Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Let us remember that marijuana is NOT a performance enhancing drug and not clump this topic in with the epo, nandro, anabolics conversations. -MF > But that violates one of the basic precepts of not only this list, but also of international journalism: "people who are close to you are innocent, everybody else is dirty." > > All the Brits think every nandro positive was an innocent food pollutant; distance runners buy the Baumann toothpaste story, but think that the Kenyans and Ethiopians are EPOians, Americans think Mary Slaney got a raw deal everyone else thinks she cheated, etc., etc. > > gh > >
t-and-f: Haddonfield at Vanny
Netters: Haddonfield joined a select group of teams when it put three runners under 13:00 in winning the A race at the Fordham Eastern boys championships last Saturday at the classic 2.5M Van Cortlandt Park course. And it could have been four. Junior Chris Platt (the Armory site is wrong in labeling him a soph; in fact, he won the soph race last year at the Footlocker trials but will be chasing bigger game this time) and senior Skip Stiles (in his first CC season) came over the line almost together in 12:40, while senior Breton Bonnette ran 3rd in 12:56 in the easy team win. John Bernetich, 4th member of the 4MR team last spring, is still on the injury list. The team average was 13:05 well under the close finish in the Manhattan meet a week earlier between Old Bridge and Bishop Hendricken., Haddonfield is now a strong favorite for the NJ AG title, while Platt and Stiles figure to give Marc Pelerin of Cherokee a run for his money for the individual title. The NJ state meet gets under way this weekend with sectional meets at four sites for the four public school groups. The AG team titles could go to two schools which are practially next door neighbors, Haddonfield for the boys and Moorestown for the girls, though they are in different counties. Haddonfield skipped its county meet last week to rest for the Fordham race 48 hours later. Since uts league does not run an open meet, it has only the three weeks of the state meet---separated by a break on the first weekend of November--on its menu. It has a chance to score a perfect 15 in its sectional meet on Saturday Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Just hope they show up with Kenyan passports as proof of age: 17 years old. malmo > > Great idea about the 2.5 elite race. Brad Hudson's record is > 12:15 We would hope that the record went. Any predictions on > what and who could run what on this historic course!! > > Dan Doherty > > - Original Message - > From: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, > > but to promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass > > roots level try this on for size: > > > > -Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the > classic > > 2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which > > has around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. > > > > -Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure > > there will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over > it. Have it > > in the middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity > > races. When's > the > > last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's > > record fall? > > > > -Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, > > Chorny, Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. > > > > CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given > that USATF is > > starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to > > THE > real > > market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the > > USATF X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done > > before...hey > maybe > > even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon > Champs > > are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be > here, making > > a > 2012 > > Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? > > > > Grote > > adiRP/MMRD > > > > - Original Message - > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM > > Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > > > > I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course > > > races. > > Just not at championship meets. > > > > > > I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in > > > many > > ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. > > > > > > Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter > loops, say > > 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This > might sound > > boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at > the Brussels > cross > > race where the loop was only 1500m. > > > > > > Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, > > > and > team > > places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 > runners. > > It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare > to a world > > class marathoner. > > > sideshow > > > > > > > > >
