Re: t-and-f: Jon Entine/Jim Brown
In a message dated 4/4/01 8:37:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The shows called "On The Record", It's scheduled to come on again at 10:00pm (MST) Thursday night and 9:00am (MST) Saturday morning on HBO. I missed the beginning of the show, but Jon Entine, Jim Brown and John Edgar Wideman(?) are discussing race and athletics on Bob Costas' show on HBO. Don't know what time it airs in the rest of the country, but it will probably be repeated during the week. Walt Murphy
t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
DGS needs to leave the scriptures off his comments. If he/we need spiritual uplifting then another avenue of information needs to be explored. Of course, anytime his name pops up one can always - DELETE, DELETE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]">Who took the bronze in that race? And what was the time? I know Joe and Carl, but who took third? Faith is a road seldom traveledLet us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
Jimmy, After reading some of the stuff that gets posted on this list, I need all the uplifting I can get. Obviously it didn't work on you. Are you getting the same rains that Austin is getting? Jim McLatchie wrote: DGS needs to leave the scriptures off his comments. If he/we need spiritual uplifting then another avenue of information needs to be explored. Of course, anytime his name pops up one can always - DELETE, DELETE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]">Who took the bronze in that race? And what was the time? I know Joe and Carl, but who took third? Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
Netters Jim wrote: DGS needs to leave the scriptures off his comments. I see no reason why Darrell or anyone else needs to change their qoutes. They are not obscene and to request such violates his first amendment rights. Besides, Darrell's chosen quote is a good one for this forum.
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
I recall reading somewhere that it was impossible to re-measure the course years later because part of the course was no longer there due to construction. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 3, 2001 10:35:08 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: Record duration In a message dated Tue, 3 Apr 2001 3:36:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ed Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've always been impressed by Clayton's time because it was way ahead of anyone else at the time (not that Beamon and the others weren't!). Having read his book on how he trained, it's not hard to see why he ran so fast on 2 or 3 occasions - 140 miles per week, over 100 of it at near marathon pace. He also was often injured and had difficulty peaking because he just ran hard all the time. I don't know how modern marathon statisticians view Clayton's time, but there was certainly no end of skepticism about course length for many years after we ran it, and there's no doubt that course-measuring techniques and requirements weren't remotely as effective then as now. Given that a couple of decades worth of studs the caliber of Shorter and Cierpinski couldn't take the mark down would add some credence to the claims of the naysayers, although it may well be that the Antwerp course (anybody know it?) was just the precursor of the modern flat speedways that make sub-2:10s so easy, while Shorter Co. were putting out their best efforts on more difficult routes. gh
t-and-f: Re: DGs and his scriptures
The true issue is why would this be a topic for you to address at all? Darrell Gene Smith, Jr. Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
Thank you to all of you that have replied, and to those that have written me privately. I do not need to pound anyone over the head, that is not my part of the job. The scripture has meaning to track, to life, and to my religious beliefs. It belongs anywhere I go. It hurts my heart to know someone wants to delete it just because it is at the bottom of the page. Please read it, and think about what it means to you. In track, we have nothing but faith to rely upon. Running, or walking 100 miles a week is not an indication that we will be competitive at the meet. Running all those sprints, and lifting those weights do not guarantee sub 10, sub 20, sub 44, etc. By faith we believe these things will produce at the end of the day. And by faith we come back the following year, to try again, no matter what level of success we did or did not have. Out of respect for the list, I will not continue this thread on the list. See you guys in Texas DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
