Re: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
That's it. 7:32.1 in Oslo on 27 June 1978. Rudy Chapa of the Ducks is #2 at 7:37.70 in Eugene on 10 May 1979. Scott Davis
RE: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
Legit? I'll say. One of his five world records. Presumably, it was a collegiate record. ;) malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Geoff Thurner Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k? i'm adding a line to the record section (world/american/collegiate/hayward field/school) of the oregon track and field media guide and was wondering if there was an official men's outdoor collegiate 3,000 record supposedly henry rono from washington state ran 7:32.1 in 1978 -- but i wanted to confirm that mark as legitimate before i published it (or in case there was a faster mark) anybody know of any better collegiate marks? thanks, g Geoff Thurner Assistant Director/Publications Coordinator University of Oregon Media Services - Athletics Len Casanova Center 2727 Leo Harris Parkway Eugene, OR 97401 Phone: (541) 346-2250 Fax: (541) 346-5449 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.goducks.com GO DUCKS!! - GO DUCKS!! - GO DUCKS!!
t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
Message text written by Geoff Thurner i'm adding a line to the record section (world/american/collegiate/hayward field/school) of the oregon track and field media guide and was wondering if there was an official men's outdoor collegiate 3,000 record The key word here, which Scott, Walter, and Malmo seem to have ignored or glossed over, is official. There are no official collegiate records. Bob H
t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF)
In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. Incidentally, I recall reading in an interview that his film contracts stipulated that he had to have at least one scene in which he was running (and I think that's true). IMHO, his movie based on the Dipsea (I think it's titled Running Free) is one of the Top 10 running flicks ever, partly b/c Dern looks so believable as a runner. If you watch it and don't want to go out for a hard 10 mile trail run, you need to check your pulse. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Fw: t-and-f: Famous people/(Bruce Dern)
The movie being referenced is called On the Edge. It is based upon the Dipsea Race, a point-to-point 7.6 mile extremely vertical trail race that, since 1905 has run from downtown Mill Valley to the Pacific Ocean at Stinson Beach...via Mt. Tamalpais. Garry Bjorklund is in the movie and one of the directors is Roy Kissin. Mike Fanelli your San Francisco Bay Area real estate resource Pacific Union Real Estate Group Ltd. (415) 447 - 6254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.SFabode.com www.MarinHouseHunting.com - Original Message - From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:23 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people in TF (Bruce Dern) Bruce Dern was a serious runner in HS, don't know what he accomplished (if anything) at Penn. He used to run a mile time trial every year on his birthday, attempting to beat his HS PR. I read that about 15 years ago. He also starred in a movie about an aging runner competing to win the Dipsea Race, a NorCal trail race from the mountains to the ocean. I think this was (is?) a real race (someone will know) held in the Bay Area with a long history. I think he ran a good 880 in HS and something like a 4:48 for a mile. That was his target to beat in the birthday time trial. This was all in a feature in Runner magazine a long time ago. More than you wanted to know, Brian -Original Message- From: Edward Koch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:32 PM To: Johntherunner Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Famous people in TF Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. I remember hearing something about it when when of his movies came out during my college days. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Johntherunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Johntherunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: t-and-f: Famous people in TF Didn't Bruce Dern run in High School (880 I think) and Jack Lemmon as well? I know Dern competed in Ultramarathons in the early 70's. John the crazy alaskan runner
RE: t-and-f: European Cross Country Champs
