Re: t-and-f: power/olympic lifting by throwers?
I may be misremembering this, but wasn't discus man Jay Sylvester also a pretty fair competitive weight lifter in his day? Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Most Pleasant Major Competition To Attend
I won't jump into the middle of the "best competition" discussion (although having attended US Oly trials in 88 and 92 and watching as close as possible in 96 and 00 I agree with Conway's choice of 88) but would like to comment on how much I enjoyed Edmonton. I attended Rome in 83 (with a TFN tour group), 96 in Atlanta and now Edmonton. I enjoyed all three. But from the point of view of the price (most expensive tickets were less than a third of the asking price in Atlanta), accommodations, travel to the stadium, treatment by the ushers (hands off was the rule), weather (beautiful), Edmonton was the most pleasant experience I have had. If you are a North American Track and Field fan and you missed this one you missed a great opportunity. I will be happy if anytime in the next 20 years we have an event in North America that has the combination of good things that happened in Edmonton. David Donley Fort Worth, TX, USA
t-and-f: AOY discussions
On this issue of prospective AOYs for 2001, any view on Jonathon Edwards' chances?... has 4 longest jumps plus 7th and 9th...and only outdoor loss appears to have been by 9cm in Helsinki GP... and he has jumped about fairly regularly given event is non-GP (a real hindrance for non "glamour" events... so is his season over (or is he off to Goodwill Games)? Interestingly given talk of Bucher's chances, i can't remember Kipketer being AOY in his stellar seasons (1996, 1997)... this stuff doesn't seem to be archived at the T&FN site... Also any view on El Guerrouj's potential position given he has gone undefeated?... or is this a case of not matching up to his previous standards?
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Michael Contopoulos wrote: > > Alan... do you really want to continue with this? I really hate to correct > you, but Richard Limo ran 12:56.72 in Zurich, and if you believe he is not > yet 21, than you must also think President Bush is a bright man. OK, I had his PR from the 2000 ATFS Annual. Still, he did run 12:58.15 in 1999 and his DOB is listed in the book as November 18, 1980, which, unless my math is much worse than yours, makes him 21 this coming November. Do you think it's unreasonable for him to improve 8 or more seconds in two years between 19 and 21? Of course, I haven't seen his birth certificate, so maybe he is older than he's listed. > There is > no way you can say, based on his 13:00.77 WC performance AND his best time > this year (a pr), that the altitude effected him. You don't run within 4 > seconds of your pr in a championship race if you are hindered by altitude. Well, here again, it's quite reasonable to postulate that he is currently able to run under 12:50. Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 6:12:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Alan... do you really want to continue with this? I really hate to correct > you, but Richard Limo ran 12:56.72 in Zurich, and if you believe he is not > yet 21, than you must also think President Bush is a bright man. There is > no way you can say, based on his 13:00.77 WC performance AND his best time > this year (a pr), that the altitude effected him. You don't run within 4 > seconds of your pr in a championship race if you are hindered by altitude. > Once again, don't disrespect my knowledge (ANY athlete's pr and my studies > of atmospheric pressure) and I won't disrespect yours. Its as simple as > that. > > Mike > > > Don't forget, Zürich is at 1345 feet altitude. :-) sideshow
Re: t-and-f: mystery high jump?
In a message dated 8/23/01 12:37:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >best we can find anywhere is only 2.21 (he made 2.20 in Edmonton), and >his best from last year was 2.30. Maybe the official misread the metric tape and was off by 0.1m ;-) Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Boit Kipketer in Zurich
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 5:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, carole fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > --- Buck Jones wrote: > > > Boit Kipketer - hard to win a race you're not > > entered in. What happened to > > this guy? Three GL wins in a row, 8:01 - then not > > at the WC and abyssmal in > > Zurich (although I wish I could be so abyssmal :-) > > > I was in Zurich, around the 1500m start line and could > see Boit Kipketer fall on a barrier in front of us in > the first half of the race (can't remember which lap > exactly). He immediately tried to join the leading > group but he probably put too much energy in the move > and faded in the end of the race. > > Carole Fuchs > > > Yes, his manager told me that Boit Kipketer hurt his toe in that fall and is doubtful for Brussels (haven't looked at start lists).
t-and-f: Russian athletics considering suing Szabo
Please. I'll leave the expert analysis to the lawyer listers but here is a layman's analysis. First of all, the Russians will have to prove that Yegorova's reputation has been harmed by whatever statements Szabo made that they are suing over. If they can't prove that, they will have to prove that has been a loss as a result of the statements. If by some ridiculous chance these very likely ex Soviet legal scholars(there is an oxymoron if I ever heard one) can overcome these hurdles, Szabo's defense will be a simple one. She will argue that the statements are in fact true and a true statement cannot harm an individual. Just because Yegorova escaped the IAAF net as the result of a technicality, that doesn't mean that she didn't take EPO. Think OJ, his not guilty verdict and the subsequent civil trial. There will a much different standard of proof in whatever court these Russians think they can haul Szabo into. Her defense fund, which is probably now being collected by many of her fellow competitors, will be almost proof enough. http://sports.yahoo.com/m/sa/news/reuters/20010823/reu-yegorova.html Regards, Martin
t-and-f: Sorry for the sarcasm...
