t-and-f: Start lists for Peregrine Systems U.S. Open at Stanford
Start lists and a revised time schedule for the Peregrine Systems U.S. Open to be held at Stanford University on June 9 are available at www.ustfopen.org. This IAAF Grand Prix I event will be televised on CBS on Sunday, June 10. Peregrine Systems U.S. Open June 9, 2001 Cobb Track and Angell Field Stanford University Entry List as of June 6, 2001 at 10:00pm GMC Envoy Men's 110m Hurdles Dominque Arnold, USA Rod Jett, USA Deworski Odom, USA Terry Reese, USA Eugene Swift, USA Terrence Trammell, USA Dawane Wallace, USA Adrian Woodley, Canada Pontiac Grand Prix Men's 200 Meters Kaaron Conwright, USA Jon Drummond, USA Bryan Howard, USA Jeff Laynes, USA Kevin Little, USA Dwight Thomas, Jamaica Christopher Williams, Jamaica Ricardo Williams, Jamaica Peregrine Systems Men's 800 Meters Trinity Gray, USA David Kiptoo, Kenya David Krummenacker, USA Sammy Langat, Kenya Otukile Lekote, Botswana James Mcilroy, Great Britain Derrick Peterson, USA Khadevis Robinson, USA Jess Strutzel, USA Peregrine Systems Men's Mile William Chirchir, Kenya Graham Hood, Canada Gabriel Jennings, USA James Karanu, Kenya Martin Keino, Kenya Seneca Lassiter, USA Rob Mitchell, USA Jonathon Riley, USA Michael Stember, USA Kevin Sullivan, Canada Daniel Zegeye, Ethiopia Men's 3000 Meters Abdi Abdirahman, USA Albert Chepkurui, Kenya Alan Culpepper, USA Daniel Gachara, Kenya James Getanda, Kenya Adam Goucher, USA Brad Hauser, USA Brent Hauser, USA Bob Kennedy, USA Luke Kipkosgei, Kenya Matthew Lane, USA Nick MacFalls, USA Ben Maiyo, Kenya Edwin Maranga, Kenya Phil Price, USA Nick Rogers, USA Andrew Walker, Ireland Men's 3000m Steeplechase Joel Bourgeois, Canada Fred Carter, USA Stephen Cherono, Kenya Jason Gibbons, USA Billy Herman, USA Ray Hughes, USA Greg Jimmerson, USA Tom Reese, USA Jesse Thomas, USA Clint Wells, USA Raymond Yator, Kenya Men's Shot Put Andy Bloom, USA John Davis, USA John Godina, USA Adam Nelson, USA Tonyo Sylvester, USA Kevin Toth, USA Jason Tunks, Canada Brad Snyder, Canada Verizon Women's 200 Meters Lilliana Allen, Mexico La Kiesha Backus, USA Juliet Campbell, Jamaica Latasha Jenkins, USA Marion Jones, USA Inger Miller, USA Tania Woods, USA Women's 400 Meter Hurdles Lade Akinremi, Nigeria Tonja Buford-Bailey, USA Natasha Danvers, Great Britain Sandra Farmer-Patrick, USA Yvonne Harrison, USA Catherine Scott, Jamaica Ryan Tolbert, USA Adidas Women's 1500 Meters Kathy Butler, USA Shayne Culpepper, USA Sinead Delahunty, Ireland Elva Dryer, USA Malindi Elmore, USA Sally Glynn, USA Mardrea Hyman, Jamaica Regina Jacobs, USA Leah Pells, Canada Amy Rudolph, USA Marla Runyan, USA Sarah Schwald, USA Ludmyla Vasilyeva, Russia VISA Women's Pole Vault Kathleen Donoghue, USA Stacy Dragilia, USA Melissa Mueller, USA Shannon Pierson, USA Mary Sauer, USA Jill Starkey, USA Kellie Suttle, USA Women's High Jump Amy Acuff, USA Erin Aldrich, USA Karol Damon, USA Nicole Forrester, Canada Tracye Lawyer, USA Women's Hammer Karen DiMarco, Australia Bronwyn Eagles, Australia Dawn Ellerbe, USA Bethany Hart, USA Lisa Misipeka, Amer Somoa Melissa Price, USA Carrie Soong, USA Women's Shot Put Stephanie Brown, USA Jillian Camarena, USA Valentina Fedyushina, Austria Kristin Heaston, Lieja Koeman, Netherlands Dana Lawson, USA Connie Price-Smith, USA Seilala Sua, USA Teri Tunks, USA
RE: t-and-f: Whither Hootie???
Casey Martin will be a guest competitor, as long as he doesn't sue for some kind of drinking infirmity. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian McGuire Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Whither Hootie??? Hootie III is on. I can speak for Mike on this, as we just talked about that two days back. We're lining up the elite athlete field, even as I type away. Beer will flow, runners will disrobe, cross-dress, the usual high-jinks. I, too, was disillusioned by Mike's call to Golf, but I believe it to be a cry of desperation, dealing with the intense pressure of putting on Hootie III. The question is: will Webb be in the Hootie field? Brian McGuire - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:31 PM Subject: t-and-f: Whither Hootie??? What's this crap I here about a golf tournament at USATF? What happened to Hootie III? Malmö leaves town and the thing goes belly up? C'mon, Fanelli, Hootie was my one chance each year to run terribly, drink a beer before noon and then feel so lousy that I vowed to start running more. Don't let me down! sideshow
t-and-f: HOOTIE 3.0 IS A GO!!!!!!!