In my interest in the results and the chip-timing I overlooked that these Euro Champs were held in Thun. In addition to having rabid XC fans within short driving distance of Switzerland, Thun has another advantage. They have hosted many international-level cyclocross and mountain bike races over the years. Both of these sports are conducted on the same surface as XC running and are endurance races that use multi-loop courses. (ergo the benefit of the chip-timing and en route display). Cyclocross laps are usually about a kilo or slightly longer, and the races are 1 hour for senior men. MTB race sites that are real estate-challenged will be 3-5k per lap, and 1:30-2:30 depending on the event. There is a LOT of money involved in cycle racing in Europe and therefore they would have a leg-up in the presentation of an exciting XC meet like the Euro Champs. /Brian McEwen -Original Message- From: Kevin Hadsell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: European Cross Country Champs I had the opportunity to be there for the meet and it was quite amazing. Yes, the anklet was the chip timing system. The reason that it was on the ankle is because they had no idea if the course was going to be muddy and if it was, they were afraid of the shoes coming off and this eliminated that fear. It was also much easier to get them on and off instead of having to lace and unlace your shoes. Yes, they did give the full results after each lap of the race. Not only were they announced (in German and English) but the entire race was being televised live on Eurosport which was fed through a giant 30' jumbotron erected even with the finish line so you could stand in one spot and see the entire race either live or on the big screen. Thun is a very small town and yet there were thousands of people there to view the race. Many brought giant cow bells the size of basketballs. The junior races were very tough. Turkish girl (by way of Ethiopia) that won is the real deal. Portugese women's team was very big suprise winner over Russia and France which seemed to be tough in the early stages. It was an incredible day of cross country. I feel lucky enough to have been there to witness it all. Kevin Hadsell Head Coach University of Toledo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe the Euro XC Champs held this past weekend in Thun, Switzerland have been mentioned yet. Ukrainian Sergey Lebed won, adding to his '98 crown and moving up one place from last year. He stopped Paulo Guerra's streak at 2 (Guerra has won it 4 times). Photos on the race website (http://www.eaa-athletics.ch/) show competitors wearing ankle bracelets which are apparently some kind of timing chip. The great thing is that because the course was 1500m, they have complete results, including team scores after every lap, on the site. I don't know if they were able to announce these team scores each lap at the race, but it would definitely make cross viewing more enjoyable. I think we need to have more courses like this in the U.S. The Vancouver, Wa course for nationals is a good 2000m loop, but team scoring at this race is almost an afterthought. We need this kind of technology at the NCAA's. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF)
At 9:12 AM -0500 17.12.2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. --- The story is accurate. The coach was Ken Doherty, who had a fairly good string of middle distance runners at the time. But as is always the case with any coach having a relay team, Doherty needed one more guy for a shot at doing well in the 4-Mile relay at Penn. Dern was the most likely suspect, and Doherty had convinced him to go out at about 2:10-2:12 and come back with whatever was left, hoping for a 4:20-4:25. Dern, who was a 1:54-type half-miler then, went out in 2:00 and died big time, running mid-4:30s or so, and taking Penn out of the race. Doherty wasn't happy. Dave Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
It must also be noted that USATF uses the marks through September 1. Only Track and Field News stops after NCAA meet. Moroever, in answer to Bob's question about the official record, while it is true that the NCAA only worries about meet records, the Rono mark is still the record. Whether you want to use FAST, USATF or TFN, they are still the records. Scott
Re: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
You can bet if I ever happen to be announcing a meet and be fortunate enough to see a collegian run faster than's Rono's mark, it WILL be announced as a collegiate record! The fans need to be made aware of what they have seen. I don't get wrapped up in the word official. Last year at Mt. SAC, there were two American records set in the Men's and Women's one mile walks and they were most certainly annoucned as ARs, even though the distance is not officially recognized. Scott
RE: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track?