Wasn't that Rotterdam? Quite near Antwerp, but still a different place! David Dallman On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Edward Koch wrote: I recall reading somewhere that it was impossible to re-measure the course years later because part of the course was no longer there due to construction. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 3, 2001 10:35:08 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: Record duration In a message dated Tue, 3 Apr 2001 3:36:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ed Dana Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've always been impressed by Clayton's time because it was way ahead of anyone else at the time (not that Beamon and the others weren't!). Having read his book on how he trained, it's not hard to see why he ran so fast on 2 or 3 occasions - 140 miles per week, over 100 of it at near marathon pace. He also was often injured and had difficulty peaking because he just ran hard all the time. I don't know how modern marathon statisticians view Clayton's time, but there was certainly no end of skepticism about course length for many years after we ran it, and there's no doubt that course-measuring techniques and requirements weren't remotely as effective then as now. Given that a couple of decades worth of studs the caliber of Shorter and Cierpinski couldn't take the mark down would add some credence to the claims of the naysayers, although it may well be that the Antwerp course (anybody know it?) was just the precursor of the modern flat speedways that make sub-2:10s so easy, while Shorter Co. were putting out their best efforts on more difficult routes. gh David Dallman CERN - SIS
Re: t-and-f: Re: DGs and his scriptures
I can't believe anyone's giving him a hard time for a religious quote under his email signature, although I was wondering whether Jim was kind of joking about it. I can see how many people would not find it a joke, however. Plenty of people have other quotes after their signature, some of which could be offensive. Some ofthem are advertising, which can also be offensive. Personally, I don't like when someone as 20 lines of contact information plus degrees earned, etc, etc after their name, but who the hell am I to tell someone not to do it? I'm happy to give Darrell a hard time about the issues (and I have) when we disagree, but this is silly. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: t-and-f: Re: DGs and his scriptures The true issue is why would this be a topic for you to address at all? Darrell Gene Smith, Jr. Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
t-and-f: ATFS annuals
I hope I'm not offending the anti-commercial nature of this list (although many other people do it so why should I worry?) but I have been investigating the possibilities of re-printing some of the ATFS annuals (The International Track and Field Annual) which have been out of print for years. I often get people asking for books from the 70's and 80s which are no more but modern technology has moved printing along to the stage where it might be worth re-printing. Basically I don't want orders now, I just need to know if people would be interested. If I get enough to make it worthwhile I can do it. So if interested please let me know which years and I'll get back to you. Randall Northam SportsBooks Ltd. PS: this year's annual is at the printers
RE: t-and-f: Record duration
I recall reading somewhere that it was impossible to re-measure the course years later because part of the course was no longer there due to construction. Ed Koch An idea came to me regarding this issue of the 2:08:37 really being a "valid" WB. Certainly, all that has been written regarding course measuring, etc. is correct. The fact that Clayton did not run below 2:10 but one other time, lends some support to the skepticism about course length, etc. However, I thought of this: At the time of the Antwerp race (1967), the 5k and 10k record holder was Ron Clarke who ran 13:16 and 27:39. Clarke was definitely "ahead of his time" in the 3k/5k/10k. He was the best against the clock during the 1964-1968 period. Clayton was similar in the marathon. Great against the clock, and "ahead" of his peers at this time. Now, consider what it might have taken (in distance running ability) to go 2:08:37. When the 2:08:37 WB was finally legitimately broken in 1981, first by Salazar (later found to be short) and then by DeCastella at Fukuoka (2:08:18) these two had run these track times: Salazar 13:22 27:40 Rome WCup DeCastella ?? 28:04 Now, Salazar had run those times IN 1981 in the months before his "WR" of 2:08:13. DeCastella may have run that 28:04 later, I don't know. But my point is that if those two could run legitimate 2:08's with ability between 27:40 and 28:05 in the 10k ... then it would be certainly within the realm of possibility for someone (Clayton or somebody else) to have gone 2:08. The year before Salazar had gone 2:09:41 off of the same type of buildup and running 13:23/27:49 in the months before. The general level of the world class at 10k was already at or above the level required for the world's BEST (Clayton at the time) to have cracked 2:09:00 in 1967. This has NO BEARING on the legitimacy of the mark though, and I understand the skepticism about course length for many years after the mark was set.
t-and-f: contacting Steve Bell?
Is Steve Bell (ex-webmaster of trackandfield.com) on this list, or does anyone know how to contact him?
t-and-f: Most venerable records
We have had discussion recently on prep records and how venerable some may or may not be ... There has also been past discussion on how much record breaking we may or may not see on the world scene ... Looking at the current world record list, there are some awesome marks ... What mark would folks say is the "most secure" record at present .. And by that I mean the record which should last the longest before being broken (all records are eventually broken right??) ... I'll stick my neck out and say Jurgen Schult's 243'0" discus on the men's side ... And FloJo's 10.49 on the women's side ... Conway _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Gator bite out of crime...