I am sorry if I offended anyone on the list (Alan Shank and Chapman). I got a little too riled up and took too much to heart Chapman's "You need to learn the difference between post hoc analysis and a controlled study." Sorry if I went overboard, but sometimes a few of the netters here seem to talk down to others, and although some may take it, it is in my personality to not. Although ALL my points still stand, my sarcasm probably could have been left out. I am clearly not out here to make friends, nor enemies, nor to be insulted. I am simply on this list to read everyone's opinions/research/history about track and field and to offer my own. But when my opinions are shot down in the midst of my intelligence, I guess I can become a bit rude. I'm sorry. Well, I guess that's it. I still say I run a pr at 2200 feet... but that's just me. Happy running and goodnight. Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: X-Country Schedule
This is far from a complete list, but here are the xc dates that have been confirmed so far for this season. I hope to get an updated list out shortly, so please send all additions/corrections as soon as possible. Thanks. Walt Murphy/X-Country X-Press P.S. Contact me directly if you want more information on X-Country X-Press, your best source (If I may be so bold) for x-country results at all levels. (*=H.S. meet, or contains H.S. races) August * 24 * Casper(WY) H.S. Inv. 25 UC-Santa Cruz Challenge O,M W5k-9am, M8k-9:45am [EMAIL PROTECTED]/831-471-9444 30 * Early Bird Inv.-Spearfish,SD 31 Appalachian St. Inv.-Boone,NC 31 Belmont Opener-Nashville,TN C, W-2 miles, M-5k Seth Sheridan 615-460-6163 31 Rice X-C Relays-Houston,TX Jon Warren 713-527-6021 [EMAIL PROTECTED] September * 1 Motor City Inv.-Rochester,MI(Oakland U.) 1 Anderson (IN) Inv.-Mounds Park 1 Bearcat Classic-Maryville,MO 10am 1 Cal.State-Fullerton Inv.-Brea, CA 8:30am 714-773-3490 1 Colgate/Harry Lang Inv.-Hamilton, NY C Arthur McKinnon 315-228-7585 1 Daniel Walker Inv.-Buffalo,NY 1 Empire Open-Santa Rosa,CA O,M 9amJerry Lyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]/707-527-9020 1 Idaho State Inv.-Pocatello,ID 1 Illinois-Chicago Opener-Swallow Lake Trail,IL 9:30am 1 Kutztown (Pa.) Inv. 10:30 1 Ohio Univ. Relays-Athens,OH 1 Saluki Fast Start Opener- Carbondale,IL 9am 1? W.Carolina Inv.-Cullowhee,NC 9-8? 1 West Florida Inv.-Pensacola,FL 8am 7 Army @ Cornell 7 Bradley Inv.-Detweiler Park,Peoria,IL 7 Crusader Inv.-Valparaiso,IN 5:15pm 7 * Gillette(WY) Inv. 7 North Central All-American Inv.-Naperville,IL 7 Tulane Inv.-New Orleans,LA 504-865-5222 7 UT-Chattaonooga Inv. 8 14th Annual Golden Gate Park Open-San Francisco,CA 9am O,M 8 * 31st Annual California(Pa.) Inv. HS-5k, C-M(5.1m),W(5k) 9am. HS open to PA, OH, WV, MD, NY Ron McMichael 724-938-5828 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Allegheny (PA) Classic. 8 Asics-UC Irvine Inv., Huntington Beach,CA Vince O’Boyle 949-824-6080 www.flashresults.com/flashwest 8 Bob Timmons Inv.-Lawrence,KS 8 Boise State Inv.-Boise,ID 8 Cavalier Inv.-Charlottesville,VA C 8 Central Connecticut Inv.-New Britain,Ct.John Kelleher 860-832-3054(P), [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Colorado College Inv.-North Monument Valley Park, Colorado Spgs 9am Ted Castaneda 719-389-6483 8 Dana College Open-Blair,NE C,O 10am402-426-7292 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Duquesne Inv.-Schenley Park-Pittsburgh,PA 8 Elon College Inv.-Hagan Stone Park, Greensboro, NC 10am(W), 10:45am(M) Charlie Brown 336-282-8052 8 Emerald City Invitational, Magnuson Park, Seattle, WA,Brian/Paula Montgomery 206-296-6441 8 Gamecock Inv.-Columbia, SC 9am Andrew Allden 803-777-7925(p); 803-777-0964(f) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 GLCA Champ.-Richmond,IN 8 Hanover (IN) Inv. 9:30amJosh Payne 812-866-7383 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 * Howard Bentley/UAH Inv.-Huntsville,AL HS-8am,C-9:45am David Cain [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Lafayette Inv.-Easton,PA610-250-5481 8 * Lebanon Valley Inv.-Annville,PA HS-9:15,C-11:00 Kent Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 * Mid-Atlantic H.S. Classic-Towson,Md (Goucher) John Caslin 410-337-6462 8 Minnesota-Duluth Inv. 8 Navy Inv.-Annapolis,MD 11am 8 Oacific-Nike Inv.