t-and-f: World Rankings By Nation
New posting now available at the TFN website (www.trackandfieldnews.com): for each men's event a by-nation listing of everybody who has ever made the U.S. Rankings. Includes complete scoring by nation and a listing of not only the top-scoring nation each year (since '47) but also a breakdown of U.S. scoring for every year. It's really intersting to see the ebb and flow of power.
RE: t-and-f: ncaa track champs and eugene-area suggestions
I have an informal guide, as well. :-) malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Geoff Thurner Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 1:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: ncaa track champs and eugene-area suggestions for those traveling to eugene for the ncaa champs and who want suggestions on places to check out (food, drink, places to run, misc.) -- e-mail me and i'll forward an informal guide also, we're taking down our link for the 'win ncaa tickets' off our web site tonight, so go to www.goducks.com to register if you haven't already... i'll be posting information to the web site periodically in the days leading up to the ncaa champs (although i've been warned that heat sheets won't be done until tuesday morning at the earliest) thanks, g Geoff Thurner Assistant Director/Publications Coordinator University of Oregon Media Services - Athletics Len Casanova Center 2727 Leo Harris Parkway Eugene, OR 97401 Phone: (541) 346-2250 Fax: (541) 346-5449 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.goducks.com GO DUCKS!! - GO DUCKS!! - GO DUCKS!!
t-and-f: Travis Landreth - Dedication
I haven't said much on these lists for a long time. My lists are becoming out of date, with many updates still pending. This is what happens when you finish up your degree and work in a start up company. But finally, I have made a major update to my web pages. This is an important one, so please check it out. http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/xc.html Because Travis Landreth epitomizes the best in high school distance running, and what a good high school runner can become in college I have rededicated my pages in his memory. And if you get this today, its not too late to particpate in the Travis Trail run tomorrow. http://xenia.unh.edu/wcrc/travapp.htm Patrick E. Hoffman, Sc.D Anvil Informatics http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffmanAnalysis and Visualization of Information X-Country, Running Analysis600 Suffolk St. Lowell, MA 01854 Best Web track calculator [EMAIL PROTECTED] All time HS lists X-Radviz and other MDMV Visualizations
t-and-f: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA Div I Championships
The American Distance Club will present its spring seminar in conjunction with the NCAA Division I Track and Field Championships, at the University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon on Thursday, May 31st, from 9:30am-11:00am in the Cascade Room at the RED LION (205 Coburg Rd, Eugene, OR Hotel phone: (541)342-5201). The presenters will be Alan Drosky of Georgia Tech and Jeff Pigg of Illinois State University. The topic is Middle Distance / 800m Racing and Training. The session is open and free to all paid ADC members [Club membership can be gained and fees ($100.00) can be paid at the door] Andrew Gerard Head Men's Track and Field Coach College of William and Mary
t-and-f: Cal-Neva Mile
For Immediate Release May 24, 2001 Club Cal Neva*Virginian 5K and Elite Mile to Benefit UNR Women's Track Team and Silver State Striders Reno, Nevada -- The 3rd annual Club Cal Neva 5,000 Meters Elite Mile, a pair of point-to-point races that finish in downtown Reno, will be held Saturday, June 16th. Racers will be vying for more than $8,000 in prize money. Proceeds will benefit the UNR Women's Track Team and the Silver State Striders, both non-profit organizations. Phillimon Hanneck, the first man to ever break 4 minutes for the mile in the State of Nevada (under any circumstance), will be back to defend his title. Last year, Hanneck became the first man to break the magical 4-minute barrier in Nevada when he completed the 1 mile course in 3:55.1 and earned $1,000 plus a $1,000 bonus for breaking 4 minutes. He will need to run faster this year if he plans on earning the $1,000 bonus. Defending women's champion in the Elite Mile, Lyudmila Vasilyeva, will be back to defend her crown. The Russian native will be aiming for the $1,000 prize awarded to the first-place women's winner. Both the men's and women's winners in the Mile will also receive a $1,000 bonus if a new course record is established. New this year is the 5K Run, Fun Run, Walk, and Fun Walk which start at College Drive and North Virginia with a scenic loop through the University of Nevada campus. The race starts at 8am and finishes in front of the Club Cal Neva*Virginian. The Elite Mile race is run on a USATF-certified course that includes a 67-foot drop in elevation. It starts at 9:30am at College Drive and North Virginia, passes under the Reno Arch, and finishes in front of the Club Cal Neva. The event is open to runners and walkers of all ages. The cost for pre-entry (by 5/31/01) is $15 for adults and $10 for children 18 and under. The entry cost thereafter is $20. For registration information, call 775-746-4540 or email Ray Cook at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registration is available on race day at the start area on College Drive and North Virginia. T-shirts are guaranteed for pre-registered entrants only. Contact: Ray Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] (775) 746-4540
t-and-f: Still more Bailey
I'm away from the office this week-end and using a dial-up so this is a very slow and expensive process but definitely worth the entertainment value. This is going to the US list. The reaction should be interesting. I've established myself as the best sprinter in history -- far beyond any other Canadian -- and only one man has gotten past me. More at: http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?f=/stories/20010526/574699.html Regards, Martin
t-and-f: How much talent/genetics do you need?