Title: Gator bite out of crime... From the Seattle Times, 4/5/01 Paul Merca --- Gator bite out of crime Two Florida pole vaulters might finish their Gator careers with track records they'd rather not have. Michael Hissam, a senior, and Brian DaCunha, a sophomore, probably wished they were sprinters when they were caught around 3 a.m. yesterday inside the Gator track concession stand, and police say they weren't there to make a midnight food run. They were charged with burglary - they are suspected of breaking into the baseball field's concession stand, as well - and another count of theft. Apparently they knew the heat was coming, because they also stole a fire extinguisher.
RE: t-and-f: Records
but guys like Virgin, Hunt, Hulst, Williams, McChesney seemed to be running a lot more of the 5,000 , 10,000 type races ... Is that true or just a figment of my imagination ??? tis true. Take '72 as a typical example-- 13 under 14:30 at 3M (but only 2 under 15 at 5K), 20 under 31:50 at 6M, 8 under 32:30 at 10K and 28 under 2:45 in the marathon. Today one has to really search to find more than one or two performers under 15:00 (5K), 33:00(10K) and 3:00 hours in the marathon. Jack Shepard Looking at Jack's message above reminded me of the comment that the "running boom" has spawned the generation of HS girly-men we have seen from roughly 1985 to 1999. Some say the "running boom" started in 1969 or so when Bowerman published the booklet "Jogging" ... and then took off in earnest in 1972 when the US watched Frank Shorter stick it to them in Munich in the Marathon, live on TV. Either way, look at the above stats. This kind of 3M/6M/Mar. running by HS'ers continued for many years later ... in fact most of the HS all-time lists at 2M/3M/5K/6M/10k are full of seniors with a '76, '77, '78 or '79 after their name. So, my question is: Were they great because they were RAISED IN THE 60's? and therefore NOT corrupted by the "boom"? OR, was it the "boom" from 1969 to 1984 that spurred these guys on to 100 mile weeks and 4:10's/8:50's? * I graduated HS in 1985 and noticed a SEVERE drop-off in commitment and depth in my state (and community) in 1984. It has NEVER made it back to the level it was in the 70's. Personal Experience: In 1983, I was a 10th grader, I ran 9:50y to place SIXTH at my conference meet. I ran 9:55 at my Regional meet, and was not even remotely close to qualifying for the State meet. In 1984, a 9:50m WON THE conference meet ... and 9:50m took second at Regional to qualify my teammate for State Meet. This was in MI, who was WAY behind MOST OF THE country back then. Like many have said, it was like the wheels FELL OFF almost overnight, at least in my state.
RE: t-and-f: Records
Brian wrote: but guys like Virgin, Hunt, Hulst, Williams, McChesney seemed to be running a lot more of the 5,000 , 10,000 type races ... Is that true or just a figment of my imagination ??? tis true. Take '72 as a typical example-- 13 under 14:30 at 3M (but only 2 under 15 at 5K), 20 under 31:50 at 6M, 8 under 32:30 at 10K and 28 under 2:45 in the marathon. Today one has to really search to find more than one or two performers under 15:00 (5K), 33:00(10K) and 3:00 hours in the marathon. Jack Shepard Looking at Jack's message above reminded me of the comment that the "running boom" has spawned the generation of HS girly-men we have seen from roughly 1985 to 1999. Some say the "running boom" started in 1969 or so when Bowerman published the booklet "Jogging" ... and then took off in earnest in 1972 when the US watched Frank Shorter stick it to them in Munich in the Marathon, live on TV. Either way, look at the above stats. This kind of 3M/6M/Mar. running by HS'ers continued for many years later ... in fact most of the HS all-time lists at 2M/3M/5K/6M/10k are full of seniors with a '76, '77, '78 or '79 after their name. So, my question is: Were they great because they were RAISED IN THE 60's? and therefore NOT corrupted by the "boom"? OR, was it the "boom" from 1969 to 1984 that spurred these guys on to 100 mile weeks and 4:10's/8:50's? * I graduated HS in 1985 and noticed a SEVERE drop-off in commitment and depth in my state (and community) in 1984. It has NEVER made it back to the level it was in the 70's. Personal Experience: In 1983, I was a 10th grader, I ran 9:50y to place SIXTH at my conference meet. I ran 9:55 at my Regional meet, and was not even remotely close to qualifying for the State meet. In 1984, a 9:50m WON THE conference meet ... and 9:50m took second at Regional to qualify my teammate for State Meet. This was in MI, who was WAY behind MOST OF THE country back then. Like many have said, it was like the wheels FELL OFF almost overnight, at least in my state. For what its worth, I went to high school in the 70's ... My high school track team was very distance oriented as we