Re: t-and-f: RE: T and f Baton Rouge, LA 1987
Dave, No one by that name is listed in Jack Shepard's HS Annual for either 1986 or 1987 in 100 meters. No one from that school is listed either. Andy Ferrara Eisenhower HS Houston, TX Track Team Power Ratings www.hstrack.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: ...Kenyan Marathon Dominance, etc.
Jon and anyone else still interested, Why is this of importance or even interest? How do your studies increase our enjoyment of the sport? Why should we care what the genetic predisposition of Kenyans, East Africans or any other group is? I just don't get it. Do your theories mean we should admire their accomplishments less? After all, they're only doing and succeeding at what they were born to do. Should we pity or despise all others that would be so foolish as to try and compete with them? Every few months you hurrang the list with your rants, accuse nearly every one of not understanding and/or not reading your book and launch a barrage of rebuttals once again covering the same ground. To what end, just explain how this makes track a better sport. Explain to me how I will appreciate the marvelous performances I see and hear about each season even more by buying into your thesis. As long as in the end we are still talking about human beings, homo sapiens, doing all this great running why should I care about the genetics! I have never understood the passion with which you preach this gospel and after the latest round I still don't. Andy F
t-and-f: Re: Tand f - Baton Rouge 1987
Hey I'm doing some research here. Anyone know of a sprinter, Eric Barber went to a Baton Rouge High School in 1986 +87. Ran 100 in 10.39? is that real info High School All-American? Come on guys you're the best at this stuff. Get some info back to me, I'll buy you a beer at the Nationals in Eugene. Best, Ponas
t-and-f: RE: T and f Baton Rouge, LA 1987
Hey I'm doing some research here. Anyone know of a sprinter, Eric Barber went to a Baton Rouge High School in 1986 +87. Ran 100 in 10.39? is that real info High School All-American? Come on guys you're the best at this stuff. May need Mike Corn or Pete Abbey on this one. Get some info back to me, I'll buy you a beer at the Nationals in Eugene. Best, Ponas
Re: t-and-f: ...Kenyan Marathon Dominance, etc.
Rich: It would be helpful if, before writing such things, you: A) read my book B) learn more about genetics. I do not "represent the nature side of the debate" as you write. I represent only one side of the debate: open discourse on the issue. Therefore I oppose all extremists, particularly the genetic determinists AND the environmental determinists ( the "nurture" side of the debate). Moreover, THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF NATURE AND NURTURE. All genetically-based phenotypes are the result of some environmental, social, cultural or other factor. Why do Africans have less natural body fat? Because they had to survive in warmer climates. Those who did survive were leaner. They passed on their genes to others. The fact gened people died out and the leaner population prospered. Why do only ten percent of those who have the sickle cell allele get sickle cell? Because of the complex interaction of the proteins in those genes with any number of enviromental factors. The nature/nurture "dispute" is a fiction of non-scientists, a legacy of our prior lack of understanding of how genes actually work. As for the Asian issue, ON AVERAGE, East Asians do not have the muscle fiber type or body type to be great jumpers or sprinters, though there are certainly exceptions as the result of natural human variation. But they do have a great body type for endurance running (and activities requiring body type flexibility and fast reaction time). NO ONE CLAIMS THAT EAST AFRICANS AND ASIANS HAVE THE SAME BODY TYPE, ON AVERAGE. THEY SHARE SOME CHARACTERISTICS --DIMUNITIVE SIZE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS AN AID IN LONG DISTANCE RUNNING -- but diverge in other areas -- there is more than one way to skin this anatomical cat (bad metaphor, I know). While 15 percent of top marathon times are held by East Asians, East Asians are UNREPRESENTED IN THE MIDDLE DISTANCES--a combination of a host of physiological and anatomical differences with East Africans. One great benefit for East Asians in the longer distances is their greater relatively higher levels of natural body fat--particularly at the longest distances, such as ultra-marathons. I think if you read my book, you would realize it is ALL out of the box thinking. BTW, the "myth" that all Kenyans train "hard" is just that -- a myth. ANYONE who has been to Kenya for any extended period of time knows that the training regimens of Kenyans is JUST as varied as it is for everyone else. Some train relatively little. Some train enormous distances. Some train hard at altitude but do not do much mileage. Salazar and Kennedy frankly DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. They are just