t-and-f: First Pair of Spikes (was: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC)
>the first pair of spikes I ever had, circa '63, >were Bauers. Each of those heavy-leather monsters weighed about as much as a >shot, but boy, were those 1-inch spikes killers! >gh My first pair of spikes (in the late 60's) was when my brother wanted a pair real bad and my folks figured they better get a pair for both of us older boys (the youngest brother eventual real family track star was still in kindergarten at the time), since us two older brothers were very competitive with each other. I chose a pair of Adidas Tokyo's. A real pair of blue suede shoes, and very fast. I eventually set my HS's school records at 880y and 4x440y relay in those pair, and I still have them in a box out in the garage. My brother went for a pair of leather Spalding spikes. That's right, Spalding make track spikes in those days. They were white with red stripes. I have no idea whatever happened to them. They were definitely heavier than my Tokyo's. My brother was a miler/2-miler, while I was more a 440/880 type. Incidently, that box out in the garage has a lot of vintage running shoes from my competitive days in the early & mid-70's. Now my son is in HS. We were looking through that box a few weeks ago, and fished out an almost-new pair of Nike Waffle Racers, circa 1976- the yellow ones with the green swoosh, green shoestrings, and green waffle sole. Super light weight- very popular back then and better than 99% of the racing flats that are sold today. Anyway, my son tried them on, they fit perfectly and he took them to school to show off. None of the kids on his team had ever seen such a thing and a bunch of them want to know where they can buy them. You'd think Nike and the other companies would figure out that they had some very good shoes back in the 70's, and they could sell a bunch of 'em today if they'd just bring 'em out again. Sure they could switch the colors or whatever- it was the great design of the shoe itself that was intuitively obvious to those teenagers this week on my son's HS cross country team. My son says he's gonna wear them in some races this fall. The shoes look good- little apparent wear and tear, but I hope the age of the stitching doesn't make them susceptible to splitting when stressed. Maybe it would be a good idea to 'tape wrap' them just before a race to be on the safe side. RT
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
I think the IOC would agree that cross country *could* be contested entirely on snow or ice, but the point is that their policy is that a sport always *must* be contested on snow or ice to get into the Winter Games. The fact that XC's rules do not require a snow covered course disqualifies it. Kurt Bray >I know Fred that you live in Florida, but you can run a cross-country race >entirely on snow and ice. Once I went to compete in a cross-country ski >race >but it had rained the night before then froze. The director changed it into >a running race over the same course. My shoes never touched ground. >Tom Derderian >- Original Message - >From: "Fred Finke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Shawn Devereaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ghill" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "track list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:04 AM >Subject: RE: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > Actually I investigated getting XC as an olympic event 4 years and even >got > > a response from the IOC. The reason that it will NEVER be possible (as >I > > was told) is that all winter sports must take place on snow or ice. > > > > > > *** > > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator > >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 > >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- \/\ > > *** > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shawn Devereaux > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:47 PM > > To: ghill; track list > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > > > how about indoor track at the winter olympics? > > > > > > --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > > > > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure >why > > > there > > > > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K >distance > > > for > > > > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only > > > by the > > > > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds > > > after the > > > > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> > > > > > > Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer > > > (and > > > make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its >caveat > > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was >their > > > "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > > _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
I know Fred that you live in Florida, but you can run a cross-country race entirely on snow and ice. Once I went to compete in a cross-country ski race but it had rained the night before then froze. The director changed it into a running race over the same course. My shoes never touched ground. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: "Fred Finke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Shawn Devereaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ghill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "track list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:04 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > Actually I investigated getting XC as an olympic event 4 years and even got > a response from the IOC. The reason that it will NEVER be possible (as I > was told) is that all winter sports must take place on snow or ice. > > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ > *** > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shawn Devereaux > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:47 PM > To: ghill; track list > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > how about indoor track at the winter olympics? > > > --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why > > there > > > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance > > for > > > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only > > by the > > > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds > > after the > > > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> > > > > Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer > > (and > > make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their > > "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > >
RE: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Tom, I agree totally (I did grow up in NY and ran my HS state meet in Buffalo in the Snow!). However, yours and my view do not coincide with that of the IOC. Xc runners would touch the ground. Fred -Original Message- From: Tom Derderian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 7:23 PM To: Fred Finke; Shawn Devereaux; ghill; track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC I know Fred that you live in Florida, but you can run a cross-country race entirely on snow and ice. Once I went to compete in a cross-country ski race but it had rained the night before then froze. The director changed it into a running race over the same course. My shoes never touched ground. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: "Fred Finke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Shawn Devereaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ghill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "track list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:04 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > Actually I investigated getting XC as an olympic event 4 years and even got > a response from the IOC. The reason that it will NEVER be possible (as I > was told) is that all winter sports must take place on snow or ice. > > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ > *** > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shawn Devereaux > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:47 PM > To: ghill; track list > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > how about indoor track at the winter olympics? > > > --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why > > there > > > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance > > for > > > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only > > by the > > > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds > > after the > > > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> > > > > Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer > > (and > > make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their > > "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > >
RE: t-and-f: concrete vs. asphalt
I agree with most of what Christopher and Jim said, yet would like to weigh in, perhaps more as a runner than a physicist. Some additional things to take into account: (Warning: lengthy and extremely boring text follows) The overly simplistic argument for why asphalt should NOT be very different from concrete goes like this: both surfaces are very hard (have similar Young moduli for those who got that far in their physics/engineering courses), and neither surface deforms much under the typical force of a landing impact. So most of the "breaking" distance is created by the shoe itself. Let's say the shoe softens the "fall" by deforming by 3mm, and the asphalt deforms by .15 mm while concrete deforms by .1 mm (arbitrary numbers, obviously exaggerating the difference between asphalt/concrete which should be way smaller). Then you have 3.15mm total for asphalt vs. 3.10mm for concrete, and such difference should not be noticeable at all. If anything, this should tell us that people should be much more sensitive to the cushioning factor of your shoes, and we all know runners can barely tell when they need to get a new pair (yet at the same time they feel asphalt is softer than concrete). This is of course, an overly simplistic approach, and Jim/Christopher went further into explaining why things are not that simple. However, I also wonder if perhaps the imaginary experiment to test the difference between the two surfaces would be instead of slamming a hammer *directly* onto an asphalt/concrete surface, slam it onto the surface covered with, say, 1 cm of blown rubber or EVA. If people feel the difference between two surfaces through the rubber soles of their shoes, the hammer experiment should incorporate that too. There may be still some differences in terms of reflected energy, but I am willing to bet that most people will NOT be able to tell whether the surface underneath a thick layer of EVA foam is concrete or asphalt (or track Mondo surface or even packed dirt trail for that matter). Which brings me to the following factor which has not yet been mentioned - most asphalt-covered roads and sidewalks are actually not that flat at all. They may look smooth/flat when you are driving, but look a little closer when you are walking/running. Over time asphalt has a tendency to form subtle (and very irregular) "waves" on the surface. Degree of modulation may depend on a number of things - age of the road, typical weather conditions/temperature cycle, road usage etc. - but it's very rarely as flat as concrete plates. The characteristic length of such waves is normally more than a foot yet not by much. This means that depending on where you put your foot down, the surface will be somewhat inclined and perhaps curved over the length scale of your footprint. Again, I am talking about very subtle modulations which produce very subtle curvature/height variations, yet what this means is that while running over asphalt, each of your steps will be slightly different in terms of how the impact is be distributed over your bones and connective tissue. At the same time, concrete remains very flat, meaning you repeat the same impact profile over and over (and over), and this quickly leads to fatigue and possible injury in whatever "hot spot" you have - depending on your gait. Some of the rockiest nature trails are still easier on your feet than similarly "hard" smooth surfaces like concrete. In fact, I believe that running over otherwise "soft" (but very flat) linoleum or wooden floors (such as often found in indoor tennis and basketball courts) will be perceived by most runners as harder compared to such rocky trails. Running barefoot on gently modulating surfaces like grass or dirt trails is perceived to be much softer than running on concrete road while wearing the most cushioned trainers ever made. When the ground freezes in the winter the packed-dirt trails become very hard - perhaps very similar to asphalt in terms of our imaginary "hammer" experiment, yet they still feel softer than asphalt/concrete - for a very simple reason that they maintain to offer variety and every step feels slightly different from the previous step. On the other hand I've always felt that a treadmill, despite the alleged shock absorption, is still pretty hard on your legs because of a more monotonous surface which offers almost no variety in the way your foot strikes the surface. Note however, that perhaps treadmill does indeed absorb more energy than asphalt or concrete, which is why many lower mileage runners will be quite happy with it - it's the high mileage runners who will suffer more from the RSI-type overuse injury. There may be other similar disagreements when discussing relative hardness of various surfaces by different runners - I know people who prefer asphalt to trails. So while freshly poured asphalt may be intrinsically softer, older asphalt may *feel* even softer if it forms "gently rolling" mini-hills. Of course if the asp
RE: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Actually I investigated getting XC as an olympic event 4 years and even got a response from the IOC. The reason that it will NEVER be possible (as I was told) is that all winter sports must take place on snow or ice. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shawn Devereaux Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:47 PM To: ghill; track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC how about indoor track at the winter olympics? --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why > there > > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance > for > > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only > by the > > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds > after the > > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> > > Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer > (and > make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their > "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: CC sie
In a message dated 8/28/02 9:17:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Does anyone out there hade the address of a good site to retrieve college CC results this fall. Ed Grant >> Subscribers to X-Country X-Press will have all the results they can handle e-mailed to them each weekend. Walt Murphy
t-and-f: Pole Vault Standard
Does anyone on the list have the March 1999 edition of the Pole Vault Standard? I am looking for the article by David Lease. Please contact me privately. thanks, Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps & Multis Coach Syracuse University Track & Field _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
t-and-f: CC sie
Netters: Does anyone out there hade the address of a good site to retrieve college CC results this fall. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
I thought the biggest (mass participation) headache of the Olympics was the Opening Ceremonies? (How long was the Opening ceremonies? 5 hours? Pity the host country's athletes standing and waiting for hours to march into the stadium) The Canada Games (held every 4 years, the year after the Olympics, to showcase the upcoming talent) splits up the event into 2 weeks. Week 1 participants goes to the opening ceremonies, and week 2 participants goes to the closing ceremonies. You would also need only half the number of beds/rooms in the athlete village, in most cases. Then again, you can watch the NBC tape delay Opening Ceremonies in under 2 hours :o) Jimson.
