Re: t-and-f: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials
Hey Rob, I was happy just to see the ol' list getting some use. It will be interesting to see if they stand or sit in Athens. JL Rob Veer wrote: lady's... lady's... this used to be a TF-list... and i used to find useful information here is this all the USA tf has to offer, nowadays? (hopefully not) Rob Veer The Netherlands - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials I knew that -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 3:38 PM To: malmo; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials Typical ugly American, attempting to impose your ill-will on others and spoil the party. Life is not a dress rehearsal, Walt, be in it! Malmo, Once again you have misread someone else's words .
Re: t-and-f: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials
Ray and all, Your experience was not universal. We had 14 tickets at the start of the 1500, 10 rows up. I had my 76 year old mother in a wheelchair, her husband with a heart transplant, my 20 mo. old granddaughter at nap time,my wife with Lupus, and the rest of the crew. Everyone at the meet was understanding. Two meet volunteers watched the wheelchair, they let me stand at the rail to take pictures during the races,and when we couldn't help ourselves and stood up nobody said a word. I think that the heat may have affected the mood of everyone, including the security. I can understand that your experience did not make the Trials as enjoyable as it could have been, and you have the right to complain. Take care, JL Raymond Cook wrote: Please let me clarify. My original post has nothing to do with common courtesy at track meets like standing at inappropriate times. The issue is that people who wanted to stand and cheer during an exciting race or whenever they wanted to show appreciation to an athlete were told by security to sit or be ejected. This is not a policy at ANY sporting event I've attended other than the US Olympic Trials and it is completely ridiculous. -Ray -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marko Velikonja Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 1:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials I'll make the same point I did when this debate raged after the 2000 Trials (note that I didn't attend either one): Down in Front is not a term unique to track and field spectators. I don't attend many baseball, basketball or football games, so I can't say for sure, but I'm sure spectators there would be annoyed by people who stand the entire game. I do recall a Women's World Cup match in 1999 where an obnoxious young man was standing in the front row, and it didn't go over very well with the spectators behind him. This seems like a matter of simple courtesy; if you're sitting toward the front, you should realize you're blocking the view of those behind you and refrain from standing unless you see the people behind you doing so. If you know you want to stand and cheer the whole time, get a seat in the back row. Granted, at most track meets this really isn't such a problem. Perhaps its unfortunate this debate turns up only every four years. Marko Velikonja __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
t-and-f: Track and Field News Tour tickets
Everyone, With regrets, I have three Track and Field News Tour tickets for sale. I am willing to let them go for less than what we paid for them. Please contact me by e mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, John Lunn
t-and-f: Olympic Trial tickets
After some inquiries, I need to clarify that I have 14 tickets for each of the sessions. Thanks, John Lunn ---BeginMessage--- I have 14 tickets for sale for the first 4 days of Trials. They are in section 108 (on top of the start of the 1500m) Rows 9 10. Great shot of the finish line. Will sell at face value, $20.00/seat/session. John Lunn ---End Message---
t-and-f: Olympic Trial tickets
I have 14 tickets for sale for the first 4 days of Trials. They are in section 108 (on top of the start of the 1500m) Rows 9 10. Great shot of the finish line. Will sell at face value, $20.00/seat/session. John Lunn
Re: t-and-f: Bannister ruining the sport
Very nice! malmo wrote: Randy, the problem with your desires to have the runners acquiece to your vicarious desires is that those head-to-head match races are exactly what runners LOVE Have you ever been in a pack with 150 to go, everyone digging hard, and you reach for that extra gear and find it, and blow by the field like you are walking on air? I have. Believe me, once you've felt THAT thrill, you want to experience it again and again! Every 1500 meter runner has had that thrill, and no matter how badly you want time trials, they will not comply. Accept it, and learn to enjoy the terror that is racing. malmo From: Randy Treadway [EMAIL PROTECTED] What I hate most is some of the best athletes in the world going head to head at pedestrian race and then seeing who has the most blazing speed in the last 10% of the race. I HATE THAT!!! It reminds of those velodrome bicyclers that see how slow they can go without the bike falling over, so they can just watch other- like playing 'chicken' or 'russian roulette'.
t-and-f: Sunday tickets to worlds
Listers We are fortunate to have 2 tickets to the World Indoor Meet( reportedly sold out for a year) and will not be able to attend the Sunday session. Contact me off list if you are interested in purchasing both tickets to Sunday only at list price. John Lunn
t-and-f: Simplot
Thanks to the Simplot Corporation for sponsoring this fantastic track meet. I've been to thousands of track meets and have never been to a better meet than the one put on by Simplot. I would encourage every high school athlete to compete there, every track fan to enjoy, and every meet director to take notes. John Lunn
Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
Track and Field has not hit the pages of the Denver newspapers since forever. Yesterday Tim and Marion made a big splash in the Rocky Mountain News.Those who think that bad news is better than no news should be happy. JL malmo wrote: Problem is Garry-Two-Rs, is that you are not the editor of Welfare Corporate Fraud News and don't profess to be the Bible of our educationall system and the environment. ANYONE who thinks that drugs in our sport is not destroying it is either 1) an idiot, 2) dishonest or 3) complicit (or any combination of). malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ghill Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:57 PM To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear It may be my fondest love, but in the big scope of things, it's just a bunch of skimply-clad people running around in circles. I'll get around to HATING what drugs have done to ALL sports after I've cleansed the world of welfare fraud, corporate fraud, the dumbing down of our educational system and the rape pillage of our air and water. (short list) gh
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Have a happy new year. JL Martin J. Dixon wrote: Have almost got in some fights because of the verbal and even physical abuse of the smokers who gather out in front of the 3 high schools in polite Brantford, Ontario, Canada that I run by periodically. How I react will usually depend on how hard I am working. It definitely isn't a regional thing. Right now, I'm in Ellicottville NY about an hour south of Buffalo and some of the locals are inbred rednecks and they have actually chased me with their vehicles. Regards, Martin ghill wrote: Is Dan's experience a regional thing, or just another sign of modern society's breakdown in civility?