I have always wondered where we draw the line on talent. You could argue that Bill Rodgers who only ran in the 4:30, 9:36 range in high school didn't have a whole lot of talent. You could also point to many others who ran comparable high school times yet went on to win many elite races. You could say that their talent didn't show through because of the lack in training, but wouldn't talent show through despite training? I would have to agree with something that Malmo has pointed to over and over again. The faster you run the more talented to become. So, I'll stick with my statement that you can still win many elite races while not being at the top of the talent scale with loads and loads of hard consistant training because there have been those whose talent did not show through in high school but got more talented as time went on. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Re: How much talent/genetics do you need?
One problem with this thesis: you assume that if ones talent is slow to emerge except with hard training equates with not being at the top of the talent scale. That's a huge assumption, not testable, and therefore specious. The very definition of talent is that it is there. I believe you confuse innate capacity with innate ability. There is NO SUCH THING AS INNATE ABILITY. Those who emerge through hard work have innate ability, which they unlocked through hard work (understanding that tapping talent is different with different people and body types). Without such innate capacity, all the hard work in the world would come to naught. No matter how hard Donovan Bailey may train, he will NEVER become an elite marathoner. Never. Ever. On 5/26/01 3:43 PM, alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have always wondered where we draw the line on talent. You could argue that Bill Rodgers who only ran in the 4:30, 9:36 range in high school didn't have a whole lot of talent. You could also point to many others who ran comparable high school times yet went on to win many elite races. You could say that their talent didn't show through because of the lack in training, but wouldn't talent show through despite training? I would have to agree with something that Malmo has pointed to over and over again. The faster you run the more talented to become. So, I'll stick with my statement that you can still win many elite races while not being at the top of the talent scale with loads and loads of hard consistant training because there have been those whose talent did not show through in high school but got more talented as time went on. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
t-and-f: Costas Gatsioudis at 91,27 m.
Costas Gatsioudis improved his own world leading mark to 91,27 m. today in Madrid, participating in the European Champions Clubs Cup. Gatsioudis attempted only once. Meanwhile Alexandros Papadimitriou (hammer throw) was the best of the first day of the Greek Spring Championships, as he won with 79, 24 m. The junior shot putter Michalis Stamatogiannis was the star of the 4-Nation Meeting (Greece, Cyprus, Israel, Scotland), held in Korinthos, Greece, as he threw17, 42 m. The National juniors women team equalled the national junior record for Greece with 46" 49. All the results are at http://www.athletix.net Michalis Nikitaridis
t-and-f: Re: How much talent/genetics do you need?