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
> From: "Colleen Rorick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Colleen Rorick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:22:42 -0700 > To: "Lee Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Track Posts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > Wonder if adidas produces ice skates? Or would Maurice switch back to > Nike? Based on current form, he might be responsible for more Nike sales > now than when he was under contract to them. > a quick google search says no: Nike got into the business in a big way a few years back, but the old-liners, CCM and Bauer, are still pretty dominant. I only mention this becuase the first pair of spikes I ever had, circa '63, were Bauers. Each of those heavy-leather monsters weighed about as much as a shot, but boy, were those 1-inch spikes killers! gh
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Yeah, you'd think Nike would have come out with some "Before" and "After" ads. :-) > Wonder if adidas produces ice skates? Or would Maurice switch back to >Nike? Based on current form, he might be responsible for more Nike sales >now than when he was under contract to them. > Jim >- Original Message - >From: "Lee Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:51 PM >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > >> As Gary said, only if Maurice, et al, are wearing ice skates. That >> should make the end of the 60 meters interesting! >> >> >how about indoor track at the winter olympics? >> > >> >--- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat >> > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was >their >> >> "recent" response to basketball suggestions. >> > > >> > >> -- >> Lee Nichols >> Assistant News Editor >> The Austin Chronicle >> 512/454-5766, ext. 138 >> fax 512/458-6910 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Wonder if adidas produces ice skates? Or would Maurice switch back to Nike? Based on current form, he might be responsible for more Nike sales now than when he was under contract to them. Jim - Original Message - From: "Lee Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:51 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > As Gary said, only if Maurice, et al, are wearing ice skates. That > should make the end of the 60 meters interesting! > > >how about indoor track at the winter olympics? > > > >--- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their > >> "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > > > > > > -- > Lee Nichols > Assistant News Editor > The Austin Chronicle > 512/454-5766, ext. 138 > fax 512/458-6910 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: US Marathon Champ's
Hi All, Earlier this week, I mentioned that I was putting together a list of the top 20 finishers from the men's US Marathon Championships from the last decade. This was stimulated by an interest in those sorts of stats but also a desire for some idea of what it has taken recently to breach the top ten in a US Champs. So, this is what I was able to compile. I'm still missing most of the runners from the '92 trials. Heck I WATCHED that race, you'd think I'd remember more :-( I wasn't able to find anything but the winner from '93, not even the location :-( Only 3 of the LA Marathon runners from the '94 champs I've listed are U.S. runners - if anyone has more in depth results that would be great. 11th through 20th from the 1995 race were not for me to find. I only had last names from the 1999 race, so I filled in the firsts from memory of those I knew. Any additions would be cool! I have plumbed the depths of the internet and discovered that everything is there - IF it happened after 1995 :-) Many thanks to the Track and Field News website archives for some of these results. Most of the otheres were from race website historical archives. The more scattered results are from various articles mentioning something like "...the '92 trials race where my buddy Jim Hage finished 8th..." Some of those are not very reliable :-) Cheers, Buck Jones 1992 Olympic Trials - Columbus, OH 1. Steve Spence2:12:43 8. Jim Hage Ed Eyestone Kieth Brantly Bill Reifsnyder Bob Kempainen 1993 1. Ed Eyestone 2:14:34 1994 Los Angeles 1. Paul Pilkington 2:12:13 2. Luca Barzaghi' (Ita) 2:12:52 3. Andrzej Krzyscin' (Pol) 2:13:21 4. Marnix Goegebur' (Bel) 2:13:23 5. Gumercindo Olmedo' (Mex) 2:13:33 6. Marcelino Crisento' (Mex)2:13:38 7. Katsuya Natsumi' (Jpn) 2:14:19 8. Ernesto Eberstadt' (Mex) 2:14:33 9. Juan Torres Ruiz' (Spa) 2:14:40 10. Diamantino Dos Santos' (Bra)2:14:41 11. Danny Gonzalez (Reeb) 2:14:42 12. Santana' (Bra) 2:14:42 13. Ahmed Salah' (Dji) 2:15:04 14. Reynoso' (Mex) 2:15:39 15. Skosana' (SA) 2:18:37 ... 17. Darrell General (Miz) 2:18:47 1995 Charlotte, NC 1. Kieth Brantly 2:14:27 2. Ed Eyestone 2:14:36 3. Dan Held2:15:06 4. Don Janicki 2:15:38 5. Chris Fox 2:15:53 6. Terrence Mahon 2:18:01 7. Kieth Dowling 2:18:17 8. Darrell General 2:19:08 9. O'Brien 2:22:20 10. Ed Holzem 2:25:30 1996 Olympic Trials - Charlotte, NC 1 Bob Kempainen 2:12:45 2 Mark Coogan 2:13:05 3 Keith Brantly 2:13:22 4 Steve Plasencia 2:14:20 5 Marco Ochoa 2:14:22 6 Keith Dowling 2:14:30 7 Dan Held2:14:53 8 Jon Warren 2:15:59 9 Jeff Jacobs 2:16:13 10 David Morris2:16:20 11 Terrence Mahon 2:16:28 12 Darrell General 2:16:30 13 Ashley Johnson 2:16:39 14 Craig Woshner 2:16:41 15 Ed Eyestone 2:16:51 16 Budd Coates 2:17:26 17 Jose Iniguez2:17:42 18 Kevin Collins 2:17:51 19 Dennis Simonaitis 2:17:57 20 John Dimoff 2:18:06 21 Howard Nippert 2:19:08 22 Joe Lemay 2:19:10 23 Tom Redding 2:19:54 24 Steve Wilson2:19:58 25 Will Kimball2:20:21 1997 Pittsburg 1. David Scudamore 2:13:48 2. Ed Eyestone 2:16:24 3. Dan Held 2:16:52 4. Jerod Neas 2:17:25 5. Paul Zimmerman 2:17:51 6. Gary Giffin 2:18:12 7. Micheal Dudley 2:20:25 8. Michael Slinskey 2:21:20 9. Robb Finegan 2:21:59 10. Darrell General 2:22:47 11. Travis Walter 2:23:44 12. Robert Pierce 2:25:18 13. Philip Castillo 2:25:24 14. Andrew Herr 2:26:42 15. Thomas Lentz2:27:08 16. Budd Coates 2:27:18 17. Tom Jeffrey 2:27:45 18. Abidiel Bouazza 2:27:53 19. David Ciaverella2:28:51 1998 Pittsburg 1. Keith Brantly2:12:31 2. Alfredo Vigueras 2:14:52 3. David Morris 2:15:25 4. Darrell General 2:17:58 5. Ed Eystone, 2:18:10 6. Rene Guillen 2:18:55 7. Brad Hudson 2:19:56 8. Dan Mayer2:20:08 9. Jerod Neas 2:20:43 10. George Luke 2:20:55 11. Robert Devlin 2:21:40 12. Phillip Castillo2:22:11 13. Steve Swift 2:23:14 14. Scott Larson2:23:44 15. Robb Finegan2:24:57 16. Jeff Campbell 2:25:13 17. Eric Shafer 2:25:18 18. Thomas Jeffery 2:25:36 19. Thomas Lentz2:26:03 20. Kevin Graham
Re: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
> One interesting comment I've heard from some first timers at Chicago is that they would do more > speed work before the next time they run Chicago. After his 1997 run in Chicago, Khalid Khannouchi > said he would treat his next Chicago more like a 10,000 on the track. Yeah, but look at the staple workouts he did before both his world records - long, hard runs where he drops the pace down to faster than marathon pace by the end. That is probably the most common workout among all modern marathoners - a hard "pace" run of 15-23 miles, with most of them cutting down the pace as they go. He may have said he'd train more like a 10K runner, but I feel certain that the most critical piece in his world records (aside from talent and toghness) were these long hard runs, which a 10K runner would never do. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
One interesting comment I've heard from some first timers at Chicago is that they would do more speed work before the next time they run Chicago. After his 1997 run in Chicago, Khalid Khannouchi said he would treat his next Chicago more like a 10,000 on the track. alan tobin wrote: > Could be that the Chicago guys are putting in a high volume of miles so > running any race right now would prove to be futile. You'll see the same > with a lot of marathoners. Josh Cox and the Dr. Rosa's Kenyans don't race > much beyond a couple marathons and halfmarathons a year. If these guys > really want to run a fast Chicago what's the point in going to Van Damme > knowing you're not going to be near PR shape because of miles and maybe lack > of pure speed work needed to run a fast 10k. > The 10k and marathon are both similar and different events. > > Alan >
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
As Gary said, only if Maurice, et al, are wearing ice skates. That should make the end of the 60 meters interesting! >how about indoor track at the winter olympics? > >--- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their >> "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > > > -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: questions and answers
