t-and-f: RE: What's Embarrassing
I was going by individual performances at major competitions ie. World Champs. By virtue of Curt Clausen's finishes in '99 (4th) and '01(7th) walkers have obliterated anything the runners have done. Granted this past year's x-c season was tremendous and things are looking well for our distance corps, but they still lack a single outstanding performance since '93. Walking has a terrible lack of depth and that's obvious in my post that speaks of that embarrassment. So I wasn't looking at depth charts at all. Allen ps-Its rare that Mike Rohl would ever agree with me, at least he did understand the context of my post. As for Malmo, please elaborate on how you think junk miles or slow runs benefit you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 7:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: What's Embarrassing? Yesterday, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, In defense of the walk though, I do have to say this, at least the walkers have consistently performed better at the distance events than our running brethren. Since I don't know much about the current state of either race walking or distance running, I was curious about how well this statement is demonstrated in the national depth data I compile annually. I haven't yet asked Mirko Jalava for permission to use his 2001 lists for this purpose, but this is what I found in the 2000 data: The charts summarize the number of athletes each country placed in the world top-100 rankings for 2000 (plus ties) and the highest-ranked of these. Since one or two placings may represent only exceptional individuals, rather than national program strength, I've truncated the lists to three placings or more. The data base drawn upon is the world list from Mirko Jalava's web site http://www.tilastopaja.com/. snip
Re: t-and-f: What's Embarrassing?
To be more specific, Curt Clausen's finishes in the last 3 Majors (2 WCs 1 OG) have been higher than any US male over 400m. MJR
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
If it hasn't already been said yet, I am sure Micky G was on the US Relay in Edmonton! Obviously, he played baseball too. Bob Bettwy Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] (703) 351-7266 FAX (703) 522-2891 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f-digest V1 #3828 -- Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:13:14 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree Alan wrote: I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? I'm trying to figure out who the heck Micky G is. I'm stymied. ... Phil
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
In a message dated 10/9/01 11:52:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the old days farming skimmed away many of the better athletes. I recall hearing an interview w/ Bob Feller in which he said he developed his basic core strength hefting hay bales all day as a youth. He said today's athletes lack this overall conditioning begun at an early age, and thus have to compensate w/ weights, stretching, etc. Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: track baseball
I have always loved this story from ex Kansas University coach Bob Timmons. While coaching at Wichita East in the early 60's, Bob also told everyone their was so much talent at East he was continually amazed. One year his 4 x 200 relay (880 relay for you oldtimers) set a state record. The next day or so the team was challenged to a race by members of the East High's state champion baseball teams infield. The baseball team won.
Re: t-and-f: track baseball
My coach in college played baseball in high school. Off his training for that, though, he jumped in a few meets at the end of the season, qualified for states, and did well enough to be recruited by several schools for track. He went on to qualify for the OT in 92 and ran 20.9, 10.24 and 46.9... not bad for a white boy baseball player who didn't really run til college. Not only that, but after the birth of his first daughter, he stopped training seriously... with probably quite a few years of prime ahead of him. Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: farming vs weightlifting
I was one who actually spent his youth doing this very exercise from 7th grade thru high school every summer putting up hay for various farmers around the area. I was actually pretty good at it and could easily sling a bale, 6 to 8 high on a wagon depending on weight of bale.After 6 years of putting up hay, I went to college where I became friends with others who actually lifted weights. the first time I ever tried to max out on a bench press I couldn't bench 120 lbs. Like most things throwing hay bales is all technique. BTW, if you think it is hard to get kids to run for track, try to HIRE them to pick up 80 lb square bales and stack them in a barn! phil weishaar chapman kansas