Eugene,OR...Saturday 6/23...BE THERE!!! -MF Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
t-and-f: MAC OPEN MASTERS OUTDOOR TF CHAMPIOMSHIPS - NYC
METROPOLITAN ATHLETICS CONGRESS (MAC) OPEN MASTERS OUTDOOR TF CHAMPIONSHIPS - NEW YORK CITY DATE: Sunday, June 17, 2001 PLACE: St. John's University, 8000 Utopia Parkway, Jamaica, NY 11439 TIME: Meet Starts at 9:30am REGISTRATION Starts at 8:30am POST ENTRY ONLY!! (Pay at Meet). Individual Events: $5.00 MAC Members, $6.00 non-members Relays: $15.00 MAC Members, $18.00 non-members AWARDS: Medals to top 3 in each event. RULES: This meet is sanctioned by USATF and is thus subject to USATF Competition Rules. ALL competitors must possess a valid 2001 USATF Card. Cards may be purchased at registration for $15.00 ORDER OF EVENTS (Open followed by Masters) Track Events: 3000m (W) 5000M (M) 100/110m H (semi final) 400m H 100m (trial Semi) 1500m 400m 3000m Racewalk 100m (Final) 800m 200m 3000m Steeplechase 4 x 100m 4 x 400m Field Events: High Jump - 9:30am OW, OM, Masters Pole Vault - 10:00am OW, OM, Masters Long Jump - 9:30am Masters, OW, OM followed by Triple Jump - Masters, OW, OM For more information contact MAC at, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 718-488-5711 FAX: 718-488-5677 DIRECTIONS TO QUEENS CAMPUS: From: www.stjohns.edu/about/campus_life/qns_directions.html (BY AUTOMOBILE) From Long Island: Northern State Parkway onto Grand Central Parkway, exit at 188th Street. Left at light and sharp right on to service road; continue to campus; or exit at 168th Street, right turn onto service road and continue to campus. Southern State Parkway to Cross Island Parkway (North) onto Grand Central Parkway (West); proceed as above. Long Island Expressway, exit at Utopia Parkway, left on Utopia to Union Turnpike. From the Bronx: Triboro Bridge to Grand Central Parkway (East), exit at Utopia Parkway. Left at light to campus. Throggs Neck Bridge to Clearview Expressway (South) to Union Turnpike (West) exit. Right on Union Turnpike to Gate 4 (175th Street). From Westchester, Rockland and Connecticut: Proceed as from the Bronx. From Brooklyn: Jackie Robinson Parkway onto Grand Central Parkway, exit at Utopia Parkway. Left at light to campus. Belt Parkway to the Van Wyck Expressway, exit at Main Street, continue to Union Turnpike, right to campus. From Manhattan: Queens Midtown Tunnel onto Long Island Expressway, exit at Utopia Parkway (exit 25), right on Utopia to Union Turnpike. From New Jersey: George Washington Bridge onto Cross Bronx Expressway to Throggs Neck Bridge to Clearview Expressway (South). Proceed as from the Bronx. Verrazano-Narrows Bridge to Belt Parkway to Van Wyck Expressway. Proceed as from Brooklyn. (BY PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION) IND: "E" train to Union Turnpike - Kew Gardens Station. Q-46 bus to Utopia Parkway and Union Turnpike. "F" train to 169th Street Station. Q-30 or Q-31 bus to St. John's University. IRT: Flushing subway (#7) to Main Street, Flushing. Q-17 bus to Utopia Parkway and Long Island Expressway. Transfer to Q-30 or Q-31 bus for St. John's University. LIRR: Jamaica Station. Q-30 or Q-31 bus to 169th Street and Hillside Avenue., Flushing Station. Q-17 bus to Utopia Parkway and Long Island Expressway. Transfer to Q-30 or Q-31 bus for St. John's University. BUS: Express bus from Manhattan to Queens Campus via Union Turnpike. Additional bus lines serve the immediate vicinity from Nassau, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx.