-Nike Campus, Beaverton,OR 8 Ouachita Baptist Inv. 8 Pat Peterson Inv.-Oswego,NY 11am Tim Boyce (tboyce @oswego.edu) 315-312-4149 8 Sacramento(CA) Inv. 8 Sewanee (TN) Inv. 8 SW Texas Inv.-San Marcos, TX 8 Tommy Titan Inv.--U.Detroit Mercy Inv.-Cass Benton Park-Northville, MI C,O,Guy Murray 313-993-1724 8 U.Miami Inv.-Oxford, Ohio C 10:30amRich Ceronie 513-529-3106; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 UT-Arlington Opener 8 W.Carolina Inv.-Cullowhee,NC 9 Hill ‘n Harrier 5k-Goddard State Park-Grweenwich,RI 8:30am Greg Johnson 401-884-7599 14 Indiana Intercollegiates-W.Lafayette,IN 14 * Liberty Bell H.S. Inv-Littleton,CO 14 Oshkosh (WI) Inv. 6pm 15 Orange Classic-Syracuse,NY Teressa DiPerna 315-443-4374 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15 29th Annual Georgia State Inv.-Atlanta,GA John Rowland 404-651-2772 15 * 5-stage 8-mile H.S. relay-Hagan Stone Park, Greensboro, NC Charlie Brown 336-282-8052 15 Bethany Swede Stampede-Kanopolis Lake,KS 10:00am 15 Clackamas Open-Oregon City,OR 11am 15 Crimson Classic-Tuscaloosa,AL [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15 Delaware Inv.I-White Clay State Park/Newark,DE C 10:30am Jim Fischer 302-738-9621 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15 Illinois State Inv.-Normal,IL 9am 15 Mid-West Collegiates-Kenosha,WI 12:00 15 Muhlenberg Inv.-Bethlehem,Pa(Lehigh) 15 *
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Alan... do you really want to continue with this? I really hate to correct you, but Richard Limo ran 12:56.72 in Zurich, and if you believe he is not yet 21, than you must also think President Bush is a bright man. There is no way you can say, based on his 13:00.77 WC performance AND his best time this year (a pr), that the altitude effected him. You don't run within 4 seconds of your pr in a championship race if you are hindered by altitude. Once again, don't disrespect my knowledge (ANY athlete's pr and my studies of atmospheric pressure) and I won't disrespect yours. Its as simple as that. Mike >Limo's PR of 12:58 is from 1999 and he's not even 21 yet, so it's >certainly not unreasonable to assume an ability on hispart to run 12:50 >or better. The men's 5K was also somewhat of a "paced" race, as Sammy >Kipketer ran a rather insane early pace. The pack didn't stay with him, >but still it set up a fast time. The women's races, OTOH, were both >quite slow - no one under 15:00 or 31:30, and the men's 10K and SC were >quite slow. > > > > You're going to have to change the times run at Edmonton for me to >believe > > that the athletes felt an adverse reaction to 2200 feet. >See above. >Cheers, >Alan Shank _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Boit Kipketer in Zurich
--- Buck Jones wrote: > Boit Kipketer - hard to win a race you're not > entered in. What happened to > this guy? Three GL wins in a row, 8:01 - then not > at the WC and abyssmal in > Zurich (although I wish I could be so abyssmal :-) I was in Zurich, around the 1500m start line and could see Boit Kipketer fall on a barrier in front of us in the first half of the race (can't remember which lap exactly). He immediately tried to join the leading group but he probably put too much energy in the move and faded in the end of the race. Carole Fuchs ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Un e-mail gratuit @yahoo.fr ! Yahoo! Courrier : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
alan tobin wrote: > > >Altitude physiology is not voodoo. I didn't make these rules. The great > >Kung-Fu master did, so who am I to say Altitude Schmaltitude... > > > >chapman > > Apparently some people didn't listen to the great Kung-Fu master (yes this > is a repost): > > Kenyan Champs-Nairobi 1700m alt: > > 1 Charles Kamathi 27:47.33 > 2 John Korir27:49.34 > 3 Paul Kosgei 27:51.87 fastest time ever recorded at high altitude > Worlds: > 1 Charles Kamathi 27:53.25 (6 secs slower at lower alt) > 7 Paul Kosgei 27:57.56 (6 secs slower at lower alt) > 8 John Korir 27:58.06 (9 secs slower at lower alt) tactical race - first 5K 14:15, 2nd 13:39 1 Charles Kamathi 26:51.49 Brusselsaltitude? > USATF Champs: > > 1Abdi Abdirahman 28:23.82 > 2Mebrahtom Keflezighi 28:39.64 > 3Alan Culpepper28:49.03 > > Worlds: > > 18 Alan Culpepper28:18.44 > 19 Abdihakem Abdirahman 28:34.38 > 23 Mebrahtom Keflezighi 28:44.48 1) Mebrahtom Keflezighi 27:13.nnStanford, CA altitude probably less than 100m Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Michael Contopoulos wrote: > > Hey Chapman... not to Chap you ass... but... > > You said... > > <> > > Well... I'm thinking 21st Century Baby... you gotta stop living in the past > man. > > < the answer is yes, then for the elite athlete, there is little physiological > room to compensate, and performance will decline.