Hopefully this will be the last posting on the mystery News & Notes spam, and the problem will magically fix itself. Our crack IT staff looked into it by having examining the header on the multiple postings to the TnF list. Here's what they had to say: "Very strange. It doesn't appear that the messages are being sent by us (no usatf.org addresses and none of our IP address are showing up in the headers). I checked our server that we use to send to the media lists, and it wasn't sending any messages." So it looks like at this point we can cross our fingers and pray to the Darkwing gods that the madness will stop! -Original Message- From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:30 PM To: Lee Nichols Cc: USATF Communications; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002 Or, the lesson is: Don't piss off your intern if he has a minor in computer technology. Lee Nichols wrote: > Okay, if Joe is gone, could someone turn off his computer? > > >Contact: Joe Hughes > > Communications Intern > > USA Track & Field > > (317) 261-0478 x357 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.usatf.org > > > >USATF News & Notes > >Volume 3, Number 76August 5, 2002 > > > >USA 50 km trail championships > > > >A national-class field is anticipated at the USATF 50 km National Trail > >Championship for both Open and Masters runners on August 24 in Sausilito, > >Calif. > > > >More than 100 competitors already have registered for the championship, > >which will be run as part of the Golden Gate Headlands 50k Endurance Run on > >the coastal trails and fire roads north of San Francisco. In an attempt to > >appeal to a variety of runners, short portions of the course include beach > >running, a ladder, downed trees, technical sections with difficult footing > >and pavement, but mainly single track and fire roads with seven significant > >climbs and descents. > > > >Registration is open until race day. Only USATF members will be eligible for > >USATF Championship awards. USATF membership and event information are > >available online at www.usatf.org. > > > >Greene takes on coaching > > > >World 100m record-holder and reigning Olympic and World champion Maurice > >Greene has said he will work with the sprinters on the Taft High School > >track & field team in Woodland Hills, Calif., as a volunteer assistant. > > > >Greene will volunteer time when his schedule allows, assisting Taft High > >head coach and 1992 Olympic 400m and 4x400m gold medalist Quincy Watts. > >Watts is an alumnus of Taft High and was hired earlier as the head coach. > > > >Greene is currently training seriously at home in Los Angeles, and will > >return to the track for the second part of the IAAFs European season. His > >next competition will be on August 16 at the Weltklasse in Zurich, > >Switzerland, which is the next Golden League meet. > > > ># # # > > -- > Lee Nichols > Assistant News Editor > The Austin Chronicle > 512/454-5766, ext. 138 > fax 512/458-6910 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
how about indoor track at the winter olympics? --- ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why > there > > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance > for > > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only > by the > > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds > after the > > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> > > Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer > (and > make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat > that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their > "recent" response to basketball suggestions. > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Radcliffe response
> From: Lee Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Lee Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:40:19 -0500 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Radcliffe response > > Certainly doesn't strike me as odd. I haven't read the L'Equipe > article, but it doesn't sound like good journalism, if their comments > have been portrayed accurately.> I lost most of my respect for L'Equipe a decade or so ago when they were on a rampage against drug use in track while at the same time being the major sponsor of the Tour de France and staying basically mum on that subject. gh
Re: t-and-f: Radcliffe response
> > "LONDON (Reuters) - European 10,000 metres champion Paula Radcliffe has >> asked the IAAF to conduct random tests on her and to freeze her blood >> samples for future testing following media scepticism over her >> performances >> this year." > >Jeez, who is skeptical of her? She's not really doing anything that wasn't >already done back in the 1980's. Her performances and improvement seem >entirely consistent. It's not like she suddenly ran 29:30. > >- Ed Parrot That's exactly what I thought. I looked this up earlier today: 199930:27 200030:26 200130:55 200230:01 Certainly doesn't strike me as odd. I haven't read the L'Equipe article, but it doesn't sound like good journalism, if their comments have been portrayed accurately. -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002
Or, the lesson is: Don't piss off your intern if he has a minor in computer technology. Lee Nichols wrote: > Okay, if Joe is gone, could someone turn off his computer? > > >Contact: Joe Hughes > > Communications Intern > > USA Track & Field > > (317) 261-0478 x357 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.usatf.org > > > >USATF News & Notes > >Volume 3, Number 76August 5, 2002 > > > >USA 50 km trail championships > > > >A national-class field is anticipated at the USATF 50 km National Trail > >Championship for both Open and Masters runners on August 24 in Sausilito, > >Calif. > > > >More than 100 competitors already have registered for the championship, > >which will be run as part of the Golden Gate Headlands 50k Endurance Run on > >the coastal trails and fire roads north of San Francisco. In an attempt to > >appeal to a variety of runners, short portions of the course include beach > >running, a ladder, downed trees, technical sections with difficult footing > >and pavement, but mainly single track and fire roads with seven significant > >climbs and descents. > > > >Registration is open until race day. Only USATF members will be eligible for > >USATF Championship awards. USATF membership and event information are > >available online at www.usatf.org. > > > >Greene takes on coaching > > > >World 100m record-holder and reigning Olympic and World champion Maurice > >Greene has said he will work with the sprinters on the Taft High School > >track & field team in Woodland Hills, Calif., as a volunteer assistant. > > > >Greene will volunteer time when his schedule allows, assisting Taft High > >head coach and 1992 Olympic 400m and 4x400m gold medalist Quincy Watts. > >Watts is an alumnus of Taft High and was hired earlier as the head coach. > > > >Greene is currently training seriously at home in Los Angeles, and will > >return to the track for the second part of the IAAFs European season. His > >next competition will be on August 16 at the Weltklasse in Zurich, > >Switzerland, which is the next Golden League meet. > > > ># # # > > -- > Lee Nichols > Assistant News Editor > The Austin Chronicle > 512/454-5766, ext. 138 > fax 512/458-6910 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Radcliffe response
> "LONDON (Reuters) - European 10,000 metres champion Paula Radcliffe has > asked the IAAF to conduct random tests on her and to freeze her blood > samples for future testing following media scepticism over her > performances > this year." Jeez, who is skeptical of her? She's not really doing anything that wasn't already done back in the 1980's. Her performances and improvement seem entirely consistent. It's not like she suddenly ran 29:30. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
> From: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:19:12 -0700 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why there > hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance for > both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only by the > team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds after the > Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do.>> Basketball should also move to Winter to ease the crowding of Summer (and make Winter even more popular). Unfortuately, the IOC retains its caveat that all Winter sports must be conducted on frozen water. This was their "recent" response to basketball suggestions.