Interesting Jon. I'll give you one thing, you sure do make people think and bring up interesting conversations. You bring up something interesting. Just how testable is talent/genetics? If a high school runner runs extremely well off of limited training (Kennedy) one would assume that runner is blessed with talent. But, if a high school runner does not run extremely well in high school but goes on to bigger and better things even after taking a significant amount of time off (Rodgers) you would have us believe that the reason his talent surfaced is because of genetics. What would make more sense is that his training over the years is the reason why he could take time off, then come back very strong, even stronger than before. So by your account someone who runs relatively mediocre in high school then goes on to be a very good runner becomes a very good runner because his genetic talent took longer to show itself. But, by the time his genetic talent showed itself the runner would have already put in years of training, training that affects his ability to perform well. How then are we to know that his sudden rise in performance after years of somewhat mediocrity are because of his talent or his training? You can test elite distance runners and you'll find that they are skinny, have a high % of slow twitch fibers, have a high Vo2max, and have this that and the other, but how are we to know that this is mostly from genetics and not from hard work and training? The only true way to test genetic potential would be to test distance runners in high school before they begin any training because any training at all will affect what talent they show. I still agree with you that you need some genetic talent, a sprinter with a high % of fast twitch fibers will not become a good distance runenr, but am not convinced that you need a lot of it to become successful and win a lot of elite races and make a decent living and standing in the elite community. I will agree with you that the best of the best need everything, including genetic talent. But, there have been many runners who have went on to perform extremely well after having relatively mediocre performances in high school and college. You can not say that the genetic talent of these runners was slow to emerge because the training they have done over the years has already affected them and improved them so how can we prove it was the emerging genetic talent or the hard work and training? Test them? But, testing would show the affects of training. I think the main thing genetic talent does is shorten the time needed to become a very good runner. Some only require a couple years to become very good, while others may wait an entire career before they reach the same level. Same level, different timespan in reaching it. Just food for thought. Interesting conversations Jon. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Freeman, still on top of the world
The Electronic Telegraph Sunday 27 May 2001 Sue Mott THE socio-political revolutionary couldn't make up her mind about breakfast. Oatmeal? she said, eventually. And honey and cream? she added interrogatively, as though it might not be allowed. Che Guevara was never like this, surely. Nor so radiant with unselfconscious bonhomie, swinging a plastic bag with a vivid cat motif over one shoulder, eyes smiling through lashes of Disney proportions. I like cats, she explained, catching the drift of my gaze. I think I'm a cross between a wildcat and a child. Golden Girl: Cathy Freeman poses with Sir Steven Redgrave at this week's Laureus Awards in Monte Carlo So Cathy Freeman, obligingly, summed herself up. And sporting history could do no more than concur. Without the wildcat, she could never have found the predatory energy to deliver one of the most monumental performance seen at the Olympics in the final of the women's 400 metres. Without the child, she would never have found moments of innocent refuge from the mounting of such torrential pressure which would have torn apart a lesser being. Aboriginal pride, patriotic duty and ethnic advancement were thrust into the athletic argument between eight girls on a running track. Win a race and unite Australia, they told her. But on that day, on that start line, she merely shook them off like drops of water from an animal pelt. And pelt is the word. She ran the last 100m in under 13 seconds, pulling away with every stride from her immediate rivals and, to an equally obvious extent, the rest of the human race. That was an effort of superhuman dimensions. She let out a gurgle (pre-oatmeal, fortunately). I spin when I just think about the Olympics, she said. Aw. I just feel tight thinking about it. Oh. My. God. I guess I've always been away with the fairies a little bit. My friends would describe me as dizzy. I can be spacey and vague. I'm very good at detaching myself and that helps me. There are no words. I can't do it justice. It's frustrating in a way because I so want to share it. `Madness' is the word that comes to mind. That comes closest to how it felt. In the