>> > > As someone earlier noted, in the 21st century we know that it is not the > amount of O2 that we are concerned with here. The number of oxygen > molecules in the air remain the same as we increase height. However, > because there is a decrease in barometric pressure, you are actually taking > in less oxygen per breath. So, just to clarify, not "less oxygen" but > rather less oxygen per breath. > > To continue on... > > < shown a signicant decline in VO2max in Olympic cyclists at an altitude of > 580m (~1915') (while recreational cyclists had no change). In 1999, I > published a paper in Med Science in Sports, where runners who displayed a > phenomenon called EIH, showed a 4.2% decline in VO2max at an altitude of > 100m (~3300ft). based on our high low studies, we've shown that a 4.2% > change in VO2max is worth about 2% in 3k or 5k performance time.>> > > I believe your study is flawed when dealing with such low altitude. Here is > why. Any negative effect from a decrease in V02 max will be compensated for > by the feeling of lightness attributed to the density of the air. Air > denisty at sea level is 0.002378 slugs per cubic foot. At 2000 feet, its > 0.002242. I contend that at such a low elevation, this decrease in air > density of about 6% will negate the effects of less air pressure. Because > both are so relatively small, they cancel each other out. > > However, all the science in the world does not compare to simple > experimentation. We simply need to take Richard Limo's win to see that, no > offense, your paper is flawed. Richard Limo ran 13:00.77 to win in > Edmonton. If you take your 2% rule, Limo actually ran an equated sea level > 12:45ish. Or... if you go as low as a 1% difference (because 2% was at 3300 > feet), than that means his time was worth a 12:52ish at sea level... 4 > seconds faster than what he has done in the best rabbited races of Europe > this year. Limo's PR of 12:58 is from 1999 and he's not even 21 yet, so it's certainly not unreasonable to assume an ability on hispart to run 12:50 or better. The men's 5K was also somewhat of a "paced" race, as Sammy Kipketer ran a rather insane early pace. The pack didn't stay with him, but still it set up a fast time. The women's races, OTOH, were both quite slow - no one under 15:00 or 31:30, and the men's 10K and SC were quite slow. > > You're going to have to change the times run at Edmonton for me to believe > that the athletes felt an adverse reaction to 2200 feet. See above. Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: RE: something else to chew on
the Jamaican uniforms were not nike's , but adidas made.my runner was good enough to bring me one Vince Conway wrote: > Jim wrote: > > > IMHO, the last good looking uniforms the USA had were the '72 OG. > > > > Of late, it seems Nike's uniform style philosophy seems to be "do less > with > > more." Very busy, not too functional or aesthetic. > > > > I too liked the 72 uniforms .. Simple and sharp .. The 91 World's weren't > bad and didn't they use them again in the 92 Olympics ?? But the last few > years have been bad .. Not just for the US but around the world .. Even > something like the former "Unified" teams green uniforms were not bad .. Or > the gold and black of Jamaica ... > > Conway Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: U.S. Uniform Solution
With Dennis Mitchell on the verge of retirement, the U.S. national team should adopt his "Green Machine" ensemble (with a little flag stuck somewhere to cover the Red, White & Blue requirement) as its new uniform. No one will ever have a problem again (unless Nike starts pumping out knockoffs to a few hundred other countries) in picking out American contestants. Plus, it may help the wearers' performance, both on and off the track.
