t-and-f: Indoor/Outdoor Records
Earlier today, Kris Grimes originated a new thread (Indoor American Junior Record) by asking, "Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records?" Garry responded with, "uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either?" I take it that he means that since there are no World Indoor Junior Records, it follows that there cannot be any American Indoor Junior Records. If so, it might be observed that the two don't necessarily coincide. With that, I'd like to broaden the focus of the discussion a bit; hence, the new subject line. It always has been the case, of course, that national federations can recognize marks as national records that are not, for one reason or another, recognized by the IAAF as world records. I understand that a new dimension of that variance in definition is that, as of 2001, the IAAF recognizes a blended category of indoor and outdoor world record improvements while USATF will continue to recognize separate categories of American indoor records and American outdoor records. This change for IAAF apparently originates in an interpretation of its Rule 260.6 to mean that an absolute "world record" can now be set at a facility "with or without a roof." Previously, marks set indoors were not accepted as bettering world records. For example, both Warmerdam and Bubka vaulted slightly higher indoors, but their official world records were their outdoor bests. Under the new interpretation, outdoor marks will not be recognized as world records unless they are better than the corresponding indoor best. For example, on 27 April, vaulting at Pocatello, Stacy Dragila bettered her outdoor world record of 4.63m (set at Sacramento, 23 July 2000), first with 4.66m, then with 4.70m. In off-list correspondence, I'm told that the 4.66m will not be considered for a world record because she had a better *indoor* mark, 4.70m at Pocatello on 17 February 2001. Also off-list, I've been told that both the 4.66 and the 4.70 qualify as American outdoor records. Since neither the IAAF nor USATF website includes record progressions, I've been unable to confirm this information. If correct, it leads to an interesting further observation. If it now is possible to set a world record at a facility "with or without a roof" and thus to set a world record on a raised, wood runway "with a roof," what would be the rationale for disallowing a world record set on a raised, wood runway "without a roof;" specifically, in "beach vault" or "market square" venues? If I remember correctly, Dragila's 4.70m mark at the 2000 Santa Barbara Beach Vault bettered both the world indoor and outdoor records but was not accepted by either the IAAF or USATF. Would it be by either, under the new definitions? As one further complication, apparently the IAAF intends to continue the category of World Indoor Record and it will be possible to set a world indoor record that is inferior to the world outdoor record, but not to set an world outdoor record that is inferior to the world indoor record. Wouldn't it be simpler, and more defensible, to continue to recognize indoor and outdoor records as achieved under differing circumstances--at both world and national levels?
Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? > uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either? gh < And cuz there's no competition in that category, although juniors do run indoors. bh
Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
At 08:52 PM 11/15/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >-Original Message- >From: Kris Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:41 AM >Subject: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record > > >>Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? >> >>KG >> >Ken: >My gues would be it's because there is no indoor junior >championship. It would be wquite a project for some staistician. >Ed Grant I would be a job to verify the records but our neighbors to the north and quite a few other nations seem to get it done with smaller budgets...I can't imagine that there would be that many records broken every year. Kris
t-and-f: Watkins to South Carolina
Netters: Tawana Watkins of Paterson kennedy will be signing with the University of South Carolina on Minday according to a story in today's Newark Star-Ledger She is one of the outstanding propects in the nation this year, with a 57.48 victory in the 400H at the National Scholastic meet last June and a 2:09.5 in the 800M last winter in her only serious individual try at that distance (She had a 2:10 relay leg outdoors, but no individual starts in open meets where her menu is the 200, 400 and 400H) Tawana has an amazing range, being a top-class runner in the sprints and not at all a bad cross-country runner with times just over 20:00 on championship course. She shut down CC early this fall, however, not running her county meet of the state meet to prepare for the indoor and outdoor campaigns. She is a very nice youngster who has had careful handling from veteran coach Ken Samra (who stayed on past his intended retirement to guide her through the last two years) I also have learned that Jen Whitlock of Montclair will be going to the University of Arizona. She is also a versatile runner with top marks in both sprints and the 100Hs. Butr her future may be in the 400 and 400H as well as she had a 54.9 relay leg last summer in the Junior Olympics---she has never run this distance seriously in HS, but I expect she she will this year. Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