Re: t-and-f: concrete vs. asphalt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Suppose we take a temporal Fourier transform of the force applied to the > bottom of the foot at landing, and inspect the power invested in each > frequency. The most damaging frequencies ought to be those which correspond > to the normal modes of the bones in the leg, which I'm guessing should be > those for which the leg bones are a quarter wavelength. Determining the > ratio of frequency to wavelength requires knowing the effective speed of > sound: in air it's 330 m/s, in water 1480 m/s, and in bone up to 4200 m/s > (the web is a fantastic thing!). I don't know which to use; taking air as > a lower limit and bone as an upper limit, then for a 40 cm tibia, the damaging > frequencies would then be those between 200 Hz and 2600 Hz--which is roughly > the audio range. How could the relevant speed of sound be anything other than the speed of sound in bone? How could the speed of sound in air have anything to do with injuries? It is oscillations of the bone that are going to cause injury. Thus, the damaging frequencies would be in the upper range and more easily damped by the shoe. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com "Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Cross Country was in, during three editions, 1912, 1920 and 1924 . Notoriously, Nurmi's win in Paris in 32:54.8 minutes, with Ritola far back in 34:19 and no one else breaking 35 minutes, for an approximate 10 Km, in suffocating heat in Paris, 1924, was his most devastating victory and added two golds (individual and team) to the medal tally that eventually numbered 9 Olympic gold medals in 3 editions of the games. The conditions in Paris 1924 were so bad (including presumably a high degree of sir pollution) that about two thirds of those who had started the race did not finish it. Carl Lewis matched Nurmi's feat by winning the LJ in Atlanta. UG UG === Quoting Ed and Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Folks, > > I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the > > possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics > (here's > the > > link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): > > > > > > "Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the > three-day > event > > in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered > for > > elimination." > > > > > > I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another > about > > eliminating the walks. > > Perhaps I'm wrong, but technically wouldn't the IAAF have to eliminate > the > walks, not the IOC? I mean, we all know that pressure could be brought > to > bear by the IOC and the number of athletes for T& reduced, but isn't > it > basically an IAAF decision? > > - Ed Parrot >
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
X/C should be added to the winter Olympics, absolutely. Not sure why there hasn't been more of a push for this. Nice simple 12K and 4K distance for both men and women with team medals only but with qualification only by the team the same way some other team sports qualify. Have the worlds after the Olympics the same way that I believe several other sports do. - Ed - Original Message - From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > Add Cross-Country! > > Alan > > > >From: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:00:51 -0700 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from mc1-f19.law16.hotmail.com ([65.54.236.26]) by > >mc1-s1.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 28 Aug > >2002 11:12:19 -0700 > >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by > >mc1-f19.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 28 > >Aug 2002 11:10:46 -0700 > >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1])by > >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SI18MQ004004for > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:08 -0700 > >(PDT) > >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by darkwing.uoregon.edu > >(8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g7SI18dX004003for t-and-f-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug > >2002 11:01:08 -0700 (PDT) > >Received: from mx1.calipertech.com ([65.105.227.77])by darkwing.uoregon.edu > >(8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SI17MQ003911for > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) > >Received: from exchsvr2.inside.calipertech.com (gwx2.calipertech.com > >[65.203.43.7])by mx1.calipertech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id > >g7SI10p10638for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:00 > >-0700 > >Received: by exchsvr2.inside.calipertech.com with Internet Mail Service > >(5.5.2653.19)id ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:00 -0700 > >Message-ID: > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Precedence: bulk > >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2002 18:10:46.0631 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[3B5A1F70:01C24EBE] > > > >Folks, > > I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the > >possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics (here's the > >link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): > > > > > >"Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the three-day > >event > >in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered for > >elimination." > > > > > >I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another about > >eliminating the walks. > > > >-ernie lee. > > > > > _ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > >
t-and-f: Radcliffe response
No particular point here. Someone will have to explain to that 10 year old kid whose mother was struck and killed by a car while running in single file, off the road and against traffic in Ellicottville N.Y. last October that there isn't a lot of sympathy for her on this list. "LONDON (Reuters) - European 10,000 metres champion Paula Radcliffe has asked the IAAF to conduct random tests on her and to freeze her blood samples for future testing following media scepticism over her performances this year." http://sports.yahoo.com/m/sa/news/reuters/20020828/reu-radcliffe.html
Re: t-and-f: concrete vs. asphalt
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:18:25 -0500 (CDT) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: concrete vs. asphalt > > I await word from the list supervisor that political rants are to be preferred > to faux physics lectures,>> please, bring back Mr. Entine! :-) gh
Re: t-and-f: Associated Publishers Subscription Services
> One way you can tell if you're being scammed is if anybody offers you a > MULTI-YEAR subscription at a rate less than what the magazine quotes. On a similar note, for those who have a website with domain registration, be careful when receiving a "deceptive renewal" from another company. Basically, its a request for a transfer disguised as a renewal notification. They hope the unsuspecting customer will transfer their domain name to their company. Like unwanted email & the delete button, treat this as regular junk mail. Jimson.
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Add Cross-Country! Alan >From: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:00:51 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc1-f19.law16.hotmail.com ([65.54.236.26]) by >mc1-s1.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 28 Aug >2002 11:12:19 -0700 >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by >mc1-f19.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 28 >Aug 2002 11:10:46 -0700 >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1])by >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SI18MQ004004for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:08 -0700 >(PDT) >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by darkwing.uoregon.edu >(8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g7SI18dX004003for t-and-f-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug >2002 11:01:08 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from mx1.calipertech.com ([65.105.227.77])by darkwing.uoregon.edu >(8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SI17MQ003911for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from exchsvr2.inside.calipertech.com (gwx2.calipertech.com >[65.203.43.7])by mx1.calipertech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >g7SI10p10638for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:00 >-0700 >Received: by exchsvr2.inside.calipertech.com with Internet Mail Service >(5.5.2653.19)id ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:00 -0700 >Message-ID: ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2002 18:10:46.0631 (UTC) >FILETIME=[3B5A1F70:01C24EBE] > >Folks, > I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the >possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics (here's the >link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): > > >"Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the three-day >event >in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered for >elimination." > > >I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another about >eliminating the walks. > >-ernie lee. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
> Folks, > I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the > possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics (here's the > link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): > > > "Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the three-day event > in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered for > elimination." > > > I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another about > eliminating the walks. Perhaps I'm wrong, but technically wouldn't the IAAF have to eliminate the walks, not the IOC? I mean, we all know that pressure could be brought to bear by the IOC and the number of athletes for T& reduced, but isn't it basically an IAAF decision? - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
Could be that the Chicago guys are putting in a high volume of miles so running any race right now would prove to be futile. You'll see the same with a lot of marathoners. Josh Cox and the Dr. Rosa's Kenyans don't race much beyond a couple marathons and halfmarathons a year. If these guys really want to run a fast Chicago what's the point in going to Van Damme knowing you're not going to be near PR shape because of miles and maybe lack of pure speed work needed to run a fast 10k. The 10k and marathon are both similar and different events. Alan >From: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans? >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:11:26 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [198.240.130.75] >Received: from [128.223.142.13] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBF36520C00C64004319F80DF8E0DFBF60; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:23:42 -0700 >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1])by >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SHBXMQ001301for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:11:33 -0700 >(PDT) >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by darkwing.uoregon.edu >(8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g7SHBXmO001297for t-and-f-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug >2002 10:11:33 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from hotmail.com (f270.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.145])by >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7SHBWMQ001159for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:11:32 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; >Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:11:27 -0700 >Received: from 198.240.130.75 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with >HTTP;Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:11:26 GMT >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:23:49 -0700 >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2002 17:11:27.0202 (UTC) >FILETIME=[F1C45C20:01C24EB5] >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk > >We had 6 guys run sub 28 as early as June 21st and none of these guys are >racing the one main 10k of the year... Van Damme. I mean, even if they >peaked for a May 3rd race (Meb, Browne, Wells, Hauser) or Nationals on June >21st (Abdi, Culpepper), there has been plenty of time to come back down and >build back up to even better condition for Van Damme. Pepper, Brown and >Hauser are all running fall marathons, so I guess one could say that they >at least have an "excuse" (though I don't see how a 10k in August will >effect a marathon in October) but what about Abdi, Meb and Wells? I really >believe that not racing the top guys in Europe on a regular basis is one of >the key reasons why we are getting our butts spanked come WCs and OGs. Its >so frustrating to see where the priorities of American runners lie... in Mt >Sac, Stanford and Nationals. As long as those meets remain the focus, we >will not see a marked improvement in distance medal haul come major >championships!!! Is there another reason these guys aren't racing? I >mean, do they train 10 months out of the year so that they can race at >Stanford 3 times a year over the span of a month and a half??? > >_ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
> From: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Ernest Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:00:51 -0700 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC > > Folks, > I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the > possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics (here's the > link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): > > > "Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the three-day event > in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered for > elimination." > > > I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another about > eliminating the walks.> Just a guess, but my suspicion is that the IAAF would take other measures before they'd cut the walks. e.g., note that for Athens the number of relay teams has been way whacked. That cut a lot of athletes (which is the IOC's main consideration, not events themselves) without sacrificing an event. A tightening of both A and B standards might be another way to go. ANYTHING---so long as they don't get to a 2-per-nation rule. gh
Re: t-and-f: concrete vs. asphalt
I know enought physics to be dangerous, so here goes. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Even with cushioned shoes, there is a force that is reflected back into > the foot. This force is dependent upon the coefficient of restitution > between the two materials. Could you please explain this idea more clearly? Suppose we take a temporal Fourier transform of the force applied to the bottom of the foot at landing, and inspect the power invested in each frequency. The most damaging frequencies ought to be those which correspond to the normal modes of the bones in the leg, which I'm guessing should be those for which the leg bones are a quarter wavelength. Determining the ratio of frequency to wavelength requires knowing the effective speed of sound: in air it's 330 m/s, in water 1480 m/s, and in bone up to 4200 m/s (the web is a fantastic thing!). I don't know which to use; taking air as a lower limit and bone as an upper limit, then for a 40 cm tibia, the damaging frequencies would then be those between 200 Hz and 2600 Hz--which is roughly the audio range. Now, high frequency audio oscillations are easily damped while low frequency audio oscillations can only be damped by sufficiently massive objects. A running shoe can't possibly be massive enough to damp a 200 Hz oscillation (can it?). So, I would conclude that asphalt is a better running surface than concrete if it turns out that asphalt is better at damping oscillations in the low audio range of perhaps 200 Hz (and if your body is so constructed as to be susceptible to damage by such frequencies--I'll bet some are, some aren't). The question now becomes, can one learn anything about the low frequency damping abilities of a running surface by, say, dropping a golf ball on it? I suspect the answer is yes, though I certainly agree with Christopher that a better test would be whacking the running surface with a sledge-hammer. A light golf ball falling on a surface generates much less low-frequency oscillations that a heavy sledge-hammer. Dropping a golf ball on a running shoe is irrelevant because we know a priori the ability of the shoe to damp low frequencies is much worse that its ability to damp high frequencies, because it is so light. For a running surface, there's at least a chance that the damping coefficient is independent of frequency. I await word from the list supervisor that political rants are to be preferred to faux physics lectures, Jim Reardon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Interesting Tidbit from the IOC
Folks, I just came across this bit on espn.com in an article about the possibility of dropping baseball and softball from the Olympics (here's the link: http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2002/0828/1423814.html): "Several disciplines -- including Greco-Roman wrestling, the three-day event in equestrian and the walk in track and field -- also could considered for elimination." I'm sure many on this list would feel strongly one way or another about eliminating the walks. -ernie lee.
