Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Fred Finke wrote: Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb going pro first of all, going pro is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
The major difference between Webb, Woods, and Bryant is that Woods was guaranteed millions in sponsorships the day he quit college whether he panned out or not. Same for Kobe, plus several million in signing bonuses from the Lakers. I'll take a guess and say that Webb's sponsorship is well below $1 million per year. If Tiger Kobe didn't pan out, they had enough to live on for life if they were halfway intelligent with the money. If Webb doesn't show significant improvement in the next year or two, it's over. He can't live off of his high school career forever and no sponsor is going to throw the same amount of money his way for it. --- Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Webb ain't Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant was one of 400 b-ball players earning 3 million a year. Webb won't be buying his momma a house with his 5 million dollar signing bonus. College isn't for everyone. Who on this list would really trade away the Harvard of the West for the Salisbury State of the West? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Fred Finke Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Webb going pro Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb going pro first of all, going pro is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Not running for the NCAA didn't hurt Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El-Gueruej, Haile Gebrelessie or Khalid Kahnnouchi. From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 05:34:30 -0400 Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Martin D. - Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any official capacity with GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? My previous post: But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
RE: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Hi. Fred Finke Here. Actually I was not talking about money as everyone appears to be thinking. I was strictly referring to the fact that, although I would never recommend it to any HS athlete in any sport, we do not know the specifics of the entire move. Maybe, just maybe, he is doing what he and his parents think is best. Maybe he is really doing the best thing: Striking while the iron is hot. Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be surprised and disappointed) he gets: a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative (that's 50K a year for life invested)) b. -Guaranteed 4 year school scholarship of his choice (NO College guarantees that, and I would bet ANYTHING that was part of the deal) c. -Coaching that includes the guy that got him 3:53 (and you can be sure that he will have access to other coaches as necessary) d. -One of the best (if not THE best) manager in the game as his agent (that can use the leverage of his other athletes to get Webb into races). e. -The ability to pick and schedule ALL of his races (which I doubt would just include 1500/mile races) around the worlds schedule instead of just the collegiate schedule. f. -Be surrounded by the support group that has worked so far (His HS Coach, parents, girlfriend(?), etc) g. -Be in a training group of HIS choice. h. -Still race all the NCAA (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) races he wants (on his schedule, as an open athlete) except for the NCAA championships. (What meet would not want him in their race as a draw?) What could ANY college program do to top that set-up? And last but not least, I find it interesting (at least it appears to me) that the common perception is that the progression of coaching excellence is as follows:, club youth coaches, HS coaches, college coaches, elite coaches, each having better coaches than the one before it. I still remember Radzko (His HS coach, sp?) getting hammered during Webb's' junior year when he had Webb pass on a race or two (I think it was national scholastic) and then having Webb in some relays instead of open events (Penn relays?). As we all know, there are rotten apples at ALL levels and there is excellence at ALL levels. We may not want to sell Radzko short. In the final analysis, it comes down (IMHO) to what the athlete feels is best for his success and his future. Obviously, he would have gotten good coaching and racing experiences at Michigan, but who is to say that he did not get an even BETTER situation? Fred PS-On the other hand, how about the experts that were screaming Ritzenheim that was overraced in HS. Seems to me he is doing pretty well. (BTW, how many of you experts knew that Ritz negative split almost EVERY 2K lap of the 12K at the world XC Championships?) *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:51 AM To: Fred Finke Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Fred Finke wrote: Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Because you were implying that GMU would not be able to do as good a job above the shoulders. Maybe that is true. Is there any empirical evidence in whatever field he was in at UM and whatever he is in at GMU? Somebody must have the answer to that question given how many conclusions are being drawn about his deal(s) from various and sundry armchairs. Martin D Mike Prizy wrote: Martin D. - Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any official capacity with GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? My previous post: But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Yep!!! that's a fair projection in the running market. It's just a totally different market in comparison to b-ball or other huge revenue sports. In a message dated 6/21/2002 4:27:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If Webb doesn't show significant improvement in the next year or two, it's over. He can't live off of his high school career forever and no sponsor is going to throw the same amount of money his way for it.
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
I said - one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders - no where did I slam any educational institution! I was not implying anything about GMU. If he can get one more year of college running at GMU, fine. I think one more year of the college running experience will help him more with his long-term running development and would provide for a smoother transition to the next level. (((If I was going to slam a university, I would have slammed Michigan. I live in Illinois - home of two Big 10+1 schools.))) Martin J. Dixon wrote: Because you were implying that GMU would not be able to do as good a job above the shoulders. Maybe that is true. Is there any empirical evidence in whatever field he was in at UM and whatever he is in at GMU? Somebody must have the answer to that question given how many conclusions are being drawn about his deal(s) from various and sundry armchairs. Martin D Mike Prizy wrote: Martin D. - Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any official capacity with GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? My previous post: But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
t-and-f: Re: the walking situation is intolerable!