t-and-f: Looking for Arnie Rosenbaum
Sorry to bother the list but can Coach Arnie Rosenbaum please contact me, or if anyone has his email address Stella Cashman
t-and-f: Just a thought
Netters: One result of the Cssey Martin decision has not come up and, frankky, it just occurred to me though it was plain in front of my face from te start/. If the USSC can hold that walking is not essential to the game of golf, how can all the stupid non-competitive disqualification rules in the HS rule book stand up? E.G.: wearing jewelry, having your shirt come loose during a race, a relay team not having exactly the same uniforms (sometimes we have had dqs because the size of the latters on otrewise identical unfiorms differed; once a team lost a state title because too many washing had slightly changed the color of one boys trunks), etc. etc. Just a thought. Ed Grant PS: On official idiocy in NJ, one practrice in our state meet is to set minimum standards in field events with anything under that standard not being measured. Last night, at our AG meet, I watched an entire flight of discus throwers go without a single mark being measured. In one of our state group events, only five boys got measurements, so there was no sixth place though boys competed. Yet, the rule book makes it plain that everything must be measured, otherwsie how are you going to break a tie by going to the second best jump or throw (this happened a couple of times this year). It goes even further. A South Jersey coach told me last night that at his sectioal meet, they were using the seed cards to determine the minimum measureable distance---anything bettered by half the seeds---or the styarting height in the PV and HJ. Theey were going to start one PV at 12-0 because more than half the boys had that height on their seed card. He pointed out that this was the boys' top height, not what they intended to come in at. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Just a thought
At 10:30 AM 6/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: Netters: One result of the Cssey Martin decision has not come up and, frankky, it just occurred to me though it was plain in front of my face from te start/. If the USSC can hold that walking is not essential to the game of golf, how can all the stupid non-competitive disqualification rules in the HS rule book stand up? E.G.: wearing jewelry, having your shirt come loose during a race, a relay team not having exactly the same uniforms Ed: I think your analogies are weak and make it more and more obvious that you have no idea how to interpret or read a Supreme Court decision. The color of uniforms and the wearing of stuff has nothing to do with ruling on whether or not a reasonable accommodation under the ADA fundamentally alters the nature of the event. Another poster mentioned the possible alteration in the color of a high jump bar for a visually impaired individual. What is your opinion of that? Or would you rather try to drag up silly analogies that do not make any sense whatsoever? I commend the members of this list that have kept the Casey Martin decision in an appropriate context. That is the context of common sense. Tim Willis ESQ. (770) 939-7669 book makes it plain that everything must be measured, otherwsie how are you going to break a tie by going to the second best jump or throw (this happened a couple of times this year). /FONT/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2/FONTnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; It goes even further. A South Jersey coach told me last night that at his sectioal meet, they were using the seed cards to determine the minimum measureable distance---anything bettered by half the seeds---or the styarting height in the PV and HJ. Theey were going to start one PV at 12-0 because more than half the boys had that height on their seed card. He pointed out that this was the boys' top height, not what they intended to come in at./FONT/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;n bsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbs
t-and-f: NJ All-Group meet
Netters: The New Jersey HS all-group meet went off last evening at South Brunswick in almost perfect weather. There was plenty of fine action, but two :mishaps somewhat spoiled the effect. To get to the bad news first There was nothing bad about what Danny Johnson of Rahway did in the 100M, only that this race and this race was one of only four in the meet to have a illegally-high wind behind it--2.2---and thus his 10.30 clocking will not stand as a state record. He later broke Dennis Mitchell's state mark in the 200M at 20.93 with legal (.05) wind behind him. Rival Jamar Ervin of Camden did not compete because of his sore leg, but may be ready for a relay stint at Raleigh, The other bad news came in the closing event, the boys; 1600R. It was a rousing race won by Willingboro in a MR 3:12.44 (erasing a mark set by the legendary Trenton team of 1978--the one that doubled the 1600R and 3200R at Penn with only 15 minutes rest). Camden was also under the old mark at 3:12.57 and Edgewood ran third in 3:13.85. So what's bad about that? Simply that Camden dropped the stick on the second exchange! Maurice Young had run 49.2 on the opening leg and Dwight Ruff---who had troubles of his own earlier in the evening--ran 46.9. The official split for Jade Smith was 49.5, but that included the time spent recovering the stick. John Morris then close in 46.9. Figuring Smith for around 47.0, this would project a time close to 3:10, not only a NJ record, but also under Northwestern (Md)'s Eastern mark. There is, of course, another chance at Raleigh, but there are complications there as well., Ruff, as of now, intends to run the IH at Richmond and the trials for that one are at the same time as the 1600R at Raleigh. What happened last night may change things, but don't bet on it. Ruff opened the meet with a MR 51.14 in the IH, but later had his card turned in too late for the HHs. That was a snakebit race, as winner Chris Stephens of Plainfield was d/qed for not properly attempting some of the barriers, though he seemed to be hurdling correctly in the last half of the race, The title went to his Union County rival Emmanuel Daux of Linden in 13.66 (wind was a legal 1.5). The first four were under 14.00, including Seton Hall soph Andre Callender in 4th at 13.91, a hundredth off Sultan Tucker's state class record. The amazing thing about this is that, because of an earlier injury, Callender has hurdled at all only twice in the last three weeks, at last Saturday's state Parochial meet and last night. He is a highly-touted football player who dallies with basketball indoor's but may switch to track next winter. Erin Donohue of Haddonfield said goodbye to NJ in fitting fashion, doubling the 1600 and 3200, but gave fans a scare when she tumbled to the track, apparently exhausted, after