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Back in the day, back before running was reinvented in Boulder, there was a war in the streets as you tried to log your miles. One winter I was asked why my running outfit was so ugly. The colors of this outfit could not be blamed on my color blindness. I dyed my long johns a deep pink, my shorts were a green-yellow, the sweatshirt was orange, and my stocking cap was red. I dressed like this as a form of self defense. In the previous weeks, I was hit in the shoulder by the large mirrors of a pickup truck that came up behind me when I ran a short stretch in the same direction as the traffic. I found myself sprawled on the hood of a car because the driver only looked to the left as she made a right hand turn.On a Sunday morning, a driver swerved toward me and my hand hit the door handle, slashing the top of my hand and giving me a scar that I sport to this day. I vowed that if I was hit again, the driver would have a difficult time explaining that he didn't see me. I was ugly, but I at least felt safer. Smart move. I have a neon yellow jacket that has been jokingly referred to as Exhibit A (in case it is needed in court to prove that the driver who hit me could indeed see me). - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
I'll put my money on a miss quote from the reporter. malmo wrote: Shorter may have gotten Frenn mixed up with those other French hammer-throwers from Kent State. It could happen. Cosmic unconsciousness. Shrimp plate $1.99. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lee Nichols Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 5:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn The wording is vague, so I wonder if the mistake was Shorter's or the reporter's? The part about Frenn being dead might be understandable, as athletes get forgotten after their glory years, but the part about him being a Frenchman would be a strange mistake for Shorter to make, because Frenn was not exactly obscure -- he was nationally ranked from 1963 to 1977, including No. 1 three consecutive years (1969-71) Lee From Page A2 of today's New York Times: Editors' Note A front-page article on Monday described the use of steroids by men and women seeking larger, more chiseled bodies. The article traced the spread of the drugs from the world of weight lifting and bodybuilding to the general society. In discussing the history of steroid use in athletic competition, the article cited a comment by Frank Shorter, a former Olympic marathon champion, who said that before a meet in France in 1969 he saw the hammer thrower George Frenn inject a steroid into his leg. Mr. Shorter is now chairman of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which performs drug tests for Olympic-related sports. The article said Mr. Frenn was a Frenchman, and Mr. Shorter said he died at an early age. On Monday, a freelance track journalist alerted The Times that Mr. Frenn was alive and was a native of the United States. Telephoned at home in Sacramento, Mr. Frenn said, Frank Shorter never ever saw me inject myself. He declined to answer further questions. In an interview later that day, he added, How dare Frank Shorter say something like that. -- Lee Nichols Assistant News Editor The Austin Chronicle 512/454-5766, ext. 138 fax 512/458-6910 http://austinchronicle.com
Re: t-and-f: Shorter clarification
John, With all due respect, why do you chose to believe that Frank really said this and it was not a mistake. Just because a reporter gets the quote in the paper it doesn't make it true. If the reporter wanted to retract the statement, it would appear on page 38. It really is just another story-maybe it's true, maybe not. Heck, I remember reading a story about the Ivy League going to DII. John John Sun wrote: But I am disappointed that as a lawyer in charge of an organization as important as WADA that he'd attack a guy he didn't really remember and didn't have ironclad facts about. That's the credibility issue that concerns me. Exactly. It's a bit disturbing that the head of USADA, which has so many protections in place to ensure US athletes are afforded privacy and due process in their doping cases, would openly accuse a fellow athlete of doping with no solid evidence. Then again it doesn't surprise me given USADA's spotty record. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn
Garry, Who has more credibility, Frank or the reporter? Why would you assume that what you read is actually what Frank said? Except for TFN reports, I have my doubt about anything that I read in the press. John ghill wrote: No need to crosscheck: Frank's credibiity takes another hit because he can't even get the year right. U.S. had duals with Germany (Stuttgart) and Britain (London) in '69. The U.S.-France dual was in '70. Both Frenn and Shorter were in all 3 meets (plus the previously mentioned '72 Olympics). And he remembers him as a Frenchman? gh From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:38:59 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Frank Shorter disses George Frenn I'm sure one of you statisticians is right now checking out what meets occured in France in 1969, with Frank Shorter entered, and then cross-checking the hammer throw entrants in the same meet. Do any of those entrants have names that remotely sound like George something- maybe Georges ? I suspect that Shorter accurately remembers seeing it happen, but has confused the identity of the person he saw. And unfortunately the name he threw out is somebody who is still living and adamantly denies it- perhaps George Frenn was not even entered in ANY meets in France in 1969. RT
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
I can tell you who. Dave Neilson,head track coach at Idaho State and Stacey Dragilla's coach, made the front cover of several track magazines with his somersault jump. I don't remember his longest jump, but I know that there could be a big difference between his longest and shortest jump of the session depending on how he came out of his tuck. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? Jim Reardon
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
I'll bet on the Russian ballet dancers to win the high jump. John Jones, Carleton wrote: I've often wanted to be rich. Not just for the ease of life and such, but also so I could sponsor some cool ideas I've wondered about. One of these would be a track meet with much simpler rules than we have now. The idea of track, it seems to me, is to see who can huck that iron ball farther, who can jump farther or higher, and of course who can run faster for various distances. So let's have a meet where you can huck that 16lb chunk of iron any way you want. Two hands, running start, round-off and CHUCK! Same with the other events - jump any way you want, bring back the two-handed spinning javelin. I mean, if the question really is, Who can jump higher? then why not take off from two feet? Going even farther, why only six attempts? Open the pit for a couple of hours and measure jumps. The guy/gal who went the farthest wins - simple. After all, I'm rich, it's my meet, I can give the prize money any way I want! Of course the mile stays the same :-) Cheers, Buck P.s. Can you imagine the conversation if the originators of the event didn't use a small concrete ring and one hand and a 'putting' technique? WR holder: Dang! I threw that shot 150 feet! (or 45m for you Canucks and Continentals). Other guy: Well sure, but I 'put' the shot 75 feet using only one hand AND I didn't step outside of this little concrete circle. Hah! What do you think about that! WR holder: Uh... great. Why'd you do it like that? -Original Message- From: Post, Marty [mailto:Marty.Post;Rodale.com] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:31 AM To: 't-and-fdarkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) Subject: t-and-f: banned high jump technique I don't have any citations for this, but I seem to recall anecdotal reports that gymnastic experts using a series of flips and a two-footed takeoff (illegal per IAAF rules) have been able to achieve extraordinary heights near or better than eight feet.
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
Buck, I heard Frank Potts tell the story of going to an international meet and a Japanese pole vaulter walked up to the pit (probably saw dust), placed his pole in the box, shimmied up the pole, and dropped over the bar, winning the event. They passed a rule- one hand must be fixed in place. Can a vaulter do this in your meet? John Jones, Carleton wrote: I've often wanted to be rich. Not just for the ease of life and such, but also so I could sponsor some cool ideas I've wondered about. One of these would be a track meet with much simpler rules than we have now. The idea of track, it seems to me, is to see who can huck that iron ball farther, who can jump farther or higher, and of course who can run faster for various distances. So let's have a meet where you can huck that 16lb chunk of iron any way you want. Two hands, running start, round-off and CHUCK! Same with the other events - jump any way you want, bring back the two-handed spinning javelin. I mean, if the question really is, Who can jump higher? then why not take off from two feet? Going even farther, why only six attempts? Open the pit for a couple of hours and measure jumps. The guy/gal who went the farthest wins - simple. After all, I'm rich, it's my meet, I can give the prize money any way I want! Of course the mile stays the same :-) Cheers, Buck P.s. Can you imagine the conversation if the originators of the event didn't use a small concrete ring and one hand and a 'putting' technique? WR holder: Dang! I threw that shot 150 feet! (or 45m for you Canucks and Continentals). Other guy: Well sure, but I 'put' the shot 75 feet using only one hand AND I didn't step outside of this little concrete circle. Hah! What do you think about that! WR holder: Uh... great. Why'd you do it like that? -Original Message- From: Post, Marty [mailto:Marty.Post;Rodale.com] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:31 AM To: 't-and-fdarkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) Subject: t-and-f: banned high jump technique I don't have any citations for this, but I seem to recall anecdotal reports that gymnastic experts using a series of flips and a two-footed takeoff (illegal per IAAF rules) have been able to achieve extraordinary heights near or better than eight feet.
t-and-f: [Fwd: ]
Is anyone getting messages like these? ---BeginMessage--- ---End Message---
Re: t-and-f: That's my $125 Once A Runner on eBay!!!
What is the difference? Keith Whitman wrote: OK, I'm sorry folks, but enough of the madness. It's just a book and I can't believe that anybody would pay that much for this book (eventhough I have no doubt that somebody did). Want to read a book that can truly change your life? Try the bible. It's only a sport, it aint real life! Keith Whitman Head Coach Cross Country/Track Field Muskingum College http://www.muskingum.edu (740) 826-8018-Office (330) 677-4631-Home (740) 826-8300-Fax Galations 2:20
t-and-f: Psychic wins lottery
Seemed better than test.
Re: t-and-f: Anticipating the Gun (was Assertions)
Keep up the good work guys, I know that the list is working. JL Robert Hersh wrote: Dan, Wayne -- Are you guys trying to get this dialogue to publishable length? Or are you just working on a cure for insomnia? :-)
Re: t-and-f: Webb's Marathon Debut (was Viren article and journalism)
It seems to me that this is another instance of questioning what you read in the press. I doubt that Shorter ever made such a statement. John Lunn Martin J. Dixon wrote: I'd say it was a very foolishly written and/or edited article-note the thread that I was perpetuating. Someone on letsrun thought it would have been a good Onion article which is true. The real question is whether or not Shorter actually believed that Webb was going to run one. Sounds like one of those morning radio show phone call jokes. Regards, Martin Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: I thought Martin was kidding until I read the article. This is the dumbest idea I have heard of in a long time. The volume of long contact time training necessary to run a fast marathon will end any chance he may have as a world class middle distance runner. Unless there is some reason to believe that he has more aptitude as a marathoner than as a middle distance runner this is a very foolish decision, in my opinion. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Here I go again being persnickety and nauseating: Webb is scheduled to make his marathon debut next month in Chicago. Shorter suspects that Webb has made a good decision. http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/4084391.htm -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Thank you note
Too late! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your tounger daughter? I could make some deliciously naughty joke outta that, but I'll leave it to people's imaginations and not get myself in trouble... sideshow
Re: t-and-f: GOOD track field movies/books?