malmo is class of '73, and went to HS in Maryland. Julia Roberts (~Moats) is about 30, making her Class of '89 (roughly). Eric Roberts could be no more than 2 years older or younger than malmo. Making Julia 14 to 18 years younger than her brother Eric, give or take 6 months. If Eric really was in some race during Malmo's 3 years of HS, Julia would have been real little. /Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:30 PM To: malmo Cc: 'Richard McCann'; 'TFMail List' Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? You ran against Eric Roberts? Did his sister Julia show up to cheer him on? Also, in high school (in Mississippi I believe) he wasn't known as Eric Roberts. Roberts is the family stage name. Eric and Julia Roberts' real last name is Moats. Kurt Bray malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Richard McCann' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'TFMail List' Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: oregon.edu Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? 12/13/01 05:43 PM Please respond to malmo ESPN football analyst Bryan Burwell was a hurdler on my HS track team. I've been told in high school I once ran against Eric Roberts (the Bedbug took my thumb!). malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:53 PM To: TFMail List Subject: Re: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? At 10:00 PM 12/12/2001 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Some I know of along with their event: Ahmad Rashad (Bobby Moore) LJ-Oregon Wilt Chamberlin - HJ - Kansas Michael Jordan - TJ - North Carolina Terry Bradshaw - JT - high on the high school all time list Jim Ryun - Mile Kansas Bob Hayes - 100m Michael Carter - SP SMU Michael Landon - JT USC Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs)
Another angle to ChampionChip-type timing system used in XC - which I am sure has been discussed here already - one could use this system to make the race more team-oriented and spectator-friendly. In addition to announcing top runners and their splits, one could have immediate access to team standings as soon as the fifth man hits the checkpoint. This could be done almost instantaneously (they got those fancy things called computers which can add five numbers pretty darn fast!) regardless of whether the scoring is by places or by time. Imagine being able to follow the oh-so-close Stanford/Colorado battle for team title at this year's NCAAs while it developed. This would make XC a whole different type of sport, from a spectator's point of view, and put more emphasis on the team aspect of the competition. Oleg. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mcewen, Brian T Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs) This has been discussed in my state (Michigan) where ChampionChip Timing was founded (by a guy I know who grew up about 35 minutes from me). I think the problem is that the sensor set-up that senses the chip and takes the split (and therefore the runner's positions en route) is very expensive. I think the setup costs like $30,000 at each checkpoint. The ChampionChip system is used at the Michigan HS State XC Finals, which are now held at Michigan International Speedway, and hosts all FOUR Divisions, both Boys and Girls. 8 races in one day. There is a sensor at the 1 mile, 2 and 3, and FINISH of course. We don't have any electronic scoreboard running during the races though. They are able to have this many sensors because of the economy of scale of all the races being run on one day, on the same course. I think they also do this as somewhat of a demo for their road racing customers. The MIS also has deep pockets to pay for something like chip timing, thanks to parking and entrance fees for the many thousands of parents, teammates and friends who watch the races. Rather than have a 5 x 2k multi-loop setup for NCAA's that (in my opinion) turns it into a track race on grass, I don't see why they couldn't have sensors set up at 4k/6k/8k or 3k/6k/9k or something, on a normal course. If the MHSAA can afford it, then the NCAA should be able to. Or should want to. I guess a wrinkle that I didn't consider is that on a big-loop course each split would need it's own scoreboard for the display, and it would need electricity. A multi-loop (5x2k for men, 3x2k for women) course would only need one sensor and one display. There must be a challenge that is not easily seen, because the chip-timing providers must be busting to provide it as, like you said, it would be a real breakthrough in spectating for XC. Maybe the display board is even more expensive than the mid-race sensors. /Brian McEwen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: European Cross Country Champs I don't believe the Euro XC Champs held this past weekend in Thun, Switzerland have been mentioned yet. Ukrainian Sergey Lebed won, adding to his '98 crown and moving up one place from last year. He stopped Paulo Guerra's streak at 2 (Guerra has won it 4 times). Photos on the race website (http://www.eaa-athletics.ch/) show competitors wearing ankle bracelets which are apparently some kind of timing chip. The great thing is that because the course was 1500m, they have complete results, including team scores after every lap, on the site. I don't know if they were able to announce these team scores each lap at the race, but it would definitely make cross viewing more enjoyable. I think we need to have more courses like this in the U.S. The Vancouver, Wa course for nationals is a good 2000m loop, but team scoring at this race is almost an afterthought. We need this kind of technology at the NCAA's. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: More on Mathis, original request