the latter race. It was a hard fall, but she picked herself up without assistance and walked off. Her big disappointment was losing the JT by three inches to SJ rival Chelsea Salisbuty of Buena, who PRed at 139-3 after trailing Erin in both the sctional and group II meets. Erin's track times were4:53.57 and10:49.32. Other highlights included: A 54.72 400 win for Tawana Watkins of Paterson Kennedy, the third time the junior has won this event. The 400H, where she was aiming for a state record only to be d/qed at the sctional level fore running around a hurdle, went to veteran Pam Riochardson of Edgewood with a big PR of 1:00.73. A slightly windy (2.3) 13.77 for Amber Williams of Roxbury (who was 2nd in the 400 in 55.40) in the 100H. Though Amber would seem to be a natural for the 400Hs (and did indeed run its 200M counterpart on the JO level) Both 800s. The boys' race saw Paul Silva of Union, an amazing all-around runner who tackles everything from the HHs to CC, play rabbit and break open the field on the first lap. Nat Glackin of CBA took over then, passing Silva on the backstretch and going on to win by four yards over fast-charging James Holden of Bridgeton and Marvin Lewis of Willingboro in 1:53.29. The girls' race saw four go over the line under 2:13 with soph Kim Mineo of Glen Rock the surprise winner in 2:12.12. She had trailed the trip of sophs Katie trotyter of Rd Bank and Shabazz Kelly of Trenton and frosh Lauren lewis of Southern Ocean most of the way, but made a huge over off the final turn to take the lead about 50 meters from the finish. (Katie trotter ran 2:12.66 and twin Amanda was 3rd to Donohue in the 1600 in 4:57.79--word is both will run CC for the first time next fall). A great weight double for junior Glenn DiGiorgio of Bayonne. he was slightly off his group mark in the SP at 65-5 3/4, but had a PR of 205-4 in the DT with no appreciable wind. A 47.21 win for junior Ray Williams of Scotch Plains in the 400. Williams blew out a field that included two of the Camden eteam, John Morris (2nd in 47.95) and Jade Smith (4th in
Re: t-and-f: Just a thought
I commend the members of this list that have kept the Casey Martin decision in an appropriate context. That is the context of common sense. I guess your common sense is different than mine. This really is a case of where do you draw the line. The Court said that walking is not an integral part of the game. Fine, I disagree with them. If he had asked to use a non-conforming club in order to make up for his disability, perhaps they would have made a different decision. If he had asked to be given 5 strokes per round as an accomodation, they obviously would have said it was unreasonable. So they have their own lines to draw as well. I could argue back and forth with someone who thinks walking is not an integral part of the game and we'd likely never agree. The only other part of the decision that makes me uncomfortable - I'm not saying it's totally wrong, but it makes me uncomfortable - is the idea that because the advantage of the cart does not outweigh the disadvantage of his handicap, it is appropriate. While I recognize the value of this line of reasoning in ADA cases, I don't think is appropriate to apply to a professional sport. I understand that the even if court members agreed with this, they may not have felt that legally they could alter the ADA without constitutional justification. But to me that begs the question of what common sense really would dictate. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Just a thought
A more visible bar in a vertical event would not impair competition. The athlete still has to clear the bar and gets the same rest between jumps as a 20/20 competitor. A more direct analogy would be requiring one group of jumpers to do some physical activity between jumps, for example, running a mile or doing a set of squats, while the others do whatever they please. Anyone who has played a round of golf on a hot, humid day on a hilly course knows that there is a significant difference to an able-bodied player between walking and riding in a shaded cart. Over the course of a 72 hole tournament, conditioning could affect scores because fatigue affects both mechanics and concentration. The biathlon makes a contest of performing an endurance activity (cross-country skiing or running) and a skill that requires precision rather than pure athleticism (target shooting). The level of exertion in golf is lower and points are not awarded for speed (speed golf being a different sport), but the role of fatigue over the course of a tournament is implicitly part of the game, in my opinion. Casey Martin can argue that his medical condition and the fatigue resulting from walking are a wash, but what about the next person, or the one after that? The sensible thing for the PGA to do at this point is to declare victory and let any player who wishes to ride do so. The use of caddies to carry a player's bag already exists, so even if they are correct that walking is essential, they have an avenue available for re-leveling the playing field. Golfers in carts would not be nearly as attractive for TV as walkers, but I'm sure that this problem can be addressed by existing video technology. But I see little in this discussion that is truly relevant to elite TF. The most similar issue I can recall wheelchair competitors in road races (albeit, in their own division), and that happened long ago. Maybe the PGA should have cart/no cart categories... Bill Bahnfleth At 08:10 AM 6/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: At 10:30 AM 6/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: Netters: One result of the Cssey Martin decision has not come up and, frankky, it just occurred to me though it was plain in front of my face from te start/. If the USSC can hold that walking is not essential to the game of golf, how can all the stupid non-competitive disqualification rules in the HS rule book stand up? E.G.: wearing jewelry, having your shirt come loose during a race, a relay team not having exactly the same uniforms Ed: I think your analogies are weak and make it more and more obvious that you have no idea how to interpret or read a Supreme Court decision. The color of uniforms and the wearing of stuff has nothing to do with ruling on whether or not a reasonable accommodation under the ADA fundamentally alters the nature of the event. Another poster mentioned the possible alteration in the color of a high jump bar for a visually impaired individual. What is your opinion of that? Or would you rather try to drag up silly analogies that do not make any sense whatsoever? I commend the members of this list that have kept the Casey Martin decision in an appropriate context. That is the context of common sense. Tim Willis ESQ. (770) 939-7669 book makes it plain that everything must be measured, otherwsie how are