It's a track thing I guess because... 2001 Indoor Long Jump Men # 1 7.98m Out # 1 8.00m, Women In #16 6.11 Out #6 6.33. HJ Men In #2 2.25, Out #9 2.19, Women #15 Indoor1.80, Out T16 1.84. If the Tracks were not so complicated there would be records... what it sounds like to me since the other arguments don't hold water. Kris At 02:54 PM 11/15/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Pole vault is one of the few events that carries no advantage outdoors >other than time of year (periodization). > >Dan > >--- Kris Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Of course...smaller track etc. Besides compare apples to apples >> ...speed >> and field events? For example the best American Junior mark indoors is >> 4.20 >> (t-5th on world list) vs. 4.21(4th on the world list) for outdoors in >> the >> women's PV. Men's junior PV our best vaulter jumped 5.18 and was tied >> for >> 11th indoors on the world list in 2001 our best vaulter jumped 5.18 and >> was >> tied for 22nd Outdoors. >> >> >> >> At 12:35 PM 11/15/2001 -0500, you wrote: >> >The IAAF 2000 World Junior Championships Handbook had a list of "World >> >Junior Indoor Best Performances" for all the standard indoor events. A >> few >> >of them - e.g men's mile, women's mile, men's 3000m - were held by >> >Americans. Lots of these best performances are rather pathetic compared >> to >> >WJR at comparable outdoor event. >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:36 AM >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record >> > >> > >> >In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> Kris >> >Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > >> >> Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior >> Records? >> >> >> > >> >uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either? >> > >> >gh >> > > >= >http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. >http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) >_/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) > / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals >http://personals.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers
http://www.grammarbook.com/ See "periods and ellipses" -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robert Hersh Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 7:25 AM To: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ...think of it in different terms ...to connect with a recent thread on this list, I've been 'tapering' for my marathon debut for the last 20 years or so...but surely I need another 10-15 years at it... ...gotta be careful, if I over-taper I might fall off the couch...on the other hand, if I ever say I'm "ready", I might have to actually DO something... < Randy -- I'm sorry to see that you've joined the three dot brigade. You should know that I never read anything written in this form. It is disjointed writing, which suggests disjointed thinking. And it's difficult to read. By the way, I'm not the only list subscriber who ignores three dot writing. I know this because I've mentioned this point to some track friends who have the same reaction. So if you want to keep writing that way, by all means do so, but do so knowing that some people find it annoying and a significant subset of those people will simply ignore what you've written. Bob H
RE: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
Of course...smaller track etc. Besides compare apples to apples ...speed and field events? For example the best American Junior mark indoors is 4.20 (t-5th on world list) vs. 4.21(4th on the world list) for outdoors in the women's PV. Men's junior PV our best vaulter jumped 5.18 and was tied for 11th indoors on the world list in 2001 our best vaulter jumped 5.18 and was tied for 22nd Outdoors. At 12:35 PM 11/15/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The IAAF 2000 World Junior Championships Handbook had a list of "World >Junior Indoor Best Performances" for all the standard indoor events. A few >of them - e.g men's mile, women's mile, men's 3000m - were held by >Americans. Lots of these best performances are rather pathetic compared to >WJR at comparable outdoor event. > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:36 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record > > >In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kris >Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? >> > >uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either? > >gh
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
bye boys- have fun storming the castle. I'm going to have some MLT(mutton lettuce and tomato--where the mutton is nice and lean) -Original Message- From: Michael Rohl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, November 15, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: The re-run > > I thought the 2 rules were: > > > > 1. Never get into a land war with Asia and... > > 2. Never get into it with a Sicilian when DEATH IS ON THE LINE!> > > I don't think that word means that you theenk it means. :-) netters, "I can't help it if I'm the biggest and the strongest; I don't even excersise.!" Michael
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
> > I thought the 2 rules were: > > > > 1. Never get into a land war with Asia and... > > 2. Never get into it with a Sicilian when DEATH IS ON THE LINE!> > > I don't think that word means that you theenk it means. :-) netters, "I can't help it if I'm the biggest and the strongest; I don't even excersise.!" Michael
t-and-f: Potts Library - IV
Well gang, I have sorted through some more stuff and can offer the following material for sale. First, many thanks for helping me with this stuff; the Potts' family is most appreciative. As per the norm, most of these books are in great shape, some showing just a little wear (these were Don's personal use copies). And clearly, as always, these prices are well below the true value. ATFS Annuals: 1979 - 2 - Scarce - 17.00 1980 - 3 - Scarce - 17.00 1981 - 4 - 13.00 1982 - 3 - 13.00 1983 - 4 - 13.00 1984 - 3 - 13.00 Also and obviously, all of these are scarce: Potts-RLQ All Time World List 1961 - 5 - 15.00 Potts-RLQ All Time World List 1972 - 5 - 15.00 Potts-RLQ ATFS Olympic Handbook 1960 - 6 - 15.00 (One of these is comb bound) Please add 3.00 postage for 1-2 books, 5.00 for 3-4 and 7.00 for more than 4 and I will ship by priority mail and take care of all the rest. Checks payable to me. Many thanks. Stay tuned..more to come! Scott Davis, 4432 Snowbird Circle, Cerritos, CA. 90703
RE: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
The IAAF 2000 World Junior Championships Handbook had a list of "World Junior Indoor Best Performances" for all the standard indoor events. A few of them - e.g men's mile, women's mile, men's 3000m - were held by Americans. Lots of these best performances are rather pathetic compared to WJR at comparable outdoor event. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kris Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? > uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either? gh
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:23:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I thought the 2 rules were: > > 1. Never get into a land war with Asia and... > 2. Never get into it with a Sicilian when DEATH IS ON THE LINE!> I'm not left-handed. :-)
t-and-f: NCAA XC TV?