Although many us of fail to appreciate the finer points walking, it has a long and honored tradition in TF. Walking events were common at both British and American track meets throughout the 19th century. Walking was as controversial in those days as it is today. Charles Westhall, a fine athlete who ran 150 yards in 15.0 in 1851 and a year later became the first runner to break 4:30 for the mile on a track was also a champion walker covering 7 miles in 52min 43sec . Westhall wrote a little book Hints Upon Training in about 1860. Here's what he had to say about judging walking matches and his enthusiasm for the sport: It [walking] is the most useful and at the same time most abused branch of the athletic sports of Old England; not so much from the fault of the pedestrians as from the inability or want of courage of the judge or referee to stop the man - who in his eagerness for fame or determination to gain money anyhow, may trespass upon fair walking, and run. Walking is a succession of steps, not leaps, and with one foot always on the ground. The term fair toe and heel' was meant to infer that as the foot of the back leg left the ground, and before the toes had been lifted, that the heel of the foremost foot should be on the ground. Even this apparently simple rule is broken almost daily, in consequence of the pedestrian performing with a bent and loose knee, in which case the swing of his whole frame when going at any pace will invariably bring both feet off the ground at the same time; and although he is going heel and toe, He is not taking the required succession of steps, but is infringing the great and principal one, of one foot being continually on the ground. The same fault will be brought on by the pedestrian leaning forward with his body, and thereby leaning his weight on the front foot, which, when any great pace is intended, or the performer begins to be fatigued, first merges into a very short stride and then into a most undignified trot.. There may be a few professional pedestrians - happily, only a few - who care not how they may come in first in a match, and get the money; but they are now fast dying out, not from age, but from being stopped at their little game by an honest and resolute referee, and by the loud expressions of public opinion, which invariably has taken the part of the fair walker. There is no finer sight among the long catalogue of British sports, more exhilarating and amusing to the true sportsman, than to see a walking match carried out to the strict letter of the meaning, each moving with the grandest action of which the human frame is capable, at a pace which the feeble frame and mind is totally unable to comprehend, and must be witnessed to be believed. Ed Sears --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
I worry about Webb going pro now not over any questions of money nor even educational opportunity - he's an adult now and can judge those things for himself. My concern is that he not harm his development by rushing to jump to a higher level of the sport when he has not yet mastered his current level. Things worked out great for Tiger, but he was already beating the crap out of all the college boys. If Tiger had been getting cuffed around at the college level the way Webb has, I would have thought his going pro after one year would have been a mistake too. If the problem is that Webb was unhappy with Michigan or his college coach, I would have advised him to transfer to another school for a year and perhaps then, depending on whether he was winning at the college level, think about the pros. In any case it's too late now. I wish him great success. Kurt Bray _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
I agree with you. And, I hope his decision takes him right to his goals. It is great that we are able to have this debate at all in the U.S. There are a lot of great young U.S. distance runners coming up. I think this issue will be revisited a few times over the next several years. I hope good notes are being taken. Kurt Bray wrote: I worry about Webb going pro now not over any questions of money nor even educational opportunity - he's an adult now and can judge those things for himself. My concern is that he not harm his development by rushing to jump to a higher level of the sport when he has not yet mastered his current level. Things worked out great for Tiger, but he was already beating the crap out of all the college boys. If Tiger had been getting cuffed around at the college level the way Webb has, I would have thought his going pro after one year would have been a mistake too. If the problem is that Webb was unhappy with Michigan or his college coach, I would have advised him to transfer to another school for a year and perhaps then, depending on whether he was winning at the college level, think about the pros. In any case it's too late now. I wish him great success. Kurt Bray _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
I think Webb would have been better off to stay in college, but people are blowing this decision way out of proportion. As far as I have heard he is still going to be getting an education and he will likely be running in some of the same meets he would have at Michigan. It really boils down to a coaching decision, which I believe Webb should be allowed to choose for himself (It is his career). A lot of the posts are right to point out the notable diffrences between Webb and Tiger Woods or Kobe Bryant. However, I think it is safe to assume Webb is being paid enough to pay his bills. If he doesn't develop in the next couple of years, he is likely going to be in the almost the same place he would have been if he didn't develop at Michigan. More than likely fairly debt free with a college degree and 40+ years in the working world ahead of him. Even if he doesn't graduate from college in a timely manner he could go back in a few years if running doesn't pan out. It's not ! like he's going to end up homeless on the street if he doesn't develop into a great miler. Matthew