In a message dated Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:14:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Y ask: Here's what my paper (a major metropolitan daily north of Tijuana and south of Camp Pendleton) said a year and a half ago about Mathis-the-jumper during a report on masters record holder Phil Fehlen: . Quite an accomplishment for the Stanford University graduate (philosophy major), whose personal record is 7-0 1/2 and who competed in the 1956 and 1960 U.S. Olympic Trials. whoop-whoop-whoop! The BS meter just went off. Fehlen indeed competed in the OT of '56 and '60, but his PR (according to TFN lists) was just 6-10 (in '61 and '62). In the era in which he competed there had only been a handaful of U.S. 7-footers ever. gh
Re: t-and-f: jagger at the olympics other famous people
In a message dated Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:16:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 12/14/01 12:44:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jagger was at the 84 opening ceremonies in LA. He often logs mileage in preparations for his gyrations during a tour Last time I went to a Stones concert (4-5 years ago) there was a stage of about 150m in length across one end of the stadium, and I was blown away to see the Mickster literally running from one end of the stage nonstop during the show, while singing. At the end I figured he had put in about 5K! It was very impressive. gh
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
In a message dated Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:20:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rather than have a 5 x 2k multi-loop setup for NCAA's that (in my opinion) turns it into a track race on grass, I don't see why they couldn't have sensors set up at 4k/6k/8k or 3k/6k/9k or something, on a normal course. If the MHSAA can afford it, then the NCAA should be able to. Or should want to. Why do you feel a short loop turns a cross race into a track race on grass? There's still hills, mud, turns, etc. The only difference is a spectator can see virtually the entire race. It makes it more of a fan-friendly event, which surely athletes will appreciate and approve of. sideshow
t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You can bet if I ever happen to be announcing a meet and be fortunate enough to see a collegian run faster than's Rono's mark, it WILL be announced as a collegiate record! The fans need to be made aware of what they have seen. I don't get wrapped up in the word official. Last year at Mt. SAC, there were two American records set in the Men's and Women's one mile walks and they were most certainly annoucned as ARs, even though the distance is not officially recognized. Scott I have no quarrel with that, Scott. I'd do the same thing for a Collegiate record if I were announcing a domestic meet when one was set. (In fact, I suspect I've been there and done that.) But that has nothing to do with my point. Geoff did not ask about the record. He asked about the official record--his word, not mine--and a correct answer to his question must include the fact that there is no such thing as an official collegiate record. Bob H
Re: t-and-f: Famous people in TF
In a message dated Sun, 16 Dec 2001 8:30:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Garth Brooks was mentioned previously. In today's Parade Magazine in your Sunday newspaper, there is an article on Garth Brooks that says he went to Oklahoma State in 1980 as a freshman on a track scholarship. No word on his event. Oklahoma State pressbook says he lettered 1981-84. I vaguely remember his being called a triple jumper once, but couldnt' swear to it. gh
Re: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF)
Dern was the National 50 mile champ in the late 60's, early 70's. Your magazine, Running Times did an article on Dern in the 80's that running saved his life. I had the article cut out saved, but it has been misplaced. It told of his high school, collegiate post collegiate running career. Is there a way to track it down? Is it saved online anywhere? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. Incidentally, I recall reading in an interview that his film contracts stipulated that he had to have at least one scene in which he was running (and I think that's true). IMHO, his movie based on the Dipsea (I think it's titled Running Free) is one of the Top 10 running flicks ever, partly b/c Dern looks so believable as a runner. If you watch it and don't want to go out for a hard 10 mile trail run, you need to check your pulse. Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: Track Field News Final 2001 U.S. Women's Lists