had a cross country team that was undefeated for 3 years in a row and a very good distance coach ... We had several milers during the 70s that ran under 4:20 with a best of 4:12 and several in the 4:15/4:16 range ... Our 2 milers as I recall were in the 9:05/9:20 range ... Our guys did a lot of distance training off the track ... Fartlek work when they were on the track ... The two names I heard most often during that time with respect to their training was Lydiard and Prefontaine (actualy just Pre) ... And being in California they were training to try to make the state meet and compete against the likes of Eric Hulst, Rich Kimball, Thim Hunt and Ralph Serna, among others ... Our guys were not interested in "recreational" running/training but were running hard every day ... Cause that is what they felt it would take to get to where they wanted to be ... And as long as guys hung around town and "mentored" new kids AND the coach stayed there, the tradition and training continued ... Once the coach left (early 80's) and the older (graduated) guys started "getting their own lives" and started attending practices and meets less the drop off began ... By that time (my own opinion) the "new regime" of coaches and athletes coming in were defniitely more influenced by "running boom" mentality ... And much like with the previous post the distance program hasn't been the same since .. Conway _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Most venerable records
Michael Johnson's 19.32 Going to be a looong time before someone even comes close. With Frankie Fredericks and Michael Johnson out of the picture there will be no-one to pull the others under 20.00 ... I am predicting that the next decade will see the return of 20.00 as a very respectable 200m time. Elliott - Original Message - From: "Conway Hill" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: t-and-f: Most venerable records We have had discussion recently on prep records and how venerable some may or may not be ... There has also been past discussion on how much record breaking we may or may not see on the world scene ... Looking at the current world record list, there are some awesome marks ... What mark would folks say is the "most secure" record at present .. And by that I mean the record which should last the longest before being broken (all records are eventually broken right??) ... I'll stick my neck out and say Jurgen Schult's 243'0" discus on the men's side ... And FloJo's 10.49 on the women's side ... Conway _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Curbless tracks
Wayne's remark about track accuracy reminded me of my last time at Arcadia High School in Glendora, California. They don't have a curb around the track. You could see where the inner lane line marking the edge of the track had been worn by people stepping on it, thus running less than 400 meters. The all-weather track extends beyond the inner lane line, so it is easy to cut off distance around the turns. I have suggested to Doug Speck that they put little cones around the turns to make it more difficult for runners to cut the course. Keith Keith Conning 735 Brookside Drive Vacaville, CA 95688-3509 FAX: 707-448-7667 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WEB: http://hometown.aol.com/conning/myhomepage/index.html
Re: t-and-f: Most venerable records
19.32 without question. It will stand for longer than any of us want to admit. DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: Most venerable records
Elliott wrote: Michael Johnson's 19.32 Going to be a looong time before someone even comes close. With Frankie Fredericks and Michael Johnson out of the picture there will be no-one to pull the others under 20.00 ... I am predicting that the next decade will see the return of 20.00 as a very respectable 200m time. Elliott How can you say that ... Last year there were 5 sprinters that ran under 20.00 and none of them were pulled by either MJ or Frankie ... And there were 5 others under 20.05 ... The list has been fairly solid now for the past few years and neither Frankie or MJ has been a major factor ... And most of those running at this level are 25 years old and under ... The 200 is in good shape as far as quality of competitors ... GEtting them all togehter to compete may be difficult since all the money seems to be in the 100 ... But I think guys like Boldon, Greene, and Obikwelu have the potential to get close as they all have better pure speed than MJ .. Now whether they do or not is another story ... Conway _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Most venerable records