RE: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
In a message dated Thu, 23 Aug 2001 2:31:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >Altitude physiology is not voodoo. I didn't make these rules. The great > >Kung-Fu master did, so who am I to say Altitude Schmaltitude... > > > >chapman > > Apparently some people didn't listen to the great Kung-Fu master (yes this > is a repost): > > Kenyan Champs-Nairobi 1700m alt: > > 1 Charles Kamathi 27:47.33 > 2 John Korir27:49.34 > 3 Paul Kosgei 27:51.87 > > Worlds: > 1 Charles Kamathi 27:53.25 (6 secs slower at lower alt) > 7 Paul Kosgei 27:57.56 (6 secs slower at lower alt) > 8 John Korir 27:58.06 (9 secs slower at lower alt) > > *Also note the Kenyan Champs were a month+ earlier so they "should" have > been faster given the lower alt and month+ of training. So, it's my > conclusion, given the above, that running at higher altitude "must" be > easier than running at lower altitude. The numbers just don't lie..;) > >>> Both Paul Kosgei and John Korir had been suffering from slight injuries that hindered their Edmonton preparations. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
>All of the science IS simple experimentation.> Buck... you are correct by this statement... and realized that I had made an "error" as I was writing... but continued on anyway. I probably should have rephrased/rewrote what I already had down, but, quite frankly, I didn't feel like it. >You need to learn the difference between post hoc analysis and a controlled >study.> HAHAHA... I know the difference very well friend... please DO NOT insult my intelligence. Controlled study experimentation is worthless in my opinion. Why? Because in reality there are, in fact, very little controlled/constant factors. Its like Economics, Buck, great in theory and on paper, but you know what? The market and its agents are NOT rational in real life... and clearly neither are you. >>Chapman has an opinion AND evidence to support it on his side - you save >>simply an opinion.>> And my opinion is correct. His science is hogwash. I rule. >What, you don't believe the guy ran his best race at the World >Championships? No I don't. If Richard Limo breaks 12:50 this year, I will agree with you. Until then... keep on figuring out you V02 Max, 7.2326123%, 2217.389 ft derivitive to the higher power of 4.987 divided by 3.14156 conversion factors. There was no effect. I am correct because I have never felt any difference at 2200 feet. Not a bit of difference. You are wrong because you probably ran a slow time some day in the past and like to attribute it to altitude rather than ineptitude. Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
>Altitude physiology is not voodoo. I didn't make these rules. The great >Kung-Fu master did, so who am I to say Altitude Schmaltitude... > >chapman Apparently some people didn't listen to the great Kung-Fu master (yes this is a repost): Kenyan Champs-Nairobi 1700m alt: 1 Charles Kamathi 27:47.33 2 John Korir27:49.34 3 Paul Kosgei 27:51.87 Worlds: 1 Charles Kamathi 27:53.25 (6 secs slower at lower alt) 7 Paul Kosgei 27:57.56 (6 secs slower at lower alt) 8 John Korir 27:58.06 (9 secs slower at lower alt) *Also note the Kenyan Champs were a month+ earlier so they "should" have been faster given the lower alt and month+ of training. So, it's my conclusion, given the above, that running at higher altitude "must" be easier than running at lower altitude. The numbers just don't lie..;) USATF Champs: 1Abdi Abdirahman 28:23.82 2Mebrahtom Keflezighi 28:39.64 3Alan Culpepper28:49.03 Worlds: 18 Alan Culpepper28:18.44 19 Abdihakem Abdirahman 28:34.38 23 Mebrahtom Keflezighi 28:44.48 28:23-28:49 at the lower alt. US Champs. 28:18-28:44 at the higher alt. World Champs. Again, given the numbers I "must" conclude that one races faster at higher altitude...;) *Note that one Alan Culpepper ran 31 secs faster at the higher altitude. I guess he didn't listen to the Kung-Fu Master of altitude physiology. Alan http://www.geocities.com/runningart2004 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Michael Contopoulos blathered: <> All of the science IS simple experimentation. <> You need to learn the difference between post hoc analysis and a controlled study. Chapman has an opinion AND evidence to support it on his side - you have simply an opinion. What, you don't believe the guy ran his best race at the World Championships? Cheers, Buck Jones
GL predictions was:t-and-f: Stuff from Van Damme site