RE: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be surprised and disappointed) he gets: a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative (that's 50K a year for life invested)) Let's be realistic here instead of throwing all kinds of numbers around. First off, what company in their right mind would be willing to give an unproven 19 year-old track athlete a million dollar signing bonus? A shoe company? It just doesn't make sense. I would guess that the main target audience for purchasing running shoes (and apparel) are recreational runners and people looking for a comfortable walking shoe. These are the people driving the industry. Look at any issue of Runner's World, Running Times or even TFN and odds are you'll see plenty of shoe ads. How many ads have an elite athlete in it? Zero? One, maybe? Track stars just don't drive product sales to the running/walking masses. I know it's comparing apples to oranges but less and less NBA stars have huge shoe contracts. If I recall, Reebok dropped Shaq a few years ago. Here's a guy who gets more national (and even international) TV exposure in one game than Alan Webb will probably get in his lifetime, and it still doesn't help sell shoes! Another example being thrown out is Tiger Woods. Companies pay him big bucks because he helps them sell product. Golfers are willing to shell out $400 for a Nike driver or $40 for a box of golf balls just because Tiger uses the same equipment. Plus he gets his sponsors a ton of high-level media exposure on a regular basis. An elite track and field athlete doesn't have the same pull nor the access to prime media outlets to garner mass exposure for sponsors. Unless it's an Olympic year. That's a reality. If Alan Webb gets a 7 figure signing bonus or even a $100,000 a year deal then good for him. I just find it hard to fathom (from a business perspective) why any company would be willing to shell out that kind of money for him at this time. John __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
t-and-f: ONE MILLION DOLLARS
a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative (that's 50K a year for life invested)) One million dollar signing bonus? Who's paying? Dr Evil? Maybe you meant to say ONE BILLION DOLLAR signing bonus. malmo
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
And the people talking about money are arguing against themselves in any event. Old story: Man to beautiful woman in bar: Will you sleep with me for a million dollars? Beautiful woman: Of course. Man: Will you sleep with me for a dollar? Beautiful woman: Of course not. What do you think I am-some kind of whore? Man: We've already established that. We're now just negotiating price. Those talking about money don't seem to have a problem with Ray's pimping, they are just questioning whether or not he has done a good enough job. malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 million dollar house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the case. Shawn's cut-off seems to be 1,000,000. It's likely less than that. I'll concede it should be greater than 1.00. So the number that should make people happy is somewhere between 1 dollar and 1,000,000. What is that number and do we know for sure that he is not getting it? As far as John Sun's comments are concerned, since when can business people be counted on to pay what the appropriate market is? Do a search and include dot-com and bubble in your search parameters. Draw your own conclusions. We don't know what he is getting. We can't guess. It might be enough. Show me the money. Fred Finke wrote: Hi. Fred Finke Here. Actually I was not talking about money as everyone appears to be thinking. I was strictly referring to the fact that, although I would never recommend it to any HS athlete in any sport, we do not know the specifics of the entire move. Maybe, just maybe, he is doing what he and his parents think is best. Maybe he is really doing the best thing: Striking while the iron is hot. Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be surprised and disappointed) he gets: a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative (that's 50K a year for life invested)) b. -Guaranteed 4 year school scholarship of his choice (NO College guarantees that, and I would bet ANYTHING that was part of the deal) c. -Coaching that includes the guy that got him 3:53 (and you can be sure that he will have access to other coaches as necessary) d. -One of the best (if not THE best) manager in the game as his agent (that can use the leverage of his other athletes to get Webb into races). e. -The ability to pick and schedule ALL of his races (which I doubt would just include 1500/mile races) around the worlds schedule instead of just the collegiate schedule. f. -Be surrounded by the support group that has worked so far (His HS Coach, parents, girlfriend(?), etc) g. -Be in a training group of HIS choice. h. -Still race all the NCAA (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) races he wants (on his schedule, as an open athlete) except for the NCAA championships. (What meet would not want him in their race as a draw?) What could ANY college program do to top that set-up? And last but not least, I find it interesting (at least it appears to me) that the common perception is that the progression of coaching excellence is as follows:, club youth coaches, HS coaches, college coaches, elite coaches, each having better coaches than the one before it. I still remember Radzko (His HS coach, sp?) getting hammered during Webb's' junior year when he had Webb pass on a race or two (I think it was national scholastic) and then having Webb in some relays instead of open events (Penn relays?). As we all know, there are rotten apples at ALL levels and there is excellence at ALL levels. We may not want to sell Radzko short. In the final analysis, it comes down (IMHO) to what the athlete feels is best for his success and his future. Obviously, he would have gotten good coaching and racing experiences at Michigan, but who is to say that he did not get an even BETTER situation? Fred PS-On the other hand, how about the experts that were screaming Ritzenheim that was overraced in HS. Seems to me he is doing pretty well. (BTW, how many of you experts knew that Ritz negative split almost EVERY 2K lap of the 12K at the world XC Championships?) *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- ^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:51 AM To: Fred Finke Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts.