If I am not mistaken, the movie that you remember is about a University of New Mexico miler by the name of Baker. John Mike Prizy wrote: Wasn't there another made-for-TV movie about a college-aged distance runner stricken with cancer who eventually died? I thought it was fact-based. I could be way off on the circa, but I thought it came out around The Jericho Mile. Martin J. Dixon wrote: Jericho Mile-1979. Strauss starred-Mann directed-pre Heat, Thief, Manhunter(the first Hannibal Lector movie) and of course Miami Vice. Great movie. The strains of Sympathy to the Devil can easily get you out the door. Book-Once A Runner-the 400 repeats work-out is a classic. The Olympian is better written but not as good if you are a runner. Regards, Martin FJ LEE wrote: Thanks for all the help I got in remembering the name of the novel/movie The Games. I noticed that most responders agreed that it was pretty bad, both in written and film form, which got me curious -- can anyone think of any truly good track field movies or books? wasn't there a movie about a convict who runs a sub 4-minute mile time- trial in jail, and then throws his spikes over the fence (i.e. the freedom side) as the final scene? I think it was the late 70's-early 80's? How can we forget Golden Girl with Susan Anton... the first person to triple in the sprints.. 100-200-400? Marion, are you out there? JL
Re: t-and-f: Viren article and journalism
Ed and Dana Parrot wrote: Clearly publishers/owners (because the buck must stop with tme) have decided that accuracy can be sacrificed. I guess that when I sign up for the Rocky Mountain News for one year for $3.12 and an extra year for $.01that I also have made the decision that accuracy can be sacrificed. With the present day news media, TF News excluded, anything I read or hear is just another interesting story, maybe true maybe not. John Lunn
Re: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer
Who wound you up? I think that it's time for another out-n-back run for you. Take care, JL Let me guess, it won't be a Masters record unless he files the proper documentation with those authorities? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lance Deal cracks AR for M40 hammer Greetings, all The Associated Press reports that Lance Deal, who turned 40 last August, has won his ninth USATF national open title in the hammer: Lance Deal, who retired after the 2000 Sydney Olympics, returned to win his ninth national title in the hammer throw with a toss of 244-5. That ties Hal Connolly, who won nine U.S. titles in the hammer in the 1950s and 1960s. Deal, who only began working out seriously again in March, said nowhere in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be back here at the national championships. I just decided to go out and throw on a sunny day in December and it just filled my heart, said the graying Deal. It was like visiting an old friend. Deal, 40, was an Olympic silver medalist at the 1996 Atlanta Games and dominated hammer throwing in the United States throughout the 1990s. Me again: Deal brroke the listed American M40 record for the hammer of 243-11 (74.34) by Ed Burke at age 44 in 1984 and is 4 feet shy of the world masters record of 75.66 (248-3) by Yuriy Sedykh of Ukraine. Ken Stone http:/www.masterstrack.com Results: Flash Results, Inc. 2002 USA Outdoor Championships - 6/21/2002 to 6/23/2002 Cobb Track Angell Field, Stanford Univ. Event 39 Men Hammer Throw == American: 82.52m 9/7/1996Lance Deal, NYAC NameYear TeamFinals == Finals 1 Lance Deal New York Ath74.49m 244-05 72.41m 73.02m 74.49m 70.81m FOUL 74.41m 2 John McEwen Team ZMA74.18m 243-04 73.51m 74.18m FOUL 71.88m 71.87m 73.40m 3 Kevin McMahonNew York Ath73.65m 241-08 73.12m FOUL PASS FOUL 73.65m 72.26m 4 Jay Harvard New York Ath72.47m 237-09 72.47m 71.48m 70.15m FOUL 69.31m 67.85m 5 Gerald Ingalls US Army 70.40m 231-00 68.27m 67.38m FOUL FOUL 70.40m 66.03m 6 James HeizmanShore A.C. 68.11m 223-05 67.43m FOUL FOUL 64.24m 68.11m 66.02m 7 Scott BoothbyClub NorthWest 67.53m 221-07 66.44m 67.53m FOUL 65.68m 66.14m 63.78m 8 Carey Ryan DePAul University 67.41m 221-02 67.41m 66.40m 65.28m 64.31m FOUL 65.04m 9 Travis NutterVision Quest67.33m 220-11 FOUL 65.13m 67.33m 10 Bert Sorin Mjolnir Thro67.25m 220-08 67.25m 65.90m 63.92m 11 thomas freeman Manhattan College 65.97m 216-05 64.91m FOUL 65.97m 12 Kevin Mannon New York Ath65.42m 214-07 62.72m 64.95m 65.42m
Re: t-and-f: New American masters mile record for Young
Malmo, You crack me up! I picture you at birthday parties walking around with a pin and popping the balloons of all the kids. I've been trying to figure out PR's since I rounded over the hill. It's like this, if I run as fast today as I ran yesterday, it's a new PR for my age. Or, even if I run slower, it's a PR. Can you go up and down stairs yet? John malmo wrote: Record ratifying authorities? HA!! You guys really do take yourselves too seriously! Here's what I believe Masters running SHOULD be. A bunch of fit old guys training and racing so that they can travel, drink beer with their friends and swap tall tales, lies, rumor, and bawdy stories. Quite a bit more healthy than your version, I believe. So what exactly is the process of securing signatures and documentation for those self-appointed ratifying authorities? Could it be there is some sort of exchange of currency from record petitioner to the authority? malmo Looks like a legit candidate for American M40 record status. But of course he won't lay claim to the record without securing signatures and documentation. Hope he runs faster at Orono, where records set in the masters nationals are automatically forwarded to the record-ratifying authorities. Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
Re: t-and-f: Jennings craps out
Y'all, I don't know that Gabe gives a flip what you think, but I'll offer this for your thoughts. If gabe is suffering from clinical depression and is having trouble, what role would you like to play in his recovery? John Lunn yes, yes and again: yes!! while we're at it, let's put him in water and see if he floats. toby From: Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], TF Listserve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Jennings craps out Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:39:33 -0400 Like i've said many times about Gabe, he should shut up, get a normal hair cut, shut up, shut up, train better, shut up, race smarter, shut up, actually beat people, or just shut up! MJR _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Re: t-and-f: F%*# Baseball!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who gives a rat's ass about baseball! Okay, the issue of steroids in the sport is somewhat connected to track field, but I could care less if baseball is in bad financial shape. It's the national pastime and will always be around. What we need to worry about is track, a sport that is in lousy shape at all levels. Collegiate teams are getting cut, meets are dying in Europe and we're all fiddling while the Golden Gala burns. We had a fantastic meet at Portland and now it's only three days before Pre and there's been no discussion whatsoever! The men's shot is going to be incredible once again. After one of the greatest three-way battles ever last week in Portland, all the major players are back. Can Nelson throw even further? Sure. The conditions in Portland, where several hundred spectators surrounded the shot area, can only be matched in this country by Eugene's fans. Something special could be on tap. Then there's the men's mile. Lagat versus El G. One of only a handful of times the top two ranked athletes in that event will meet this year. I know sub-3:50 is tough mid-day in May, but it's possible. I didn't see the men's 5000 entries on the Pre site, but if all goes well, the Ethiopians will be there, including Kenisisa Bekele in his first track race since killing the fields in both races at World Cross. This could be the heir to Haile's throne. Also, great fields in every other event. I'll be at the pub Sunday night to watch it on ESPN2. You'd better be watching too, and not discussing Barry's biceps. sideshow A better way to look at this situation. The list seems to focus on bad news. There was no discussion that I can remember about Bonds when he broke the HR record. The fact that there is little discussion on this list about track and field must indicate that our world is full of good news and we just don't want to talk about it. I'll be happy if they don't lose my sons' entry, they can find his hip number, they can pronounce his name properly, they can introduce him with more than another miler from Stanford, and he doesn't go to sleep between 700 and 900 yards into the race. Real happy! John
Re: t-and-f: Fw: recipe
