Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
Hi Barry, I like language purity, but in this case I reluctantly have to agree that ellipsize is better. Elide is from latin elidare (to crush out), so the etymology fits perfectly. But ellipsize is just more understandable at first sight... even if it is a made up word. I'm sorry that I lead you on here. Zbyszek ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On 4.2.2014 20:43, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Tue, 04.02.14 15:45, Barry Scott (barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk) wrote: On Tue 04 Feb 2014 19:36:34 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. Ellipsize is not in any dictionary for any language. Note that ellipsize is what gtk uses for this kind of thing: https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkLabel.html#gtk-label-set-ellipsize Pango calls this ellipsize too: https://developer.gnome.org/pango/stable/pango-Layout-Objects.html#pango-layout-set-ellipsize And so does Android: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/widget/TextView.html#setEllipsize%28android.text.TextUtils.TruncateAt%29 Quite frankly, I am pretty strongly against introducing new vocabulary here, if the word ellipsize appears to be pretty universally established for this kind of thing... I mean, this is not something new we are invented, this simply reused pre-existing technical wording... Lennart I am not a native speaker but I understood word ellipsize on the first sight as I've seen/heard word ellipsis before. So IMHO the meaning here is much more obvious then for the word elide. WRT links Lennart sent above I would vote for ellipsizing rather than eliding strings. Vaclav ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
Elided sees widespread use in the kernel and libc for locks: http://lwn.net/Articles/534758/ They're not referring to adding ellipses, though. They're talking about just removing locks. In that sense, elide and ellipsize are not synonyms. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On Tue 04 Feb 2014 19:36:34 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. Ellipsize is not in any dictionary for any language. Elide is the English word describing what is meant by the ... ellipsis and can be looked up in any dictionary, which is better the a word that cannot be looked up. Using a well defined word will allow translators to create good quality translations of the systemd UI. Barry ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
'Twas brillig, and Andrey Borzenkov at 04/02/14 15:36 did gyre and gimble: В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. As a native English speaker I must admit that elide was a new one on me! I asked one of my colleagues (a former English teacher) and his take on it was that an elision is more commonly used to mean joining together (which in the process might mean abridging some of the components) - this is typically the usage in music notation for example where a line joining two notes together. I do agree that ellipsize is not a real world but it is quite descriptive. If we do want to describe the action taken rather than the effect, then I would use the word truncate here, rather than elide as this is really what happens now as implemented. If the logic was made smarter to not necessarily truncate at the end (e.g. to remove vowels or similar), then abbreviate would be better (although I cannot see this happening any time soon in a language agnostic way!). My £0.02 Col PS, why is abbreviate such a long word? -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/ ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Colin Guthrie gm...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Andrey Borzenkov at 04/02/14 15:36 did gyre and gimble: В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. As a native English speaker I must admit that elide was a new one on me! I am a native English speaker. I was familiar with elide, but not in this context, however it is clear to me now that this is the correct word for what we are doing. I asked one of my colleagues (a former English teacher) and his take on it was that an elision is more commonly used to mean joining together (which in the process might mean abridging some of the components) - this is typically the usage in music notation for example where a line joining two notes together. we are joining the beginning and the end together I do agree that ellipsize is not a real world but it is quite descriptive. If we do want to describe the action taken rather than the effect, then I would use the word truncate here, rather than elide as this is really what happens now as implemented. If the logic was made smarter to not necessarily truncate at the end (e.g. to remove vowels or similar), then abbreviate would be better (although I cannot see this happening any time soon in a language agnostic way!). My £0.02 Col PS, why is abbreviate such a long word? abbreviate is not correct, as we make no attempt to preserve the full meaning. Shawn ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On Tue 04 Feb 2014 16:15:52 Colin Guthrie wrote: If we do want to describe the action taken rather than the effect, then I would use the word truncate here, rather than elide as this is really what happens now as implemented. But the output is not truncated. Here is example from my system: home-build\x2dvm-de...onelan\x2df16\x2d5-home-bscott.mount loaded active mounted /home/build-vm/dev64-onelan-f16-5/home/bscott The middle has been removed, not the end. Barry ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
'Twas brillig, and Barry Scott at 04/02/14 16:49 did gyre and gimble: On Tue 04 Feb 2014 16:15:52 Colin Guthrie wrote: If we do want to describe the action taken rather than the effect, then I would use the word truncate here, rather than elide as this is really what happens now as implemented. But the output is not truncated. Here is example from my system: home-build\x2dvm-de...onelan\x2df16\x2d5-home-bscott.mount loaded active mounted /home/build-vm/dev64-onelan-f16-5/home/bscott The middle has been removed, not the end. Ahh yup, that's true. In many cases output *is* truncated, but here it certainly isn't. Fair enough I guess. Can't really argue with that logic (and it could easily descend into a bikeshed anyway if I tried! :D) Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/ ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On Tue, 04.02.14 15:45, Barry Scott (barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk) wrote: On Tue 04 Feb 2014 19:36:34 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: В Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:31:58 + Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk пишет: Change the messages output and also all internal function names and variables to match. As a non-native English speaker I must admit ellipsize was more understandable. I am not sure I would understand elide if it was not used in this context. Ellipsize is not in any dictionary for any language. Note that ellipsize is what gtk uses for this kind of thing: https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkLabel.html#gtk-label-set-ellipsize Pango calls this ellipsize too: https://developer.gnome.org/pango/stable/pango-Layout-Objects.html#pango-layout-set-ellipsize And so does Android: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/widget/TextView.html#setEllipsize%28android.text.TextUtils.TruncateAt%29 Quite frankly, I am pretty strongly against introducing new vocabulary here, if the word ellipsize appears to be pretty universally established for this kind of thing... I mean, this is not something new we are invented, this simply reused pre-existing technical wording... Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Use normal English elide in place of ellipsize
On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Barry Scott barry.sc...@onelan.co.uk wrote: On Tue 04 Feb 2014 16:15:52 Colin Guthrie wrote: If we do want to describe the action taken rather than the effect, then I would use the word truncate here, rather than elide as this is really what happens now as implemented. But the output is not truncated. Here is example from my system: home-build\x2dvm-de...onelan\x2df16\x2d5-home-bscott.mount loaded active mounted /home/build-vm/dev64-onelan-f16-5/home/bscott The middle has been removed, not the end. Barry What about using shortened or omitted? Both of those words are much more common than elided. Jason ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