engaging in a little self-loathing for not being able to keep up with those who, frankly, are built to run as good as or better than all but a few people in the world. Cheers! On 4/24/01 6:09 PM, "Rich Harrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mr. Entine is in denial of the fact that there are intangible factors here > that he can't measure. > > If anyone is familiar with the nature vs. nurture concept in sociology, Mr. > Entine represents the "nature" side of this debate. You'll never change his > mind, because it is frustrated by most concepts that aren't quantifiable. > > Japanese and Korean runners debunk much of what Jon states. It seems that > they possess discipline unfathomable to many westerners (just like our > friends from Africa seem to). > Also, look at the physique of the elite Asian marathoners. Very different > from Kenyans, Ethiopians and Moroccans. They are not born at altitude > either. > > I seem to remember, either Bob Kennedy or Alberto Salazar, stating that most > Americans and Europeans can't imagine training as hard as the Kenyans do, or > don't realize that they need to train that hard. I'd be willing to bet that > far fewer western athletes train at the level that the number of Kenyans do. > Another factor Mr. Entine doesn't seem to take into account. > > I don't discount everything you say Jon, but the difference in the > amount/type of work done, and the mindsets involved, is probably greater > than the differences in physiology. Think a little more outside of the box. > > Rich > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jon Entine > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:10 PM > To: alan tobin; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Re: London Marathon...Kenyan Marathon Dominance? > > > On 4/23/01 9:46 AM, "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> What is interesting is that in both Boston and London an American or Brit >> was 6th. I do believe Cox would have been top 5 at Boston if it wasn't for >> the cramp in his side. What does Jon have to say about South African >> runners? > > According to gene studies, such as Cavalli-Sforza's "The History and > Geograpy of Genes," South African blacks (by and large) trace much of their > ancestry to East Africa. > >> Of course I haven't read your book Jon. I already know wh
Re: t-and-f: Ritzenhein going for 5000 record on Friday
In a message dated 4/24/01 1:09:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Good luck to Ritz and to listmember Dan Wilson Dan, don't give the kid any stripper URLs, at least not til after he runs, OK? Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Elite expectations
The only point I wished to make was that 3:52 at age 18 seems to be a reasonable progression for somebody with eventual world record aspirations- (on TODAY's WR scale, not a 30-year old WR) we shouldn't discourage somebody like that with scare tactics that 'they're burning themselves out' and that kind of talk- we should encourage them. 4:03 is super for some, for others it ought to be a disappointing time. It's a mind-set thing. I've never heard of anybody telling the Kenyan teenagers that they're progressing 'too fast'. Elite training results in elite performances. RT
t-and-f: Jones believes she can break record
An interesting story from cnnsi.com... it says Jones will run the 4x4 at Penn this weekend and **will* be doing the 100m at WC's this yr. (Earlier it had been reported that she'd be trying for the events the she hadn't won world titles in -- the duece and LJ) --Kebba == from cnnsi.com Triple Olympic gold medallist Marion Jones expects to push closer to Florence Griffith Joyner's 100-meter women's world record during her upcoming outdoor season. "I'm getting tired of those 10.8s and 10.7s," Jones told Reuters in a telephone interview from Los Angeles on Monday. "I touched on 10.6 last year in Stockholm with a 2.1 (an aiding wind of 2.1 meters per second) and it felt great. "Now I think it's time I get more consistent with it," said the Olympic champion, whose career-best in the event is 10.65 seconds in 1998. "That is going to lead, sooner or later, to the 10.5s and our ultimate goal of 10.48, if not faster." _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: t-and-f: rotterdam ?
I've only seen top 3 results for the women: 1 Susan Chepkemei KEN 2:25:45 2 Masako Koide JPN 2:28:28 3 Nadja Wijenberg NED 2:30:27 Regards - GT -Original Message- From: Andy M¸hlbach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2001 8:52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: rotterdam ? hi need results rotterdam marathon women there is nothing on the homepage can someone else help ? regards andy Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and any attached files may be confidential information, and may also be the subject of legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is unauthorised. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments.
t-and-f: rotterdam ?
