t-and-f: Flo-Jo and the 10.49
FLO-JO AND THE LEGEND OF THE 10.49 The story so far: At the US final Olympic tryouts at Indianapolis in 1988 Florence Griffith Joiner lowered the world record for 100m from 10.76 to 10.49. Others in that and the next quarterfinal also turned in superfast times. The wind reading in both races was officially zero, compared with +5.0 in quarterfinal 3. Peter Huertzeler of the Omega crew was quoted by Track and Field News as saying he had thoroughly checked the machinery and found it was working correctly, but admitted he had never seen two consecutive zero readings before. Flo-Jo herself said she did not believe her 10.49. Bert Nelson in TFN agreed, and so have an increasing number of track statisticians in the ensuing years. Australian physicist Nick Linthorne has produced strong statistical arguments to support all the doubts but the IAAF still recognises the time. NOW READ ON. At the recent New Zealand schools championships there were not two successive zero readings, but five. Out of the 25 100m readings, in fact, over half (14) were zero. True, both days were unusually calm. But not calm enough, because out of 87 readings in all track races there were no others within 0.5 m/s of zero, in either direction. That is, they were always over +0.5, under -0.5, or zero. Twelve months earlier and 1000 km away, using a similar integrated setup and same brands of software, there were also five successive zeros on a day when, as at Indianapolis, winds were gusting over 5 m/s. A possible explanation of all these aberrations is that the anemometers were automatically resetting to zero before the real reading had been registered. Alternatively (or additionally) program errors may be affecting the resetting process. Such errors are the reason why virtually all digital timers are inaccurate in varying degrees, even timing an interval of one second. That would also help explain the following succession of readings at the earlier NZ meet: 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.8, 1.8, 1.8. Statistics of 13,000 wind readings over a period of 50 years suggest that even at NZ's least windy tracks the odds of having five genuine zeros would be over 800 million to 1 against. So any meet referee encountering more than an occasional zero would be wise to disconnect the anemometer and have it operated by an intelligent human. In a recent BBC documentary, researchers into artificial intelligence cheerfully admitted that programs can be so complex that no human being can properly understand them or predict how they will behave. (Some would say the same applies to a great deal of reach-me-down software!) And computers, of course, are no more infallible than the people who instruct them. Since it is now obvious that automatic equipment is prone to phony zeros, and that whether or not it is operating as intended is no guarantee of accuracy, the IAAF no longer has any reason not to remove Flo-Jo's 10.49 from the record book. More importantly, the designers of such equipment no longer have any reason to be satisfied with it, and would be well advised to institute reviews just in case somebody's algorithms have succumbed to his biorhythms. - that horse's ass, P.N. from New Zealand - M M Rohl
t-and-f: You're kidding me right?
List, So it's not that busy and I've decided to put a little more concentrated thought into a few athlete's training schedules for the Spring. To help facilitate the planning I needed to know the answer to a seemingly simple question, specifically when is the qualifying period for the 2002 USATF outdoor championships scheduled for late June at Stanford? Now I'm not that smart and haven't had the best luck getting people to run PR's in May to make the standard and then come back 4-6 weeks later and run better at the National championships. The thing is I have a kid who qualified for Eugene last year at the Cardinal qualifier 5/13/01. So I thought that if an athlete had a qualifying standard from last year that carried over to this year, I could bypass the issue altogether and not have the athlete really ready in May, instead I would plan to have them really ready in June and the problem would be solved. So off I went looking for this info. I sent out a note to this list a few weeks back and got no firm data. I got a nice note from Dan Wilson, but not the data I needed. I then went to the USATF website and got data on how much money USATF is spending to send team abroad, but not data such as qualifying standards and qualifying periods for the national championships. I then called a friend who happens to be one of two coaches in charge of mens' middle distance development for USATF and seeing as the athlete I'm doing this for is a male 1500 runner, I figured men's middle distance development is where I should head to find the answer. He didn't know. He guessed 13 months, but that was an educated guess. He didn't have any factual data and in fact stated that the lack of this information was frustrating to him as well. Now if USATF development doesn't know the answer, who does? So the question begs, how the hell can I plan this kids season properly without this information? Yeah I can wing