you going to break a tie by going to the second best jump or throw (this happened a couple of times this year). /FONT/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2/FONTnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; It goes even further. A South Jersey coach told me last night that at his sectioal meet, they were using the seed cards to determine the minimum measureable distance---anything bettered by half the seeds---or the styarting height in the PV and HJ. Theey were going to start one PV at 12-0 because more than half the boys had that height on their seed card. He pointed out that this was the boys' top height, not what they intended to come in at./FONT/DIV DIVFONT color=#00 size=2nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;n bsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbs _ William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E. Associate Professor Department of Architectural Engineering The Pennsylvania State University 224 Engineering Unit A University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm _
Re: t-and-f: Just a thought
Ed Parrot wrote: While I recognize the value of this line of reasoning in ADA cases, I don't think is appropriate to apply to a professional sport. I understand that the even if court members agreed with this, they may not have felt that legally they could alter the ADA without constitutional justification. But to me that begs the question of what common sense really would dictate. In the case of professional sports, you have to remember that the sport itself is somewhat secondary - the primary part of professional sports is *professional*. Pro sports are primarily responsible to the marketplace - and common sense cannot exist independent of the effect of any decision on the marketplace. To that extent, I just don't think that the marketplace that Pro Golf sells to really gives a hoot about the ADA, in general. In fact, many of the country club types who run and fund the PGA probably deeply resent the ADA because of the costs and inconveniences that accomodations cause their businesses, and because of their basic dislike of government regulation. Thus, battling against Casey Martin and the court probably seemed like the most common sense approach to a sport which plays to a highly conservative fan base. Phil
t-and-f: CanAm 2001
Just a reminder that the 2001 edition of the CanAm High Performance Distance Circuit is almost upon us. The Circuit consists of four meets between June 30 and July 10 in Boston, Maine, and Montreal. Go to: http://miscott.home.att.net/ and click on the CanAm logo at the upper left for detailed information about the meets, including entry instructions and a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page linked from the CanAm homepage. If you are looking for cheap airfares, Friday (June 8) would be the 21-day advance purchase deadline. Look into flying in to Providence (RI) or Manchester (NH) -- those airports are often cheaper than Boston's Logan airport. Mike Scott Vice Chair/Secretary, USATF Cross Country Council Clubs Coordinator, Team USA Distance Running Coordinator, CanAm High Performance Distance Circuit [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://miscott.home.att.net/
t-and-f: Giro D'Italia
This might be a bit off topic but certainly has implications in our sport. Another scandel is brewing at one of the grand tours of cycling: http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/giro01/results/stage18livecomp.shtml A great quote from Rudy Pevenage, the Telekom team director, We all had to go to our rooms and the police checked every room. Our riders were ready around midnight, while the rest of our team was busy till 2 am. The detectives said to us: don't worry about your sleep. there isn't a stage tomorrow...so I don't know what the idea was behind this raid. I'll hear the result of the meeting later tonight. I think it will be a typical Italian meeting with 100 men.
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
Interesting. How long have rabbits been used on a consistant basis? Any guess what the record would be without rabbits? How about 5k? Would the 5k record be under 12:50 without rabbits? How about the marathon? If the record makers had to set the pace themselves what would the distance records be? Something to think about. Alan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:52:32 EDT There have been 14 sub 27:00 10ks, how many of those were run without rabbits? I think the answer to this is zero. Steve S. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
Of course, there is always a question of what actually constitutes a rabbit. Is someone a rabbit if they lead a marathon out through the first half? What if they are just trying to keep the pace fast for themselves? Many rabbits finish the races they start, so are they rabbits or are they trying to ru a fast time themselves thinking that they will fare better in a fast race as opposed to a kickers race. You could specify that no money can exchange hands for the rabbiting, but many of the races I have actually seen rabbited were done without monetary compensation... tricky subject. -drew On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, alan tobin wrote: Interesting. How long have rabbits been used on a consistant basis? Any guess what the record would be without rabbits? How about 5k? Would the 5k record be under 12:50 without rabbits? How about the marathon? If the record makers had to set the pace themselves what would the distance records be? Something to think about. Alan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:52:32 EDT There have been 14 sub 27:00 10ks, how many of those were run without rabbits? I think the answer to this is zero. Steve S. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Discus field for Peregrine Systems U.S. Open
I apologize that my note last evening omitted the Men's Discus from the event listing. It appears below. Men's Discus Andy Bloom, USA John Godina, USA Vassili Kaptjukh, Belarus Nick Petrucci, USA Adam Setliff, USA Aleksander Tammert, Estonia Jason Tunks, Canada Robert Weir, Great Britain Ian Winchester, New zealand
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
Rabbits go back to Bannister at the very least. I don't recall them with the regularity you see them today until the late '70's in the mile. I don't recall Walker having one in his first under 3:50 race nor with Moorcroft (although I seem to remember a comment from the 2nd placer I thought he was the rabbit) or Aouita. Seems to me that beginning with Barrios' 10k record that there has been a rabbit for each record run since. I don't know what the record would be without one although since the Championship type record is 27:04 on a hot humid day I would figure that the same run on an Oslo summer night would be around 26:40. Just a guess. Steve S.