aftermath she has given herself a year off. To eat honey on her oatmeal, globetrot with her husband, establish a foundation for the underprivileged and breathe easily for the first time in seven years. Perhaps also to absorb her new place in Australian society. She's our sacred cow, said a leading commentator, the sports editor of The Australian. She's our Dalai Lama. Plus, Carlos Santana sent her a `well done' note. So are the mighty lauded. This week she was in Monte Carlo to pick up a Laureus Award - sport's equivalent of an Oscar - for Sportswoman of the Year 2000 and the global television pictures confirmed what we already knew. She is a natural in running spikes. On high heels, she is a dangerous novice and she accidentally plummeted down the ceremonial staircase into the arms of an astonished Prince Albert. It made the graphic point that the dividing line between heroic success and failure is stiletto thin. And lying in bed just days before her Olympic race with laryngitis, sneezing, asthmatic, on antibiotics and unable to take the simplest decongestant for fear of the Olympic drug testers, Freeman seemed to be facing the rough end of destiny. I was lying on the bed with my cats, Billy and Bob, looking up at the ceiling, thinking: Oh my God, the Sydney Olympics are, like, days away. But I refused to panic. And then she stood under a waterfall of ice cold water in the dead of the night. Twice. That was the flame-lighting moment of the opening ceremony (and rehearsal) which set the tone of wonderment, significance and beauty for the whole duration of the games. But, boy, was it wet. I was drenched. Soaked. Oh my God, my legs! Couldn't you see my legs quivering. She had thought it a mistake when they asked her in April to perform the ancient rite. Are you sure? Are you sure? she kept asking them. Look, if you change your mind, I'll understand. In fact, it was yet another stroke of the organisers' genius, but it did mean that Freeman's pre-Olympic preparation consisted of: being sick, flying into Sydney, not getting to bed until 5 am because of the rehearsal, doing a day's training on top of being emotionally and physically exhausted and then, by the way, in the full gaze of a few billion, lighting the Olympic flame under Niagara. I'd have been in a clinic, I said. Any sentient human would, surely. No, look, don't even go there! she grinned. But whether it was the missing ingredient of Marie-Jose Perec, the reigning double Olympic champion, operatically psyched out by running against Freeman plus five million Australians, or whether it was her ferocious preparation - I trained like I'd never trained in my life - she settled into her blocks that night in September. . . focused, calm, relaxed. Actually, it was one of my most conservative races with all due respect to the other
t-and-f: Bailey's last hurrah
The Electronic Telegraph Sunday 27 May 2001 Will Rouse WHEN DONOVAN Bailey looks back on his career, his two gold medals at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics will not be his most cherished memory - it will be the mere act of walking again. The 33-year-old Canadian, a former world-record holder and Olympic 100 metres champion, has said he will retire following the 2001 outdoor season. The announcement comes nearly three years after a career-threatening Achilles' tendon injury that required surgery. That will be the No 1 thing that stands out because I wasn't even able to walk, Bailey told The Canadian Press from Frankfurt, Germany, on Friday. But having great people around me got me back to the point that I was the top-ranked Canadian last year and one of the fastest men in the world, although I had an erratic season. Bailey will compete in meetings in Germany and the Czech Republic in the next two weeks. He said: My goals are probably just to give back, just be close to the people who were cheering me on when I started, especially here in Germany. I started here in 1994 and some of these same people are still here with photos of when I started. However, he is emphatic that his final race will be in Canada, either at the Canadian championships from June 22-24 or the World Championships from Aug 3-12. Both events will be in Edmonton, Alberta. I haven't decided which yet. If I'm running well, it will certainly be at the worlds but I'm nursing a slight bone spur now on my right heel. Bailey was at his peak at the Atlanta Olympics. He not only set a record of 9.84sec in winning the 100m but earned another gold medal a week later when he ran the anchor leg in the 4x100m relay. His record in the 100m has since been broken twice by Maurice Greene, most recently at 9.79 in 1999 but Bailey was not a factor at the Sydney Olympics. I've had some amazing fans over the years, Bailey said. Sometimes the media hasn't respected me in the way that they should, but the fans in Canad a have been amazing throughout my career, so I think it's right my last race should be there. Eamonn Condon RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: Re: How much talent/genetics do you need?