Re: t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
Culpepper is debuting at Chicago. Hauser and Browne are debuting at Twin Cities in a month. Rumors have one of the other guys you mentioned debuting this fall as well. Don't know why Abdi isn't running. Never thought I'd write so much about debutantes. sideshow
Re: t-and-f: Associated Publishers Subscription Services
> From: "Wayne T. Armbrust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Organization: Computomarx > Reply-To: "Wayne T. Armbrust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:00:03 -0500 > To: T-AND-F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: t-and-f: Associated Publishers Subscription Services > > I just got a notice from an outfit called Associated Publishers > Subscription Services, 355 Industrial Circle, White City, OR 97503-1096 > offering to renew my subscription to T&FN for 2 years for $72.00. I > know gh has warned about groups like this in the past and not to send > money except directly to T&FN, but is this a new scam by a new group? > The address on the notice is identical to that on my latest issue of > T&FN.>> Sigh. Thanks for the heads-up Wayne. Unclear if this the same sumbitches as PSE, who have been illegally soliciting customers for several months now. But they were in Oregon (at least in their original incarnation) and this is their usual MO, so it has the unfortunate ring of familiarity. One way you can tell if you're being scammed is if anybody offers you a MULTI-YEAR subscription at a rate less than what the magazine quotes. *There is no such thing.* That doesn't mean you can't get scammed in other ways, but that's the one sure sign I can offer you for your protection. gh ps--meanwhile, we continue to work w/ the Oregon attorney general to get a cease-and-desist order in place pps--to give you an idea of how pervasive these people are, go to goggle.com and enter "Publishers Services Exchange" in the advanced search area and see how many other magazine (including Running Times) have been attacked by these slimy bastards.
t-and-f: Van Damme... Americans?
We had 6 guys run sub 28 as early as June 21st and none of these guys are racing the one main 10k of the year... Van Damme. I mean, even if they peaked for a May 3rd race (Meb, Browne, Wells, Hauser) or Nationals on June 21st (Abdi, Culpepper), there has been plenty of time to come back down and build back up to even better condition for Van Damme. Pepper, Brown and Hauser are all running fall marathons, so I guess one could say that they at least have an "excuse" (though I don't see how a 10k in August will effect a marathon in October) but what about Abdi, Meb and Wells? I really believe that not racing the top guys in Europe on a regular basis is one of the key reasons why we are getting our butts spanked come WCs and OGs. Its so frustrating to see where the priorities of American runners lie... in Mt Sac, Stanford and Nationals. As long as those meets remain the focus, we will not see a marked improvement in distance medal haul come major championships!!! Is there another reason these guys aren't racing? I mean, do they train 10 months out of the year so that they can race at Stanford 3 times a year over the span of a month and a half??? _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
t-and-f: RE: t-and-f: results - Liège International Meeting
Some crashing and buring in 'record' attempts at 600 meters. Mutola 53.92 at 400m, then 28.95 for last 200m. Mutua 48.34 at 400m, then 25.15. Still a better finish than Johnny Gray (1:12.81), 47.1/25.7. -Original Message- From: Kebba Tolbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: results - Liège International Meeting from Iaaf.org Results: Men 100 METRES: Race 1 (called ?B?)(-0.4): 1. Moke (CGO) 10.60; 2. Ungerer (NED) 10.66 . . . Race 2 (called ?A?)(-0.2): 1. B Williams (USA) 10.17; 2. Crawford (USA) 10.20; 3. Miller (USA) 10.25; 4. Conwright (USA) 10.37; 5. Lewis (USA) 10.38; 6. Sekanyambo (BEL) 10.55; 7. Gilpin (JAM) 10.55; 8. Delhaye (BEL) 10.67. 300 METRES: 1. Udo-Obong (NGR) 32.64; 2. Taylor (USA) 32.67; 3. Van Branteghem (BEL) 32.68; 4. Settle (USA) 33.02; 5. Thomas (USA) 33.28; 6. Hammed (QAT) 33.90. Disqualified: Campbell (JAM) [32.84]. Did not finish: Al Safi (QAT). 600 METRES: 1. Mutua (KEN) 1:13.49 (second-best performance all-time); 2. Jansen (BEL) 1:15.35; 3. J Kimutai (KEN) 1:15.77; 4. Kahan (BEL) 1:17.51; 5. Omey (BEL) 1:17.71; 6. Kibet Mutai (KEN) 1:18.79; 7. Bakrim (BEL) 1:19.13. Pace: van Rhee (NED). 800 METRES: 1. VanDiest (BEL) 1:47.78; 2. VanChaze (BEL) 1:48.29; 3. Pals (NED) 1:51.32 . Mile: 1. R Rono (KEN) 3:56.58; 2. Heskho (UKR) 3:56.74; 3. Songok (KEN) 3:57.16; 4. Berryhill (USA) 3:57.77; 5. Maataoui (MAR) 3:58.10; 6. A Chékhémani (FRA) 3:59.01; 7. Es-Saadi (BEL) 4:00.53; 8. H Rotich (KEN) 4:01.00; 9. K Misoi (KEN) 4:02.52; 10. Compernolle (BEL) 4:06.21; 11. Ndayikeza (BDI) 4:11.26; 12. Bekkali (BEL) 4:17.43. Pace: Beumer (NED). Did not finish: Rizki (BEL). 5000 METRES: 1. Kwalia (KEN) 13:14.34; 2. Mitei (KEN) 13:21.40; 3. Joseph Kosgei (KEN) 13:23.38; 4. A Limo (KEN) 13:48.18; 5. Hamid Abdul (QAT) 13:50.58; 6. Aman Majid (QAT) 13:51.38 . . . Pace: Geemi (KEN). 110 HURDLES (0.2): 1. Jackson (GBR) 13.36; 2. Ross (USA) 13.44; 3. Richardson (USA) 13.56; 4. Nsenga (BEL) 13.91; . . . 8. Lavanne (FRA) 14.53. POLE VAULT: 1. Chistiakov (AUS) 5.80 [5.50/2 ? 5.65/2 ? 5.75/2 ? 5.80/3 ? 5.85/p - retired]; 2. Lobinger (GER) 5.75 [5.50/2 ? 5.65/2 ? 5.75/2 ? 5.80/p ? 5.85/xxx]; 3. Johnson (USA) 5.65; 4. Khanafin (RUS) 5.50; 5. Otto (GER) 5.50; 6. Duval (BEL) and Mack (USA) 5.50; 8. Rans (BEL) and Ptá?ek (CZE) 5.35; 10. Osei Tutu (GER) 5.20; 11. Ulrich (GER) 5.20; 12. Looye (NED) 5.20; 13. Petrov (RUS) 5.05; 14. Simonet (BEL) 5.05. No height: Janá?ek (CZE) at 5.35. TRIPLE JUMP: 1. Davis (USA) 16.68 (-0.6); 2. D Mambo (BEL) 16.50 (-0.1); 3. Glavatskiy (BLR) 16.37 (-0.2); 4. Velter (BEL) 16.15 (0.0) . . . Women 100 METRES (0.0): 1. Ojokolo (NGR) 11.25; 2. Onyali (NGR) 11.49; 3. Nku (NGR) 11.54; 4. Mayr (AUT) 11.58; 5. Callaerts (BEL) 11.63; 6. Hewitt (AUS) 11.71; 7. DeCaluwe (BEL) 11.94; 8. Ouedrago (BEL) 12.19. 200 METRES (-0.1): 1. Mayr (AUT) 23.20; 2. Nadjina (CHA) 23.25; 3. Onyali (NGR) 23.35; 4. Hewitt (AUS) 23.44; 5. Callaerts (BEL) 24.17 . . . 600 METRES: 1. Mutola (MOZ) 1:22.87 (second-best performance all-time); 2. Stals (BEL) 1:25.91; 3. Dziadkova (RUS) 1:26.86; 4. Vriesde (SUR) 1:27.03; 5. Geens (BEL) 1:30.10; 6. Fleschner (USA) 1:33.41. Pace: Mercken (BEL). MILE: 1. Hendricken (IRL) 4:25.44; 2. Komyagina (RUS) 4:26.09; 3. Lishchinska (UKR) 4:28.31; 4. Liss (USA) 4:32.51; 5. DeJaeghere (BEL) 4:33.76; 6. S Ouaziz (MAR) 4:35.56; 7. Baouf (BEL) 4:36.52; 8. Crain (USA) 4:38.25; 9. Sluysmans (BEL) 4:45.19; 10. Svanhalová (CZE) 4:45.93; 11. Bossuyt (BEL) 4:54.68. Pace: Wisse (NED). 100 HURDLES (-0.1): 1. Adams (USA) 12.92; 2. Golding-Clarke (JAM) 12.98; 3. Dixon (JAM) 13.07; 4. Faustin (HAI) 13.28; 5. Vis (NED) 13.50 . . . Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps & Multis Coach Syracuse University Track & Field _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
t-and-f: let me repost this
since it came in under our old friend the august 5 tag, suspect most people just deleted it. gh > From: "USATF Communications" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "USATF Communications" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:57:00 -0500 > To: "Lee Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "USATF Communications" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Keith Lively" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002 > > Hi Lee. I appreciate the humor, and I can assure you that Joe's computer is > off. Again, this particular edition of News & notes is *not* going to our > email distribution list - this problem is only happening on the tnf list. We > are trying to determine if this is a problem on our end or if it is > happening on the TnF list's end. Thanks for your pateience.