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
There is a difference between setting a pace for yourself and finishing and setting a pace for a world record attempt and finsihing. I would think watching a race you would know who is or who isn't a rabbit. Someone who has a PR a minute off the world record, but could still go through halfway at record pace, I would call that a rabbit if the finish or not. Alan From: Andrew Eldredge-Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Of course, there is always a question of what actually constitutes a rabbit. Is someone a rabbit if they lead a marathon out through the first half? What if they are just trying to keep the pace fast for themselves? Many rabbits finish the races they start, so are they rabbits or are they trying to ru a fast time themselves thinking that they will fare better in a fast race as opposed to a kickers race. You could specify that no money can exchange hands for the rabbiting, but many of the races I have actually seen rabbited were done without monetary compensation... tricky subject. -drew On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, alan tobin wrote: Interesting. How long have rabbits been used on a consistant basis? Any guess what the record would be without rabbits? How about 5k? Would the 5k record be under 12:50 without rabbits? How about the marathon? If the record makers had to set the pace themselves what would the distance records be? Something to think about. Alan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:52:32 EDT There have been 14 sub 27:00 10ks, how many of those were run without rabbits? I think the answer to this is zero. Steve S. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Giro D'Italia
As an Italian team director said about the cyclists: Some already understood, some are starting to understand and some will never Erik - Original Message - From: Ben Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:14 PM Subject: t-and-f: Giro D'Italia This might be a bit off topic but certainly has implications in our sport. Another scandel is brewing at one of the grand tours of cycling: http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/giro01/results/stage18livecomp.shtml A great quote from Rudy Pevenage, the Telekom team director, We all had to go to our rooms and the police checked every room. Our riders were ready around midnight, while the rest of our team was busy till 2 am. The detectives said to us: don't worry about your sleep. there isn't a stage tomorrow...so I don't know what the idea was behind this raid. I'll hear the result of the meeting later tonight. I think it will be a typical Italian meeting with 100 men.
t-and-f: Rabbits...
The history of rabbits is an old one. I haven't had the chance to look into the matter, but I can give you one historical example. In the early 1940's Sweden was the powerhouse of running (not surprising, since almost all other countries were at war. Germany, France, Finland the UK and many others after the 1939 season and the US after the 1941 season. Still the Swedes advanced the sport. Runners like Gunder Hägg (16 World records 1941-45, including 10 in the 1942 season), Arne Andersson and Henry Kälarne raised the level a lot. Since Gunder Hägg competed for my home club, Gefle IF, I have been able to study how he (and other runners) set up races. The rules didn't allow rabbits, but there were ways around this. Often good young runners were used to make pace in the early stages. They then dropped back, but finished the race. (Sometimes you could even let one early leader drop out completely an still get the record recognized, if the starting field was considered large and competitive) One example: On Sep. 4, 1942, Gunder Hägg lowered his own (and Arne Andersson's) WR in the Mile from 4:06.2 to 4:04.6. Leading the first 440 y in quick 56.0 was a 22-year old runner from Gunder's club Gefle IF. That runner, Henry Eriksson, dropped back and finished the race in 4:35.0. For a young runner like Henry Eriksson, this was both a help for his more famous club mate, and practicing to go at a fast pace. Henry Eriksson told me that he often got the order. Make pace for 600 and then finish. Later that would be make pace for 1000 and then finish. In late 1945 he was told to make pace for French star Marcel Hansenne at a race in Gävle. Make pace for 1000 and then do whatever you want to. Henry won the race in 3:49.8, which placed him as World No. 10 for the year. In 1946 he won the silver at the Europeans and then in 1948 - he won the Olympic gold in London. He meant that this schooling was very important in making him a champion. To dare to run faster than you normally would, to test your limits and at the same time loose some respect for the established runners. The history of rabbits certainly is oldar than this. I suppose that somebody can fill you in. Otherwise I might come back to haunt you... (But since I'll be in the US between June 18 and July 2, I'll be out of touch with the list for a while) Have a good summer Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
Someone wrote that they didn't think that John Walker had a rabbit in his 3:49.4...According to the IAAF's book on WR progressions, Sweden's Goran Sawemark set a pace of 56.3, 1:55.5 before dropping out. The last mile WR set without a rabbit was Filbert Bay's 3:51.0, set in Kingston, Jamaica, on May 17, 1975. Bayi set his own pace of 56.9, 1:56.6, 2:55.3. Bob Hersh and I may be the only list-members to have seen that race. As memorable as Bayi's performance was, so was the announcing of Foggy Burroughs(sp?), who teased the crowd by reading the results of the mile from last to first, occasionally reminding them in dramatic tones, The world record for the mile is 3:51.1. When he got to Bayi's time, he intoned, Three---FiftyOne---point--Zero! and the place went nuts. Speaking of nuts, there was a handful of us who flew down to Kingston at the last minute just to see the meet. Try explaining to a U.S. Customs official that you really were in Jamaica for only two days to see a track meet! Walt Murphy