hi need results rotterdam marathon women there is nothing on the homepage can someone else help ? regards andy
t-and-f: NB Boston High-Performance Series (aka, the Series formerly known as the NU Twilites)
Forwarded for Adam Chesler, who's no longer on the listserves Send all inquires to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Begin Forwarded Message Date:04/24 12:44 Received:04/24 16:44 From:Adam Chesler, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Boston High-Performance Series (known in past years as the Northeastern University Twilight Series, and the Metrowest Twilight Series) will move in 2001 to new location. The meets are sponsored by New Balance. The move from Northeastern Universityís Solomon Track is based on logistical and financial considerations. The cost of using NUís track has become prohibitive, and meet organizers want to put all funds collected through sponsorships and entry fees back into the Series: for instance, for the first time, prize money will be issued (see below). We are working on providing rabbits for most sections of all events. Volunteers are welcome and should indicate their interest by contacting us via the e-mail address provided for entries (see ENTRIES, below). Here is some preliminary information about the meets, including dates, event lists, standards, prize money, and housing (not all details are available at this time, but theyíll be covered in future messages). NAME Boston High-Performance Series SPONSOR New Balance VENUE To be announced DATES May 19, May 26, June 2, June 9. SCHEDULE Open sections will start promptly at 5:30. Note: the mile will be contested in the open sections instead of the 1500, and will be held at all four meets; otherwise, the open sections will include the same events as the elite sections. Elite sections will start promptly at 7:00. Women will run before men, and sections will be run fastest to slowest. The precise order of events will be announced when heat sheets are posted (see below). EVENTS May 19: 800, 3000 May 26: 800, 1500, 5000 (women only) June 2: 800, 1500, 5000 (men only) June 9: 800, 1500, 3000 STANDARDS (imposed on elite sections only): 800 (m): 1:53 800 (w): 2:12 1500 (m): 3:52 1500 (w): 4:35 3000 (m): 8:30 3000 (w): 940 5000 (m): 14:305000 (w): 17:20 10,000 (m): 29:45* 10,000 (w): 36:00* *At this time, no 10Ks are scheduled, but this may change, particularly if there is enough interest. If 10Ks are indeed to take place, theyíll be announced as far in advance as is possible. See ENTRIES (below) for contact information. Note: Sprint events may be scheduled (as open sections, to start before 7:00). Interested competitors/coaches must pull together all fields and inform the meet organizers in advance. See ENTRIES (below) for contact information. Note that no steeplechases will take place at these meets in 2001, as the facilities under consideration are not equipped with a water jump. PRIZES Prize money will go 8 deep (men and women combined). Scoring is based on the IAAF performance tables, with points assigned for each performance, with highest cumulative total winning (when two or more athletes are tied, best single performance will be the tie-breaker; after that, monies will be split evenly). To be eligible for prize money, athletes must compete in at least 3 different meets (including the first two Can-Am meets; preliminary information about these meets is below), in 2 different events (eg, two 1500s and one 800). First: $1200.00Fifth: $400.00 Second: $700.00Sixth: $300.00 Third: $600.00 Seventh: $200.00 Fourth: $500.00Eighth: $100.00 ENTRIES All entries must be sent BY E-MAIL to [EMAIL PROTECTED], by 6:00 on the Thursday evening immediately prior to the meet in which you wish to participate. Please include the following information: Name, Affiliation, Telephone Number, E-Mail Address, Event(s), Seed Time(s) Be prepared to provide proof of performance. Event co-ordinators review meet results all year long, and we WILL contact entrants to confirm questionable times. Heat sheets will be posted on Friday nights. Once again, note that all entries must be received by 6:00pm Thursday. No phone calls, please. The entry fee is $7.00 per athlete, regardless of the number of events in which you wish to participate. You may pay when you pick up your number at the meet. HOUSING/MEET TRANSPORTATION Information to follow. We are working on securing room blocks at local hotels for athletes/coaches coming from out-of-town; we are also trying to arrange to have at least one shuttle to and from the meet, which will depart from/return to a central location. WEB SITE Information included in this message (as well as in future messages), heat sheets, and results will be posted on the web; the URL will be available shortly. MEET ORGANIZATION Meet Director: Greg Demeo Assistant Meet Director: Mike Nary Entries: Kathy Nary Communications: Adam Chesler, Mike Scott Results/Accommodations: Ka
RE: t-and-f: Re: London Marathon...Kenyan Marathon Dominance?