It seems to me that the most important issue is that of the recipe. Has anyone tried it? Is it any good? Is there such a thing as a bad chocolate chip cookie? Have we had every discussion known to mankind concerning track and field? John George Cole wrote: THIS IS NOT A TRUE STORY and should not be on this list even if it was!!! This same true story has been passed around for years - by word of mouth before the internet. George - Original Message - From: John Bale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sport History Scholars list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Track Field List (E-mail 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anthony P. Bale [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 6:49 AM Subject: t-and-f: Fw: recipe - Original Message - From: Joanna Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee Love (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steph Acton [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John Bale [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Susan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Will Bradbury [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Simon Brentford [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Simon Brentford [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jason brister [EMAIL PROTECTED]; andy burgess [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Champ [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Paul Channin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rupert Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ruth Covell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kat Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kat Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; catherine dyson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Marie Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ben frank [EMAIL PROTECTED]; sara Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: recipe Another true story? It figures, another large corporation trying to screw the little man - this should teach them! Pass it on - it is one way to get them back This is great. A little background: Neiman-Marcus, if you don't know already, is a very expensive store; i.e., they sell your typical $8.00 T-shirt for $50.00. Let's let them have it! THIS IS A TRUE STORY My daughter and I had just finished a salad at a Neiman-Marcus Cafe in Dallas, and we decided to have a small dessert. Because both of us are such cookie lovers, we decided to try the Neiman-Marcus cookie. It was so excellent that I asked if they would give me the recipe, and the waitress said with a small frown, I'm afraid not, but you can buy the recipe. Well, I asked how much, and she responded, Only two fifty-it's a great deal! I agreed to that, and told her to just add it to my tab. Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement, and the Neiman-Marcus charge was $285.00! I looked again, and I remembered I had only spent $9.95 for two salads and about $20.00 for a scarf. As I glanced at the bottom of the statement, it said, Cookie Recipe-$250.00. That was outrageous! I called Neiman's Accounting Department and told them the waitress said it was two fifty, which clearly does not mean two hundred and fifty dollars by any reasonable interpretation of the phrase. Neiman-Marcus refused to budge. They would not refund my money because, according to them, What the waitress told you is not our problem. You have already seen the recipe. We absolutely will not refund your money at this point. I explained to the Accounting Department lady the criminal statutes which govern fraud in the state of Texas. I threatened to report them to the Better Business Bureau and the Texas Attorney General's office for engaging in fraud. I was basically told, Do what you want. Don't bother thinking of how you can get even, and don't bother trying to get any of your money back. I just said, Okay, you folks got my $250, and now I'm going to have $250 worth of fun. I told her that I was going to see to it that every cookie lover in the United States with an e-mail account has a $250 cookie recipe from Neiman-Marcus...for free. She replied, I wish you wouldn't do this. I said, Well, perhaps you should have thought of that before you ripped me off! and slammed down the phone. So here it is! Please, please, please pass it on to everyone you can possibly think of. I paid $250 for this, and I don't want Neiman-Marcus to EVER make another penny off of this recipe! NEIMAN-MARCUS COOKIES (Recipe may be halved) 2 cups butter 24 oz.chocolate chips 4 cups flour 2 cups brown sugar 2 tsp. soda 1 tsp. salt 2 cups sugar 1 8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated) 5 cups blended oatmeal 4 eggs 2 tsp. baking powder 2 tsp. vanilla 3 cups chopped nuts (your choice) Measure oatmeal, and blend in a blender to a fine powder. Cream the butter and both
Re: t-and-f: It's Relays Weekend and the list is silent?!?!?!
Thanks, now I understand! malmo wrote: Everyone got bored at exactly the same time. It happens. A lot of people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch of unconnected incidences and things. They don't realize that there's this like lattice of coincidence that lays on top of everything. I'll give you an example, show you what I mean. Suppose you thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly somebody will say like plate or shrimp or plate of shrimp out of the blue no explanation. No point in looking for one either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness. See? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rich Harrington Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:27 PM To: Tony Banovich; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: It's Relays Weekend and the list is silent?!?!?! Is there anybody out there? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tony Banovich Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: It's Relays Weekend and the list is silent?!?!?! Sideshow, this actually seems to be a bigger problem on the list lately. There has been a precipitous drop in the posts over the last 2 weeks or so. Are we actually having server problems? Has the list fulfilled it's useful life (I sure hope not)? Or is everyone now just posting to other places like LetsRun.com? Curious. Tony Banovich Billings, Montana At 01:41 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'mon, y'all. Penn and Drake are this weekend and there's not even a peep outta yooz. What happened to all the great remembrances from Relays past and the discussions (arguments ?) about which is better? Don't leave all the sh*t talking to those dribblers on the letsrun.com site. Who's gonna win the Penn DMR? 'Nova, says I. Webb will run a sub-4:00 leg. The amazing 4 x Mile that I had dreamt of with Webb, Jennings and some Arkansas guy anchoring won't come off, but it'll still be a good one. I say Arkansas takes it. I believe Wisconsin could be tough, but I believe I saw they'll be at Drake. The Drake meet has some fantastic open fields. The mile will have Lagat, Lassiter, Abdi (world racewalk record ? :-) ), Berryhill and others. Suzy will run the 3K. Good men's shot. Both vaults will be excellent. Let's hope the weather holds. Any other predictions? sideshow
t-and-f: Jeff Johnson of the Nike Farm Team]
---BeginMessage--- Jeff Johnson's Border Clash 2001 Remarks Thank you. Good evening. It's a real pleasure for me to be with you tonight. It seems to me that I've spent my entire life surrounded by winners. First, on my own high school and college teams, then later working here at Nike, and finally in coaching. It is a privilege to be back in the company of winners once again. I come to you tonight with a question. It's a rhetorical question, so don't raise your hands. Here's the question: Why do you run? Why do you run so many miles? Why do you train in the heat... in the rain... in the wind... in the dark... in the cold? Why do you endure so much inconvenience, so much discomfort, so much loneliness? Why do you run? You've probably been asked that question before. It's not an easy question to answer, is it? If someone has to ask, they'll probably never understand. A man once came to Mozart and said: Teach me to write a symphony. Mozart answered: I can't teach you. The man said: Why not? You were writing symphonies when you were 4 years old. To which Mozart replied: Yes, but I didn't have to ask how. To write timeless symphonies requires a genius that running does not demand... lucky for us... but the problem of explanation is much the same: If you have to ask, you just don't get it. And you probably won't get it. But you get it, don't you? You would never ask someone: Why do you run? (Except maybe rhetorically.) Nevertheless, even you who get it have a hard time articulating your passion. I think that is because running is a passion of the spirit. And explaining the spirit is never easy. Running is the expressway to self-confidence, self awareness, self-discipline and self-reliance. From running, you learn the harsh realities of your physical and mental limitations... From running, you gain strategies for extending those limitations, that you might run farther, run faster, and run tougher. You learn that personal responsibility... commitment... sacrifice... determination... and persistence are the only means of improvement. Running, you come to understand, is a profound, far-reaching and never ending contest of the runner with himself... or herself. And you learn that runners only get promoted through self-conquest. Running asks a question of you, and everyday it's the same question: Are you going to be a wimp, or are you going to be strong today? And when you answer that question in the way that you people in this room have answered it, you become a better... stronger... more confident animal... with a capacity for achievement greater than before, and a formula for success that is forever engraved on your brain. (It is no accident, I think, that this place was founded by runners.) The single, most outstanding characteristic of the runner is independence. Through your own will, you present yourselves to the fire; and the fire changes you, permanently and forever. Body and spirit I surrendered whole To harsh instructors And received a soul. Rudyard Kipling wrote those lines nearly a century ago. It's unrecorded what Kipling's PR was for 5-K, but I suspect that he had one. Why do you run? Each of you may articulate it differently, but perhaps we can agree that running touches us spiritually... it forms us... and it strengthens us. It makes us who we are... and at some level, it is who we are. But you can be a runner without being a racer. So here's another question for you: Why do you compete? Why do you race 3.1 miles. That's gotta hurt. Why do you do it? For most of you... I imagine that you race for the challenge... the danger... the rush of putting yourself in a place where you must do your absolute best... ... Because the race requires it. To give your best is to honor your fellow competitors... your teammates... your coach... your school... your family... your community... and all the good people who have worked so hard to put on the race. To give your best in a race is a matter of honor... and duty... and you know that going in. You know, also, that the course will challenge you... that your competitors will challenge you... and that your will challenge yourself. You know, too, that there will come a critical moment in the race where you must make the decision to lay it on the line... to take your shot... or to fall back and regroup. And you hope you'll be up to the challenge, but you're never entirely sure... and it's that uncertainty that calls to you... because it is there, at that moment, that moment of decision, that you offer yourself up to be measured: by the clock... by your legs and lungs... by your guts, and by your heart. And if you want to win the race, in that moment of decision, you're going to have to go a little crazy. You race, then, because races are a big deal. (In fact, speaking from the vantage point of both experience and hindsight, I dare say that at this