Elliott wrote: Michael Johnson's 19.32 Going to be a looong time before someone even comes close. With Frankie Fredericks and Michael Johnson out of the picture there will be no-one to pull the others under 20.00 ... I am predicting that the next decade will see the return of 20.00 as a very respectable 200m time. OK, I agree it may be a while before the 19.32 is broken or perhaps even approached, although I think the men's discus and pole vault may be equally difficult. I also think the women's 1500m and 10,000m are pretty safe for a while, short of another Chinese invasion. But running 20.00 already IS a respectable time. If you can run 20.00, you certainly expect to make the Olympic or World final and possibly be in contention for a medal. The only time that hasn't been true is 1996. And if the U.S. trials were any indication, there is no dearth of sprinters capable of going under 20.00. I predict that before the 2004 games, we see at least 5-6 people who have not yet broken 20.00 do so. On a related note, I have recently had the opportunity to do some workouts a the Sacramento State track used for the Trials and I can say it is by FAR the fastest track I have ever worked out on. I don't know how it compares to other international meet tracks, but it is worth at least 1 second per quarter over any all-weather track I have run on before. Anyone seeking a qualifying time should certainly consider any opportunities to run on that track - I'm not sure what high level events there are, other than the Pacific USATF championships which are after nationals. It has certainly made me appreciate more how fast guys like Owens, Hayes, Hines, etc. were running decades ago on tracks that were inferior to even the average all-weather track around today, let alone a speedway like Sacramento. I've heard some say that Atlanta was even faster, in which case it certainly had to be worth 1-3 tenths in the 200m over most tracks. - Ed Parrot
t-and-f: Honor diversity? What about MY diversity?
I think that a bigot like Jim needs to be removed from the list. Or at leasthe needsa dollop of "diversity training" shoved down his throat. malmo, BFD -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim McLatchieSent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:03 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures DGS needs to leave the scriptures off his comments. If he/we need spiritual uplifting then another avenue of information needs to be explored. Of course, anytime his name pops up one can always -DELETE, DELETE[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]" type="cite">Who took the bronze in that race? And what was the time? I know Joe and Carl, but who took third? Faith is a road seldom traveledLet us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
t-and-f: STUDIES/ARTICLES ON SHORTAGES OF COACHES
Good Day, I am looking for any articles or studies regarding the availability of track coaches or coaches in general in the US. I am currently writing a paper on "Recruiting, Training and Retaining HS Track Coaches" for a class in my masters program at the US Sports Academy. I realize that there is a teacher shortage in many parts of the country which I assume translates to a shortage of coaches as many coaches are teachers. I am trying to find some evidence backing this hypothesis. Appreciate any assistance. Please respond to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". Thanks. Chris Hickey Annapolis, Maryland Christopher Hickey Director, Watch Operations iJET Travel Intelligence, Inc. 900 Bestgate Road, Suite 400 Annapolis, MD 21401-7964 410-573-3860 x 402 (voice) 410-266-7693 (fax) 410-320-6217 (cell) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ijet.com == iJET TRAVEL INTELLIGENCE . . . So You Know
Re: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
My own personal motto "I would rather believe than not" that goes for anything not just religion. I am never offended by anyone BELIEVING, in anything, as long as they dont mess with my stuff. Mike
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
2:08 was always a soft time for a world best. It has never surprised me that it is now commonplace and second rate. Clayton did it, legit, MHO Mike
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2:08 was always a soft time for a world best. Huh?!? It has never surprised me that it is now commonplace It is? and second rate. WHAT?!? News flash - even in the year 2001, 2:08 is pretty flinkin' fast, and not terribly common. Clayton did it, legit, MHO Mike
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