Okay, the 2002 indoor season is already underway, but it's never too late to check out the 2001 Final U.S. women's 50-deep lists, available on the Track Field News website: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists/lists2001/usoutw.html Please e-mail any corrections/additions to me, BUT NOT AT THIS ADDRESS. Please send them to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enjoy. Dan Lilot Statistician Track Field News
Re: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF)
Hey Bob Cooper, Did you write the article that is being discussed in the attached e-mail?? Mike Fanelli your San Francisco Bay Area real estate resource Pacific Union Real Estate Group Ltd. (415) 447 - 6254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.SFabode.com www.MarinHouseHunting.com - Original Message - From: DANIEL DEYO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) Dern was the National 50 mile champ in the late 60's, early 70's. Your magazine, Running Times did an article on Dern in the 80's that running saved his life. I had the article cut out saved, but it has been misplaced. It told of his high school, collegiate post collegiate running career. Is there a way to track it down? Is it saved online anywhere? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. Incidentally, I recall reading in an interview that his film contracts stipulated that he had to have at least one scene in which he was running (and I think that's true). IMHO, his movie based on the Dipsea (I think it's titled Running Free) is one of the Top 10 running flicks ever, partly b/c Dern looks so believable as a runner. If you watch it and don't want to go out for a hard 10 mile trail run, you need to check your pulse. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Fwd: Re: t-and-f: Famous people in TF
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oklahoma State pressbook says he lettered 1981-84. I vaguely remember his being called a triple jumper once, but couldnt' swear to it. Garth Brooks was a javelin thrower at Oklahoma State. = Kelley Halliburton Trade Marketing Manager Human Kinetics Publishers Champaign, IL __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
I tried to couch it diplomatically, but it still caught attention. Here is why: Track racers, no matter what the distance, always face this: Sameness. No track ever had a hill on it. None of them ever had a deceptively long homestretch, or a false-flat at the 5M mark that you forgot about, or never knew of because you hadn't ever run the full course enough times. Even in the only track distance race WITH obstacles, the Steeple, you know EXACTLY how high they will be and where they are placed, how many per lap, the distance from the last WJ to the finish, etc. In any distance race you gauge your effort expended at that moment, and where/when/how long you are going to apply a MAX-effort, by a few things: How you feel RIGHT NOW; how you have felt over the whole race thus far; where you are in relation to where you ought to be (ahead? behind? right in it?); and where you are in relation to the watch (splits). There are lots of other things, but those are the big ones. As you circle the track in a 3k, Steeple, 5k or 10k, these things are VERY PREDICTABLE. The next lap will always be 400m, always be flat (excepting the Steeple), and you can tell exactly how far it is to the finish. You are also given your cumulative time every lap, sometimes you get more, split times, kilo splits, etc. If you circle the track in 66, 67, 67, 68, 67, 67 ... etc. and feel pretty good, based on experience, you can be pretty confident you will finish the final 2k @ 67-pace. They aren't going to build a hill, or a muddy hairpin, or a log jump on the track as you are winding it up coming into the last mile. In a big-loop XC race, you have NONE of these things. You can't see the entire course from where you are running at any moment. You don't know exactly how high or how long each hill is. You have splits (sometimes), but they are every K or mile at best and each is a split for a different K/mile. You judge how you're doing by your own judgment. The last mile will likely be very different than the opening mile. Hell, the last split you get is 1.1 to 1.2 miles from the finish! Stage big-time XC races on a 1500m loop and you eliminate all of this. That would be 6-7 loops for College men. You would like to have at least ONE big challenge in a XC race, right? Most courses worth their salt DO. You couldn't have that because that would mean SIX big hills. Too many, IMO. You couldn't have a long gradual hill, it would be 500m up, then 800m down, 200m flat. By the 4th circuit, on any course, each racer has learned the hill (that's what they call it in MTB racing). This results in very tactical racing. Also, a racer would have a split every lap that was the SAME LAP, over and over. In other words, hard-earned skills like self-knowledge, pace-judgment, XC-experience, and tactical ability (not to mention knowledge of the course!) would no longer hold as much advantage for the racer who earned them. Make a 1500m-2k loop as varied and/or challenging as you want to, and