Anyone know of any coverage, w/ satellite coordinates if possible? Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:23:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I thought the 2 rules were: > > 1. Never get into a land war with Asia and... > 2. Never get into it with a Sicilian when DEATH IS ON THE LINE!> I don't think that word means that you theenk it means. :-) gh
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
sorry guys, that last e-mail was not supposed to go to you. I must have clicked on the wrong e-mail. Damn coffee, Matt Pelletier
Re: t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
In a message dated Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kris Grimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? > uh, cuz there's no World Records in that category either? gh
Re: t-and-f: The re-run
I thought the 2 rules were: 1. Never get into a land war with Asia and... 2. Never get into it with a Sicilian when DEATH IS ON THE LINE! ~P
t-and-f: Indoor American Junior Record
Is there a good reason why there are no indoor American Junior Records? KG
Re: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ...think of it in different terms ...to connect with a recent thread on this list, I've been 'tapering' for my marathon debut for the last 20 years or so...but surely I need another 10-15 years at it... ...gotta be careful, if I over-taper I might fall off the couch...on the other hand, if I ever say I'm "ready", I might have to actually DO something... < Randy -- I'm sorry to see that you've joined the three dot brigade. You should know that I never read anything written in this form. It is disjointed writing, which suggests disjointed thinking. And it's difficult to read. By the way, I'm not the only list subscriber who ignores three dot writing. I know this because I've mentioned this point to some track friends who have the same reaction. So if you want to keep writing that way, by all means do so, but do so knowing that some people find it annoying and a significant subset of those people will simply ignore what you've written. Bob H
Re: t-and-f: conditioning (was: marathon qualifiers)
What all the previous posters are talking about is what goes on in practice. A miler only goes a mile on race day. You certainly can't compare that to what he/she would do in training. Regards, Martin Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:19:04 -0500 From: "Geoff Pietsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: t-and-f: conditioning (was: marathon qualifiers Garry must watch a different NBA than the one I'm familiar with. Yes, those guys are definitely great athletes - Garry may be right that they are the greatest athletes on the planet - BUT they sure don't run that much. "Nonstop forever"??? Well... except for time-outs (is there anything longer than the last minute of a basketball game?) and foul shots and out-of-bounds plus the ever-boring halfcourt offenses, which often amount to one guy going one-on-one, backing in, while the others stand around and watch. Fast breaks are very rare in the pros - the "maximal sprint speed" Garry mentions - and even then, only a few of the players are involved; the rest are trailers. Is it any wonder those 48 minute games take two hours - or more. Another poster referred to the MYTH that basketball players run 10K every night. No way. I think the myth started when some guy wore a pedometer during a game. The problem: The pedometer counts strides, so the distance is calculated by multiplying the number of strides times the inputted stride length. The miscalculation occurs because a typical stride length - 7'-8'? - is inputted, yet much of basketball is short, choppy strides and boncing almost in place while covering an opponent. GP >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: t-and-f: conditioning (was: marathon qualifiers >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:09:36 EST > >In a message dated Mon, 12 Nov 2001 7:46:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, >"alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I used to play basketball for an hour or more after an hour run in high >school. Believe me, basketball is nothing in terms of conditioning.>> > >well, therre's basketball, and there's BASKETBALL, and in the latter, you >can run nonstop forever, some of it at jogging speed, some of it at maximal >sprint speed (now there's an interval workout), mixed in with multiple >maximal vertical leaps and a bit of wrestling thrown in on the side. An >hour run can't compare with the conditioning you get from an hour of >high-intensity basketball. > >There's no doubt in my mind that the NBA guys are the greatest athletes on >the planet, bar none. (even if hockey players expend even more energy) > >gh