In 1999 30 guys broke 2:09 and the marathon has always been a weak event (the best runners are not running it) I bet there are conservatively 100 more that could have. It is roughly equivalent to 27:45 10k running. If you are the 20-30th best quarterback or the 30th best tennis player, etc. in a weak league I consider that common. 2:05 is going down soon. MARATHON 2:05:42 Khalid Khannouchi (Mor)WR 2:06:16 . Moses Tanui (Ken) NR 2:06:33 Gert Thys (SA) NR 2:06:44 ... Josephat Kiprono (Ken) 2:06:47 Fred Kiprop (Ken) 2:06:49 ... Tesfaye Jifar (Eth) NR 2:06:50 ... William Kiplagat (Ken) 2:06:57 ... Takayuki Inubushi (Jpn) NR . Tesfaye Tola (Eth) 2:07:09 .. Japhet Kosgei (Ken) (10) 2:07:23 .. Fabin Roncero (Spa) NR 2:07:41 ... Simon Biwott (Ken) 2:07:49 . Kim Yi-yong (SK) 2:07:54 . Gezahegn Abera (Eth) 2:07:55 .. Mohamed Ouaadi (Fra) NR 2:07:57 .. Abdelkader El Mouaziz (Mor) 2:08:00 ... Ondoro Osoro (Ken) 2:08:05 ... Hiroshi Miki (Jpn) 2:08:10 ... Julius Rutto (Ken) 2:08:25 .. Paul Kipsambu (Ken) (20) 2:08:27 Sammy Korir (Ken) 2:08:31 .. Samson Kandie (Ken) 2:08:33 ... Philip Tarus (Ken) 2:08:40 .. Vanderlei de Lima (Bra) . Willy Kalombo (Con) NR 2:08:46 . Muneyuki Ojima (Jpn) 2:08:50 . Martn Fiz (Spa) . Elijah Lagat (Ken) 2:08:59 .. Abdesalem Serrokh (Mor Mike
t-and-f: Gator bite out of crime...
Paul Merca wrote, From the Seattle Times, 4/5/01 Two Florida pole vaulters might finish their Gator careers with track records they'd rather not have. Michael Hissam, a senior, and Brian DaCunha, a sophomore, probably wished they were sprinters when they were caught around 3 a.m. yesterday inside the Gator track concession stand, and police say they weren't there to make a midnight food run . . . On the other hand, whatever the records that may result from their lack of sprinting prowess, that may have been a more noteworthy event for them than vaulting: I don't find Hissam's name on Mirko Jalava's 2000 pole vault world list, which was 553 athletes deep to 5.00 meters. DaCunha ranked 342nd in the world, at 5.10. Cheers?
Re: t-and-f: Record duration
I do realize that 2:08 has been bettered ~50 times, so I guess it depends on your concept of "common." My definition of "common" means not quite world class. If you can run 2:08, you're a world class marathoner and can race with anyone. Donald Mcfarlin wrote: News flash - even in the year 2001, 2:08 is pretty flinkin' fast, and not terribly common.
Re: t-and-f: Fullerton humor
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:43:21 , you wrote: How about "harrier"? If it wasn't for Marc Bloom, I doubt anyone would even know what the term means. Its literal meaning is one who chases hares. But it's not too hard to see how that was stretched to mean cross country runners. Kurt Bray From the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary: Main Entry: 1 harrier Pronunciation: 'har-E-r Function: noun Etymology: irregular from 1 hare Date: 1542 1 : any of a breed of hunting dogs resembling a small foxhound and orig. bred for hunting rabbits 2 : a runner on a cross-country team Main Entry: 2 harrier Function: noun Etymology: alteration of harrower, from 1 harrow Date: 1556 : any of a genus (Circus) of slender hawks having long angled wings and long legs and feeding chiefly on small mammals, reptiles, and insects Main Entry: 3 harrier Function: noun Date: 1596 : one that harries Main Entry: northern harrier Function: noun Date: 1980 : a widely distributed brown or grayish hawk (Circus cyaneus) that inhabits open and marshy regions and has a conspicuous white patch on the rump -- called also marsh hawk RT
Re: t-and-f: Fullerton humor
To answer why basketball players are called cagers, I looked up the answer. Professional basketball began (1896) in New York City and was at one time played on courts enclosed by wire mesh (basketball players are still occasionally referred to as cagers). To my knowledge college hoops didn't have cages, but the name stuck anyway. Allen I'll just ditto on the DGS line. Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:23:10 EDTFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: t-and-f: Fullerton humor- --part1_3b.12c457f2.27fd310e_boundaryContent-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitBasketball player were called cagers.Steve
Re: t-and-f: ATFS annuals
To save the printing cost (but still recompense you for the labor), would it be feasible to create and sell electronic versions of these annuals? After all, most stat freaks end up trying to figure out ways to get the data into their personal databases anyway, through scanning, optical character recognition, and so on. Why not just give it to them in digital format to begin with? RT On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:59:58 +0100, you wrote: I hope I'm not offending the anti-commercial nature of this list (although many other people do it so why should I worry?) but I have been investigating the possibilities of re-printing some of the ATFS annuals (The International Track and Field Annual) which have been out of print for years. I often get people asking for books from the 70's and 80s which are no more but modern technology has moved printing along to the stage where it might be worth re-printing. Basically I don't want orders now, I just need to know if people would be interested. If I get enough to make it worthwhile I can do it. So if interested please let me know which years and I'll get back to you. Randall Northam SportsBooks Ltd. PS: this year's annual is at the printers