t-and-f: Masback resignation
The time has come for track and field enthusiasts in the United States to step forward and demand the resignation of Craig Masback. If Masback does not resign, we should appeal to Arne Ljundqvist to start whatever procedures are necessary to remove the USATF as the national governing body of track and field for the United States Of America. These are my observations and my opinion on what Masback has done: In much the same fashion as BASF advertises on national television," We didn't make the (insert product), we made it(stronger,softer,tougher,whatever).",Masback didn't make the drug testing program, he made it function better for the athletes who cheat. He took a system which was in place, and with the help of an Ivy League education and a charming personality put the finishing touches on a program which allows the big cheats to prosper. The program which was in place is fairly well known. The USOC designates a laboratory to do the testing of the athletes and actually enters into a contract with the lab. The USATF must serve as the judge and jury and use the evidence presented by the lab.. Masback,as an attorney, knew from his previous career in defending professional athletes that the Indiana University Laboratory was grossly incompetent.He knew that as long as the USOC continued to use the Indiana University laboratory, or any other incompetent laboratory,the athlete could hire an attorney who would tear apart the evidence presented. Then, he contracted with the American Arbitration Association to hear the cases and thus "distance" the USATF from the proceedings and give the procedure the appearance of impartiality. To represent the USATF, he hired lawyers who would work at a reduced rate or pro bono. Then, with his legal skills well honed, he confused everyone with the conflicts between US statutes, international law,and IAAF procedures. His number one skill, one which is complained about by the IAAF, and one which was undoubtedly learned at Yale, is to stonewall. All is not as it appears. It looks like an independent lab,an independent lawyer to prosecute the case which is heard before an impartial panel. What we HAVE is information handled by a lab(which has since been dismantled) known to mishandle specimens,follow inappropriate procedures, and manipulate data. The case is handled by a lawyer who is working for free.( You draw the conclusion)The A.A.A.has a contract with the USATF to hear the cases, but is handcuffed, by contract, from making the decisions which they want to make. It is obvious from the results of the hearings that Masback pursues cases of ephedrine and caffeine in order to make it look like he is doing something.What a terrific con: go hard on the little stuff so that the big stuff can slide by. The world does not believe that our only drugs are Nyquil,Starbucks, and whatever Marion's ex did. At this point in reading my demand, one might ask how I can say such horrible things about such a nice guy. The answer is first hand experience. I watched a close friend go through the entire procedure, I sat in the hearing room, I watched the representative from the Indiana lab.,I listened to the USATF lawyer, I heard the decision of the A.A.A. panel. I saw the legal bills. I hope that the women distance runners do well in their pursuit of proper testing. I wouldn't expect an answer from Craig. Keep in mind that we were informed that this group of women existed by a foreign newspaper. If we don't have the necessary resolve, then go get him, Arne! Harold Richards >Ever since the Sydney Olympics, the imperfections of the drug-testing >systems within USATF, the American athletics federation, have been the >subject of considerable disapproval from the IAAF, the world governing >body. > >Meanwhile, Arne Ljungqvist, senior vice-president of the IAAF, is back >carrying the fight to USATF. It remains the case that there was one member >of the American track team who competed in the Sydney Olympics despite >having failed a drugs test and Ljungqvist has still not managed to squeeze >out of the USATF either the identity of the athlete or the reasons behind >this athlete's exoneration. "They simply do not respond," he said. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