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Although Webb's on a slightly higher level: Can you say Liz Mueller? Foot Locker champ went to several colleges, kept leaving because she didn't like the coaches, wound up someplace where the coach allowed her to pick her own races and set her own training schedule. She is now a boxer, fighting professionally, and has several elaborate tatoos. Maybe we'll see Webb in Athens, not as a miler, but as a bantamweight. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
Nope. malmo thinks the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when the slimy John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he becomes just another runner. malmo thinks that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track fans. malmo malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 million dollar house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the case.
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
It could happen. Dave Sandridge former Van Cortlandt Park XC HS recorder holder once whupped Golden Gloves Champion (and future boxing legend) Sugar Ray Leonard's a$$ in a lockerroom brawl. Like Webb, college (Villanova) wasn't for Sandridge either. malmo Although Webb's on a slightly higher level: Can you say Liz Mueller? Foot Locker champ went to several colleges, kept leaving because she didn't like the coaches, wound up someplace where the coach allowed her to pick her own races and set her own training schedule. She is now a boxer, fighting professionally, and has several elaborate tatoos. Maybe we'll see Webb in Athens, not as a miler, but as a bantamweight. Jim Gerweck Running Times
t-and-f: Queens of the Relays
Netters: Once again this year, Woodrow Wilson HS of Camden has turned in an outstanding all-around relay performance in New Jersey, placing no worse than 7th in the state performance lists in seven of the standard eight events and second in three of them. The performances, in turn, were 48.32 for 400M (4th), 1:42.59 for 800M (3rd), 3:53.94 for 1600R (5th), 9:19.5 for 3200M (2nd), 4;)2.89 for the 1600M SMR (2nd), 12:27.14 for the DMR (7th) and 1:01.17 for the SHR (2nd); The 1600 time would probably have been faster but Wilson was shut out of state meet at the group level because its entry card went missing before the final check-in. (In NJM the season's big effort comes in the all-group meet)/ The absence of any mark for the 6400(or 4M)R was due to lack of opportunity rather than talent. The race is not available in too many meets in our state. Wilson had the horses with Linbdsay Thomas running 5:07.82 in a scratch race, Takesha Carter 5:11.67 and Taneshia Pittman under 5:15. (The fourth leg is ca[able of around 5:20) Wilson also posted a 1:46.46 in the 800M SMR which was run for the first time at the Nationals. Quite a record and particularly so for a middle-sized (Gr. III in our state) inner-city school. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Webb going pro
As far as John Sun's comments are concerned, since when can business people be counted on to pay what the appropriate market is? Do a search and include dot-com and bubble in your search parameters. Draw your own conclusions. Business people will only pay what the market demands. Simple economics. Sure, in hindsight a lot of people were wildly overpaid during the dot-com bubble. But if you were trying to hire employees during that time, you had to pay through the nose for people, even if they were less qualified then you wanted. It was a sellers market. Professional team sports offer a great example. These are billion dollar businesses, and the owners pay what the market will bear. If it's 10 years at $252 mill for ARod or 5 years at $90 mill for Barry Bonds, it all depends on current market conditions and demand. In the case of AWebb, there is already a pretty good precedent on what the appropiate demand and market value is for track and field stars in the US. And it's not much. Face it, track field in its current state is not a big-money sport and probably will never be. Most people could care less about it in non-Olympic years. And those that do care, like the folks on this list, aren't spending enough to make a difference. Just my thoughts on the matter. John __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
t-and-f: USATF Release: Race walkers, sprinters highlight Day 1 of USA Juniors
Contact:Jill M. Geer Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org 317-261-0500 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Friday, June 21, 2002 Race walkers, Richards highlight Day 1 of USA Juniors PALO ALTO, CALIF. Athletes from two opposing event groups race walkers and sprinters turned in some of the most impressive performances in the first day of competition at the 2002 USA Junior National Championships, held at Cobb Track and Angell Field on the Stanford University campus. The top two finishers in each event at USA Junior Nationals, part of the Verizon Youth Series, are eligible for selection to Team USA for the World Junior Championships July 16-21 in Kingston, Jamaica. Final selection to the team is at the discretion of USATF and its committees. Race walkers from the University of Wisconsin-Parkside turned in some of the most significant performances of the meet. In the mens 10,000m race walk, Benjamin Shorey won his second straight U.S. junior title in record form, shattering Tim Seamans American Junior record (43:03.37 in 1991) with his time of 42:50.20. Robyn Stevens became just the third athlete in meet history to win her event four consecutive years. The Wisconsin-Parkside