[Fwd: t-and-f: Bowling Green to cut men's track]
---BeginMessage--- As opposed to following the big buck sports, following track and field takes work. You must know when an event is taking place and where to go to get information. I missed more than a decade of following the sport because I didn't have the time to dig out the information. John Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: Bob Ramsak wrote: Let's see what the alumni have to say about this... Was in touch with Dave Wottle briefly a couple of years ago, and he said he really doesn't follow the sport anymore. For what it's worth, this might arouse his interest. He hasn't followed the sport since he retired from competition over 25 years ago from what I've heard from people who should know. This might start another thread: With track being the largest sport in terms of participation among high school athletes, why is there so little interest among the public? -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000) ---End Message---
Re: t-and-f: Leaders have no vision
Harold, I don't want to be picky, but it seems by your examples that the vision doesn't need as much help as does the execution. John Harold Richards wrote: This might start another thread: With track being the largest sport in terms of participation among high school athletes, why is there so little interest among the public? -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. One might look at the last Indoor Championship Meet at the Armory in New York for indicators of bigger problems in our sport. From concept to execution the USATF continues to throw in some left hand turns that prevent it from reaching an appropriate conclusion. Consider the following items; 1. The USATF brought in Maurice Green to make some appearances at the meet. OK. On the first night of the meet, they sent him to a basketball game instead of the meet. 2. The USATF made announcements concerning the 40th anniversary of Jim Beatty breaking 4 minutes in the indoor mile and that he would be honored at the meet. OK. They honored him at the end of the meet, after the last event, while people were filing out of the Armory. There was no mention of the event on the TV coverage. 3. The improved press coverage was one of the reasons used for the decision to move the meet from Atlanta to New York. OK. Where was the coverage, it certainly was not in the Times.One already needed to know about the meet and know where to find it before they could read it. Maybe it was covered somewhere else in New York and I couldn't find it. 4. Even bringing in the high school kids did not sell out the meet. 5. The TV program had 92 seconds to cover the false start in the men's' 400, 32 seconds to cover the story of a splinter, but 31 seconds to cover the men's mile. The mile had the second fastest championship time in over a decade and had the highest number of sub 4 minute runners ever. 6. The TV ratings that we read about are good. OK. The information comes from the USATF. If the ratings really are accurate, why does the USATF pay to get TV time? Is the coverage a source of income or an expense? HR _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: t-and-f: Bowling Green to cut men's track
Why can't we copy more of the methods that they use? JL Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: John, This is because the ball sports have big propaganda departments that feed an never ending barrage of material to sportswriters, who like most people, are only too happy to take the easy way out and print what they have received, rather than produce their own story about something like a track meet. Not to mention the hospitalities that the big buck sports provide to essentially bribe the writers to cover them. Wayne John Lunn wrote: As opposed to following the big buck sports, following track and field takes work. You must know when an event is taking place and where to go to get information. I missed more than a decade of following the sport because I didn't have the time to dig out the information. John -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Nike, Cross Nationals, USATF
Dan Kaplan wrote: . If I have any power, which I sincerely doubt, it would have to be the foolish willingness to mix it up with people who place emotion before reason. You must be a married man. JL
Re: t-and-f: sub-4:00 club takes a jump
I thought that Hughes ran sub 4 when he was training in North Carolina several years ago. JL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last weekend was a significant one in terms of new Americans joining the sub-4:00 club, as 5 did it. That assumes that those who had/have doubts about the Washington track aren't borne out. (Any time almost everybody in a race PRs, inquiring minds do want to know why.) And the slowest of the Washington guys gets a prize! First, Jeremy Huffman became the No. 246 American ever with his 5th-place 3:59.78 at USATF on Friday. Then we had four memberships in Seattle: 247. Eric Garner (Wa) 3:58.93 248. Don Sage (Stan)3:59.49 249. Brandon Strong (AzSt) 3:59.59 250. Ray Hughes (Nik) 3:59.78 You may recall that last spring, in anticipation of Mr. 250, TFN offered a symbolic $250 prize. So that'll be Ray Hughes. (Thank goodness it wasn't a collegian, making for NCAA hoops through which to jump.) gh
t-and-f: Virtual head to head competition
I was impressed with one aspect of the ski coverage on TV last night. NBC overlayed the video of a previous skier on top of the performer and thus giving the appearance of head to head competition. I realize that we don't even use a split screen for track meets, but the idea of using this technology for track meets is interesting. JL
t-and-f: Nutrition
Garry, don't get mad at me. I have a question that is better than any of the drug questions and is somewhat related to nutrition and will power. Why do Girl Scout cookies show up on the first day of Lent? JL
t-and-f: WADA Funding?
My understanding, not necessarily correct, is that USADA gets a large portion of its funding from the USOC. Where does WADA get its funding? What are the checks and balances on WADA? Thanks, John
t-and-f: Human Hydroplane
Those who like to argue (discuss) the topic of racing too much might want to look at what Rotich has done in the last 2 weeks. He ran the mile in the Boston indoor meet. Then, less than a week later, he ran at Milrose winning the mile in 3:57. The next day he went to Arkansas and won the mile in 3:57. Next, he is scheduled to run the mile at the Nebraska meet on February 9. John Lunn
Re: t-and-f: USATF Regionals
I can really see the value in such a system, but unless you can convince the powers that be to make the Nationals later (as they should be!) (and as the Oly Trials prove they can be) I don't see it working. Just too much clog on the schedule earlier. gh Garry, An issue on this topic that has not been covered is that of the expense to the athlete. How do these kids get that much time off from work? Where do they get the money to get to the meet etc.? Are these meets only for the financially elite? John
Re: t-and-f: USATF Release - adidas Boston Indoor Games
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contact:Jill M. Geer Director of Communications (317) 261-0500 x360 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Friday, January 25, 2002 Adidas Joe Concannon Mens Mile: Kevin Sullivan (CAN), Ibrahim Aden, Daniel Zegeye (ETH), Brian Berryhill, Andy Graffan (GBR), Bernard Lagat (KEN), Martin Keino (KEN), Jason Pyrah, Jason Long, Dan Wilson, Nathan Brennan (CAN), Bryce Knight I have some knowledge about everyone in the race, including the rabbit, with the exception of Jason Long. Who is he and what has he run? Thanks in advance. JL
Re: t-and-f: High School events added to USA indoor championships
Kurt Bray wrote: Most of the crowd in Atlanta it seems came for the high school events, the place would empty out after the high school events were over. If it is the HS events that brings out the crowd, doesn't this argue in favor of including them? I'm not a big fan of the HS events at US Champs either, but I'd prefer to put up with them rather than see no crowd in place of of the usual sparse crowd. My guess is that USATF includes them precisely for this reason. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Let me see if I understand this correctly. We are concerned about the lack of seating and the discussion is whether the place holds 1300 or 5000. AND, we are concerned about the attendance, so we are throwing in some events to buy a crowd. Something missing? John
Re: t-and-f: virtual rabbits
When I watched the last Bronco game, I thought that the Orad technology was already being used. JL Post, Marty wrote: New Scientist says a company called Orad wants to superimpose virtual athletes into actual televised sports events like running, swimming, etc. The virtual athletes would be programmed to run at a certain pace, say world-record pace, enabling viewers to compare the actual race to the world-record pace. This is like the virtual ads now superimposed on sports TV. More at Orad website: http://www.orad.co.il/sport/index.htm Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
Re: t-and-f: Acuff in running for World's Sexiest Athlete
Contact Dan Wilson-off list. Randall Northam wrote: on 5/1/02 2:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Y ask: ESPN is conducting an online poll on the world's sexiest athletes -- men and women both. Only trackster listed is Amy Acuff. My vote goes to that cross country runner whose name I forget. That, however, is the only thing I've forgotten about her. Sadly, I lost the URL. Randall Northam
t-and-f: Test
Test
Re: t-and-f: Attention Track Statisticians!