I agree Robbie. I don't see how anyone can argue with that. Mike >From: "Philip Pinkowsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Philip Pinkowsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "ROBERT J HOWELL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:59:48 -0500 > >Don't forget Tim Hacker of Wisconsin who won the '85 XC title. He usually >made the 1500m finals at the OT too. > >Philip Pinkowsky >M43 Middle Distances >Cedarburg, WI USA > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ROBERT J HOWELL >Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:28 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > >I just don't get it. I'm sure I've read a post that was more >condescending than the one RANDY TREADWAY wrote here, but I just can't >remember it right now. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got >one. You've got your opinion. It happens to be wrong, but that's no >reason to be a jerk. So before you call somebody CHILDREN, think about >what you're saying. > >Now some people on the list have argued that the two race format will be >more exciting and broaden participation. Whether it will be more exciting >I think will depend on who we ask. I'm not sure either, that it will >broaden participation. Most true 800 guys will not want to run cross, >unless the cross race is 800m or shorter. Most true 1500 guys run cross >even though the 10k is all there is. There are exceptions. I remember >former NCAA 800m champ Bryan Woodward kicking down one of my old unamed >friends over 10k in the old IC4A JV race. I've always been of the opinion >that every 800 guy should run cross, but maybe that's why I'm not the >coach. But I digress. Most 800 guys like to lift weights and take it >easy in the fall. > >RANDY says that "IT'S NOT ABOUT SPLITTING UP >NATIONALS." I suppose to some extent, everything is relative. So for >RANDY, as he made abundantly clear, it's not about >splitting up nationals. Why he chose to make fun of those who believe >otherwise...I don't know. > >But as for me, I want to see the real DI NCAA championships. If they >split the race, every rational 800/1500 guy who used to run 10k will >probably run the shorter distance. I did a little digging, and here are a >list of some guys who finaled in the 1500 at some point at NCAAs outdoors >and were also an All-American in cross. > >Graham Hood >John Wild >Jonah Kiptarus >Andy Downin >Bob Keino >Michael Power >Kevin Sullivan >Eric Kamau >Seneca Lassiter >Bernard Lagat >Bryan Berryhill >Daniel Kinyua >Brendan Rodgers >Sharif Karie >James Karanu >Adrian Blincoe >David Kimani > >I'm not sure what RANDY is thinking, but I think that having these guys >run in some short race would make Cross Country less fun. But I know, >Alan Webb is the exception, not the rule. > >Remember, this is by no means a complete list of 1500 type guys that >gutted it out over 10k or had some part in their team's success. For >example, as the 85th finisher in 1997 in Greenville, I was NC State's 5th >man. We got 6th place. Maybe, I could have been an All-American if I had >run in a short cross country race. Bob Henes is going to choke on his >lunch at the thought of having less competition but more All-Americans. > >I know this is going a little long, but a lot of you might appreciate >this. Can't you imagine John L. Parker wrting the first few chapters >over again. Only this time, Quenton Cassidy, the ultimate miler, and >Jerry Mizner don't go on long runs together because Quenton is doing the >short race. Instead of Mizner pulling away from Cassidy in the first >race of the season, we could just let Cassidy cheer along side. Wow, >that would be really exciting! In turn, Mize could cheer for Cassidy when >he wins his race, and they would both be winners. Yeah! Winners of >what?? Who cares? And as for the silly, poetic notion of a runner like >Quenton toughing it out at something that's not his ideal >distance? Phooey! That's just a story. > >We should see if Parker can put out an amended version, "Once a Short >Course Runner." > >In 1998 Brad Hauser won the 10k on the track in Buffalo. Earlier that >fall, he got 10th at NCAA Cross. He got beat by both Sullivan and >Bernard Lagat. And the only reason you got to see those three race is >because Cross Country is run the way it is. NCAA Cross is the best race >all year because everybody's in the same race. Change it and you'll ruin >it. > >See you in Greenville, > >Robbie > >RANDY wrote this: > > > you guys have it all wrong, it's not about splitting up nationals, > > in fact you're making ME sick with all your whining. > > > > It's not about splitting up nationals. > > IT'S NOT ABOUT SPLITTING UP NATIONALS. > > > > NOW REPEAT AFTER ME CHILDREN, "It's not about splitting up nationals.." > > > > ...now write that fifty times on the chalkboard. > _
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
In a message dated 10/24/01 1:43:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << That's also assuming he's found guilty. He's entitled to a presumption of >innocence in a court of law. We should treat him as well on the list and not ignore the possibility that he may not be sentenced at all because he may not be convicted.> But that violates one of the basic precepts of not only this list, but also of international journalism: "people who are close to you are innocent, everybody else is dirty." All the Brits think every nandro positive was an innocent food pollutant; distance runners buy the Baumann toothpaste story, but think that the Kenyans and Ethiopians are EPOians, Americans think Mary Slaney got a raw deal everyone else thinks she cheated, etc., etc. gh