freshman broke her own women s 10,000m race walk meet record by more than 50 seconds with a time of 50 minutes, 29.32 seconds. The womens 200m pitted two of the most heralded U.S. juniors against each other, and the competition was worthy of premeet expectations. Sanya Richards of St. Thomas Aquinas HS (Fla.) outdueled Allyson Felix of L.A. Baptist, running 23.31 to edge Felixs 23.34. Running shoulder-to-shoulder in adjacent lanes, the two crossed the finish line virtually even, with Felix falling to the track after the finish line. The two led six women under the World Outdoor qualifying time of 24.44. The win was especially meaningful for Richards, a native of Jamaica who obtained U.S. citizenship just weeks prior to the meet. She now will return to her native country for World Juniors. Felixs brother, Wes Felix of the University of Southern California, avenged his sisters defeat by comfortably winning the mens 200m in 21.57. John-Paul Smolenski of Purdue broke the meet record in the mens hammer throw with a mark of 65.50m/215-3. In other finals Friday, Laura Gerrhaughty of North Carolina won the womens hammer throw with a mark of 58.73m/192-8; Jarrad Matthews of Texas AM took the mens hammer with 66.58m/218-5; and Ashley Robbins won the womens high jump (1.82m/5-11.5). Marvin Lucas of Southern Miss jumped 7.58m/24-10.5 to win the mens long jump; high schooler Tommy Skipper of the Willamette Striders took the mens pole vault (5.35m/17-6.5); Michael Robertson of ISB won the mens discus (61.61m/202-1); and Erica McLain of the Texas Express won the womens long jump (5.88m/19-3.50). The top qualifiers in Fridays preliminary rounds were Kathryn Anderson of Brigham Young in the womens 1,500m (4:29.02), Adam Perkins of Liberty HS (Mo.) in the mens 1,500m (3:52.83); Monique Henderson of UCLA in the women s 400m (53.10), Darold Williamson of Baylor in the mens 400m (46.44), Tiffany Ross of South Carolina in the 100m hurdles (13.49); Evelyn Dwyer in the womens 800m (2:09.51); Richard Smith of South Lakes HS in the mens 800m (1:50.90); Bershawn Jackson in the mens 400m hurdles (50.33); LaShinda Demus of South Carolina in the womens 400m hurdles (56.97). The mens 10,000m final and womens 5,000m final are scheduled for 9:45 p.m. and 10:20 p.m., respectively, on Friday. For full, real-time results from the USA Junior Championships and athlete quotes, visit the USATF Web site, www.usatf.org. The meet continues on Saturday, and tickets are still available. For ticket information, call 1-800-STANFORD. # # #
t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer
Greetings, all The Associated Press reports that Lance Deal, who turned 40 last August, has won his ninth USATF national open title in the hammer: Lance Deal, who retired after the 2000 Sydney Olympics, returned to win his ninth national title in the hammer throw with a toss of 244-5. That ties Hal Connolly, who won nine U.S. titles in the hammer in the 1950s and 1960s. Deal, who only began working out seriously again in March, said nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be back here at the national championships. I just decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December and it just filled my heart, said the graying Deal. It was like visiting an old friend. Deal, 40, was an Olympic silver medalist at the 1996 Atlanta Games and dominated hammer throwing in the United States throughout the 1990s. Me again: Deal brroke the listed American M40 record for the hammer of 243-11 (74.34) by Ed Burke at age 44 in 1984 and is 4 feet shy of the world masters record of 75.66 (248-3) by Yuriy Sedykh of Ukraine. Ken Stone http:/www.masterstrack.com Results: Flash Results, Inc. 2002 USA Outdoor Championships - 6/21/2002 to 6/23/2002 Cobb Track Angell Field, Stanford Univ. Event 39 Men Hammer Throw == American: 82.52m 9/7/1996Lance Deal, NYAC NameYear TeamFinals == Finals 1 Lance Deal New York Ath74.49m 244-05 72.41m 73.02m 74.49m 70.81m FOUL 74.41m 2 John McEwen Team ZMA74.18m 243-04 73.51m 74.18m FOUL 71.88m 71.87m 73.40m 3 Kevin McMahonNew York Ath73.65m 241-08 73.12m FOUL PASS FOUL 73.65m 72.26m 4 Jay Harvard New York Ath72.47m 237-09 72.47m 71.48m 70.15m FOUL 69.31m 67.85m 5 Gerald Ingalls US Army 70.40m 231-00 68.27m 67.38m FOUL FOUL 70.40m 66.03m 6 James HeizmanShore A.C. 68.11m 223-05 67.43m FOUL FOUL 64.24m 68.11m 66.02m 7 Scott BoothbyClub NorthWest 67.53m 221-07 66.44m 67.53m FOUL 65.68m 66.14m 63.78m 8 Carey Ryan DePAul University 67.41m 221-02 67.41m 66.40m 65.28m 64.31m FOUL 65.04m 9 Travis NutterVision Quest67.33m 220-11 FOUL 65.13m 67.33m 10 Bert Sorin Mjolnir Thro67.25m 220-08 67.25m 65.90m 63.92m 11 thomas freeman Manhattan College 65.97m 216-05 64.91m FOUL 65.97m 12 Kevin Mannon New York Ath65.42m 214-07 62.72m 64.95m 65.42m
t-and-f: Karen Dennis canned at UNLV
Y ask: The Associated Press reports out of Las Vegas: Karen Dennis, who headed the women's U.S. Olympic track and field team that won seven gold medals in Sydney, has been fired by UNLV. Athletic director John Robinson said in a statement Friday that Dennis' contract won't be renewed after June 30. He said he wanted to move the track and field women's program in a new direction. Dennis said she was baffled by the firing. She coached 16 All-Americans in 27 events during her 10 years at UNLV. Assistant coaches Don Giardina and Qingyi Zheng also were dismissed. Me again: Some mystery! What's behind all this? Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com P.S. Lance Deal's AR in M40 hammer is automatically recognized, since it came in a nationals. No paperwork hoop-jumping needed on his part.