After my previous post on demographics, I checked the stats on USA births. The number peaked at 4.3 million in 1957, then dropped until 1975 when it hit bottom at about 3 million. Since then the echo boomers have brought the number up to about 4 million again. The bottom line is that there are a lot of 44 year olds around now, and not many 26 year olds. But I agree that the other factors mentioned have also played a role. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: "Harry Welten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 24, 2001 12:47:14 PM GMT Subject: t-and-f: Re: London Marathon...Kenyan Marathon Dominance? IMHO, the dept of major marathons like Boston just below the top has decreased due to many reasons. Some that come to mind are: 1 - The previously mentioned change of Culture/Lifestyle/Interest in running at the grass roots has decreased the numbers, decreasing potential numbers at the elite level. 2 - With the advent of prize money, many 2:15 to 2:25 types run in lower profile races where they have a better chance of winning. Prior to the mid 80's prize money was scarce to non-existant, and people competed for the competition first. 3 - The second running boom is more geared towards participation than competition. During the first running boom, more was better. Today less is better (According to magazines like RW, and programs like those of Galloway). Heck all over the country runners in their 40's (Late blooming first running boom runners) are scoring very high in many races. I am sure there are lots of other reasons. .Harry Tom Derderian wrote: Boston 1981, Winning times were similar, But back in 50th place Matsuo of Japan went 2:18:45. The last sub 2:20 was Gerry Deegan of Ireland in 64th. The last sub 2:20 this year was Mark Coogan in 19th place. But in 1981 I considered myself in bad shape and only participated in the race with a 2:26:46 in 191st place too far back among Americas to count or even score on the Greater Boston team. That time in 2001 would have been about what Danny Reed ran for 35th place overall and 7th American. Those are the numbers. That difference IS cultural. The interesting question is why. Harry Welten, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ESN 395-4943 / 613-765-4943.
Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC
Having served as a meet director, as a club coordinator and as a clerk, I'd ask all three to cut each other some slack. Mistakes are usual unintentional in the heat of battle and all of you make critical contributions to the sport. And I look forward to the year I can get out to Mt. Sac after tax season to see Scott's meet. P.S. I'll be one of the green hats in the Penn paddock although I may not have time to do more than say hello if you're passing by this weekend. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 24, 2001 3:46:58 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC People who run meets are NOT necessarlity ignorant of clubs. As I pointed out to Tom in an earlier post, we had massive computer problems over the weekend, including the mainframe on campus going down for part of Sat and most of Sun. This is why we could not get anything up on the web. I am all too familiar with both the GBTC and UCTC; all people were entered properly on the computers. But during the meltdown periods, UNAT was substituted by the clerks when the entries came up blank. That would not have happened had I been clerking but I can't do it all. I had to run the meet the field. Sorry for any confusion; I will do my best to straighten out the final results. I wish some of you would cut me some slack. We do the very best we can with incredibly limited resources. I apologize for any mistakes but they are never made intentionally. Scott Davis - Director
t-and-f: Track Calculator
Netters, Have you ever been frustrated by having to use the outer lanes of the local high school or college track for your distance interval workouts. You know what you want to do in Lane 1 but are not sure how to adapt your plan to the outer lanes. You could give up on using the track, you could bully your way onto Lane 1, OR you could use the Track Calculator developed by Phil Howell of the North American Racewalking Foundation to help design your workout. The calculator will allow you to: Convert distance to laps - How may laps must I complete to cover 5 miles in Lane 8? Convert laps to distance - How far did I go if I just completed 12 1/2 laps in Lane 3? Convert pace to lap time - What lap time in Lane 5 equates to a 4-minute/kilometer pace? Convert lap time to pace - What was my mile/kilometer pace if my lap time in Lane 1 was 1:35? Compare lane lap times - How do lap times vary by lane if moving at the same mile pace? There is also a calculator for road courses that will allow you to: Convert distance to laps - How may loops must I complete to cover 5 miles? Convert laps to distance - How many miles did I go if I just completed 7 loops? Convert pace to lap time - What loop time equates to a 6-minute-per-kilometer pace? Convert lap time to pace - What was my mile/kilometer pace if my loop time was 7:35? Convert pace to race time Convert race time to pace - What was my mile pace if I completed a marathon in 4:17:23? Give them a try, they're pretty neat! Go to: http://members.aol.com/RWNARF/atrack.htm for the track calculator and http://members.aol.com/RWNARF/ac-road.htm for the road course calculator I also plan to link them to my site under Special Links at the bottom of my Home Page. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Ritzenhein going for 5000 record on Friday
Ed & Dana Parrot wrote: > > Dathan Ritzenhein will be going after the 5000 meters national high school > > record of 13:44.0 (Gerry Lindgren, 1964) at the Penn Relays on Friday > > evening. He'll be running in the Olympic Development event so there'll be > > plenty of fast folks in front of him; partial lineup from PR website > below. > > 18 Dan Wilson unattached > > 19 Dathan Ritzenheim North Kent RC > > Good luck to Ritz and to listmember Dan Wilson > > - Ed Parrot Also listmember Buck Jones 24 Carleton Jones Club Northwest -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: Marathon falloff: What about the women?
