Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 01:47:40PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. FYI: I have now retired the package in Fedora 22 and rawhide. Zbyszek ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 05:32 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Mon, 30.03.15 20:35, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. It's already dropped: we split it out of the main git repo for a while. Now it is its own repo, slowly bitrotting away. I wouldn't package it the way it is right now, but this is really up to the packagers. I mean, it's incomplete, out of date and really buggy, but I don't care too much if people use it anyway... Then you should not care too much if we properly take it out of it's misery and deliver it's final notice since it's always better to delete and or archive with a notice that relevant bits are unmaintained and they exists only for historic and or educational purposes than to simply split it out of the main git repo for it to die it's slow and miserably bit rotting death and somehow expect people to magically figure that out. The former sends a clear cut messages that those bits should not be in circulation and exist only for historic or education purposes and it can be forked and maintained elsewhere while the latter leaves it open to interpretation with an end result of wasting peoples contributed time ( package reviewers,releng, qa, reporters and eventually upstream community when that circle completes ) and reflect badly on the bits upstream community ( end user frustration, bad reviews, bad rep on set maintainers etc ) since someone will always get the bright idea of packaging the bit rotters and ship it in their distribution which leads to the previous mentioned end result. So even if you dont care, you should remember ifplugd and it's longevity in Fedora with the relevant TCE for the project after you had effectively seized to maintain it. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 02:30 AM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Logs I see the dbus type problems you are probably getting. Isn't this actually a bug in systemd as we are still exporting as systemd1? If we are incompatible shouldn't we be systemd2? I'm not following, I'm not getting any bugs. As far as I know Kay and Lennart wrote that ui as an proof of concept 4 years ago, to get people started on writing their own ui not as something that should be carried or maintained in longterm in systemd. Since then cockpit has emerged as an frontend to systemd as well as kcmsystemd for KDE and atleast a journal log parser in Gnome. What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
Am Montag, den 30.03.2015, 20:35 + schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson: It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Is there a replacement for systemd-gnome-ask-password-agent in any desktop suite? I know at least one person using that peace of systemd-ui… Of course it can be easily forked and maintained outside of systemd if there is no interest in maintaining it upstream anymore. Regards, Michael ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. Zbyszek ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 01:47 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. If the intent is to keep it, it needs to be labeled with big fat warning that it only exist as an historical artifact. That is not a problem with the github mirror since there you can just add that notice/warning to the README however the official repository should be deleted otherwise it might cause confusion among end users and distributions since it exist there with the systemd/systemd-stable repositories and as far as I know there is no easy means of conveying such message in cgit. ( but I might be wrong ) Other distribution than Fedora should as well retire it since it has outlived it's usefulness in them as it has in Fedora. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
2015-03-31 16:20 GMT+02:00 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com: On 03/31/2015 02:09 PM, Michael Biebl wrote: 2015-03-31 15:47 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbys...@in.waw.pl: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. It's unfortunate though, that we don't have a nice replacement for GNOME, though. It's also unfortunate that there exist no native application to all the other *DE floating around there is it not? KDE has kcmsystemd And from the looks of it the Red Hat desktop team maintainers in Gnome seem to be expecting the Gnome users to be using Red Hat's own product cockpit to take care of that. sorry, but that's not a real replacement for systemadm. Don't want to run a webservice just to inspect my local system. That's way overkill. I'm pretty sure those that disagree with that in the Gnome community will step up and write their own application which they can base on the KDE one if they want to. Tbh, I don't see the problem. After all, systemd-ui is already split into a separate repo. -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 02:58 PM, Michael Biebl wrote: When I made the final ConsoleKit release, I added a NEWS entry, saying that this software was discontinued and pointing to the replacements. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/ConsoleKit/commit/?id=af75e100dc4d4fac2e1633aa134e40e390d38918 We could do something similar for systemd-ui. That said, I think there is value in simply keeping the repo around. I dont think there is a problem keeping the upstream git repository as an historical artifact if we convey the message that it's no longer actively being maintained properly. And I think we can achieve that via the news file as you propose, as well as the readme file for github and arguably a mention in the next systemd release. Then we along with downstream distributions could close all bugs filed against it once it has been announced. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 02:27 PM, Michael Biebl wrote: And from the looks of it the Red Hat desktop team maintainers in Gnome seem to be expecting the Gnome users to be using Red Hat's own product cockpit to take care of that. sorry, but that's not a real replacement for systemadm. Don't want to run a webservice just to inspect my local system. That's way overkill. No argument here and I personally had been expected David King to take care of writing and maintaining the native Gnome application. That however has not happened yet. I'm pretty sure those that disagree with that in the Gnome community will step up and write their own application which they can base on the KDE one if they want to. Tbh, I don't see the problem. After all, systemd-ui is already split into a separate repo. The problem is nobody is maintaining this so someone either steps up from the community, takes ownership of the application and cleans it up in the process, and makes it a prime example of what could be done ui wise in systemd or we drop it ( unless people are huge fan of things bit rotting ). JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
2015-03-31 15:47 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbys...@in.waw.pl: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. It's unfortunate though, that we don't have a nice replacement for GNOME, though. -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
When I made the final ConsoleKit release, I added a NEWS entry, saying that this software was discontinued and pointing to the replacements. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/ConsoleKit/commit/?id=af75e100dc4d4fac2e1633aa134e40e390d38918 We could do something similar for systemd-ui. That said, I think there is value in simply keeping the repo around. 2015-03-31 16:41 GMT+02:00 Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com: On 03/31/2015 02:27 PM, Michael Biebl wrote: And from the looks of it the Red Hat desktop team maintainers in Gnome seem to be expecting the Gnome users to be using Red Hat's own product cockpit to take care of that. sorry, but that's not a real replacement for systemadm. Don't want to run a webservice just to inspect my local system. That's way overkill. No argument here and I personally had been expected David King to take care of writing and maintaining the native Gnome application. That however has not happened yet. I'm pretty sure those that disagree with that in the Gnome community will step up and write their own application which they can base on the KDE one if they want to. Tbh, I don't see the problem. After all, systemd-ui is already split into a separate repo. The problem is nobody is maintaining this so someone either steps up from the community, takes ownership of the application and cleans it up in the process, and makes it a prime example of what could be done ui wise in systemd or we drop it ( unless people are huge fan of things bit rotting ). JBG -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 02:30 PM, Michael Laß wrote: Am Montag, den 30.03.2015, 20:35 + schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson: It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Is there a replacement for systemd-gnome-ask-password-agent in any desktop suite? I know at least one person using that peace of systemd-ui… Of course it can be easily forked and maintained outside of systemd if there is no interest in maintaining it upstream anymore. Does not KDE have/use systemd-kde-agent [1] that serves the same purpose? Anyway systemd-gnome-ask-password-agent sounds like something that should be part of Gnome itself ( Gnome Keyring maybe? ) and or part of other *DE with s/Gnome/DE The code is here [2] and the doc for password agents here [3]. 1. https://github.com/oxan/systemd-kde-agent 2. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd-ui/tree/src/gnome-ask-password-agent.vala 3. http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PasswordAgents/ ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 31 March 2015 at 15:08, Shawn Landden shawnland...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/31/2015 02:30 AM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Logs I see the dbus type problems you are probably getting. Isn't this actually a bug in systemd as we are still exporting as systemd1? If we are incompatible shouldn't we be systemd2? I'm not following, I'm not getting any bugs. (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobNew of type (uos) since the type from the expected interface is (uo) (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobRemoved of type (uoss) since the type from the expected interface is (uos) Are the systemd-ui systemd out of sync on this machine? Sure the DBus signature of that method was changed in 2012... but reverting that commit _now_ will induce yet another API break. Note that imho the current JobNew/JobRemoved signals are imho incomplete - See: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/026928.html But it is again too late to break the DBus api again. See comments on that thread. commit 06dab8e18aebf822392c7ca66c5bf3c1200fdec8 Author: Lennart Poettering lenn...