RE: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002
Hi Lee. I appreciate the humor, and I can assure you that Joe's computer is off. Again, this particular edition of News & notes is *not* going to our email distribution list - this problem is only happening on the tnf list. We are trying to determine if this is a problem on our end or if it is happening on the TnF list's end. Thanks for your pateience. -Original Message- From: Lee Nichols [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:38 AM To: USATF Communications Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002 Okay, if Joe is gone, could someone turn off his computer? >Contact: Joe Hughes > Communications Intern > USA Track & Field > (317) 261-0478 x357 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.usatf.org > >USATF News & Notes >Volume 3, Number 76August 5, 2002 > >USA 50 km trail championships > >A national-class field is anticipated at the USATF 50 km National Trail >Championship for both Open and Masters runners on August 24 in Sausilito, >Calif. > >More than 100 competitors already have registered for the championship, >which will be run as part of the Golden Gate Headlands 50k Endurance Run on >the coastal trails and fire roads north of San Francisco. In an attempt to >appeal to a variety of runners, short portions of the course include beach >running, a ladder, downed trees, technical sections with difficult footing >and pavement, but mainly single track and fire roads with seven significant >climbs and descents. > >Registration is open until race day. Only USATF members will be eligible for >USATF Championship awards. USATF membership and event information are >available online at www.usatf.org. > >Greene takes on coaching > >World 100m record-holder and reigning Olympic and World champion Maurice >Greene has said he will work with the sprinters on the Taft High School >track & field team in Woodland Hills, Calif., as a volunteer assistant. > >Greene will volunteer time when his schedule allows, assisting Taft High >head coach and 1992 Olympic 400m and 4x400m gold medalist Quincy Watts. >Watts is an alumnus of Taft High and was hired earlier as the head coach. > >Greene is currently training seriously at home in Los Angeles, and will >return to the track for the second part of the IAAFs European season. His >next competition will be on August 16 at the Weltklasse in Zurich, >Switzerland, which is the next Golden League meet. > ># # # -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
EXACTLY
The smart thing to do would be to anticipate the fact
that the vast majority of people making turns in the
right turn on red zones do NOT do anything more than
make a perfunctory glance to their right way before
they reach the intersection. Is is the best method?
Nope. But you could avoid a big hassle, improve
general motor vehicle vs. runner relations, and avoid
making an ass of yourself if you choose the high road.
It isn't worth the possibility that somebody either
pulls out a gun or converts their vehicle into a
weapon so that a bunch of scrawny (and I used to be
somewhat like that and now coach them) distance
runners can prove their "manhood" in order to later
impress their peers with their tales of "courage."
This fact may stagger the imagination, but the roads
were built for VEHICLES-we as runners need to be
cordial, respectful, and defensive GUESTS. You just
can't win a fight against a multi ton vehicle. My
athletes have always had the highest (or close it)
GPA's on campus, so I tell them to act like it when
out on the roads. It amazes me when stupidity is
glorified. Sorry to be on the soap box, but I cringed
when I watched whichever Prefontaine movie showed
Steve running over a car in Eugene (ok, I'll admit
that both movies were pretty bad) because you just
know that some kids are going to try it. But, just
think about the first time that it happens and
somebody stomps the pedal while they're on the car or
whips out that gun or runs them down afterward. That
wouldn't be tragic, it would be pathetic.
Tirade over:
For a great FICTIONAL account of a runner's payback,
check out Slinger Sanchez's 10 mile or so run to
revenge sometime in Bruce Glikin's book. (That was an
unsolicited plug btw)..
--- malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know why you guys are so proud of your
> vandalism. Street punks
> always have a "reason" why they do what they do.
> It's still wrong.
>
> malmo
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
> Of James R. Kaminsky
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:50 PM
> To: Randy Treadway; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car
> tromping: "Once a Runner"
>
>
> I have a similar story from the early 60s at Ohio
> Wesleyan. We were
> coming in from an easy road run down a slight grade
> into town running on
> the road near the curb. We were cruising at a
> really good clip when I
> noticed a Cadillac at a side street about to turn
> right (we were coming
> from his right). His eyes were looking left since
> he knew there was no
> traffic coming in his lane from the right. Just as
> we got to him he
> decided to make his turn and that's when the fun
> began. I should have
> been a stunt man, because I hit the top of his long
> Cadillac hood on my
> butt, slammed by palms as hard as I could on the
> hood, leaving some neat
> impressions, and sliding off the other side
> continued on never missing a
> stride. He slammed on his breaks, cleaned the shit
> out of his pants and
> didn't move for the longest time. Mean while we
> just continued on like
> nothing was wrong. What a great feeling. Moral of
> story - look both
> ways before you pull out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Randy Treadway
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:02 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car
> tromping: "Once a Runner"
>
> Well I was in the group that it happened to,
> and "did it", in 1976 in Troy, Alabama.
> I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk
> people swerving at runners, runners have
> picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it
> (running over a car or pickup trick) whenever
> they have the opportunity, as justifiable.
> After so many years, I don't remember who in
> the group I was running with came up with the idea
> and said "hey, there's the guy- let's run right
> over his truck". In my memory, it was pretty
> much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him
> sitting at the stop light.
> So it's probable actually happened several (or
> many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter
> were the first.
> Give them credit among distance runner lore for
> paving new ground, like
> Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name
> like the Fosbury Flop-
> "we caught the guy at the next intersection and
> Batchelored him". You'll
> have to explain to young runners what "getting
> Batchelored" means.