Alan Shank wrote: "I wonder whether El Guerrouj's decision to stay in the 1500 rather than moving up to 5000 has anything to do with the jackpot?" Would El G. actually consider it worth it? Given that Szekely already has a share, Jones, Bucher, and Johnson will probaly all get one of their two wins to get a share, and of the other five (including El G) I would expect 2 or 3 to get them, then the jackpot is going to be split 6 or 7 ways. With the current price of gold around $275, 50kg of gold is worth 'only' $484,000 - that's about $69,142 per athlete if 7 get it, or $80,667 for 6. Note that I only wrote this so I could be a numbers geek on the list too :-) Here's something more relevant: I predict these athletes will share the gold: Szekely - duh Jones, Bucher, and Johnson - can't see any of them losing two in a row Yegorova - unless, of course, she's the victim of a small, blond, romanian, flying tackle :-) Actually, colusion twixt Radcliffe, Szabo, Wami, and Adere, might be effective, but I don't see it happening. Guerrouj - if he runs them, he will win them And these won't: Graf - Mutola should take one or both of the remainders from her, and if not Holmes might take one Boit Kipketer - hard to win a race you're not entered in. What happened to this guy? Three GL wins in a row, 8:01 - then not at the WC and abyssmal in Zurich (although I wish I could be so abyssmal :-) Dilworth - too inconsistent Cheers, Buck Jones
RE: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Hey Chapman... not to Chap you ass... but... You said... <> Well... I'm thinking 21st Century Baby... you gotta stop living in the past man. <> As someone earlier noted, in the 21st century we know that it is not the amount of O2 that we are concerned with here. The number of oxygen molecules in the air remain the same as we increase height. However, because there is a decrease in barometric pressure, you are actually taking in less oxygen per breath. So, just to clarify, not "less oxygen" but rather less oxygen per breath. To continue on... <> I believe your study is flawed when dealing with such low altitude. Here is why. Any negative effect from a decrease in V02 max will be compensated for by the feeling of lightness attributed to the density of the air. Air denisty at sea level is 0.002378 slugs per cubic foot. At 2000 feet, its 0.002242. I contend that at such a low elevation, this decrease in air density of about 6% will negate the effects of less air pressure. Because both are so relatively small, they cancel each other out. However, all the science in the world does not compare to simple experimentation. We simply need to take Richard Limo's win to see that, no offense, your paper is flawed. Richard Limo ran 13:00.77 to win in Edmonton. If you take your 2% rule, Limo actually ran an equated sea level 12:45ish. Or... if you go as low as a 1% difference (because 2% was at 3300 feet), than that means his time was worth a 12:52ish at sea level... 4 seconds faster than what he has done in the best rabbited races of Europe this year. You're going to have to change the times run at Edmonton for me to believe that the athletes felt an adverse reaction to 2200 feet. Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Best Competitions
Alan Shank wrote: >If Conway says, "My favorite World Championships meet was Seville," and >Larry says, "Mine was Stuttgart," there's no argument; no one needs to >"prove" his preference. Sounds like a formula for bankrupting bars around the world! Phil
[Fwd: t-and-f: power/olympic lifting by throwers?]
I am forwarding this from Elliott Denman since I think he intended it to go to the list. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000) HI EVERYBODY:: THE GREAT GARY GUBNER OF NYU (when NYU was a major Division I powrerouse, with many NCAA. IC4A, Penn Relays, Met champions, ..and Olympians, etcon its roster, teams coached by the late great Emil Von Elling - "Von" to all - and Joe Healey, 1932 Olympic 400 hurdler)placed 5th in 1964 Oly Trials shot put...behind Dallas Long, Randy Matson, Parry O'Brien and Dave Davis) BUT COMPETED ALONG WITH NOTED TEAMMATE NORBERT SCHEMANSKY in superheavyweight class weightlifting at 1964 Tokyo Gamesand placed 4th...The medals went to gold...Zhabotinsky (Soviet Union)...silver..Vlasov (Soviet Union)...and bronzeSchemansky (USA.) Through the 40s, 50s and 60s, NYU produced such weight greats as Bernie Mayer, Stan Lampert, Norm Wasser, Irv Kintisch, Marty Engel (US hammer record-breaker, 1952 Olympian)and Gary Gubner. NYU now competes in Division III track and field as a member of the University Athletic Assn. The men's team is coached by Nick McDonough (Syracuse grad who was asst coach at Seton Hall) ..who is doing his best...to bring NYU back into the mainstream of track and field... Thought you'd appreciate the update... Many cheers, Elliott Denman NYU '56 USA '56 Melbourne.
t-and-f: mystery high jump?