it, but this is probably the reason we can't get more than a 14 guys under 3:40. Yes I know it'll be available after indoors, but that's 3 months from now, what do I do in the meantime? Plan on having this kid ready to roll in May or do I take a chance and hope his time from 5/13/01 counts. What if it is 13 months back, well this kids time is from 13 months and 1 week back. I could plan on having him ready to roll the end of June and then hope if he doesn't have a qualifier that he can manage one at the early May meets at Stanford. I know, let's see if his time from Eugene counts. Nope, that data isn't out yet either. I've got an idea, let's tell the kids in 2004 about 3 months before the Trials how far back we'll take marks and what those marks will be. That'll really add to the excitement. I'd very much appreciate any help anyone can offer concerning this matter. Thanks and happy holidays to everyone (I'm not a total grouch). Joe
t-and-f: RE: XC circuits
I think that a type of compromise is possible. I have found that in running a circuit twice, I only vaguely recognize what's coming the second time around, even if I ran the course in the warm up (Dan, remember the Empire Open course in Santa Rosa?) However, when I get to 3 loops or more, then I definitely know the course quite well, and gauge my effort on the latter loops. (The 1981 Canadian champs at Jericho Park had this format). The added problem with having more than 2 loops is that the length of any hill really has to be reduced. For example, Stanford could not have it's long hills in a multi-loop course. I think the solution can take a couple of dimensions. First encourage a double-loop course, but to eliminate the even split issue, have a start and finish spur so that the loop is an odd distance. Second, if you want more than 2 loops, have added loops on a different loop. The Rocklin XC course is somewhat like this. You can have a course that looks like four loops to spectators that is really a two-loop course to competitors. And third, using a tag timing system to show team intermediate scores would be quite useful. The NCAA could even buy one with some spending change from the Final Four revenues and send it from meet to meet and perhaps share it with the Footlocker and USATF champ folks. Richard McCann At 04:52 PM 12/18/2001 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:35:30 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: ChampionChip Timing systems (was European Cross Coun try Champs) Brian- I understand your points, but they are based on the experience for the competitors, when what we should be most concerned about is the experience for the spectators. We have no problems concerning the participatory side of the sport in this country, but when it comes to presentation and marketability, we're WAY behind. sideshow Richard McCann Coach, Golden Valley Harriers http://www.goldenvalleyharriers.org PA USATF Club No. 38-0135 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (530) 756-0626
Re: t-and-f: US Nationals outdoor qualifying period
For the past few years, the qualifying period has been about 13 months, and includes the prior years' major collegiate championships. According to the handouts from the standards subcommittee at the recent convention the qualifying period is Friday, May 4, 2001 to Sunday, June 16, 2002. Any indoor marks submitted must have been achieved after December1 1, 2001. Steve Vaitones At 11:17 AM 12/19/01 -0800, you wrote: List, So it's not that busy and I've decided to put a little more concentrated thought into a few athlete's training schedules for the Spring. To help facilitate the planning I needed to know the answer to a seemingly simple question, specifically when is the qualifying period for the 2002 USATF outdoor championships scheduled for late June at Stanford? Now I'm not that smart and haven't had the best luck getting people to run PR's in May to make the standard and then come back 4-6 weeks later and run better at the National championships. The thing is I have a kid who qualified for Eugene last year at the Cardinal qualifier 5/13/01. So I thought that if an athlete had a qualifying standard from last year that carried over to this year, I could bypass the issue altogether and not have the athlete really ready in May, instead I would plan to have them really ready in June and the problem would be solved. So off I went looking for this info. I sent out a note to this list a few weeks back and got no firm data. I got a nice note from Dan Wilson, but not the data I needed. I then went to the USATF website and got data on how much money USATF is spending to send team abroad, but not data such as qualifying standards and qualifying periods for the national championships. I then called a friend who happens to be one of two coaches in charge of mens' middle distance development for USATF and seeing as the athlete I'm doing this for is a male 1500 runner, I figured men's middle distance development is where I should head to find the answer. He didn't know. He guessed 13 months, but that was an educated guess. He didn't have any factual data and in fact stated that the lack of this information was frustrating