>
> RT
>
> RT
>
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > John Parker told the story of Shorter and
> > Bacheler in both non-fiction
> > and fiction ("Once a Runner") versions, as I
> > recall. No spikes though, just
> > running shoes - and red necks. That really
> > happened, to the best of my
> > recollection, and all the other versions have
> > followed from it. Geoff
> >
> >
> > >From: ghill
> > >Reply-To: ghil
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
I suppose there is some sort of point you are trying to articulate? That cyclists are maniacs on the road, reckless reprobates oblivious to their surroundings? Everyone knows that! >I wonder if this "punk" is proud of his "vandalism". >Regards, >Martin > >"Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right >collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just >as the rider was passing." > >http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymoresports/Layout/Article_Type1&call_page=WM_Home&call_pageid=979619472127&call_pagepath=Home/Home&c=Article&cid=1030446570382 > >malmo wrote: > >> I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks >> always have a "reason" why they do what they do. It's still wrong. >> >> malmo >> > > >
Re: t-and-f: USATF News & Notes: August 5, 2002
Okay, if Joe is gone, could someone turn off his computer? >Contact: Joe Hughes > Communications Intern > USA Track & Field > (317) 261-0478 x357 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.usatf.org > >USATF News & Notes >Volume 3, Number 76August 5, 2002 > >USA 50 km trail championships > >A national-class field is anticipated at the USATF 50 km National Trail >Championship for both Open and Masters runners on August 24 in Sausilito, >Calif. > >More than 100 competitors already have registered for the championship, >which will be run as part of the Golden Gate Headlands 50k Endurance Run on >the coastal trails and fire roads north of San Francisco. In an attempt to >appeal to a variety of runners, short portions of the course include beach >running, a ladder, downed trees, technical sections with difficult footing >and pavement, but mainly single track and fire roads with seven significant >climbs and descents. > >Registration is open until race day. Only USATF members will be eligible for >USATF Championship awards. USATF membership and event information are >available online at www.usatf.org. > >Greene takes on coaching > >World 100m record-holder and reigning Olympic and World champion Maurice >Greene has said he will work with the sprinters on the Taft High School >track & field team in Woodland Hills, Calif., as a volunteer assistant. > >Greene will volunteer time when his schedule allows, assisting Taft High >head coach and 1992 Olympic 400m and 4x400m gold medalist Quincy Watts. >Watts is an alumnus of Taft High and was hired earlier as the head coach. > >Greene is currently training seriously at home in Los Angeles, and will >return to the track for the second part of the IAAFs European season. His >next competition will be on August 16 at the Weltklasse in Zurich, >Switzerland, which is the next Golden League meet. > ># # # -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: results - Liège International Meeting
from Iaaf.org Results: Men 100 METRES: Race 1 (called ?B?)(-0.4): 1. Moke (CGO) 10.60; 2. Ungerer (NED) 10.66 . . . Race 2 (called ?A?)(-0.2): 1. B Williams (USA) 10.17; 2. Crawford (USA) 10.20; 3. Miller (USA) 10.25; 4. Conwright (USA) 10.37; 5. Lewis (USA) 10.38; 6. Sekanyambo (BEL) 10.55; 7. Gilpin (JAM) 10.55; 8. Delhaye (BEL) 10.67. 300 METRES: 1. Udo-Obong (NGR) 32.64; 2. Taylor (USA) 32.67; 3. Van Branteghem (BEL) 32.68; 4. Settle (USA) 33.02; 5. Thomas (USA) 33.28; 6. Hammed (QAT) 33.90. Disqualified: Campbell (JAM) [32.84]. Did not finish: Al Safi (QAT). 600 METRES: 1. Mutua (KEN) 1:13.49 (second-best performance all-time); 2. Jansen (BEL) 1:15.35; 3. J Kimutai (KEN) 1:15.77; 4. Kahan (BEL) 1:17.51; 5. Omey (BEL) 1:17.71; 6. Kibet Mutai (KEN) 1:18.79; 7. Bakrim (BEL) 1:19.13. Pace: van Rhee (NED). 800 METRES: 1. VanDiest (BEL) 1:47.78; 2. VanChaze (BEL) 1:48.29; 3. Pals (NED) 1:51.32 . Mile: 1. R Rono (KEN) 3:56.58; 2. Heskho (UKR) 3:56.74; 3. Songok (KEN) 3:57.16; 4. Berryhill (USA) 3:57.77; 5. Maataoui (MAR) 3:58.10; 6. A Chékhémani (FRA) 3:59.01; 7. Es-Saadi (BEL) 4:00.53; 8. H Rotich (KEN) 4:01.00; 9. K Misoi (KEN) 4:02.52; 10. Compernolle (BEL) 4:06.21; 11. Ndayikeza (BDI) 4:11.26; 12. Bekkali (BEL) 4:17.43. Pace: Beumer (NED). Did not finish: Rizki (BEL). 5000 METRES: 1. Kwalia (KEN) 13:14.34; 2. Mitei (KEN) 13:21.40; 3. Joseph Kosgei (KEN) 13:23.38; 4. A Limo (KEN) 13:48.18; 5. Hamid Abdul (QAT) 13:50.58; 6. Aman Majid (QAT) 13:51.38 . . . Pace: Geemi (KEN). 110 HURDLES (0.2): 1. Jackson (GBR) 13.36; 2. Ross (USA) 13.44; 3. Richardson (USA) 13.56; 4. Nsenga (BEL) 13.91; . . . 8. Lavanne (FRA) 14.53. POLE VAULT: 1. Chistiakov (AUS) 5.80 [5.50/2 ? 5.65/2 ? 5.75/2 ? 5.80/3 ? 5.85/p - retired]; 2. Lobinger (GER) 5.75 [5.50/2 ? 5.65/2 ? 5.75/2 ? 5.80/p ? 5.85/xxx]; 3. Johnson (USA) 5.65; 4. Khanafin (RUS) 5.50; 5. Otto (GER) 5.50; 6. Duval (BEL) and Mack (USA) 5.50; 8. Rans (BEL) and Ptá?ek (CZE) 5.35; 10. Osei Tutu (GER) 5.20; 11. Ulrich (GER) 5.20; 12. Looye (NED) 5.20; 13. Petrov (RUS) 5.05; 14. Simonet (BEL) 5.05. No height: Janá?ek (CZE) at 5.35. TRIPLE JUMP: 1. Davis (USA) 16.68 (-0.6); 2. D Mambo (BEL) 16.50 (-0.1); 3. Glavatskiy (BLR) 16.37 (-0.2); 4. Velter (BEL) 16.15 (0.0) . . . Women 100 METRES (0.0): 1. Ojokolo (NGR) 11.25; 2. Onyali (NGR) 11.49; 3. Nku (NGR) 11.54; 4. Mayr (AUT) 11.58; 5. Callaerts (BEL) 11.63; 6. Hewitt (AUS) 11.71; 7. DeCaluwe (BEL) 11.94; 8. Ouedrago (BEL) 12.19. 200 METRES (-0.1): 1. Mayr (AUT) 23.20; 2. Nadjina (CHA) 23.25; 3. Onyali (NGR) 23.35; 4. Hewitt (AUS) 23.44; 5. Callaerts (BEL) 24.17 . . . 600 METRES: 1. Mutola (MOZ) 1:22.87 (second-best performance all-time); 2. Stals (BEL) 1:25.91; 3. Dziadkova (RUS) 1:26.86; 4. Vriesde (SUR) 1:27.03; 5. Geens (BEL) 1:30.10; 6. Fleschner (USA) 1:33.41. Pace: Mercken (BEL). MILE: 1. Hendricken (IRL) 4:25.44; 2. Komyagina (RUS) 4:26.09; 3. Lishchinska (UKR) 4:28.31; 4. Liss (USA) 4:32.51; 5. DeJaeghere (BEL) 4:33.76; 6. S Ouaziz (MAR) 4:35.56; 7. Baouf (BEL) 4:36.52; 8. Crain (USA) 4:38.25; 9. Sluysmans (BEL) 4:45.19; 10. Svanhalová (CZE) 4:45.93; 11. Bossuyt (BEL) 4:54.68. Pace: Wisse (NED). 100 HURDLES (-0.1): 1. Adams (USA) 12.92; 2. Golding-Clarke (JAM) 12.98; 3. Dixon (JAM) 13.07; 4. Faustin (HAI) 13.28; 5. Vis (NED) 13.50 . . . Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps & Multis Coach Syracuse University Track & Field _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong?
Folks, To add my $.02 to the fray, I always think back to what Vigil told me when I asked him this question. He said it takes someone roughly 10 years of consistent work to get to the top of their game. African's start earlier than we do. If they start training at 12, then their best years are around 21-23. Most Americans start when they are freshman or sophs in HS, which is 14-16. That get's us good when we're 24-26. In my case and most of the guys I know, we ran most of our PR's when we were between 25 and 27. Not science by any means, but seems like a decent explanation to me. Joe Michael Contopoulos wrote: > > Exactly. So lets assume for a 1500 guy 24 is the age at which the body is > most able to run its fastest (given the proper number of years training, > intensity, etc). How many 24 year olds are prepared to do so? Very few if > you ask me. Why? Because after college is when the REAL training starts. > That's one year of "real" training to maximize the body's full potential. > Not nearly long enough. The answer? Harder training at earlier ages. A > new attitude towards "burning out." > > >From: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong? > >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) > > > >I am (or was) a professional statistician. I did a somewhat > >unscientific study where I took top track athletes over a period of > >time looking at their best time and how old they were when they ran > >it. For most middle distances; 24 was it. For longer distances, > >10K or marathon - it was around 27. > > > >= > >Dave Cameron > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > >http://finance.yahoo.com > > _ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
> "Tyler Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right > collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just > as the rider was passing." > > http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymorespo rts/Layout/Article_Type1&call_page=WM_Home&call_pageid=979619472127&call_pag epath=Home/Home&c=Article&cid=1030446570382 My favorite line from the article is the following typo: ``The doctors do not think that he will be permanently scared" It's interesting that Tyler Hamilton probably has gotten in more crashes than any other professional cyclist in the last 2-3 years. He was 2nd in the Giro D'Italia this year despite breaking a few bones (in the shoulder area I think) during one of the first few stages. He crashed 3 times during the Giro and almost went down a 4th time during an individual time trial on a dry, smooth road (to be fair it was around a turn). The poor guy might consider applying his high VO2 max to running, racewalking, or X/C skiing - it's safer! - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong?