RE: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Don't forget Tim Hacker of Wisconsin who won the '85 XC title. He usually made the 1500m finals at the OT too. Philip Pinkowsky M43 Middle Distances Cedarburg, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ROBERT J HOWELL Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate I just don't get it. I'm sure I've read a post that was more condescending than the one RANDY TREADWAY wrote here, but I just can't remember it right now. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. You've got your opinion. It happens to be wrong, but that's no reason to be a jerk. So before you call somebody CHILDREN, think about what you're saying. Now some people on the list have argued that the two race format will be more exciting and broaden participation. Whether it will be more exciting I think will depend on who we ask. I'm not sure either, that it will broaden participation. Most true 800 guys will not want to run cross, unless the cross race is 800m or shorter. Most true 1500 guys run cross even though the 10k is all there is. There are exceptions. I remember former NCAA 800m champ Bryan Woodward kicking down one of my old unamed friends over 10k in the old IC4A JV race. I've always been of the opinion that every 800 guy should run cross, but maybe that's why I'm not the coach. But I digress. Most 800 guys like to lift weights and take it easy in the fall. RANDY says that "IT'S NOT ABOUT SPLITTING UP NATIONALS." I suppose to some extent, everything is relative. So for RANDY, as he made abundantly clear, it's not about splitting up nationals. Why he chose to make fun of those who believe otherwise...I don't know. But as for me, I want to see the real DI NCAA championships. If they split the race, every rational 800/1500 guy who used to run 10k will probably run the shorter distance. I did a little digging, and here are a list of some guys who finaled in the 1500 at some point at NCAAs outdoors and were also an All-American in cross. Graham Hood John Wild Jonah Kiptarus Andy Downin Bob Keino Michael Power Kevin Sullivan Eric Kamau Seneca Lassiter Bernard Lagat Bryan Berryhill Daniel Kinyua Brendan Rodgers Sharif Karie James Karanu Adrian Blincoe David Kimani I'm not sure what RANDY is thinking, but I think that having these guys run in some short race would make Cross Country less fun. But I know, Alan Webb is the exception, not the rule. Remember, this is by no means a complete list of 1500 type guys that gutted it out over 10k or had some part in their team's success. For example, as the 85th finisher in 1997 in Greenville, I was NC State's 5th man. We got 6th place. Maybe, I could have been an All-American if I had run in a short cross country race. Bob Henes is going to choke on his lunch at the thought of having less competition but more All-Americans. I know this is going a little long, but a lot of you might appreciate this. Can't you imagine John L. Parker wrting the first few chapters over again. Only this time, Quenton Cassidy, the ultimate miler, and Jerry Mizner don't go on long runs together because Quenton is doing the short race. Instead of Mizner pulling away from Cassidy in the first race of the season, we could just let Cassidy cheer along side. Wow, that would be really exciting! In turn, Mize could cheer for Cassidy when he wins his race, and they would both be winners. Yeah! Winners of what?? Who cares? And as for the silly, poetic notion of a runner like Quenton toughing it out at something that's not his ideal distance? Phooey! That's just a story. We should see if Parker can put out an amended version, "Once a Short Course Runner." In 1998 Brad Hauser won the 10k on the track in Buffalo. Earlier that fall, he got 10th at NCAA Cross. He got beat by both Sullivan and Bernard Lagat. And the only reason you got to see those three race is because Cross Country is run the way it is. NCAA Cross is the best race all year because everybody's in the same race. Change it and you'll ruin it. See you in Greenville, Robbie RANDY wrote this: > you guys have it all wrong, it's not about splitting up nationals, > in fact you're making ME sick with all your whining. > > It's not about splitting up nationals. > IT'S NOT ABOUT SPLITTING UP NATIONALS. > > NOW REPEAT AFTER ME CHILDREN, "It's not about splitting up nationals.." > > ...now write that fifty times on the chalkboard.
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
when the women in the us began running xc it was the 1.5 mile bridge to bridge loop at van cortlandt in 1962!!!