I have suspected this variation for years as my body weight is always more at the doctors office than it is at home. Thanks, JL Kurt Bray wrote: It turns out that gravity on earth is not uniform. There is small but measurable variation in the force of gravity from place to place. Meaning that objects such as athletes and throwing implements can weigh less in one place than in another. The causes of this variation are not well understood. The good news is that the areas of highest and lowest gravity both happen to be under the ocean, however there is still considerable variation over land masses, meaning that, for a given level of effort, in some areas throwers will throw farther, jumpers will jump farther/higher, and runners will run faster too. I'm surprised that track statistician are not already all over this - diligently invalidating records, calculating conversion factors and tables, and adding the letter G next to any low gravity-tainted marks still on the books. Get busy boys! You can read about this and see a map of gravity variation at this NASA site: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/earth/features/watkins.html Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: name change
'Lord knows that with everything that is going on, the last thing that we need is another onerous burden. JL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canadian public discovered that marketing such an animal was a very onerous burden. gh
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Nice recovery! JL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just don't get it. I'm sure I've read a post that was more condescending than the one RANDY TREADWAY ..yada, yada, yada Now THAT'S a sample of the distance vs non-distance debates that people say they miss from the 'good old days' of the beginning of this list back in '94-95. Not a word about doping in the entire thread. Not a single squabble about the USATF or the British Federation. Just pure, unadulterated college-level BS. That's right, we've returned to the 'good old days'. Do I really care one way or another about two races versus one single long cross race? Of course not. Or who qualifies at large in regionals versus pre-Nat's? Couldn't care less. Or whether 800 runners are chicken-assed if they can't compete effectively at a he-man's race like a 10K cross? Not a bit. My chicken-ass was faster in its prime than most people's lard-ass anyway :-) If the NCAA wiped out cross country entirely, would it be any different than a tree falling in the woods with nobody there to hear it? I don't know the answer to that question. For that matter, I'm not really all that INTERESTED in the answer to that question. But I DID draw out some people to address both sides of issues and supporting rationale rather than just keep spouting the '10K cross runners are on the only masculine people on the planet' mantra, didn't I? hee hee, a little bluster and condescension smokes 'em out every time... RT
t-and-f: The list is well
Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for information on sprinting books. Listers were generous with their information and with their opinions. I would recommend to everyone that they use this list as a resource for track information. Sincerely, John Lunn
t-and-f: Sprint books
A friend of mine has discovered that his son has some speed. The 14 yr. old is excited and wants to go out for track next year when he gets to high school. The Dad asked me for a list of good books, but none came to mind. Thanks in advance for any help you can give in putting together a bibliography. JL
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Better yet! There needs to be an * next to this record to indicate an altitude allowance for the number of home runs hit in Denver against the Rockies. alan tobin wrote: I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through 1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of the major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: XC Results - Codfish Bowl (Div II/III) - Franklin Pk - Boston
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What the HECK is Northern Colorado doing at the Codfish Bowl in MA? Do they even know what codfish are out in Greeley? Jim Gerweck Running Times The nerve! Everyone knows that you can't run in a race unless you know these things. I hope that everyone who runs in Boulder knows what a Rocky Mountain Shootout is. I suggest a quiz before the race. JL
Re: t-and-f: Boldon ephedrine statement.
Martin J. Dixon wrote: Boldon ephedrine statement. http://www.atoboldon.com/atrack/september2001/page1.asp Regards, Martin Bolden certainly has a point. An athlete must stay away from over the counter cold medications and must know about the ingredients in restaurant food. According to a group in California, Starbucks uses ephedrine as an ingredient in their Chai Tea. Imagine the outrage that Ado would feel if he tested positive after drinking a cup of tea at Starbucks. John Lunn
t-and-f: [Fwd: Re: Group Sues Starbucks Over Tea Ingredient]
-- [Yahoo! News] News Home - Yahoo! - My Yahoo! - News Alerts - Help [KCBS Channel2000.com] -- Daily video weather forecasts from around the globe [Buy mobile phones] Home Top BusinessTechPoliticsWorld Local Entertainment Sports Op/Ed Science Health Full Stories Coverage Local - Channel 2000 - updated 11:05 PM ET Sep 9 [My]Add to My Yahoo! Los Angeles Times | KCBS Channel2000.com | L.A. Weekly Friday September 07 12:05 AM EDT Group Sues Starbucks Over Tea Ingredient ADVERTISEMENT You may be getting a bigger high from your Tazo Chai Tea than you think, according to a group that sued Starbucks Thursday. [Image] The Council For Education And Research On Toxics claims Email: that the Seattle-based company has been secretly adding Getephedrine to Tazo Chai Tea, a violation of health and Height: Information On safety codes.ft in Our Special Weight: Assignment Our comment at this time is that we have no information Age: Investigations because we have not seen the complaint, nor are we aware of any complaint, Audrey Lincoff of Starbucks told news Sex F M Get The Latest wires. She declined talk about ingredients in Tazo Chai WeatherTea. Sign Up For NOTE: This Daily News The Los Angeles Superior Court lawsuit alleges Starbucks information is Flasheshas sold Tazo Chai Tea in a form containing ephedrine transmitted to Research Your since at least 1996. The company did not disclose that the eDiets and is Next New Car tea contained the substance, according to the suit. not maintained Hereor used by Ephedrine is an amphetamine-like drug known to stimulate Yahoo!. Please the heart and central nervous system. Ephedra is a Chinese herb, also read called Ma Huang, from which the drug is extracted. eDiets'sprivacy policy to learn Defendants have exposed countless unsuspecting persons within the state of more about California who purchased and consumed 'Tazo Chai Tea' to ephedrine, the their use of suit alleges. this information. News wires reported that the group wants a restraining order against Starbucks barring the sale of the tea and for profits from the tea disgorged. Email this story - View most popular | Printer-friendly format Archived Stories by Date: News Resources [Image]Message Boards: Post/Read Msgs (13 msg Sep 7, 7:30 PM ET) [Image]Conversations: Start a live discussion [Image]Chat: Regional US Los Angeles ADVERTISEMENT Weekly Specials ·Get the credit you deserve with a Getsmart Visa! ·4.5 ¢ state to state long distance ·FREE credit report trial membership! ·Find mortgage rates now at Getsmart! ·Get 50% Off Delivery of The New York Times! ·Free Ericsson Phone with Cool Accessories! Search News Advanced Search: Stories Photos Audio/Video Full Coverage Home Top BusinessTechPoliticsWorld Local Entertainment Sports Op/Ed Science Health Full Stories Coverage Copyright © 2001 Yahoo! and KCBS Channel2000.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Questions or
t-and-f: [Fwd: Are you OK]
John Lunn wrote: Joe, We are worried about you! We pray that you are safe. Please let us know. John thnks for asking, sorry so lat6e to reply we were evacuated at 10am tues. am in midtown. was moved here in 1998. the 2nd plane hit almost exactly on my former office window. have many friends exposed. have heard from only 4 that are ok. a little tip -- wtahcing tv is less gutwrenching than reading the papr -- Joseph Aloysius McVeigh Morgan Stanley 212-761-6115 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Boldon's positive
TheDenverChannel.com - Group Sues Starbucks Over Tea Ingredient The athlete is responsible for everything that enters his body? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ephedrine you can get caught with due to careless label reading. Generally, and I don't know if all companies follow the labelling laws, if a product contains ephedra it will either say it directly (or mention Ma Huang), mention that it contains a certain percentage of psuedoephedrine or mention that the product should not be taken with caffiene or other mild stimulants or cold medications containing ephedra such Sudafed, Actifed, etc. Another way down the thought process is to assume that all Energy supps, diet supps and trimming supps contain ephedra. It's not real difficult and also very hard for me to believe that a world class athlete is naive to these points. Steve S.