Re: t-and-f: NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational
I think its a travesty that Arkansas is ranked 3rd after they have won 3 straight titles and have brought in Cragg, Silverus Kimeli to replace who's gone. They should start #1 every year and stay there until somebody beats them, they've earned that. Then again, what the heck do polls matter? Or Pre-Nats? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational Pre-Nats??? This looks like Nationals minus Arkansas and Wisconsin!!! A quick count reveals that only 7 men's and 4 women's teams ranked in the top 25 in the latest polls won't be there. Ranked teams that will be there: Men: 1, 2, 5, 8-11, 13-22, 24 Women: 1-6, 8,9, 11-13, 15-22, 24, 25 How much longer before Griak becomes the meet that qualifies you for the Pre-NCAA? :-) I think the qualifying system is much more fair than it was before the field was expanded, but at what cost? Many meets now suffer because schools prefer going to Pre-NCAA or Griak. For example: Murray Keating, Wolverine Interregional, Big Cross (Pasco, Wa), Central Collegiates, Paul Short, etc. And what about poor schools in the southeast district? They have to run at Furman for Districts as well. So probably half their races are on the same course. So is the Pre-NCAA idea a good one? I still think so, but would like to hear what others think. sideshow In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 5:21:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Info from Furman on this Saturday's NCAA Pre-Meet. Following is some crucial information on the NCAA Pre-Meet/Furman Invitational, slated for Saturday, Oct. 13, at the Furman Cross Country Course (on the Furman Golf Course). Schedule of Events 8:30 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Girls 5K 9:10 Furman Invitational Junior Varsity Boys 5K 9:40 Furman Invitational Varsity Girls 5K 10:15 Furman Invitational Varsity Boys 5K 10:45 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Purple 6K 11:20 NCAA Pre-Meet Women's Silver 6K 11:55 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Black 8K 12:35 NCAA Pre-Meet Men's Gold 8K 1:15 Furman Invitational Men's 8K 2:00 Furman Invitational Women's 6K Teams that have been accepted into the NCAA Pre-Meet races will be announced Thursday at noon on the Furman website. The address is www.furmanpaladins.com. Please click on the NCAA Championships logo, scroll down to the results section, and click on the Furman Invitational/NCAA Pre-Meet link. There you will find links to the race fields for the pre-meet races. There will be two balanced women's pre-meet races (purple silver) and two balanced men's pre-meet races (black gold). All other teams, and all overflow individuals will be put into the Furman Invitational races. Each pre-meet race will have 37 teams and NO individuals. COMPLETE Collegiate Fields (Men): Stanford, Washington, Georgia Tech, Alabama, Virginia, Washington State, Columbia, Ball State, Texas, ETSU, UNC Asheville, Oakland (Mich.), Butler, Northern Iowa, Iowa, Youngstown State, Brown, Wake Forest, Marquette, Colorado State, Marshall, Air Force, Brevard, Central Michigan, Dartmouth, Wofford, Cornell, Texas Tech, Oregon, North Carolina, Kentucky, North Greenville, Samford, Michigan State, LaSalle, Guelph, Missouri, Utah, Birmingham Southern, N.C. State, Furman, Villanova, Bucknell, Indiana, Life, Bethune Cookman, Colorado, Arizona State, BYU, Indiana, Montreat, Elon, Princeton, College of Charleston, Belmont, Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Western Kentucky, Radford, Queens, Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Cincinnati, Nofolk State, Eastern Michigan, New Mexico, Georgia, Florida, Weber State, Notre Dame, Winthrop, Davidson, Mercer, Lenoir Rhyne, Miami (Ohio), Clemson, Tennessee, Syracuse, Kent State, Toledo, Georgetown, Florida State, St. Francis (Pa), UNC Charlotte, Emory, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, Savannah State, Richmond, Eastern Illinois, Loyola (Chicago), Tennessee Tech, Ohio State, Creighton, The Citadel, UC-Santa Barbara, UCLA, Minnesota, South Florida, Charleston Southern, Baylor, Virginia Tech COMPLETE Collegiate Field (Women): Missouri, Birmingham Southern, N.C. State, Mississippi State, Furman, BYU, Villanova, Bucknell, IUPUI, Life, Tennessee, Bethune-Cookman, Colorado, Arizona State, College of Charleston, Appalachian State, Western Carolina, Minnesota, Western Kentucky, Queens, Duke, Arizona, Northern Arizona, Elon, Princeton, New Mexico, Georgia, Weber State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Winthrop, Mercer, Pittsburg, Boston College, Lenoir-Rhyne, Yale, Stanford, Miami (Ohio), Columbia, Washington, Indiana, Georgia Tech, South Alabama, Virginia, Texas, Washington State, Columbia, Ball State,
t-and-f: Were Brits DQ'd in M50 Brisbane discus?