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Great idea about the 2.5 elite race. Brad Hudson's record is 12:15 We would hope that the record went. Any predictions on what and who could run what on this historic course!! Dan Doherty - Original Message - From: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:20 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, but to > promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass roots level try > this on for size: > > -Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the classic > 2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which has > around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. > > -Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure there > will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over it. Have it in the > middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity races. When's the > last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's record > fall? > > -Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, > Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. > > CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given that USATF is > starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to THE real > market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the USATF > X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done before...hey maybe > even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon Champs > are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be here, making a 2012 > Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? > > Grote > adiRP/MMRD > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM > Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. > Just not at championship meets. > > > > I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many > ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. > > > > Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say > 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound > boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross > race where the loop was only 1500m. > > > > Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team > places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It > might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class > marathoner. > > sideshow > > > >
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, Rogers, Meb, Shame on any of them who dare run 2.5 mile XC. Shame on Grote for such unclean thoughts! malmo >Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, but to >promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass roots level try >this on for size: > >-Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the classic >2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which has >around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. > >-Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure there >will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over it. Have it in the >middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity races. When's the >last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's record >fall? > >-Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, >Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. > >CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given that USATF is >starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to THE real >market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the USATF >X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done before...hey maybe >even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon Champs >are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be here, making a 2012 >Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? > >Grote >adiRP/MMRD > >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM >Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > >> I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. >Just not at championship meets. >> >> I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many >ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. >> >> Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say >1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound >boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross >race where the loop was only 1500m. >> >> Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team >places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It >might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class >marathoner. >> sideshow >> > > >
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, but to promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass roots level try this on for size: -Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the classic 2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which has around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. -Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure there will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over it. Have it in the middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity races. When's the last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's record fall? -Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given that USATF is starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to THE real market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the USATF X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done before...hey maybe even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon Champs are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be here, making a 2012 Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. Just not at championship meets. > > I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. > > Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross race where the loop was only 1500m. > > Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class marathoner. > sideshow >
t-and-f: Drummond custody status
Someone sent me a private email indicating Drummond bailed out last night. The LA County Sheriff's Booking Information still lists him as being in custody: http://pajis.lasd.org/details.cfm?BNA_BOOKING_NO=7058461 __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