t-and-f: McMullen
Very unofficial results from Hectel with the automatic timing system on the fritz, McMullen came in second with a 3:36.1. Hopefully Ed Gordon is there and will fill us in. John
t-and-f: revised Mc Mullen
3:35.3
Re: t-and-f: U.S. TV Reminder
The moral being, you can't always get what you want. Walt Murphy .but,if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need. Some guy with big lips.
Re: t-and-f: New rules to challenge athletes at adidas Oregon
Why not try a compromise? Two jumps at each height until there are 4 or 6 competitors in the event, then go to the three attempts each. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is sad to know, again. I will not begin on the false start rule, but I am dismayed by the lack of foresight in the field events. The rules sacrifice performance for speed, and that is against the solution. With 2 jumps you force vaulters to clear safe heights, and limit opportunities at record performances. DGS Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
t-and-f: Re:gossip (was Howard Clark)
Hey, It appears to me that truth and gossip are not necessarily unrelated. If you are passing on the truth, but it is unkind, it can be considered gossip. My wife points out that men don't call it gossip- it's called shoptalk. John sean other wrote: WOW, This does annoy you doesn't it. Repeating my assertion that there was NO gossip involved. The only person making simple things complicated is you constructing a major conspiracy out of a simple post. Wait until there is evidence of a person gossiping before accusing someone of gossip just as you should wait until there is evidence of drug abuse before accusing someone of abusing. Sean --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While your cutting and pasting, maybe you should catch the point that went above your head. In the article, there is all the information that you need. You know the person, the drug, the penalty and we know in most cases where the drug came from. What direction do you think that original post was trying to go? The history of this list has shown that that simple topic leads to the flo jo opinion the ben-wasn't-the-only-one people, the all top sprinters, distance runners and throwers are dirty and then the so called behind the scene knowledge comes out and it becomes a GOSSIP session. Why do you think the article was so interesting to him? Stop making the simple, complicated. I'm done DMC While intelligent people can often simplify the complex, a fool is more likely to complicate the simple. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Re: WHY you check before you send virus warnings!
Rich Harrington wrote: Virus HOAXES are designed to get people to forward them on to everyone they know, thereby overloading mail systems. ALWAYS check with a credible source before you cry wolf. I can't wait to see the next Hoaxe Hoax warning. Do I pass that along?Does that mean that it is real? I'll open everything a day late and from the bottom up so that all of you guys can out wit eachother.The guy who has a system running will win. JL
t-and-f: Re: WHY you check before you send virus warnings
My Friend, The fact of the matter is that I had NOTHING to do with passing along ANYTHING. I'm tired of people jumping all over someone for making a post with good intentions. I'm sure that McLatchie, or whomever, was trying to help out and doesn't need the B.S.. So, speaking of checking things out, YOU check things out before jumping my butt! John Lunn As everyone has privately and publicly tried to politely tell you(for your own good, believe it or not), you really should check before passing on the information. As a matter of fact, I've never seen such unanimity about any issue on this list.This particular hoax talked about a vaccine for crying out loud. Regards, Martin
Re: t-and-f: Viruses
What the heck! If the warning is bogus, it's just one more time on the delete button. If you get no warning, everything is gone. I say don't be so critical, warn me every chance you get. And...Thanks for the effort! John Lunn "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: People should confirm something is a virus before burdening lists or others with these types of messages. The propagation of these messages IS the virus.Regards,MartinMartin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner Millard, Rouse Rosebrugh LLP Chartered Accountants P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender.
Re: t-and-f: Stanford 10k and Not Just Kennedy
Thanks, my thoughts exactly! After reading this list for the recent past, I wonder why Kennedy would even show up for the race when he knows that Africans will be there also. Culpepper could be ready. John Ryan Grote wrote: There are other people in the field...other Americans even.Everybody always seems to forget about Meb Keflezighi. He was rarely a favorite to win the NCAA titles he won. Kind of a surprise to people when he won the trials. Not the guy everybody talked about before x-c nationals in February. He is very tough to beat when ready. Sure, Kennedy beat him by a spot at world x-c...GroteadiRP/MMRD
t-and-f: Idaho State
Dragila goes 15'5 at ISU ! ISU men get third at Penn in the 4X800. Congrats to all. John
t-and-f: [Fwd: I don't get it]
Please explain some things to me. When tracing ancestry, how far back do you go? I assumed that if you go back far enough, you and I would have the same root in this giant tree.No? If I line up next to you for a race, do I give a flip about your past beyond your PR? John Jon Entine wrote: On 4/23/01 9:46 AM, alan tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is interesting is that in both Boston and London an American or Brit was 6th. I do believe Cox would have been top 5 at Boston if it wasn't for the cramp in his side. What does Jon have to say about South African runners? According to gene studies, such as Cavalli-Sforza's The History and Geograpy of Genes, South African blacks (by and large) trace much of their ancestry to East Africa. Of course I haven't read your book Jon. I already know what it basically says because you've told us countless times...:) Still doesn't prove that North/East Africans are dominating marathoning. North and East Africans win approximately 50 percent of the top marathons, all drawn from a population base of less than 3 million or so (the areas that turn out such runners). Poverty probably cuts into the potential of a good percentage of those. If that's not dominance, you've managed to redefine the term. If that was the case then there would never be a Brit, American, Asian, Russian, ect in the top 10 and the world record would be shot into the stratosphere. Alan: You miss the point entirely. This is not genetic determinism. Genes proscribe possibility, they don't confer inevitability. A marathon is too filled with serendipity to exclude anyone from POSSIBLY doing well. Are their tall women in the world? Yes. Are men taller than women? On average, yes -- the bell curve distribution for tallness is both longer towards tallness and fatter -- there are more at each of the longer heights. It's exactly the same in running. The Bell Curve distribution at sprinting is VERY long and VERY thick for athletes of West African ancestry. It's quite long and thick on the endurance end for North and East Africans. The bell curve distribution for whites may be longer at both (more body type variance in general) but not thicker at either end. At least that's what anthropologists believe. Americans and Brits once produced a good flow of 2:10 or better marathoners or those capable of a sub 2:10. Running under 2:10 will still win you quite a few international marathons. Add a drop of EPO here and there and we've got a good stream of 2:06's. The 2:10 marathoners of the 80s would most likely run 2:08 or better today simply because that is what it would take to win, so that is how they would train. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
Re: t-and-f: Return to the Real World
Roger Ruth wrote: When I saw his subject heading, I thought that Bob Hersh was signaling a return of the t-and-f list to the real world of an unmonitored status that wouldn't require every message being approved by a monitor/supervisor before it could be processed by the University of Oregon server. As it turned out, his message had a different referent. Coincidentally, though, it seems to have been only the second post to have been accepted under apparent new guidelines that return us to our earlier status. I'm sure Bob would join me in my thanks to the U of O for a new chance. I hope, too, that all list subscribers would join in appreciation to Fred Finke, who had to deal with the immediate crisis of our being denied access to the U of O server, and, especially, to Charles Wandler, who single-handledly took on the role of list monitor and kept us on-line until a new agreement could be reached. Many thanks to Fred and Charles and any nameless others who put this list back in business! Cheers! I got more work done, but I missed it just the same. Thanks again. John
Re: t-and-f: Why we question Chinese marks
Richard McCann wrote: Something was wrong in Beijing in 1993, but we really don't know what. RMc The marks were fast because they laid the new track over an existing track which had a curb. Screwed up everything. Joking. JL
Re: t-and-f: Supplements and The list
Go for it Darrell!! Conway Hill wrote: Funny ... I started this thread because I saw the show on television and saw it as an opportunity to say that "people in the sport are not cheating" ... And that a lot of negativity that has fallen on the sport in the past couple of years may have indeed been misdirected ... But somehow we continue to find a way to put things in a negative light when it comes to the sport of track and field ... I think we all know that athletes get much more exercise, are under much more physical stress, and place much more burden on their bodies than the average person ... As such the "average daily requirements" that the average slug American needs are going to be inadequate for a high school athlete, let alone a collegiate or elite athlete ... What I would like to know - from someone on the list with more medical/nutritional background - is just how much more vitamins, minerals, etc does the elite athlete need ... And what would be the best / optimal method of obtaining them ??? Like "the force" this list can be used both positively and negatively ... Let's try to stay away from the "dark side" of the force and use the force for good ... Conway >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: t-and-f: Supplements and The list >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:22:22 EDT > >Actually you agree with me. Your argument is full of what if's. The facts >are opposite of what you write. If people ate fresh foods. If they did not >eat fast foods. People do eat processed foods. They love fast foods. >I will take it a step further, anyone ever travel on the European circuit? >You ever eat the food they provide? If for no other reason than to make it >through the circuit, athletes need to supplement their diets. > >But here we are. Fresh off of Texas relays, and the hot topic is >supplements, and the possibility that athletes may be trying to cheat by >taking them. Is there a real interest in track on this list? ( And no I am >not leaving, that is the way of weak people) > >DGS >Faith is a road seldom traveled >Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, >the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2 > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: 60 Minutes II Tonight
Check the times in your area.