@poettering.net Date: Thu May 3 22:53:25 2012 +0200 dbus: include unit name in JobNew/JobRemoved signals This breaks D-Bus interface slightly, but since the D-Bus API isn't covered by the interface stability promise this should be OK. diff --git a/src/core/dbus-manager.c b/src/core/dbus-manager.c index 6655f29..b5b5113 100644 --- a/src/core/dbus-manager.c +++ b/src/core/dbus-manager.c @@ -198,10 +198,12 @@ signal name=\JobNew\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ /signal\n \ signal name=\JobRemoved\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ arg name=\result\ type=\s\/\n\ /signal \ signal name=\StartupFinished\\n \ As far as I know Kay and Lennart wrote that ui as an proof of concept 4 years ago, to get people started on writing their own ui not as something that should be carried or maintained in longterm in systemd. Since then cockpit has emerged as an frontend to systemd as well as kcmsystemd for KDE and atleast a journal log parser in Gnome. What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. JBG -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel -- Regards, Dimitri. https://clearlinux.org Open Source Technology Center Intel Corporation (UK) Ltd. - Co. Reg. #1134945 - Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/31/2015 02:09 PM, Michael Biebl wrote: 2015-03-31 15:47 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbys...@in.waw.pl: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:31:31AM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. Agreed that it doesn't make sense to have this distributed. E.g. Fedora should retire the package. Upstream git repository should stay as a historical artifact of course. It's unfortunate though, that we don't have a nice replacement for GNOME, though. It's also unfortunate that there exist no native application to all the other *DE floating around there is it not? And from the looks of it the Red Hat desktop team maintainers in Gnome seem to be expecting the Gnome users to be using Red Hat's own product cockpit to take care of that. I'm pretty sure those that disagree with that in the Gnome community will step up and write their own application which they can base on the KDE one if they want to. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, 30.03.15 19:30, Shawn Landden (shawnland...@gmail.com) wrote: What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? It is only suppose to show fields that have been changed by humans (even the developer) not systemd defaults. Hmm? It supresses empty fields by default, unless you specify --all in which cases it shows everything. It really is supposed to show you everything that is in effect, not just the stuff humans configured. If you want that, use systemcl cat. I mean, systemctl show exists precisely to have a look at the effect of implicit dependencies and such, which are otherwise difficult to figure out. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, 30.03.15 15:32, Shawn Landden (shawnland...@gmail.com) wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. What precisely are you referring to? Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Dimitri John Ledkov dimitri.j.led...@intel.com wrote: On 31 March 2015 at 15:08, Shawn Landden shawnland...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/31/2015 02:30 AM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Logs I see the dbus type problems you are probably getting. Isn't this actually a bug in systemd as we are still exporting as systemd1? If we are incompatible shouldn't we be systemd2? I'm not following, I'm not getting any bugs. (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobNew of type (uos) since the type from the expected interface is (uo) (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobRemoved of type (uoss) since the type from the expected interface is (uos) Are the systemd-ui systemd out of sync on this machine? Built against systemd 25, run against systemd 218, I will check out what is going on Sure the DBus signature of that method was changed in 2012... but reverting that commit _now_ will induce yet another API break. Note that imho the current JobNew/JobRemoved signals are imho incomplete - See: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/026928.html But it is again too late to break the DBus api again. See comments on that thread. How about adding a JobNew2, JobRemoved2 ? This should have happened last time instead of a break. commit 06dab8e18aebf822392c7ca66c5bf3c1200fdec8 Author: Lennart Poettering lenn...@poettering.net Date: Thu May 3 22:53:25 2012 +0200 dbus: include unit name in JobNew/JobRemoved signals This breaks D-Bus interface slightly, but since the D-Bus API isn't covered by the interface stability promise this should be OK. diff --git a/src/core/dbus-manager.c b/src/core/dbus-manager.c index 6655f29..b5b5113 100644 --- a/src/core/dbus-manager.c +++ b/src/core/dbus-manager.c @@ -198,10 +198,12 @@ signal name=\JobNew\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ /signal\n \ signal name=\JobRemoved\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ arg name=\result\ type=\s\/\n\ /signal \ signal name=\StartupFinished\\n \ As far as I know Kay and Lennart wrote that ui as an proof of concept 4 years ago, to get people started on writing their own ui not as something that should be carried or maintained in longterm in systemd. Since then cockpit has emerged as an frontend to systemd as well as kcmsystemd for KDE and atleast a journal log parser in Gnome. What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. JBG -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel -- Regards, Dimitri. https://clearlinux.org Open Source Technology Center Intel Corporation (UK) Ltd. - Co. Reg. #1134945 - Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ. -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, 30.03.15 20:35, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. It's already dropped: we split it out of the main git repo for a while. Now it is its own repo, slowly bitrotting away. I wouldn't package it the way it is right now, but this is really up to the packagers. I mean, it's incomplete, out of date and really buggy, but I don't care too much if people use it anyway... Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Lennart Poettering lenn...