t-and-f: Russian team roster for WAVA Brisbane
Greetings, all Russia is sending a 22-member contingent to WAVA Brisbane, including the 1952 women's gold medal shot putter (15.28, 50-1 1/2) Galina Zybina and an official who took third in the Tokyo Games high jump. 1. ARATSKI MIKHAIL 21.11.1929 M70 DECATHLON 2. BLAKITNYI ANATOLI20.02.1940 M60 5K; 10K;2KS;8KM Gross 3. IOUDINE ALEXEI 14.06.1960 M4010K; MAR 4. JILKINA NINA 09.10.1949 F50 LOJ 5. KHOLSHCHEVNIKOVA TATIANA 13.07.1942 F55 SP 6. KOVALENSKAIA GALINA 24.09.1934F65 SP 7. KOZLOV EVGUENI27.04.1939M60 5K;10K;8K CC 8. LYJINE SERGUEI19.04.1955M45 5KW;20RW 9. MALAFEEV IVAN 15.05.1945M45JAV 10. MALTSEVA LIOUDMILA 06.09.1952F45 HJ 11. PANKRATOV VLADIMIR 31.10.1956M40 200 12. POTAPOVA TATIANA 23.04.1954F45LJ,800 13. RODINE ALEXEI10.01.1952M4510K; 8K CC 14. SIBGATOULLINE LERON 05.01.1936M655KW;20RW 15. ZOUBEKHINA NATALIA 04.03.1951F50 WEP; SP 16. ZYBINA GALINA22.01.1931F70 SP (Olympic champion) 17. POPENCHENKO TAYIANA 13.12.1939F60 100 18. TCHENTCHIK TAISSIA 30.01.1936 -OFFICIALE (Bronze Olympic, third in HJ to Iolanda Balas in 1964) 19. MALTSEVA OXANA 03.05.1982 ACCOMPANY 20. ZORINA VALENTINA 23.01.1946 ACCOMPANY 21. ZORINE ALEXEI 28.04.1945 ACCOMPANY 22. PANKRATOVA EKATERINA 22.10.1990 - ACCOMPANY Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
Re: t-and-f: World 10k bests and rabbits
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The last mile WR set without a rabbit was Filbert Bayi's 3:51.0, set in Kingston, Jamaica, on May 17, 1975. I could be wrong, but I think his performance may to this day be the fastest mile ever run without a rabbit. Bob H
t-and-f: CT Open (was NJ All-Group meet)
In a message dated 6/7/01 11:27:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There was nothing bad about what Danny Johnson of Rahway did in the 100M, only that this race and this race was one of only four in the meet to have a illegally-high wind behind it--2.2---and thus his 10.30 clocking will not stand as a state record. He later broke Dennis Mitchell's state mark in the 200M at 20.93 with legal (.05) wind behind him. Same thing in the CT Open meet Tuesday. Glenn McFadden of Hillhouse/New Haven ran 10.36 in the 100, but the wind was 2.9+ (all the other races preceding it had legal winds). He did get the 200 mark, running 20.86, to break the mark of 21.54 set by Olympian Jerome Young in 1994. Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: Arrogant officials and decisions...
Listers, Where do we draw the line at HS meets? Here's the scenario... All-American high schooler at his/her last meet. He/she checks into an event 5 minutes too late. Do you strip this child of their last opportunity to compete in his/her state? THESE MEETS ARE FOR THE KIDS!! Officials are stripping kids of some of the most fond memories of their HS years. In NJ, some of the state's finest athletes were robbed of a chance to finish their careers because of some stupid rules. I think if you have a kid at a meet who's tops in the state in their event, page that person just to make sure they are not running the event. But don't close the event and have kid miss out because he was off warming up and didn't hear the call. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
t-and-f: Officials are stripping kids of some of the most fond memories of their HS years
Woe is me...it's society's fault...society made what I am...society made me miss my event... One day your All American high schooler will be facing the stupid rules of his employer. Being on-time is Rule #1. Check into work only five minutes late...well, you know the rest. Do it for the children ;) malmo Listers, Where do we draw the line at HS meets? Here's the scenario... All-American high schooler at his/her last meet. He/she checks into an event 5 minutes too late. Do you strip this child of their last opportunity to compete in his/her state? THESE MEETS ARE FOR THE KIDS!! Officials are stripping kids of some of the most fond memories of their HS years. In NJ, some of the state's finest athletes were robbed of a chance to finish their careers because of some stupid rules. I think if you have a kid at a meet who's tops in the state in their event, page that person just to make sure they are not running the event. But don't close the event and have kid miss out because he was off warming up and didn't hear the call. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
Re: t-and-f: HS PV endangered
Ed Grant wrote: Netters:Is the PV on the HS level an endangered species? CUT If the worst comes, it will be up to USATF to establish programs wherever the event is banned so that hopeful vaulters, male and female, can have the advantage of the best coaching available. Such camps, at least here in NJ would simply replicate when we had on an informal basis for about a dozen years in the l970s and 80s when Paul Richards ran his Flying Circus, producing most of the top marks in state history. In fact, such collections of athletes under expert coach is probably the best way to develop talent anyway in the most difficult of track and field events. This couild wind up being a case of what seems bad becoming good, but only if the proper steps are taken to make it so. This would make the situation in the pole vault similar to that which obtains in race walking. Do you want to see the pole vault sink to the level that race walking, especially among men, is at in this country? Better fight tooth and nail to keep the vault a part of the high school program. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarxô 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: HS PV endangered
