. I'm all ears – what's your solution? -- Tomasz Torcz Morality must always be based on practicality. xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl-- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
Am Mittwoch, den 28.06.2017, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering: > Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, > knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop > services that aren't started? Because you command it to do so. The check systemd does adds no value. There is a reason to not start something that is running. The reverse does not apply. Regards Oliver ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] 回复： 回复： [systemd-de vel] systemctl can't execute stop actually,whenservice is started by other way
On Wed, 28.06.17 19:10, 清辰 (624001...@qq.com) wrote: > Why? I think that will be more insured in case the status is not > correct. Well, it's a service manager. As such it keeps track of services, knows when they are started and when they aren't. Why would it stop services that aren't started? I am sorry, but systemd is simply not intended to be used that way. Either you run your stuff as systemd service and then tell systemd to stop it again too, or do not use systemd for service management, and then tell it somehow else. Sorry, Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