@poettering.net wrote: On Mon, 30.03.15 19:30, Shawn Landden (shawnland...@gmail.com) wrote: What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? It is only suppose to show fields that have been changed by humans (even the developer) not systemd defaults. Hmm? It supresses empty fields by default, unless you specify --all in which cases it shows everything. It really is supposed to show you everything that is in effect, not just the stuff humans configured. If you want that, use systemcl cat. I mean, systemctl show exists precisely to have a look at the effect of implicit dependencies and such, which are otherwise difficult to figure out. I should have been clearer about the language. Yes all this stuff it should show, but: LimitCPU=18446744073709551615 LimitFSIZE=18446744073709551615 LimitDATA=18446744073709551615 LimitSTACK=18446744073709551615 LimitCORE=18446744073709551615 LimitRSS=18446744073709551615 LimitNOFILE=4096 LimitAS=18446744073709551615 LimitNPROC=11881 LimitMEMLOCK=65536 LimitLOCKS=18446744073709551615 LimitSIGPENDING=11881 LimitMSGQUEUE=819200 LimitNICE=0 LimitRTPRIO=0 LimitRTTIME=18446744073709551615 CPUShares=18446744073709551615 StartupCPUShares=18446744073709551615 CPUQuotaPerSecUSec=infinity BlockIOAccounting=no BlockIOWeight=18446744073709551615 StartupBlockIOWeight=18446744073709551615 MemoryAccounting=no MemoryLimit=18446744073709551615 OOMScoreAdjust=0 Nice=0 IOScheduling=0 CPUSchedulingPolicy=0 CPUSchedulingPriority=0 TimerSlackNSec=5 These are all kernel defaults. These ARE empty, and a few of those are even 0. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/31/2015 02:30 AM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Logs I see the dbus type problems you are probably getting. Isn't this actually a bug in systemd as we are still exporting as systemd1? If we are incompatible shouldn't we be systemd2? I'm not following, I'm not getting any bugs. (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobNew of type (uos) since the type from the expected interface is (uo) (systemadm:167530): GLib-GIO-WARNING **: Dropping signal JobRemoved of type (uoss) since the type from the expected interface is (uos) commit 06dab8e18aebf822392c7ca66c5bf3c1200fdec8 Author: Lennart Poettering lenn...@poettering.net Date: Thu May 3 22:53:25 2012 +0200 dbus: include unit name in JobNew/JobRemoved signals This breaks D-Bus interface slightly, but since the D-Bus API isn't covered by the interface stability promise this should be OK. diff --git a/src/core/dbus-manager.c b/src/core/dbus-manager.c index 6655f29..b5b5113 100644 --- a/src/core/dbus-manager.c +++ b/src/core/dbus-manager.c @@ -198,10 +198,12 @@ signal name=\JobNew\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ /signal\n \ signal name=\JobRemoved\\n \ arg name=\id\ type=\u\/\n\ arg name=\job\ type=\o\/\n \ + arg name=\unit\ type=\s\/\n \ arg name=\result\ type=\s\/\n\ /signal \ signal name=\StartupFinished\\n \ As far as I know Kay and Lennart wrote that ui as an proof of concept 4 years ago, to get people started on writing their own ui not as something that should be carried or maintained in longterm in systemd. Since then cockpit has emerged as an frontend to systemd as well as kcmsystemd for KDE and atleast a journal log parser in Gnome. What I'm proposing is that we dropped that proof of concept since it's not being maintained, there exist better alternatives thus it's intended purpose has been fulfilled already. JBG -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
[systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? JBG ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/30/2015 10:32 PM, Shawn Landden wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Heyja Should this not be dropped and *DE write,integrate/implement an graphical frontend to systemd for themselves? It's not like this is receiving the love it needs, hence I'm pretty sure nobody is using this. Parts of systemd arn't getting the love they need either, such as systemctl show. For systemd ui the *DE communities are better suited to implement, integrate and maintain an ui on top of systemd for their *DE. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Logs I see the dbus type problems you are probably getting. Isn't this actually a bug in systemd as we are still exporting as systemd1? If we are incompatible shouldn't we be systemd2? What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? It is only suppose to show fields that have been changed by humans (even the developer) not systemd defaults. JBG -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
В Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:30:02 -0700 Shawn Landden shawnland...@gmail.com пишет: What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? It is only suppose to show fields that have been changed by humans (even the developer) not systemd defaults. From its appearance it was supposed to show current unit properties in machine parseable format. Are you sure you do not confused it with systemd cat? ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] Drop systemd-ui
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Andrei Borzenkov arvidj...@gmail.com wrote: В Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:30:02 -0700 Shawn Landden shawnland...@gmail.com пишет: What do you feel is missing from systemctl show? It is only suppose to show fields that have been changed by humans (even the developer) not systemd defaults. From its appearance it was supposed to show current unit properties in machine parseable format. Are you sure you do not confused it with systemd cat? Yes I am sure, I wrote systemctl cat. -- Liberty equality fraternity or death, Shawn Landden ChurchOfGit.com ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