anybody know when or where David Furman got the requisite 2.31 qualifier that allowed him to compete in Edmonton (sted of Charles Clinger)? best we can find anywhere is only 2.21 (he made 2.20 in Edmonton), and his best from last year was 2.30. ??? gh
t-and-f: Stuff from Van Damme site
Szekely has already clinched a share of the 50 kilos of gold; I think she must compete in the GP Final to claim it. Marion Jones, Andre Bucher and Allen Johnson need one more win out of two to clinch, while Stephanie Graf, Olga Yegorova, Hicham El Guerrouj, Kevin Dilworth and Wilson Boit Kipketer all need to "run the table" to reach the required five victories. I wonder whether El Guerrouj's decision to stay in the 1500 rather than moving up to 5000 has anything to do with the jackpot? There is a page of quotes from Marion Jones, including: "I will eventually support an action against doping as long as it NOT against an athlete, but in favour of and focusing on improving the test procedures." Huh? Who's writing her dialogue? Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: Russian athletics considering suing Szabo
Ken Parker wrote: > > Russian athletics considering suing Szabo > MOSCOW, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The Russian athletics federation is considering > legal action against Gabriela Szabo and her manager in the row over world > 5,000 metres champion Olga Yegorova and the performance-enhancing > erythropoietin (EPO). > Yegorova tested positive for EPO at the Paris Golden League meeting in July > and was initially suspended from the world championships in Edmonton earlier > this month, but was later cleared to compete because the test did not > conform to International Olympic Committee (IOC) standards. I read the article. The "Russian Craig Masback" said they could not afford EPO. So far, though, I have not seen any explanation of why she tested positive in the urine test if she had never taken EPO. Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: Best Competitions
Conway wrote: > > Larry wrote: > > > Conway - - Get with the program. Seville doesn't even rank among the top > > three in the "best ever" world championships. It's very simple: Stuttgart, > > Helsinki and Tokyo in that order. > > > > Larry you must have been in a bunker trying to prepare for that y2k bug that > never showed up in 99 .. > (Selective comparisons of marks from '97 and '93 snipped) One of the silliest, most fruitless activities engaged in by human beings is arguing about the relative merits of A and B, whatever they might be, when it's really just a matter of personal preference. We might as well argue about what's the "best" color (green, of course). If Conway says, "My favorite World Championships meet was Seville," and Larry says, "Mine was Stuttgart," there's no argument; no one needs to "prove" his preference. Cheers, Alan Shank
Re: t-and-f: power/olympic lifting by throwers?
Paul, I know the top female prep shot putter from this past season, Karen Freeberg is big time into powerlifting. My thinking is she's the best prep female at both the shot and powerlifting currently. Not sure of the details, just know enough knowledge to be dangerous from the local paper and also because the guy sitting next to me feeding me data is the head track coach at San Luis Obispo HS where she graduated from this past year. Gotta go cause we're catching a plane for Hood to Coast. If you see a tired guy driving a van at 3:00 am, it's probably me...oh yeah, here's her website: http://www.thegrid.net/freberg/karen.htm Joe "P.F.Talbot" wrote: > > Does anyone know of the best reported powerlifting or O-lifting "records" > by throwers (or other events)? > > Do any elite throwers actually compete in the Olympic or power lifts? > > Paul
RE: t-and-f: Altitude correction... opinion stands...
Michael Contopoulos wrote <> Or maybe, unlike Michael, they had in their head an understaing of the latest science on the matter. In 1996 in Journal of Applied Physiology, an Australian named Gore had shown a signicant decline in VO2max in Olympic cyclists at an altitude of 580m (~1915') (while recreational cyclists had no change). In 1999, I published a paper in Med Science in Sports, where runners who displayed a phenomenon called EIH, showed a 4.2% decline in VO2max at an altitude of 100m (~3300ft). based on our high low studies, we've shown that a 4.2% change in VO2max is worth about 2% in 3k or 5k performance time. One concept will help everyone get over the confusion of 2100ft being detrimental to performance. First, get over the idea that there is a threshold or minimum altitude that affects performance. Paul Talbot wrote <> That is 1970's thinking, not 1990's thinking. In fact for elite distance runners (only), the effects of altitude are most definitely linear. For most healthy people, this is not the case. What everyone should remember is that with elite distance runners, you're talking about a machine at the limit of performance and physiological adaptation. I always use the Indy car example. Tweak the carburetor one click off of ideal and the car runs slower. There is no room for another system to compensate. Even if you pump more fuel in, or put on better tires, the car still runs slower. Same for the elite endurance athlete. Any reduction of inspired PO2, and there is precious little room for another system to compensate - simply because the gas exchanger in the elite athlete is one of the primary weak links (if you are really interested in the physiology of why, I'll post privately so I won't bore the list). So don't think about or debate whether 2100ft is altitude or not. The designation is irrelevant. Just ask if there is "less oxygen" at 2100ft compared to sea level. If the answer is yes, then for the elite athlete, there is little physiological room to compensate, and performance will decline. Altitude physiology is not voodoo. I didn't make these rules. The great Kung-Fu master did, so who am I to say Altitude Schmaltitude... chapman
Re: t-and-f: Russian athletics considering suing Szabo
They'll have to get in line behind Szabo's "ugly" teammate. RT >Russian athletics considering suing Szabo >MOSCOW, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The Russian athletics federation is considering >legal action against Gabriela Szabo and her manager in the row over world >5,000 metres champion Olga Yegorova and the performance-enhancing >erythropoietin (EPO).