"How many 24 year olds are prepared to do so? Very few if you ask me. Why? Because after college is when the REAL training starts. That's one year of "real" training to maximize the body's full potential. Not nearly long enough." Maybe Alan Webb has taken the right path for the 24 year old peak? Steve Podgajny New Balance Maine Distance Festival -- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:44:33 -0400 From: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong? Exactly. So lets assume for a 1500 guy 24 is the age at which the body is most able to run its fastest (given the proper number of years training, intensity, etc). How many 24 year olds are prepared to do so? Very few if you ask me. Why? Because after college is when the REAL training starts. That's one year of "real" training to maximize the body's full potential. Not nearly long enough. The answer? Harder training at earlier ages. A new attitude towards "burning out." >From: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong? >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) > >I am (or was) a professional statistician. I did a somewhat >unscientific study where I took top track athletes over a period of >time looking at their best time and how old they were when they ran >it. For most middle distances; 24 was it. For longer distances, >10K or marathon - it was around 27. > >= >Dave Cameron >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
I wonder if this "punk" is proud of his "vandalism". Regards, Martin "Hamilton, preparing for the GP Eddy Merckx, suffered a broken right collarbone and facial injuries Sunday when a car driver opened his door just as the rider was passing." http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymoresports/Layout/Article_Type1&call_page=WM_Home&call_pageid=979619472127&call_pagepath=Home/Home&c=Article&cid=1030446570382 malmo wrote: > I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks > always have a "reason" why they do what they do. It's still wrong. > > malmo >
Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong?
Exactly. So lets assume for a 1500 guy 24 is the age at which the body is most able to run its fastest (given the proper number of years training, intensity, etc). How many 24 year olds are prepared to do so? Very few if you ask me. Why? Because after college is when the REAL training starts. That's one year of "real" training to maximize the body's full potential. Not nearly long enough. The answer? Harder training at earlier ages. A new attitude towards "burning out." >From: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Dave Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong? >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) > >I am (or was) a professional statistician. I did a somewhat >unscientific study where I took top track athletes over a period of >time looking at their best time and how old they were when they ran >it. For most middle distances; 24 was it. For longer distances, >10K or marathon - it was around 27. > >= >Dave Cameron >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >http://finance.yahoo.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Peak age... Americans have it wrong?
I am (or was) a professional statistician. I did a somewhat unscientific study where I took top track athletes over a period of time looking at their best time and how old they were when they ran it. For most middle distances; 24 was it. For longer distances, 10K or marathon - it was around 27. = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Concrete VS Asphalt (was: Why on the street?)
There you have it, the analysis from John MacAdam. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christopher Goss Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 1:28 AM To: Hanks, Jeffrey S; 'picqc'; Mike Prizy Cc: Kurt Bray; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Concrete VS Asphalt (was: Why on the street?) Ouch! Lots of bad science here, Jeff. Let's take today's issues one by one... 1) Hardness The proper comparison of running surfaces is indeed hardness and the golf ball test WILL provide an accurate relative comparison between surfaces of two hardnesses. When you hear engineers or scientists talking about the hardness of a material, they are usually speaking of one of several standardized measurements performed on the material. The most common measurements are Brinell, Rockwell, Vickers, and Shore. The selected measurement technique depends upon the material, as each method is better than the others over different ranges of hardness. The equipment used for these measurements is expensive and not very portable. A portable tool used to estimate material hardness is interestingly a ball dropped within a tube. The height of the bounce (measured by graduated marks on the side of the tube) is calibrated to the estimate of the material hardness. Pretend you are a billiards ball. Would you rather hit another ball (which is hard) or the table's rail (which is not nearly as hard)? The same thing applies to your feet. Lots more about hardness may be found at http://www.calce.umd.edu/general/Facilities/Hardness_ad_.htm . 2) Concrete versus asphalt Concrete has a narrow range of hardness whether it is old or new, cold or hot. Asphalt, however, has a much wider range of hardness that is indeed affected by the age, temperature, manufactured density, and composition of the material. I suspect this range is what has generated some of the differences in opinion regarding the hardness comparisons between concrete and asphalt. Fresh asphalt is not nearly as hard as concrete and is therefore a better running surface than concrete. This is because fresh asphalt does indeed have internal air pockets, as well as soft tar that can flex under load. (It has nothing to do with the microscopic interaction between the surface of the asphalt and the bottom of one's shoes. There is no "nestling" between shoes and the running surface.) Over time, the asphalt will compact, increasing the hardness as the tiny air pockets disappear and the tar simply hardens. The amount of gravel used in different asphalt mixtures will also affect the hardness. So, running on old asphalt with a high gravel concentration on a cold day may feel closer to concrete. Still not sure about asphalt and concrete? Go give both of them a whack with a large hammer or sledge. You'll feel the difference. 3) Temperature Remember science class when you turned water into ice by lowering the temperature? Same thing happens to asphalt and especially dirt -- anything with some liquid content that can experience a phase change through a lowering of the material temperature. Sure, asphalt can approach the hardness of concrete at very cold temperatures, but due to its relatively high moisture content, dirt can also become very hard. Cross country teams in International Falls can vouch for this one. So, Jeff is correct that the surfaces will be closer in hardness as the temperature decreases. 4) Shoes and hardness Someone mentioned earlier that the rubber in running shoes eliminated the issue of the hardness of the running surface. A cushioned running shoe will distribute the energy transmitted to the running surface over a longer period of time. This reduces the maximum force imparted to the surface. It's a bit like bending your knees to soften the impact when you jump off of tall box (like in plyometrics). Even with cushioned shoes, there is a force that is reflected back into the foot. This force is dependent upon the coefficient of restitution between the two materials. For our case, we can consider this relatively equivalent to the hardness. Shoes will soften the impact, but a runner wearing the same pair of shoes will feel a greater impact as he moves from a softer surface to a harder one. 5) Falling down In most cases, the severity of falling or stumbling injuries is not an issue of hardness, but roughness. Concrete is generally rougher than asphalt -- at least the sidewalk variety. Dragging skin across a rougher surface naturally produces greater abrasions. Of course if an elbow, knee, or head contacts either surface at an angle close to perpendicular, hardness is once again the issue regarding severity (see items 1 & 2). So, what did we learn today -- other than the fact that all of my classes will run late if I someday get a chance to quit the corporate engineering racket and pursue a career as a science teacher? We learned that running on asphalt is softer than running on concrete, but tha
RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
I don't know why you guys are so proud of your vandalism. Street punks
always have a "reason" why they do what they do. It's still wrong.
malmo
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James R. Kaminsky
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:50 PM
To: Randy Treadway; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
I have a similar story from the early 60s at Ohio Wesleyan. We were
coming in from an easy road run down a slight grade into town running on
the road near the curb. We were cruising at a really good clip when I
noticed a Cadillac at a side street about to turn right (we were coming
from his right). His eyes were looking left since he knew there was no
traffic coming in his lane from the right. Just as we got to him he
decided to make his turn and that's when the fun began. I should have
been a stunt man, because I hit the top of his long Cadillac hood on my
butt, slammed by palms as hard as I could on the hood, leaving some neat
impressions, and sliding off the other side continued on never missing a
stride. He slammed on his breaks, cleaned the shit out of his pants and
didn't move for the longest time. Mean while we just continued on like
nothing was wrong. What a great feeling. Moral of story - look both
ways before you pull out.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Randy Treadway
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"
Well I was in the group that it happened to,
and "did it", in 1976 in Troy, Alabama.
I suspect that, given enough stories of drunk
people swerving at runners, runners have
picked up on the 'revenge' angle, and done it
(running over a car or pickup trick) whenever
they have the opportunity, as justifiable.
After so many years, I don't remember who in
the group I was running with came up with the idea
and said "hey, there's the guy- let's run right
over his truck". In my memory, it was pretty
much a spontaneous reaction when we saw him
sitting at the stop light.
So it's probable actually happened several (or
many) times. Who knows- maybe Batchelor and Shorter were the first.
Give them credit among distance runner lore for paving new ground, like
Dick Fosbury. As a matter of fact, give it a name like the Fosbury Flop-
"we caught the guy at the next intersection and Batchelored him". You'll
have to explain to young runners what "getting Batchelored" means.
RT
RT
On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:38:22 -0400 Geoff Pietsch
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> John Parker told the story of Shorter and
> Bacheler in both non-fiction
> and fiction ("Once a Runner") versions, as I
> recall. No spikes though, just
> running shoes - and red necks. That really
> happened, to the best of my
> recollection, and all the other versions have
> followed from it. Geoff
>
>
> >From: ghill
> >Reply-To: ghill
> >To: track list
> >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
> >Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:01:46 -0700
> >
> >there's also a story, probably apocryphal, of
> Shorter and Bacheler running
> >in spikes on a golf course and some guy pulled
> a car in front of them (not
> >sure how the car was on the course, hence the
> apoc. nature), and supposedly
> >they ran right over the hood and left a score
> of spike holes.
> >
> > > From: "nad wilson"
> > > Reply-To: "nad wilson"
> > > Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:16:59 +
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why on the street?
> > >
> > > sounds like something slinger sanchez did.
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> and a few miles later on the
> > >> outskirts of town, we came up to an
> intersection where the
> > >> same guy was waiting for the light to
> change, and our entire
> > >> group ran right up over the top of his
> pickup, the last guy
> > >> stomping extra hard on his hood.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> _
> > > Join the world's largest e-mail service
> with MSN Hotmail.
> > > http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _
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