>I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. Just not at championship meets. I was thinking the same. >I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many ways. Adding a short course race is only one >of them. An Eikiden-type format could be fun, as well. I'm thinking of Van Cortlandt Park, right now. For those who are familiar with the standard 5-mile course: Leg 1 - Around the field (just short of 1 mile, open flat grass) Leg 2 - Cow path and back hills back to the field (a hilly 2 mile leg) Leg 3 - Around the field to top of Cemetery Hill (1 1/2 miles, leg 1 followed by a steep climb) Leg 4 - Descend Cemetery, back to field, to finishing stretch (about 1/2 mile, at a blazing pace). THAT would be a blast to watch... Phil
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
In a message dated 10/24/01 1:43:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << That's also assuming he's found guilty. He's entitled to a presumption of innocence in a court of law. We should treat him as well on the list and not ignore the possibility that he may not be sentenced at all because he may not be convicted. Bob H>> Amen to that...things are not always as they seem. Walt Murphy
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
>Punishment seems awful harsh. In Massachusetts he would be asked to donate >a >pint of blood, given a slap on the wrist and lecture school children about >drugs! Why would the people in Massachusetts want to have their medical blood supply muddied up with blood from people convicted of owning, and presumably using, illegal drugs? Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Message text written by Seb Geb Meb Webb > Drummond is still in custody as of Wednesday 8:30 am PDT under LA County Jail Booking number 7058461. Unless he bails out today, he will be arraigned tomorrow. Transportation of marijuana is a felony, punishable by a maximum of 4 years in state prison. However, if one has no prior record, the normal sentencing range would call for 3 years probation with approximately 90 to 120 days in county jail. If Drummond can get the charge reduced to straight possession or, at worst, possession for the purpose of sales, he could wind up with less or even no jail time, assuming he is a first-time offender. < That's also assuming he's found guilty. He's entitled to a presumption of innocence in a court of law. We should treat him as well on the list and not ignore the possibility that he may not be sentenced at all because he may not be convicted. Bob H
RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Article
Hey track fans - I have an idea! Instead of the simple long vs. short XC debate, let's try this: five race distances for cross country. Cool! For those who run the 800m in the spring, let's have a cross country race course that's, say, 800m long. Start on a one-turn stagger. Put gentle undulations on it. And for the 1500 track runners, the XC race distance could be, oh, 1500m long. Steeplers could run over hill and dale for 3000m without those pesky barriers. Are you with me? Yes, the 5000m track runners would run 5k -- and only 5k -- in the fall. Know how a track meet ends with 4x4 relay fireworks? Well, cross country meets could end with the track 10k runners running a 10k cross country race, after we've already contested the cross country races at 800m, 1500m, 3000m and 5000m. Exciting! We wouldn't want someone running too long or too short. They might not be ready for that distance, the coach says, because a) their body can't safely run it, or b) they don't really train for that distance. Let's make it jst right. And the teammates of the victor in the 1500m cross country race could watch and cheer and celebrate their teammate's 1500m harrier win. Yay! I'm remembering now that was indeed the main reason I ran cross country in college. And my stud teammate in college was oh-so-disappointed that he couldn't celebrate his individual victory with me because I was still out plodding on the course with 60 seconds to go in my own race. Drats. People, we don't need multiple races. We do this in track already. Cross country should be one race, one race, one race. The NCAA justification supplied in the NCAA News article is simply lame, at best. The IAAF decision to go to two distances was a misguided concession, I think, that intended to bring more of a spotlight to cross country by increasing the number of stars (read: milers) in the major events for publicity and media attention. Has this been successful? If so, in whose eyes? Are there more entrants? Are there more stars? What are the benefits? Or has it damaged the sport through dilution? Since the IAAF has already tried it, these questions should be answered before anybody below (USATF, NCAA) makes any changes. Kirk Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pomona-Pitzer College (CA) -Original Message- From: Michael J. Roth To: T&F Listserve Sent: 10/22/01 5:42 PM Subject: t-and-f: NCAA XC Article The NCAA News -- October 22, 2001 BY SCOTT DEITCH STAFF WRITER .Proponents of a dual-race option argue that in many cases, the top finishers in collegiate cross country races do not share those exciting few moments after crossing the line with their teammates because most of them are still competing on the course. "A runner who has never seen a teammate win a race would now get the chance to witness it and share in the excitement," said Don Nichter, Dickinson College men's and women's cross country coach and a former chair of the NCAA Men's and Women's Track and Field Committee's Division III subcommittee..
t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. Just not at championship meets. I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross race where the loop was only 1500m. Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class marathoner. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Netters Paul wrote > Always sad when someone has to resort to dealing drugs to support their > track habit. Maybe closer to the truth then you know. Recall the 94 Common Wealth Games, if you will. Horace Dove Edwin, finished second to Linford in the 100 then got busted for stanzanol. I and everyone else in Lagrange knew him as T'Pipps. he was a great guy to be around and your would never expect that a poor sprinter from Sierrea Leone would be doing steriods. But he was and he had new jeep too. Odd, that. His room mate was from somewhere else in africa and T'Pipps always had plenty of money. His room mate was busted for heroin coming into Atlanta. He had in condoms and was caught sallowing them. In the ensuing apartment raid the local police found viles in T'Pipps room. Some were B-12, some where stanzy. I knew the asst. DA at the time. In the end he never pursued the potential charges against T'Pipps mostly because it would have caused more of a ruckus and potential ruined the program before the City of Lagange reaped it's post Atlanta wind fall:). Why say this now? Cause it doesn't matter any more and it's a slow morning. Not to mention that while I don't have enough runners for one team, I can say splitting the races will stop those coaches whining about how 6k is too hard for women at the D3 level. They ought to be running 8k just like the men! Michael Rohl Head Coach X-C, T&F Mansfield University