it will still be a 1500m race on grass, repeated 6 times. I can't say I ever raced a long circuit-style XC race with any laps shorter than 1 mile. But I did ran plenty of repetitive 5k courses had no surprises after the mile mark. BORING. We always preferred the park/forest-type courses to the golf course-type courses. I know that racers view these two types differently as I have raced cyclocross and Mtn. bikes over both extremes. The big-loop race is always more popular and welcomed by the racers as it rewards the big-gear-pushers and savvy racers instead of the wheel-suckers. I can't speak for the athletes, who in this case I presume are NCAA-level men, and whether they would appreciate and approve of a more...fan-friendly event. I would have no idea what they all think. I think (again, just my opinion, not the de facto standard) that a (6x~1500m) or (5x2k) multi-loop XC race would take a lot of the FUN out of it for ME. To watch it or run in it. Even if a digital scoreboard could tell me that Stanford had CU, 76 points to 86, at the 5 mile mark. /Brian McEwen P.S. In some XC-mad states you'd have to erect bleachers for the throngs of fans. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs) In a message dated Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:20:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rather than have a 5 x 2k multi-loop setup for NCAA's that (in my opinion) turns it into a track race on grass, I don't see why they couldn't have sensors set up at 4k/6k/8k or 3k/6k/9k or something, on a normal course. If the MHSAA can afford it, then the NCAA should be able to. Or should want to. Why do you feel a short loop turns a cross race into a track race on grass? There's still hills, mud, turns, etc. The only difference is a spectator
Re: t-and-f: Famous people in TF (Garth=Javelin)
Garth Brooks threw the javelin, at least in the set of pictures of him at the '84 Big-8 outdoor Champs. http://strengthtech.com/photos/garthp/garthp.htm I have read several accounts that he was strictly a jav thrower, so I'm not sure he tj'd. Garth Brooks was mentioned previously. In today's Parade Magazine in your Sunday newspaper, there is an article on Garth Brooks that says he went to Oklahoma State in 1980 as a freshman on a track scholarship. No word on his event. Oklahoma State pressbook says he lettered 1981-84. I vaguely remember his being called a triple jumper once, but couldnt' swear to it.
Re: t-and-f: american men's outdoor collegiate record - 3k?
And there is no NCAA Championship in football, either. Message text written by Geoff Thurner i'm adding a line to the record section (world/american/collegiate/hayward field/school) of the oregon track and field media guide and was wondering if there was an official men's outdoor collegiate 3,000 record The key word here, which Scott, Walter, and Malmo seem to have ignored or glossed over, is official. There are no official collegiate records. Bob H
Re: t-and-f: My miserable Bruce Dern Moment
Indeed, it was the cover of what was then my favorite magazine. I had started my LDL subscription immediately after I won a copy of the April '69 issue (Yoshiaki Unetani on the cover) at one of Brownie's road races. Obviously this was before I'd ever heard about TFN. At 12:30 PM -0800 17.12.2001, Mike Fanelli wrote: And, Tom, didn't that race make the cover of the late Browning Ross's Long Distance Log? Mike Fanelli your San Francisco Bay Area real estate resource Pacific Union Real Estate Group Ltd. (415) 447 - 6254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.SFabode.com www.MarinHouseHunting.com - Original Message - From: Tom Derderian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:58 AM Subject: t-and-f: My miserable Bruce Dern Moment It was Rockland California in 1970 while my roomate Bob Deines was winning the National 50 miler that I, after dropping out at 30 miles leaned against a car with Bruce Dern who had also dropped out, and grumbled. Tom, just getting over the shame of the DNF now, Derderian Greater Boston Track Club - Original Message - From: DANIEL DEYO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) Dern was the National 50 mile champ in the late 60's, early 70's. Your magazine, Running Times did an article on Dern in the 80's that running saved his life. I had the article cut out saved, but it has been misplaced. It told of his high school, collegiate post collegiate running career. Is there a way to track it down? Is it saved online anywhere? Dave Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs)