RE: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer
Let me guess, it won't be a Masters record unless he files the proper documentation with those authorities? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer Greetings, all The Associated Press reports that Lance Deal, who turned 40 last August, has won his ninth USATF national open title in the hammer: Lance Deal, who retired after the 2000 Sydney Olympics, returned to win his ninth national title in the hammer throw with a toss of 244-5. That ties Hal Connolly, who won nine U.S. titles in the hammer in the 1950s and 1960s. Deal, who only began working out seriously again in March, said nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be back here at the national championships. I just decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December and it just filled my heart, said the graying Deal. It was like visiting an old friend. Deal, 40, was an Olympic silver medalist at the 1996 Atlanta Games and dominated hammer throwing in the United States throughout the 1990s. Me again: Deal brroke the listed American M40 record for the hammer of 243-11 (74.34) by Ed Burke at age 44 in 1984 and is 4 feet shy of the world masters record of 75.66 (248-3) by Yuriy Sedykh of Ukraine. Ken Stone http:/www.masterstrack.com Results: Flash Results, Inc. 2002 USA Outdoor Championships - 6/21/2002 to 6/23/2002 Cobb Track Angell Field, Stanford Univ. Event 39 Men Hammer Throw == American: 82.52m 9/7/1996Lance Deal, NYAC NameYear TeamFinals == Finals 1 Lance Deal New York Ath74.49m 244-05 72.41m 73.02m 74.49m 70.81m FOUL 74.41m 2 John McEwen Team ZMA74.18m 243-04 73.51m 74.18m FOUL 71.88m 71.87m 73.40m 3 Kevin McMahonNew York Ath73.65m 241-08 73.12m FOUL PASS FOUL 73.65m 72.26m 4 Jay Harvard New York Ath72.47m 237-09 72.47m 71.48m 70.15m FOUL 69.31m 67.85m 5 Gerald Ingalls US Army 70.40m 231-00 68.27m 67.38m FOUL FOUL 70.40m 66.03m 6 James HeizmanShore A.C. 68.11m 223-05 67.43m FOUL FOUL 64.24m 68.11m 66.02m 7 Scott BoothbyClub NorthWest 67.53m 221-07 66.44m 67.53m FOUL 65.68m 66.14m 63.78m 8 Carey Ryan DePAul University 67.41m 221-02 67.41m 66.40m 65.28m 64.31m FOUL 65.04m 9 Travis NutterVision Quest67.33m 220-11 FOUL 65.13m 67.33m 10 Bert Sorin Mjolnir Thro67.25m 220-08 67.25m 65.90m 63.92m 11 thomas freeman Manhattan College 65.97m 216-05 64.91m FOUL 65.97m 12 Kevin Mannon New York Ath65.42m 214-07 62.72m 64.95m 65.42m
Re: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer
Who wound you up? I think that it's time for another out-n-back run for you. Take care, JL Let me guess, it won't be a Masters record unless he files the proper documentation with those authorities? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer Greetings, all The Associated Press reports that Lance Deal, who turned 40 last August, has won his ninth USATF national open title in the hammer: Lance Deal, who retired after the 2000 Sydney Olympics, returned to win his ninth national title in the hammer throw with a toss of 244-5. That ties Hal Connolly, who won nine U.S. titles in the hammer in the 1950s and 1960s. Deal, who only began working out seriously again in March, said nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be back here at the national championships. I just decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December and it just filled my heart, said the graying Deal. It was like visiting an old friend. Deal, 40, was an Olympic silver medalist at the 1996 Atlanta Games and dominated hammer throwing in the United States throughout the 1990s. Me again: Deal brroke the listed American M40 record for the hammer of 243-11 (74.34) by Ed Burke at age 44 in 1984 and is 4 feet shy of the world masters record of 75.66 (248-3) by Yuriy Sedykh of Ukraine. Ken Stone http:/www.masterstrack.com Results: Flash Results, Inc. 2002 USA Outdoor Championships - 6/21/2002 to 6/23/2002 Cobb Track Angell Field, Stanford Univ. Event 39 Men Hammer Throw == American: 82.52m 9/7/1996Lance Deal, NYAC NameYear TeamFinals == Finals 1 Lance Deal New York Ath74.49m 244-05 72.41m 73.02m 74.49m 70.81m FOUL 74.41m 2 John McEwen Team ZMA74.18m 243-04 73.51m 74.18m FOUL 71.88m 71.87m 73.40m 3 Kevin McMahonNew York Ath73.65m 241-08 73.12m FOUL PASS FOUL 73.65m 72.26m 4 Jay Harvard New York Ath72.47m 237-09 72.47m 71.48m 70.15m FOUL 69.31m 67.85m 5 Gerald Ingalls US Army 70.40m 231-00 68.27m 67.38m FOUL FOUL 70.40m 66.03m 6 James HeizmanShore A.C. 68.11m 223-05 67.43m FOUL FOUL 64.24m 68.11m 66.02m 7 Scott BoothbyClub NorthWest 67.53m 221-07 66.44m 67.53m FOUL 65.68m 66.14m 63.78m 8 Carey Ryan DePAul University 67.41m 221-02 67.41m 66.40m 65.28m 64.31m FOUL 65.04m 9 Travis NutterVision Quest67.33m 220-11 FOUL 65.13m 67.33m 10 Bert Sorin Mjolnir Thro67.25m 220-08 67.25m 65.90m 63.92m 11 thomas freeman Manhattan College 65.97m 216-05 64.91m FOUL 65.97m 12 Kevin Mannon New York Ath65.42m 214-07 62.72m 64.95m 65.42m