Greetings, all Who won the M50 gold medal in the discus at Brisbane WAVA? Two distinctly different sets of results have emerged since the event took place July 10, 2001. The Brisbane Web site at http://www.worldvac2001.com.au/wavaresults/m50dt.htm says Tom Fahey of the USA was first: 1 52424 Fahey, Thomas M53 USA 52.24m 60.23m 84.70% 2 52192 Koca, Vlastimil M52 CZE 48.80m 55.05m 77.41% 3 52575 Telga, Ferenc F M53 HUN 48.04m 55.39m 77.89% 4 52570 Angloupas, StylianM54 GRE 46.88m 55.21m 77.63% 5 52153 Zhurba, ViktorM50 UKR 46.53m 50.19m 70.57% 6 52076 Dekker, Jack RM52 NED 43.17m 48.70m 68.48% 7 52348 Kinadeter, Georg M54 GER 42.53m 50.08m 70.43% 8 52543 Baraldo, Luciano M54 ITA 42.53m 50.08m 70.43% 9 52333 Blume, Hans-JurgenM51 GER 41.46m 45.75m 64.33% 10 52513 Hedendal, Bruce E M53 USA 41.32m 47.64m 66.99% So does Russ Haines, editor of Athletics Courier in Australia, whose results at: http://www.masterstrack.com/meets2001/intl/WAVA2001Field.html say: 1 Thomas Fahey USA 52.24 84.70% 2 Vlastimil Koca CZE 48.80 77.41% 3 Ferenc Telga HUN 48.04 77.89% 4 Stylian Angloupas GRE 46.88 77.63% 5 Viktor Zhurba UKR 46.53 70.57% 6 Jack Dekker NED 43.17 68.48% 7 Georg Kinadeter GER 42.53 70.43% 8 Luciano Baraldo ITA 42.53 70.43% 9 Hans-Jurgen Blume GER 41.46 64.33% 10 Bruce Hedendal USA 41.32 66.99% But National Masters News, in its August 2001 edition that includes complete-as-possible Brisbane results, reports these results: 1. Peter Gordon 50 GBR 56.97m 86.4% 2. Tom Fahey 53 USA 52.24m 84.7% 3. Vlastimil Koca 52 CZE 48.80m 77.4% 4. Neil Griffin53 GBR 48.49m 78.6% 5. Ferenc Telga 53 HU 48.04m 77.8% 6. Stylian Angloupas GRE 46.88 77.63% 7. Viktor Zhurba UKR 46.53 70.57% 8. Jack Dekker NED 43.17 68.48% (NMN doesn't list results past 8th place) The big question: What happened to Britons Peter Gordon (1st in NMN results) and Neil Griffin (4th in NMN results)? The logical answer is: They were disqualified sometime after the fact, and their results were subsequently removed from the public record (but before National Masters News could update its own set). If this isn't merely a results glitch on the part of the Brisbane Organizing Committee (or a mistake on the part of National Masters News), this leads to some serious questions about the DQs. The most obvious that comes to mind is doping -- that results of drug tests at Brisbane found Gordon and Griffin afoul of IAAF anti-doping regimens. Given WMA and IAAF's traditional hesitancy to disclose any information about doping, it's not suprising that these dueling results exist. But if a DQ has in fact taken place, and especially if it involves a doping violation, it is incumbent upon WMA (nay, an obligation) to inform the competitors and the public about the circumstances of this change. Griffin, by the way, was the M50 discus gold medalist at the 1999 Gateshead WAVA meet and Fahey was the silver medalist, thusly: 1 Neil Griffin M51 Great Britain/N. Ir 54.29m 2 Thomas D Fahey M51 United States Of Am 52.66m 3 Stilianos Agloupas M52 Greece 50.69m 4 Ferenc Tegla M52 Hungary 49.42m 5 Luciano BaraldoM52 Italy 47.65m In 1999, Peter Gordon was the M45 discus silver medalist, thusly: 1 Cejza Valent M45 Czech Republic 53.18m 2 Peter Gordon M48 Great Britain/N. Ir 48.97m 3 Sandor Katona M45 France 47.70m 4 Lothar PomgratzM47 Germany 43.67m Anyone out there have information that can shed light on this discrepancy -- and remove any suspicion of taint upon the removed athletes? Thanks muchly. Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Organisers consider Wembley for 2005