Regarding chip costs: My friend Danny White owns a race management business. We were at the Kiawah Island Marathon this past weekend and he used the champion chip system there for the first time. I don't know how much he paid for the equipment, but it was enough to put him into significant debt. But a race director only has to rent the service. Danny charges $750 + $1 per chip for a road race setup with two mats at the finish line - a primary mat + a backup. I imagine that his charges are typical for the business. So to figure the cost for a cross country race, multiply the number of splits needed by $350 and add $1 per runner. You may need special programming to do the team scores, but there are probably lots of folks that could do that. Ed Prytherch - Original Message - From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs) This has been discussed in my state (Michigan) where ChampionChip Timing was founded (by a guy I know who grew up about 35 minutes from me). I think the problem is that the sensor set-up that senses the chip and takes the split (and therefore the runner's positions en route) is very expensive. I think the setup costs like $30,000 at each checkpoint. The ChampionChip system is used at the Michigan HS State XC Finals, which are now held at Michigan International Speedway, and hosts all FOUR Divisions, both Boys and Girls. 8 races in one day. There is a sensor at the 1 mile, 2 and 3, and FINISH of course. We don't have any electronic scoreboard running during the races though. They are able to have this many sensors because of the economy of scale of all the races being run on one day, on the same course. I think they also do this as somewhat of a demo for their road racing customers. The MIS also has deep pockets to pay for something like chip timing, thanks to parking and entrance fees for the many thousands of parents, teammates and friends who watch the races.
Re: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European CrossCountry Champs)
As one who makes a few dollars scoring cross country meets with pull tags and push-button timers, I hate to tout a competitive technology, but the fact is that the Chip is terrific. At the NCAA DIII championships last month, they set up a mat on the course where the women would cross it twice and the men three times. The computer at the finish line was able to interrogate the one at the split point, determine when about 100 runners had passed (there's no point computing scores until enough teams have put five people across the split), and compute scores for an announcer to read. It was an odd split, something over a mile the first time anyone hit it, but who cares? Knowing that Oshkosh has the lead a little past a mile into the race is plenty good enough for the audience. Although a full mat system might cost $30,000, it should be noted that meet organizers who use this technology almost certainly hire a chip-system owner to do the results. The cost of an additional split is whatever the chip guy charges. As I understand it, it's about $500. From: Oleg Shpyrko [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Oleg Shpyrko [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:31:37 -0800 To: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs) Another angle to ChampionChip-type timing system used in XC - which I am sure has been discussed here already - one could use this system to make the race more team-oriented and spectator-friendly. In addition to announcing top runners and their splits, one could have immediate access to team standings as soon as the fifth man hits the checkpoint. This could be done almost instantaneously (they got those fancy things called computers which can add five numbers pretty darn fast!) regardless of whether the scoring is by places or by time. Imagine being able to follow the oh-so-close Stanford/Colorado battle for team title at this year's NCAAs while it developed. This would make XC a whole different type of sport, from a spectator's point of view, and put more emphasis on the team aspect of the competition. Oleg. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mcewen, Brian T Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Country Champs) This has been discussed in my state (Michigan) where ChampionChip Timing was founded (by a guy I know who grew up about 35 minutes from me). I think the problem is that the sensor set-up that senses the chip and takes the split (and therefore the runner's positions en route) is very expensive. I think the setup costs like $30,000 at each checkpoint. The ChampionChip system is used at the Michigan HS State XC Finals, which are now held at Michigan International Speedway, and hosts all FOUR Divisions, both Boys and Girls. 8 races in one day. There is a sensor at the 1 mile, 2 and 3, and FINISH of course. We don't have any electronic scoreboard running during the races though. They are able to have this many sensors because of the economy of scale of all the races being run on one day, on the same course. I think they also do this as somewhat of a demo for their road racing customers. The MIS also has deep pockets to pay for something like chip timing, thanks to parking and entrance fees for the many thousands of parents, teammates and friends who watch the races. Rather than have a 5 x 2k multi-loop setup for NCAA's that (in my opinion) turns it into a track race on grass, I don't see why they couldn't have sensors set up at 4k/6k/8k or 3k/6k/9k or something, on a normal course. If the MHSAA can afford it, then the NCAA should be able to. Or should want to. I guess a wrinkle that I didn't consider is that on a big-loop course each split would need it's own scoreboard for the display, and it would need electricity. A multi-loop (5x2k for men, 3x2k for women) course would only need one sensor and one display. There must be a challenge that is not easily seen, because the chip-timing providers must be busting to provide it as, like you said, it would be a real breakthrough in spectating for XC. Maybe the display board is even more expensive than the mid-race sensors. /Brian McEwen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: European Cross Country Champs I don't believe the Euro XC Champs held this past weekend in Thun, Switzerland have been mentioned yet. Ukrainian Sergey Lebed won, adding to his '98 crown and moving up one place from last year. He stopped Paulo Guerra's streak at 2 (Guerra has won it 4 times). Photos on the race website (http://www.eaa-athletics.ch/) show competitors wearing ankle bracelets which are apparently