There is certainly a cultural part to the change in composition in the elite marathoners. Everyone has concentrated on the men, but what about the women? In 1984, the first year of the Olympic marathon for women, the top runners were all westerners (primarily European - save for the Olympic champion).Now there are some African runners hitting the top - but very, very few westerners approaching the times of Joan Benoit, Ingrid Kristiansen, Grete Waitz, Rosa Mota... I recently re-read Joan Benoit's autobiography. Her training made me feel tired just reading it. For those not familiar, Benoit's fastest times in high school (age 18) were 5:15 for the mile (roughly 4:57 for 1500) and 2:22 for the 1/2-mile (2:21 for the 800). She thought these were very good times, she was state champ. - best distance runner in New England, etc. etc... Then, when she got out of high school and started competing at a higher level, she realized that she had to really step it up. 4 years later, she'd run 4:24.8 for 1500, sub-16:00 for 5000, and won the Boston Marathon. She was running 80-90 miles per week at a reasonably high intensity. Many people would have stopped there, but Benoit continued going farther, faster, seeking out intelligent advice. She was trying to improve at the 1500 (since it was the longest event for women pre-1984 in the Olympics) - but knew she didn't have the raw speed for it. I believe she peaked around 4:16 for 1500. Once they announced the marathon, it was a no-brainer. As we know, she went on to run times that the best women in the U.S. would love to have, and most of the women in the world would love to have. Benoit's best 3000 was 8:53; a lot of women can run that - but how many can run a 2:21 marathon? Very few! Why? I'm convinced that a great part of it is that Benoit was doing training that very, very, few women are willing to do today. With all the discussion on the men - I wanted to add a viewpoint of a man who's read up on women's training. Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Mt. Sac & Scott Davis
Everyone who likes track should not only cut him some slack but get down on his/her hands and knees and thank Scott, not only for his work at Mt Sac but his generous help at every meet he attends. Without him, this sport would stick another toe in the grave. Philip Hersh Olympic Sports Writer Chicago Tribune
Re: t-and-f: Ritzenhein going for 5000 record on Friday
> Dathan Ritzenhein will be going after the 5000 meters national high school > record of 13:44.0 (Gerry Lindgren, 1964) at the Penn Relays on Friday > evening. He'll be running in the Olympic Development event so there'll be > plenty of fast folks in front of him; partial lineup from PR website below. > 18 Dan Wilson unattached > 19 Dathan Ritzenheim North Kent RC Good luck to Ritz and to listmember Dan Wilson - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC
I dare say that most of the people doing the bellyaching about results have never run a major (or even minor) meet in their lives. I have run Conference and dual meets and the best you can hope for is no complaints. Most of us would keep over with a heart attack (no pun intended Scott) if we actually got a compliment. I think that if the meet itself runs well then your #1 priority has been met. With regard to the internet: Hey folks, you can't do what your server cannot do-it's not as simple as sending an email-you have to upload files onto the server and format them and create links etc. When the server is working well then life is a breeze, when it's not, there aint squat you can do about it. As advanced as the internet is, it does still have it's limitations. You'd be surprised at how much work a meet is, and you can probably multiply that by about 5 or 6 when you talk about a meet the caliber of Mt. SAC or the Pre Meet. Nice job Scott!
Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC
Ah hah ... I was wondering why I couldn't get any results during the meet ... Didn't want to complain and glad I didn't ... Was actually tough waiting til the end of the meet since I have beome accustomed to "real time" results ... Just shows how "spoiled" we have gotten with internet access ... I remember the days when I had to wait days for the results to be printed in a newspaper ... And often had to get a copy of hte LA Times at that in order to get those ... :o) Conway - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC People who run meets are NOT necessarlity ignorant of clubs. As I pointedout to Tom in an earlier post, we had massive computer problems over theweekend, including the mainframe on campus going down for part of Sat andmost of Sun. This is why we could not get anything up on the web. I am alltoo familiar with both the GBTC and UCTC; all people were entered properly onthe computers. But during the meltdown periods, UNAT was substituted by theclerks when the entries came up blank. That would not have happened had Ibeen clerking but I can't do it all. I had to run the meet the field. Sorryfor any confusion; I will do my best to straighten out the final results. Iwish some of you would cut me some slack. We do the very best we can withincredibly limited resources. I apologize for any mistakes but they arenever made intentionally.Scott Davis - Director Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Ritzenhein going for 5000 record on Friday
Dathan Ritzenhein will be going after the 5000 meters national high school record of 13:44.0 (Gerry Lindgren, 1964) at the Penn Relays on Friday evening. He'll be running in the Olympic Development event so there'll be plenty of fast folks in front of him; partial lineup from PR website below. Webb is supposed to be running in the HS 4 x 800 and 1600m leg of distance medley. Men's 5,000m Run (Event 164) 1 Mark Carroll Nike 2 Johnson Muiruri World Champions 3 Thomas Omwenga Elite Sports Management 4 Andre Williams Georgetown Running Co. 5 Peter Sherry New York AC 6 Julius Nderitu World Champions 7 Matt Kerr unattached 8 Musa Gwanzura Aztecas 9 Brian Clas New York AC 10 Patrick Nthiwa World Champions 11 David Galvan Maryland Elite TC 12 Chan Pons unattached 13 Matt Kane Elite Athletes Network 14 Vinny Mulvey unattached 15 Peter Riley unattached 16 Matthew Folk unattached 17 Eric Bonnette unattached 18 Dan Wilson unattached 19 Dathan Ritzenheim North Kent RC 20 Ricardo Santos New York AC 21 Ryan Demers unattached 22 Darrell General D.C. Capitol TC 23 Benjamen Noad Boston Athletic Assoc. 24 Carleton Jones Club Northwest 25 Ramon Serratos Westchester Puma TC Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC
People who run meets are NOT necessarlity ignorant of clubs. As I pointed out to Tom in an earlier post, we had massive computer problems over the weekend, including the mainframe on campus going down for part of Sat and most of Sun. This is why we could not get anything up on the web. I am all too familiar with both the GBTC and UCTC; all people were entered properly on the computers. But during the meltdown periods, UNAT was substituted by the clerks when the entries came up blank. That would not have happened had I been clerking but I can't do it all. I had to run the meet the field. Sorry for any confusion; I will do my best to straighten out the final results. I wish some of you would cut me some slack. We do the very best we can with incredibly limited resources. I apologize for any mistakes but they are never made intentionally. Scott Davis - Director
t-and-f: measurement of a HS record
Is there anything special that has to happen when measuring a potential Nat. HS record in a throwing event? do you need a steel tape etc? My undertanding is that the international javelin records are separate from the high school javelin records since the implement is different. Kendra Wecker of Marysville Kansas established the record last summer at 174' 4". She thru 174' last night at a high school meet and it became apparent that this situation had never happened to any of us before and we wanted to make sure we didn't screw it up. Kendra is using only the international javelin this year even though it is not mandatory until next year. phil weishaar chapman kansas
Re: t-and-f: Mt. SAC chatter
Have not had a chance to see Tyree yet this year, but have watched his results over the past few weeks ... Read in TFN that he is now working with Jim Bush and that Bush said that Tyree is the most talented athlete he has coached ... If that is true and Tyree is "serious" Then we could be in for something special .. Bush's last protege ran 43.50 !!! And Tyree has both the strength and speedto do that and more ... And with the Harrisons looking ot be on the verge of sub 44 perhaps we are losing nothing with MJ retiring and actually might be gaining ... Which would be ironic since the last time we had 3 guys running sub 44 at the same time was just before MJ broke on the scene and it appears we may be headed there again as he leaves it ... Just ell me that Tyree isn't still wearing that head band !!! :o) Conway > Robert wrote: 400: I saw Tyree run a WL time last week at the UCLA-Nebraska meet, and Igot to see him do it again (44.47) this week. I thought the Harrison twinswere the heirs apparent to MJ, but Tyree looks ready to contest for thethrone. He's looking scary running solo (Al-Bishi 2nd again this week in45.64) this early in the season.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: featured athletes at Mt SAC,