Re: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer
I think thw wr for over 40 is held by sildorenko from last year. 80.03 Vasiliy Sidorenko RUS 01 05 1961 3 Tula 14 07 2001 80m.It might not last. Two of the all-time best hammer throwers are still going strong, Igor Astapkovich BLR 4.1.63, so 40 in january and Tibor Gécsek HUN 22.9.64 , 40 in september 2004. Igor has thrown 81.34 this year and Tibor has thrown 79.33. Igor threw 82.76,81.76 for Tibor. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:29:23 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.237.12]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:44:58 -0700 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:44:29 -0700 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1])by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5M1TJxf021131for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost)by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5M1TJwB021130for t-and-f-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35])by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5M1THxf021116for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id s.11f.12803c83 (15703) for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.129]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID54-0621212908; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:29:08 -0400 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jun 2002 01:44:29.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[597140C0:01C2198E] Greetings, all The Associated Press reports that Lance Deal, who turned 40 last August, has won his ninth USATF national open title in the hammer: Lance Deal, who retired after the 2000 Sydney Olympics, returned to win his ninth national title in the hammer throw with a toss of 244-5. That ties Hal Connolly, who won nine U.S. titles in the hammer in the 1950s and 1960s. Deal, who only began working out seriously again in March, said nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be back here at the national championships. I just decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December and it just filled my heart, said the graying Deal. It was like visiting an old friend. Deal, 40, was an Olympic silver medalist at the 1996 Atlanta Games and dominated hammer throwing in the United States throughout the 1990s. Me again: Deal brroke the listed American M40 record for the hammer of 243-11 (74.34) by Ed Burke at age 44 in 1984 and is 4 feet shy of the world masters record of 75.66 (248-3) by Yuriy Sedykh of Ukraine. Ken Stone http:/www.masterstrack.com Results: Flash Results, Inc. 2002 USA Outdoor Championships - 6/21/2002 to 6/23/2002 Cobb Track Angell Field, Stanford Univ. Event 39 Men Hammer Throw == American: 82.52m 9/7/1996Lance Deal, NYAC NameYear TeamFinals == Finals 1 Lance Deal New York Ath74.49m 244-05 72.41m 73.02m 74.49m 70.81m FOUL 74.41m 2 John McEwen Team ZMA74.18m 243-04 73.51m 74.18m FOUL 71.88m 71.87m 73.40m 3 Kevin McMahonNew York Ath73.65m 241-08 73.12m FOUL PASS FOUL 73.65m 72.26m 4 Jay Harvard New York Ath72.47m 237-09 72.47m 71.48m 70.15m FOUL 69.31m 67.85m 5 Gerald Ingalls US Army 70.40m 231-00 68.27m 67.38m FOUL FOUL 70.40m 66.03m 6 James HeizmanShore A.C. 68.11m 223-05 67.43m FOUL FOUL 64.24m 68.11m 66.02m 7 Scott BoothbyClub NorthWest 67.53m 221-07 66.44m 67.53m FOUL 65.68m 66.14m 63.78m 8 Carey Ryan DePAul University 67.41m 221-02 67.41m 66.40m 65.28m 64.31m FOUL 65.04m 9 Travis NutterVision Quest67.33m 220-11 FOUL 65.13m 67.33m 10 Bert Sorin Mjolnir Thro67.25m 220-08 67.25m 65.90m 63.92m 11 thomas freeman Manhattan College 65.97m 216-05 64.91m FOUL 65.97m 12 Kevin Mannon New York Ath65.42m 214-07 62.72m 64.95m 65.42m
t-and-f: USATF Release: Ross sets AR in javelin as field events dominate Day 1