to him as well. Now if USATF development doesn't know the answer, who does? So the question begs, how the hell can I plan this kids season properly without this information? Yeah I can wing it, but this is probably the reason we can't get more than a 14 guys under 3:40. Yes I know it'll be available after indoors, but that's 3 months from now, what do I do in the meantime? Plan on having this kid ready to roll in May or do I take a chance and hope his time from 5/13/01 counts. What if it is 13 months back, well this kids time is from 13 months and 1 week back. I could plan on having him ready to roll the end of June and then hope if he doesn't have a qualifier that he can manage one at the early May meets at Stanford. I know, let's see if his time from Eugene counts. Nope, that data isn't out yet either. I've got an idea, let's tell the kids in 2004 about 3 months before the Trials how far back we'll take marks and what those marks will be. That'll really add to the excitement. I'd very much appreciate any help anyone can offer concerning this matter. Thanks and happy holidays to everyone (I'm not a total grouch). Joe Steve Vaitones Managing Director USA Track Field - New England Association P.O.Box 1905 Brookline MA 02446-0016 Phone: 617 566 7600 Fax: 617 734 6322 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.usatfne.org
t-and-f: Drummond arraigned on drug charge
Haven't seen this reported in the newspaper: Jonathan Drummond has been officially charged by the Los Angeles County District Attorney with violating section 11360(a) of the Health and Safety Code - sales or transportation of marijuana, the allged offense date being October 23, 2001. He was arraigned in Division 30 at the downtown Criminal Courts Building on December 12th. He continued his case for arraignment and plea until January 22, 2002. Drummond remains free on $20,000 bond at this time. SGMW __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: RE: XC circuits
In a message dated 12/19/01 3:22:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First encourage a double-loop course, but to eliminate the even split issue, have a start and finish spur so that the loop is an odd distance. You coudl even have multiple loops that came by the start/finish at several points in the race (the old Saucon Valley course at Lehigh was like that, as I recall), or use a Figure 8 layout w/ the S/F at the juncture of the two loops, which would each be run twice (you could even reverse direction the second time if you wanted to give the runners more variety). Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Famous people/(Bruce Dern)
And Marty Liquori was the tv announcer for the race if I recall correctly. I thought Dern's running sequences were quite good but the plot (especially the ending) was not very believable. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Mike Fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Fw: t-and-f: Famous people/(Bruce Dern) The movie being referenced is called On the Edge. It is based upon the Dipsea Race, a point-to-point 7.6 mile extremely vertical trail race that, since 1905 has run from downtown Mill Valley to the Pacific Ocean at Stinson Beach...via Mt. Tamalpais. Garry Bjorklund is in the movie and one of the directors is Roy Kissin. Mike Fanelli your San Francisco Bay Area real estate resource Pacific Union Real Estate Group Ltd. (415) 447 - 6254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.SFabode.com www.MarinHouseHunting.com - Original Message - From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:23 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Famous people in TF (Bruce Dern) Bruce Dern was a serious runner in HS, don't know what he accomplished (if anything) at Penn. He used to run a mile time trial every year on his birthday, attempting to beat his HS PR. I read that about 15 years ago. He also starred in a movie about an aging runner competing to win the Dipsea Race, a NorCal trail race from the mountains to the ocean. I think this was (is?) a real race (someone will know) held in the Bay Area with a long history. I think he ran a good 880 in HS and something like a 4:48 for a mile. That was his target to beat in the birthday time trial. This was all in a feature in Runner magazine a long time ago. More than you wanted to know, Brian -Original Message- From: Edward Koch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:32 PM To: Johntherunner Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Famous people in TF Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. I remember hearing something about it when when of his movies came out during my college days. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Johntherunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Johntherunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: t-and-f: Famous people in TF Didn't Bruce Dern run in High School (880 I think) and Jack Lemmon as well? I know Dern competed in Ultramarathons in the early 70's. John the crazy alaskan runner
Re: t-and-f: Track Movies (was Bruce Dern)