Yep, true enough---American records in both Men's and Women's mile walks. Michele Rohl and Curt Clausen. Two fairly decent names in the sport of race walkingalso, Mike Rohl with a master's record in Clausen's race. Scott
Re: t-and-f: promo of Mt. SAC
> I am mad at Mt SAC too. (or the results program) The Greater Boston Track > Club sent athletes to the meet at considerable effort and expense. I find > their names in the results but no affiliation. Only unattached. It seemed > only colleges were listed. Not clubs. There is a lack of post collegiate > incentive. What is the old adage, "if a tree runs in the woods and its > affiliation is not listed in the results nobody made any noise" ? > Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club The same thing happens frequently with the University of Chicago Track Club (UCTC isn't too hard to spell and is shorter that "unattached" -- just like GBTC). I think the problem is that the people who run meets are only familiar with schools, and if the athlete isn't in school, they must be unattached -- despite some funny initials they may put on the entry form. Club track in the US has fallen so low in numbers that it gets forgotten about even by people who are supposed to know about the sport. (Clubs can't afford a publicity guy like the shoe companies can to make absolutely sure that affiliations are recorded.) As Tom said, this handicaps the small post collegiate effort even further. Pat Palmer
RE: t-and-f: Elite expectations
<<< So split the difference and say 3:52 should be a realistic target for today's best American high schoolers. Unrealistic? Burnout territory? Well how's this observation: shouldn't 3:52 be a good target for somebody who hopes to match the American record by the end of his college years, and the World record before he retires? If you can't get into 3:52 territory by age 18, you're probably never gonna set a world mile record. >>> Lots of men have set the mile or 1500m WR over the last 30 years without running 3:52 at 18. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe Steve Cram has the world age-17 record at 3:57.08. He was a pretty fair Miler ... no? What does Hall having an "off" day have to do with much of anything? Should these young men only pursue running if they are ultimately capable of WR's? NOT. Last year the U.S. had at least 20 HS boys under 4:10y or 9:00y. Among them were a bunch of 17-year-olds ... Hall, Ritz, Webb and Schnieder (and more!). They are doing just fine. Not everyone has to set a WR to be successful.
t-and-f: Re: London Marathon...Kenyan Marathon Dominance?
Title: Re: London Marathon...Kenyan Marathon Dominance? IMHO, the dept of major marathons like Boston just below the top has decreased due to many reasons. Some that come to mind are: 1 - The previously mentioned change of Culture/Lifestyle/Interest in running at the grass roots has decreased the numbers, decreasing potential numbers at the elite level. 2 - With the advent of prize money, many 2:15 to 2:25 types run in lower profile races where they have a better chance of winning. Prior to the mid 80's prize money was scarce to non-existant, and people competed for the competition first. 3 - The second running boom is more geared towards participation than competition. During the first running boom, more was better. Today less is better (According to magazines like RW, and programs like those of Galloway). Heck all over the country runners in their 40's (Late blooming first running boom runners) are scoring very high in many races. I am sure there are lots of other reasons. Harry Tom Derderian wrote: Boston 1981, Winning times were similar, But back in 50th place Matsuo of Japan went 2:18:45. The last sub 2:20 was Gerry Deegan of Ireland in 64th. The last sub 2:20 this year was Mark Coogan in 19th place. But in 1981 I considered myself in bad shape and only participated in the race with a 2:26:46 in 191st place too far back among Americas to count or even score on the Greater Boston team. That time in 2001 would have been about what Danny Reed ran for 35th place overall and 7th American. Those are the numbers. That difference IS cultural. The interesting question is why. ...Harry Welten, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ESN 395-4943 / 613-765-4943.
Re: t-and-f: Mt. SAC chatter
I believe Tarasov opened at 5.90 (19-4 1/4) once two years ago when he jumped 5.90+ in like 18 of 20 competitions. Not too sure though. When was the last time 3 Americans jumped over 19-feet in the same competition? s.devereaux Margaret & Robert Tatar wrote: > PV: LoJo opened at 19-03/4 -- and cleared on his first attempt. Two other > Americans (Mack & Buller) over as well, but LoJo wins on misses. LoJo took > three shots at 19-6; none were particularly close. Also, I thought I heard > the announcer say that 19-03/4 was the highest opening height ever > (U.S.? World?) cleared in a PV competition. True?