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Punishment seems awful harsh. In Massachusetts he would be asked to donate a pint of blood, given a slap on the wrist and lecture school children about drugs! NeTrack
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Drummond is still in custody as of Wednesday 8:30 am PDT under LA County Jail Booking number 7058461. Unless he bails out today, he will be arraigned tomorrow. Transportation of marijuana is a felony, punishable by a maximum of 4 years in state prison. However, if one has no prior record, the normal sentencing range would call for 3 years probation with approximately 90 to 120 days in county jail. If Drummond can get the charge reduced to straight possession or, at worst, possession for the purpose of sales, he could wind up with less or even no jail time, assuming he is a first-time offender. SGMW --- "P.F.Talbot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Always sad when someone has to resort to dealing > drugs to support their > track habit. > > On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Post, Marty wrote: > > > > > Olympic gold medalist Jon Drummond was arrested > Tuesday for investigation of > > transporting marijuana through Los Angeles > International Airport. > > more at > > > > > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/athletics/news/2001/10/23/drummond_arrested > > _ap/ > > > > Marty Post > > Senior Editor > > Runner's World Magazine > > www.runnersworld.com > > > > > > *** > Paul Talbot > Department of Geography/ > Institute of Behavioral Science > University of Colorado, Boulder > Boulder CO 80309-0260 > (303) 492-3248 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Marty wrote: >Olympic gold medalist Jon Drummond was arrested Tuesday for investigation of >transporting marijuana through Los Angeles International Airport. >more at Don't check my bags if you please, Mr. Customs Man... a) I'm sorry, but given the state of airport security these days, WHO in their right mind would try to smuggle any contraband via air? b) This brings to mind an interesting question - track spikes. I'll bet that very few traveling athletes risk their spikes to the whims of airport baggage handlers, but are these going to fall in the category of exacto knives and such that one is going to have a hard time ever getting into the passenger compartment again? Phil
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Ahhh yes, but the operative question is did he inhale?? - MF Mike Fanelli "your San Francisco Bay Area real estate resource" Pacific Union Real Estate Group Ltd. (415) 447 - 6254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.SFabode.com www.MarinHouseHunting.com - Original Message - From: Post, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:20 AM Subject: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust > > Olympic gold medalist Jon Drummond was arrested Tuesday for investigation of > transporting marijuana through Los Angeles International Airport. > more at > > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/athletics/news/2001/10/23/drummond_arrested > _ap/ > > Marty Post > Senior Editor > Runner's World Magazine > www.runnersworld.com > > >
Re: t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Always sad when someone has to resort to dealing drugs to support their track habit. On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Post, Marty wrote: > > Olympic gold medalist Jon Drummond was arrested Tuesday for investigation of > transporting marijuana through Los Angeles International Airport. > more at > > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/athletics/news/2001/10/23/drummond_arrested > _ap/ > > Marty Post > Senior Editor > Runner's World Magazine > www.runnersworld.com > > *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Nice recovery! JL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >I just don't get it. I'm sure I've read a post that was more > >condescending than the one RANDY TREADWAY > ..yada, yada, yada > > Now THAT'S a sample of the distance vs non-distance debates > that people say they miss from the 'good old days' of the > beginning of this list back in '94-95. > > Not a word about doping in the entire thread. > Not a single squabble about the USATF or the British Federation. > > Just pure, unadulterated college-level BS. > > That's right, we've returned to the 'good old days'. > > Do I really care one way or another about two races versus > one single long cross race? Of course not. > Or who qualifies at large in regionals versus pre-Nat's? > Couldn't care less. > Or whether 800 runners are chicken-assed if they can't > compete effectively at a he-man's race like a 10K cross? > Not a bit. My chicken-ass was faster in its prime than most > people's lard-ass anyway :-) > > If the NCAA wiped out cross country entirely, > would it be any different than a tree falling in the woods with > nobody there to hear it? > I don't know the answer to that question. For that matter, > I'm not really all that INTERESTED in the answer to that > question. > > But I DID draw out some people to address both sides of issues > and supporting rationale rather than just keep spouting the > '10K cross runners are on the only masculine people on the > planet' mantra, didn't I? > > hee hee, a little bluster and condescension smokes 'em out > every time... > > RT
t-and-f: Jon Drummond arrested in marijuana bust
Olympic gold medalist Jon Drummond was arrested Tuesday for investigation of transporting marijuana through Los Angeles International Airport. more at http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/athletics/news/2001/10/23/drummond_arrested _ap/ Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