t-and-f: re: sponsorship $$
Dan Aside from a few knowledgeable runners and fans . . . Take their show overseas and people (us, at least) are talking about it, The only reason we know about this is the Johnsons spend way too much time on the internet. They also have all kinds of angles they can play to about helping less privileged people. They can't get that here? Come on, puhleaze!! I mentioned Detroit as an example. Surely there are some poor kids there who would benefit immensely from that type of program. The news media would eat it up too - Stars give people money - always a news item. My only guess is that Puma's presence supporting African Athletes was the reason for the location. MJR
Re: t-and-f: My miserable Bruce Dern Moment
In a message dated 12/17/01 3:16:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was Rockland California in 1970 while my roomate Bob Deines was winning the National 50 miler that I, after dropping out at 30 miles leaned against a car with Bruce Dern who had also dropped out, and grumbled. I think that race was also mentioned in the article. Dern says his wife pulled up alongside in a car and told him to drop out. He replied that although he was slowing badly, he was still making progress, to which she replied that he had been running in place for the past 10 minutes. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
In a message dated 12/17/01 3:58:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hell, the last split you get is 1.1 to 1.2 miles from the finish! Not if the organizers are smart, and give metric splits for metric distance races. Jim Gerweck Running Times
RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
Brian- I understand your points, but they are based on the experience for the competitors, when what we should be most concerned about is the experience for the spectators. We have no problems concerning the participatory side of the sport in this country, but when it comes to presentation and marketability, we're WAY behind. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: jagger at the olympics other famous people
Maybe he could have challenged Keino and Ryun! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: jagger at the olympics other famous people In a message dated Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:16:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 12/14/01 12:44:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jagger was at the 84 opening ceremonies in LA. He often logs mileage in preparations for his gyrations during a tour Last time I went to a Stones concert (4-5 years ago) there was a stage of about 150m in length across one end of the stadium, and I was blown away to see the Mickster literally running from one end of the stage nonstop during the show, while singing. At the end I figured he had put in about 5K! It was very impressive. gh
Re: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/01 3:58:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hell, the last split you get is 1.1 to 1.2 miles from the finish! Not if the organizers are smart, and give metric splits for metric distance races. Not too many are smart. Most are still trying to divide integer metric distances by 1.609344! -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx™ 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Fw: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track?
Whoops, had an hypoglycemic moment: meant to say, you're right, she'd have to have been 7 years old when he ran as a senior :} - Original Message - From: SandraK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:52 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? Julia Roberts was born in 1967, making her 34 now (class of '85). Eric was born in 1956 (class of 1974), so Julia is 7 years younger. So could have been there as an 11-year-old. - -Original Message- Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:47:38 -0500 From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people who have run track? malmo is class of '73, and went to HS in Maryland. Julia Roberts (~Moats) is about 30, making her Class of '89 (roughly). Eric Roberts could be no more than 2 years older or younger than malmo. Making Julia 14 to 18 years younger than her brother Eric, give or take 6 months. If Eric really was in some race during Malmo's 3 years of HS, Julia would have been real little. /Brian - -Original Message-