We had another thread about track/running movies some time back and I went to my latest edition of Leonard Maltin's Movie Guide to check the star ratings of the movie's mentioned. Here is what I came up with: 4 stars: Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner Olympia ( re1936 Olympics) 3.5 Stars: Chariots of Fire Gallipoli Personal Best Million Dollar Legs (W.C.Fields, not Betty Grable) 3 Stars: Blackbeard's Ghost Bob Mathias Story Walk, Don't Run (Cary Grant) Without Limits World's Greatest Athlete Yank at Oxford 2.5 Stars: Billie (Patty Duke as HS runner) Jim Thorpe - All American Running Brave (re Billy Mills) 2 Stars: Goldengirl On the Edge (Bruce Dern) Prefontaine Revenge of the Nerds (the Javelin Scene) Visions of Eight (re 1972 Olympics) 1.5 Stars: The Games (screenplay by Eric Segal) Meatballs (the race scene) Running (Michael Douglas) Maltin does not give stars to television movies. Instead, he rates them as Above Average, Average, or Below Average. He rates The Jesse Owens Story as Above Average. If anyone has other films, I'll be glad to look their ratings up. I found it interesting that a critic with no track-orientation (to my knowledge) came within a half star of how I would rate most of the above that I have seen. I would, however, lower Personal Best a star, and raise Visions of Eight a star. I would put Chariots of Fire at the top of the list. As for Best Comedy, I'd choose between Million Dollar Legs, Walk, Don't Run, and Blackbeard's Ghost. the latter is a typical Disney comedy but I have a soft spot in my heart for any film in which the track coach wins the girl over a football coach. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. Incidentally, I recall reading in an interview that his film contracts stipulated that he had to have at least one scene in which he was running (and I think that's true). IMHO, his movie based on the Dipsea (I think it's titled Running Free) is one of the Top 10 running flicks ever, partly b/c Dern looks so believable as a runner. If you watch it and don't want to go out for a hard 10 mile trail run, you need to check your pulse. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Track Movies (was Bruce Dern)
I think one can't and shouldn't make movies about running. The drama of training and racing is it's own theater. One can make movies about plot, character, and action in a running setting but if one tries to make a movie to show the viewer how it feels to race, and how it feels to watch a race it will always fail when compared to the real thing. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:08 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Track Movies (was Bruce Dern) We had another thread about track/running movies some time back and I went to my latest edition of Leonard Maltin's Movie Guide to check the star ratings of the movie's mentioned. Here is what I came up with: 4 stars: Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner Olympia ( re1936 Olympics) 3.5 Stars: Chariots of Fire Gallipoli Personal Best Million Dollar Legs (W.C.Fields, not Betty Grable) 3 Stars: Blackbeard's Ghost Bob Mathias Story Walk, Don't Run (Cary Grant) Without Limits World's Greatest Athlete Yank at Oxford 2.5 Stars: Billie (Patty Duke as HS runner) Jim Thorpe - All American Running Brave (re Billy Mills) 2 Stars: Goldengirl On the Edge (Bruce Dern) Prefontaine Revenge of the Nerds (the Javelin Scene) Visions of Eight (re 1972 Olympics) 1.5 Stars: The Games (screenplay by Eric Segal) Meatballs (the race scene) Running (Michael Douglas) Maltin does not give stars to television movies. Instead, he rates them as Above Average, Average, or Below Average. He rates The Jesse Owens Story as Above Average. If anyone has other films, I'll be glad to look their ratings up. I found it interesting that a critic with no track-orientation (to my knowledge) came within a half star of how I would rate most of the above that I have seen. I would, however, lower Personal Best a star, and raise Visions of Eight a star. I would put Chariots of Fire at the top of the list. As for Best Comedy, I'd choose between Million Dollar Legs, Walk, Don't Run, and Blackbeard's Ghost. the latter is a typical Disney comedy but I have a soft spot in my heart for any film in which the track coach wins the girl over a football coach. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: t-and-f: Bruce Dern (was Famous people in TF) In a message dated 12/16/01 8:35:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Dern went to college at Penn and may have competed on the track team but it was before my time. He did in fact compete and was a good half miler, but quit the team his jr. year in a dispute w/ the coach (Ken Doherty? - I think the time frame is pre-Tupp, but it's before my time as well) over having to trim his sideburns. Incidentally, I recall reading in an interview that his film contracts stipulated that he had to have at least one scene in which he was running (and I think that's true). IMHO, his movie based on the Dipsea (I think it's titled Running Free) is one of the Top 10 running flicks ever, partly b/c Dern looks so believable as a runner. If you watch it and don't want to go out for a hard 10 mile trail run, you need to check your pulse. Jim Gerweck Running Times