The Electronic Telegraph Thursday 11 October 2001 Mihir Bose WEMBLEY as the venue for the 2005 World Athletics Championships is fast becoming sport's equivalent of the abominable snowman - much talked about but unlikely to exist. Following yesterday's revelation in Telegraph Sport that a cut-price Wembley incorporating an athletics track is once again being put forward as a way for London to stage the championships, there have been further moves to push the idea. Yesterday morning Sir Rodney Walker, the chairman of Wembley National Stadium Limited, whose idea it is, had a breakfast meeting at Simpson's with Len Hatton, the chairman of the 2005 organising committee. Hatton left the meeting optimistic that the 2005 championships could still be salvaged. Three years should be enough to rebuild Wembley, he said. Hatton has invested £70,000 in the project and the Government's decision to cancel the Picketts Lock plans and look to Sheffield - an offer rejected by the International Association of Athletics Federations - left him in a difficult situation. He spent last weekend apologising to IAAF officials. Walker has been wrestling with the problem of how to stage athletics at Wembley since he took over as chairman of Wembley in January. By then it was clear that the Picketts Lock development would prove very difficult. Chris Smith, then Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, had removed athletics from the Wembley proposals and promised that the 2005 championships would be staged at Picketts Lock. Walker suggested to Smith that Britain should go back to the IAAF and say that a new Wembley incorporating athletics would be the best solution, but that it would be ready in 2007, not 2005. Smith rejected the idea. With Picketts Lock abandoned by Smith's successors, Walker revived his ideas - retain the Twin Towers and have an athletics track on a cut-price platform - and presented them on Monday to Richard Caborn, the Sports Minister. Caborn said he would pass them on to Patrick Carter, the businessman the Government have called in to advise on Wembley. This is where Walker's problems lie. He may be chairman of Wembley, but it is owned by the Football Association and since Ken Bates was replaced as chairman by Walker the major decisions are being taken by Adam Crozier, the chief executive of the FA. It was Crozier who asked the Government for money to rebuild Wembley, and that brought in Carter. The two men are believed to be working on a plan for a football-only stadium. We may hear more about Wembley staging athletics and somehow saving the 2005 championships, but it remains unlikely to happen. Eamonn Condon www.RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: M50 discus mystery solved: Brisbane messed up
Greetings, all Jacey Octigan of the Brisbane WAVA meet has informed us that the original results of the M50 discus -- as listed by National Masters News showing the Brits in first and fourth -- are correct and that a subsequent posting on the official Brisbane Web site is incorrect. In other words, nobody was DQ'd. This was Jacey's note to Tom Fahey of the United States: We apologise for the error on the website - this file was posted incorrectly and has now come to our attention. The results are as per your medal placing ie Peter received the gold and you the silver. The correct file has now been forwarded to the web master to be updated. Kind regards Jacey Octigan Event Manager Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