Contact:Jill M. Geer Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org 317-261-0500 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Friday, June 21, 2002 Ross sets AR in javelin as field events dominate Day 1 PALO ALTO, Calif. An American record by a rising javelin star, the return of a hammer champion, exciting finals on the field and a semifinal message from a world record holder entertained 5,327 fans at the 2002 USA Outdoor Track Field Championships at Stanford Universitys Cobb Track and Angell Field. Serene Ross had the performance of the day, setting her second American record in three weeks in the womens javelin. The 24-year-old Purdue University senior unleashed a fourth-round throw of 60.06/197-0 to beat her own American-record mark of 59.64m/227-10, which she set in winning the NCAA Championships May 30 in Baton Rouge, La. I was not expecting a record, but I felt another throw coming, said Ross. I felt I had to work for this record. I think a world record is obtainable for the U.S. Two-hundred feet is my next goal. Forty-year-old Lance Deal, retired since the 2000 Olympic Games, returned to serious training for the hammer throw in March. A few months preparation was all he needed to succeed in making his ninth trip to the winners podium at the U.S. Championships. Nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think Id be back here at the national championships, said Deal, the 1996 Olympic silver medalist and a four-time Olympian. I decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December, and it filled up my heart. It was like visiting an old friend. The sentimental favorite in the hammer entering the meet, Deal proved that he has the motivation to match fans goodwill. He took the lead with his third-round throw of 74.49m/244-5, vaulting him ahead of runner-up John McEwen, the two-time U.S. indoor weight throw champion, who had a best of 74.18m/243-4. Deals mark was the third-best throw by an American so far in 2002, behind two marks by 2001 U.S. outdoor champ Kevin McMahon. McMahon, who aggravated an injury suffered earlier this week on his first throw, finished third at Stanford with a best throw of 73.65m/241-8. The mens long jump provided terrific drama and high-level competition, with 2001 U.S. champion Savante Stringfellow leading three men over 27 feet. Stringfellows jump of 8.52m/27-11.5 was a hair shy of 28 feet and enough to defeat 2002 U.S. indoor champion Miguel Pate (8.45m/27-8.75). Dwight Phillips was third at 8.25m/27-1.0. In the womens high jump, indoor champion Tisha Waller continued her strong comeback after a year off by winning with a U.S.-leading clearance of 1.96m/6-5. It was the fourth U.S. title for the American indoor record holder. Gwen Wentland was second at 1.93m/6-4, and 2001 champion Amy Acuff was third with 1.90m/6-2.75. Terri Steer won her first U.S. outdoor title in the womens shot put with a throw of 19.20m/63-0, just .5 inch off her personal best, to defeat reigning champion Seilala Sua (18.51/60-8.75). The victory comes on the heels of Steers 2002 U.S. indoor title and completes her recovery from a torn Achilles tendon injury suffered in 2001 at Stanford. Arizona senior Brianna Glenn won her first U.S. senior title in the long jump with a distance of 6.46m/21-2.5. Indoor champion Grace Upshaw was second at 6.43m/21-1.25. In Fridays lone track finals, two-time runner-up Jen Rhines won her first U.S. title in the womens 10,000m with a time of 31:57.38. Running steady laps of 75 to 77 seconds, Rhines grabbed the lead from the gun and proceeded to annihilate the field. Milena Glusac was second in a personal best of 32:15.09; Katie McGregor in third also set a PB at 32:17.49. Meb Keflezighi, the 2000 Olympic Trials champion, returned to the site of his 2001 American record to win the mens 10,000m in 27:41.68. A last lap of 60.5 seconds pushed Keflezighi past 2001 U.S. champion Abdi Abdirahman (27:42.83). Alan Culpepper was third in 27:48.09. 2001 U.S. 100m champion Chryste Gaines ran a speedy time of 10.96 with a headwind of 2.6 mps to win the first semifinal heat of the womens 100m. Olympic champion and 2002 world leader Marion Jones answered with a 10.98 running into a 4.2 mps headwind, setting the stage for an electric final Saturday afternoon. In the first round, Jones ran 11.26 into a brisk headwind of 4.2 mps, with Gaines posting a time of 11.22 with a headwind of 2.6 mps. The semifinals of the mens 100m brought together world champion and world record holder Maurice Greene against 2001 U.S. champion Tim Montgomery for the first time this year. Having the fastest seed time from the first round (10.17), Montgomery ran in lane 4 and Greene (first round 10.22) was in lane 5. Bursting from the blocks and moving clear of the field, Greene sent message for the final by winning in 9.99, looking behind and to his left, toward Montgomery, as he crossed the finish line.