Netters: Is the PV on the HS level an endangered species? In 2003, new regulations are coming into the HS rule book for pole vault mats. The word is that this might seriously endanger the future of an eventalready on shaky groun in many states, including NJ. The event is already banned in several areas because of deaths and injuiries in the past. New Jersey has not experienced any of these, thanks heaverns,the problem here is the cost factor. The full layout of the new regs would, I am told, cost about $20,000. That may be starting from scratch, which few schools would have to do, or again it may be just the new parts (which seems unlikely. At any rate, more money will have to be spent on an event which is already an endangered species. At a county coaches meeting today, we were told by our acting head official in the state that the future of the event has been regularly debated for several years at state meetings of athletic directors (the men who guard the pursestrings) The vote against the PV gets larger each time. Last night, at our AG meet, I was informed that, facing a lawsuit to make thr girls' PV a full-fledged scoring event on the state level, the decision may be to make both girls and boys'; events optional, nut I could not get a firm answer of just what this would mean to the boys' event which is now a full-fledged scoring event. If the worst comes, it will be up to USATF to establish programs wherever the event is banned so that hopeful vaulters, male and female, can have the advantage of the best coaching available. Such camps, at least here in NJ would simply replicate when we had on an informal basis for about a dozen years in the l970s and 80s when Paul Richards ran his Flying Circus, producing most of the top marks in state history. In fact, such collections of athletes under expert coach is probably the best way to develop talent anyway in the most difficult of track and field events. This couild wind up being a case of what seems bad becoming good, but only if the proper steps are taken to make it so. If it happens, the present PV runways at many schools could be converted into second horizontal jump facilities, which would be a big boon in a state like ours which hasn't the time in most areas, it seems, to add another international event, the triple jump, to our championship program. Ed Grant
t-and-f: JUCO results?
Anybody have any idea where I can locate results of this spring's JUCO outdoor nationals? The hapless NJCAA web site has nothing. Thanks Reuben Frank Burlington County Times Willingboro, N.J. = This content in no way reflects the opinions, standards, or policy of the United States Air Force Academy or the United States government. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: JUCO results
The NJCAA site is far from hapless... maybe a bit convoluted, but here are the results links in all their glory: MEN http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=42menu=8gender=mslid=23 WOMEN http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=50menu=8gender=wslid=25
Re: t-and-f: HS PV endangered
How many of these rules are really enforced, though? Most if not all the meets I have been at this season, there was no pad around the collar of the vault box, no padding around the standard bases, sometimes no top pad, etc. And as for the weight certification, that is a joke too. Most of the dual meets the coach/meet director is so busy trying to find people to work the major officiating positions they can't be bothered w/ minutae like that - often the vaulters are left to run the event by themselves. Speaking of the vaulter weight certification rule, at one of the CT class meets a team showed up w/ certificates from the school nurse for all its vaulters, one of whom was told he couldn't jump because he was one pound over his pole rating. Meanwhile, ANY vaulter who DIDN'T bring a certificate was allowed to compete on their own say-so that they were within the limits. Like arresting a guy because his driver's license expired a day ago, but letting everyone who's not even carrying one keep on driving. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Arrogant officials and decisions...
Maybe the supreme court will determine that being on time in not an essential part of the sport. In fact. they can mandate that we issue kids the chip and they could start behind the field if they like. Some of the best lessons I have learned from my time in this sport came from the difficulties, not the victories. In a message dated 6/7/01 8:19:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Listers, Where do we draw the line at HS meets? Here's the scenario... All-American high schooler at his/her last meet. He/she checks into an event 5 minutes too late. Do you strip this child of their last opportunity to compete in his/her state? THESE MEETS ARE FOR THE KIDS!! Officials are stripping kids of some of the most fond memories of their HS years. In NJ, some of the state's finest athletes were robbed of a chance to finish their careers because of some stupid rules. I think if you have a kid at a meet who's tops in the state in their event, page that person just to make sure they are not running the event. But don't close the event and have kid miss out because he was off warming up and didn't hear the call. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
Re: t-and-f: HS PV endangered
Last year, I was able to buy a new pit. I was told by the salesman to buy a 21'x24' pit because in a couple of years it would be the size reccommended. I bought one for around $10,000 by the time everything was done. I'm very pleased with it. Last week I talked with him about Ed's previous post about the pole vault. He pretty much confirms Ed's comments about the rules recommendation in 2003. It was going to be next year but is being put off for a year in deciding whether the width should be 20' or 21', probably because a 21' pit will spill over to the track in some places. I pushed pretty hard to get the pit this year because our district is going to be in deep financial problems in the near future. After having to spend $1500 to $3000 to replace javelins for next year, I'm afraid Ed is correct about how schools might react to having to spend big bucks on new pole vault pits. phil weishaar chapman kansas