t-and-f: Russian athletics considering suing Szabo
Russian athletics considering suing Szabo MOSCOW, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The Russian athletics federation is considering legal action against Gabriela Szabo and her manager in the row over world 5,000 metres champion Olga Yegorova and the performance-enhancing erythropoietin (EPO). Yegorova tested positive for EPO at the Paris Golden League meeting in July and was initially suspended from the world championships in Edmonton earlier this month, but was later cleared to compete because the test did not conform to International Olympic Committee (IOC) standards. More... http://sports.yahoo.com/m/sa/news/reuters/20010823/reu-yegorova.html Ken Ken Parker RunnersWeb.com A Running and Triathlon Resource Portal <http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
t-and-f: Herman Goffberg Memorial
It was announced today that the memorial service for Herman Goffberg, 1948 Olympian, Penn State athlete and volunteer assistant coach will take place at the Penn State indoor track (officially, the Multi-Sport Facility) at 4 p.m. on Friday, August 31. The obit below, which was published in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, may be of interest, particularly to those who knew both Herm and Harry Groves. Bill Bahnfleth >X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:20:48 -0400 >Reply-To: Nittany Valley Running <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sender: Nittany Valley Running <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-PH: V4.1@f05n13 >From: Greg Fredericks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Herm Article >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Here is an article about Herm from the Post Gazette. Harry's staff >assistant Mary Alterio supplied the link. > > >http://www.post-gazette.com/obituaries/20010822goffberg0822p2.asp > >greg _ William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E. Associate Professor Department of Architectural Engineering The Pennsylvania State University 224 Engineering Unit A University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm _
Re: t-and-f: power/olympic lifting by throwers?
I believe one of the Wilhelms ( Steve & Bruce ) if my spelling is correct, made international teams in OL. I had a thrower who transferred from Kent St. To Northeastern U. Steve Cameron ( discus 177 shot 60')who was a top NCAA, OL as well. I also coached Ernie Hackett ( now Dr.Hackett ) formerly from Maine, who was the world champ in the 275 lbs. class in power lifting. As training became more specific and speed and event fitness were emphasized, the likelyhood of performing at a similar or higher level in power or olympic lifting lessened. The training has a different purpose. Many of the new top throwers do not have the strength levels in lifting that prior throwers had. They do not need it and never did! It was a learned experience for me as a thrower coach as well. We still have many in the USA who cling to this outmoded 'super strength' training model. There is a 'thing' as too much strength for the 'thing' you wish to do. Speed really is the 'essence'. Joe Donahue Former Throws Coach, Northeastern University 781-545-6172 Joseph J. Donahue M.Ed. CMHC, CH, Master Practitioner NLP Academic, Career, Sports & Performance Counseling
RE: t-and-f: start list for Van Damme memorial - notes
In far away Israel, from where most of you get to watch - on TV- only atrocities and the aftermath suicide bombers, as if these were the only things taking place - we had the FULL races, the absence of which you lament. The rights to broadcast the entire Golden League were purchased by the main local sports channel. We also have a truly excellent commentator in Shmuel Epstein, who does a job superior to the Eurosport team (who don't transmit the Golden League, by the way). You cannot imagine how right you are about the 3000m (women) and 5000m races, the second simply exhilarating. (we do have one ESPN channel on cable, but I find very little to watch there besides NBA basketball). What can one say? UG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alan Shank Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:24 PM To: Track Posts Subject: t-and-f: start list for Van Damme memorial - notes No Kenteris (Kederis, Kenderis) in the 200 Bernie Williams, Christian Malcom and Ato Boldon all in both 100 and 200 Another GREAT 800 in store El Guerrouj in the 15, along with - yes, El Kaouche. Will he rabbit, or race? No Ngeny. No Markov in the PV Suzy F-H is in the 1500, along with all the "top guns" except Szabo 3000 loaded with all the 5000 contenders, plus Wami and Adere from the 10K. No Tulu. Most of the fields look quite similar to the finals in Edmonton! Should be a great meet. I was quite disappointed in the "coverage" of the distance races from Zurich (ESPN, that is). About 50m of the W 1500, the same of the 3000 and about 200m of the M 5K, all of which were excellent, fast races, judging from the results. Sigh. Cheers, Alan Shank