On 5/26/01 7:08 PM, alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting Jon. I'll give you one thing, you sure do make people think and bring up interesting conversations. You bring up something interesting. Just how testable is talent/genetics? If a high school runner runs extremely well off of limited training (Kennedy) one would assume that runner is blessed with talent. But, if a high school runner does not run extremely well in high school but goes on to bigger and better things even after taking a significant amount of time off (Rodgers) you would have us believe that the reason his talent surfaced is because of genetics. I must not have been clear then. I believe his talent surfaced because of his hard work. But if he didn't have endowed talent, all the hard work in the world would not have brought it to the surface. What would make more sense is that his training over the years is the reason why he could take time off, then come back very strong, even stronger than before. So by your account someone who runs relatively mediocre in high school then goes on to be a very good runner becomes a very good runner because his genetic talent took longer to show itself. Again, talent, by which I guess you mean ability or performance, does not naturally show itself except in the rarest of situations. It almost always takes discipline, hard work, etc. But, by the time his genetic talent showed itself the runner would have already put in years of training, training that affects his ability to perform well. How then are we to know that his sudden rise in performance after years of somewhat mediocrity are because of his talent or his training? To some degree we can't of course. But we do have some physiological parameters and over time, we will develop more. We are also developing some genetic markers, and within a decade or a little longer, it is within reason that we will have basic parameters for potentially great runners at various distances. These will not be so specific as to render obsolete the X factors -- training, nutrition, luck, etc. But it will help us understand human CAPACITY. You can test elite distance runners and you'll find that they are skinny, have a high % of slow twitch fibers, have a high Vo2max, and have this that and the other, but how are we to know that this is mostly from genetics and not from hard work and training? The only true way to test genetic potential would be to test distance runners in high school before they begin any training because any training at all will affect what talent they show. I still agree with you that you need some genetic talent, a sprinter with a high % of fast twitch fibers will not become a good distance runenr, but am not convinced that you need a lot of it to become successful and win a lot of elite races and make a decent living and standing in the elite community. I will agree with you that the best of the best need everything, including genetic talent. But, there have been many runners who have went on to perform extremely well after having relatively mediocre performances in high school and college. You can not say that the genetic talent of these runners was slow to emerge because the training they have done over the years has already affected them and improved them so how can we prove it was the emerging genetic talent or the hard work and training? Test them? But, testing would show the affects of training. I think the main thing genetic talent does is shorten the time needed to become a very good runner. Some only require a couple years to become very good, while others may wait an entire career before they reach the same level. Same level, different timespan in reaching it. Just food for thought. Interesting conversations Jon. Hey, I love discussing this stuff. I'm working on a book now on male/female differences!! Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
t-and-f: Video available of Penn masters 4x4?
Y ask Y: Dr. Ray Blackwell, anchor of the 4x4 world record M40 relay at Penn this year, wonders if anyone has video of that event (the WR masters relay in which the four Sprint Force America members averaged an incredible 50.2 per leg.) Lemme know, or write directly to Dr. B (a thoracic surgeon on the East Coast) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Much thanks! Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Bad news on L.A. all-comers
Greetings, all: Andy Hecker has asked me to post this: http://www.trackinfo.org is compiling a national (worldwide if information becomes available) Open and All-Comers meet listing. Also included are RAcewalk and Cross Country listings. New information is welcome. Please send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bad news for Los Angeles track. The L.AU.S.D. All-Comer meets might be cancelled. You might be expecting an announcement with the times and dates on the Los Angeles All-Comer meet series. Good things had been happening, with the new All Weather track at San Pedro High School being added to the plans. Instead this year, the meets have not yet been funded. The accusations are: because the teachers won a raise, the L.A. School Board who funds this through their Youth Services Department has cut out all extra programs that have a public presence--to give the impression they are out of money. Also included in this grouping are the Swimming Lesson programs, whose public safety ramifications are far more serious than our track program. The board steadfastly refuses to let these programs operate on a fee basis, instead insisting on paying for them out of their budget lest some member of the public be unable to pay their admission fee. So in order to protect against one or two people being deprived of service (which I doubt the community oriented people running these programs would do) they have deprived the entire community of these events. I've already started on the path to finding who we can talk to or what we can do to revive the program perhaps with an entry fee, so us participants can pay our own way. I've spoken with the Youth Services Department, they have referred me to call or write to: Roy Romer Office of Superintendant 450 N. Grand Ave. Room A-223 Los Angeles, CA 90012 (213) 625-6251 or FAX (213) 485-0321. [EMAIL PROTECTED] They have referred me to the Chief Financial Officer, Joseph Ceronian (213) 633-8400 to see what can be done. As I make my way through the chain of bureaucracy, I'll give you the correct person to contact. In case you are so inclined, please be part of the wave of public opinion. Otherwise we can hold on to the hope that some independent body might take up the community service and put some meets on--we could possibly create that organization. In the meantime, other local coaches who have hosted meets are reconsidering if their poor turnouts are worth the effort. Stay tuned to http://www.trackinfo.org. The schedule has been posted for the Southern California Association Masters Age-Group Championship Meet and Open Track Meet The meet will be held SATURDAY, AUGUST 4th at LONG BEACH CITY COLLEGE. Confirming the title statement, open competitors are invited to compete. Check: http://www.trackinfo.org/sca.html