t-and-f: Curbless Tracks
Keith Conning brings up the subject of curbless tracks in the public arena, so let's talk about them: Keith seems to indicate to the group that because Wayne Armburst says some tracks are mismeasured so then, a track without a curb has to be mismeasured. I will pass that information on to the engineer gentleman we paid $20,000 to supervise construction on our track and field facility. Further I will pass on the word to Jeb Burgess and the group at Southwest Recreation who charged us over $200,000 to re-do the track this past summer that our facility must be short (or long or ???). Why do we have a track without a curb? Our track was built with $269,000 of money that did not include any from our school district. With the configuration of the old curb and the laying down of the all-weather facility the track surface came level with the old cement curb. We did not have the money to build a track and buy a curb, and it is legal to have a track without a curb (and be a measured 400 meters), so for financial concerns we did that. Our Principal has indicated he will start a fund with Mr. Conning the first donor to build our new track curb, since they did help us refurbish the facility last year at a total cost of $210,000, with the money for the curb again falling short. As for wear on the inner lane line of the track. Our Head Turn Judge at our final Invitational meeting this evening indicated that he would like to apologize to Mr. Conning for the mistakes of his crew in officiating our affair. We do have turn judges and they would like specific instances of violations Mr. Conning has observed. He will consider replacing those officials who make constant errors, as is intimated. In reality, we are a high school of 3500 students, with 2000 students in physical education each day (it is a two -year requirement in California) with most of the PE and athletic classes having the kids run at least a couple of laps per day on the facility. On top of that the facility is open 24 hours a day to joggers, and is a nice option with lights and all as opposed to the street scene after hours. Today, as I left school we had six elementary schools and three middle schools in a meet on the track at a meet. I am inclined to think some of these people may run on the lane line and leave it a bit worn. Mr. Conning cheapens the efforts of the fine athletes who have graced our facility through the years, as well as the officials who keep track of such matters with his inference that (and I quote him) "it is easy to cut off distance around the turns." He indicated in e-mail to me that we should take steps so that the runners will run the full 400 meters each lap in our competition this year. I do not know, and he does not seem to be able to indicate, when this has not happened. There are reasons why there is not a curb, summarized above, with the facility quite legal and officials available to observe lane violations. A simple suggestion among friends like, "Hey, did you ever consider cones around the turn to deal with possible cricitism that people might sneak in a step or two inside the line, " would have been nice. Instead Mr. Conning last year went to some of the record keepers in the sport and suggested that no marks from our site should be considered for record purposes because of the "no curb" situation. He never came to me until today with a suggestion about any cones. We all make choices on our style of communication--- And, oh yes, by the way, Mr. Conning--if you try to find Arcadia HS in Glendora, California you might be a half an hour late for our April 14th competition. Our School is Arcadia HS in Arcadia 15 minutes back on the freeway, with the first Invitational Event Nik Arrhenius of Utah, who has thrown 218 feet this year in the Discus, going after Kamy Keshmiri's National Federation and Meet Record in the event at 224-03, set on our facility in 1987 in the Arcadia Invitational. Despite our problems require some good athletes still come to our meet. Yes, we will have cones around the turn at this year's meet, with the inference that the failure to provide these in the past somehow making the efforts of athletes cheaper, strongly objected to. Some 500 schools and 2000 athletes will grace our facility in two weekends, with our staff willing to accept any and all suggestions to make the situation tops for those great student/athletes. If anyone else would like to help donations for a curb we will add to the fund. Doug Speck Athletic Director - Arcadia HS Former Meet Director - Arcadia Invitational