Re: t-and-f: Re: Supplements and The list
Mcewen, Brian T wrote: It is my understanding that it is difficult to get enough of certain vitamins such as C and E from food alone, especially for those under stress, such as highly trained athletes. Something to consider: 10,000 years ago, before SUV's roamed the earth and long before anyone had ever seen a Vitamin C tablet ... there were STILL humans walking around, and they STILL needed to have vitamins in their bodies to live and thrive. If those humans could not get enough simple vitamin nutrition from the foods they ate ... why are there still humans walking around NOW? And for those who say MORE vitamins, minerals and calories are NECESSARY especially for those under stress ... How much stress do you think those humans were under compared to the typical athlete today? How do you think their lifestyle affected their nutritional needs? Answer: The Man from 8000 B.C. probably had higher nutritional requirements due to the constant stress of work, survival, and battling the rigors of life. No contest. I would rather be the Mercedes-driving, latte-sipping, massage-getting, 3-squares-day athlete from 2001 than the man from 8000 B.C. These guys also lived to ripe old age of-32. JL
Re: t-and-f: Fullerton humor
If the Fullerton coach posts his workouts, and the workout calls for a lap recovery, what does that mean? Malmo can you help? JL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To answer why basketball players are called cagers, I looked up the answer.Professional basketball began (1896) in New York City and was at one time played on courts enclosed by wire mesh (basketball players are still occasionally referred to as cagers).To my knowledge college hoops didn't have cages, but the name stuck anyway.AllenI'll just ditto on the DGS line.Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:23:10 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Fullerton humor - --part1_3b.12c457f2.27fd310e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Basketball player were called cagers. Steve
Re: t-and-f: DGs and his scriptures
Jimmy, After reading some of the stuff that gets posted on this list, I need all the uplifting I can get. Obviously it didn't work on you. Are you getting the same rains that Austin is getting? Jim McLatchie wrote: DGS needs to leave the scriptures off his comments. If he/we need spiritual uplifting then another avenue of information needs to be explored. Of course, anytime his name pops up one can always - DELETE, DELETE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]">Who took the bronze in that race? And what was the time? I know Joe and Carl, but who took third? Faith is a road seldom traveled Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12: 1-2
Re: t-and-f: Track accuracy
OR the Net Dan Kaplan wrote: Never trust what you read in the paper. ;-) Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was an article in the Oregonian newspaper today about the track at Willamette University in Salem. During some recent work to the track they discovered that each lap was actually 406m. The steeplechase was the only event that was accurately measured. No one is sure when the mistake was made, but it has probably been like that for some time. Just made me wonder how many other tracks like that are around. Matthew = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
t-and-f: Wether it's weather...
I have observed distance runners for several decades and have wondered how one could predict which talented youngsters would succeed. Ignoring Mr. Dan Wilson's' warning that correlation does indicate cause, may I offer the following as factors which may cause a coach to pay more attention to a particular recruit;1)parents-too stuborn,stupid, or lazy to move to a more friendly climate,sometimes this is disguised as discipline, 2)demons-they must be in there somewhere, running is the path to finding them,3)genetic tie to alcohol problems- look at the Irish, American Indians, and Kenyans,4)smarts-slow to figure out that the faster you run, the more it hurts,and 5)impressinable-must be led to believe that all this work will pay off in time. Of course, if a coach doesn't like these factors, he can look for a kid who has been raised in a commune, plays the bongos,listens to the trees, and runs really really fast. Smile, John
Re: t-and-f: Talking Cross
I was impressed by several items. First, I didn't notice many runners who doubled. Second, it's nice to see a set of brothers made the team, Matt Downin in the long race and Andy in the short course. Third, Greg Jimerson finished fourth in the 12K. The impressive showing by Greg is that he puts in his miles on top of a 40 - 50 hour week at a real job. I'm sure that others do this as well, but I don't know their story. Good luck to all at the World Championships. JL Brian McGuire wrote: And HOW ABOUT that meet last weekend in Fort Vancouver? Didn't get to see it myself, but sounds like it was a spectator friendly course (though 6 loops must've been tiresome to athletes). Notable performances: Deena Drossin grabs her third straight national title. Ho-hum. Regina Jacobs gets down and dirty. Too bad Drossin wasn't in the 4k, would've made a much more interesting race. Brad Hauser makes fourth straight national team (two in track, two in cross). "Pre-meet favorite" (at least judging by some news accounts and his confident statements) Bob Kennedy can only place fifth in 12k. Has the torch been officially been passed? Brian McGuire
Re: t-and-f: SACTO TRIALS: GOOD NOT SO GOOD
Mike, That part was fun. Everyone around us in good spirits after we all shifted down a row, or was it up a row? By the time you got a couple of hot dogs and went to the boys room a couple of times, you were friends. In my book they don't need to change anything and I'll return. JL mike fanelli wrote: The good news is that the Trials will be back in Sacto in '04...the bad news is that the Trials are back in Sacto in '04. While I am pleased to have the Trials in my Northern California backyard and by most accounts, last year's meet was outstanding, the seating situation basically sucked. By this I mean that the seating was so jam packed that once you made it to your seat, you were stuck. Getting up for a "beverage" or pit stop was damn near impossible...am hoping that the seating and enter/exit procedures are improved down the road. -MF * Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
Re: t-and-f: Short/Long course cross country
Bob, COOL! While you are down sizing cross country, why not do the same to track. Only 1 weight event. Heck they all spin now, so as long as they spin and have a weight they must be the same. Let's not water down the events. Same with the horizontal jumps. If you can jump once,you can jump 3 times. I say compromise -have the duo jump or call it the hop-step. Forget the long jump and the triple jump. Running? Forget the 100 and the 400. I'm tired of the talent being stretched to cover these events. The 200 says it all. No one knows what to make of the 800- throw it out. The 5000 and the 10,000 are the same people-chuck 'em. If they can't run the mile, they shouldn't be on the track. There is more to cross country than a long race on bumpy ground! John lehane wrote: I'm in full agreement. Cross country - one race, one champion. Beautiful simplicity. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ABOLISH THE 4K CROSS COUNTRY!!!
t-and-f: predictions
How about some brave souls out there showing their savvy by predicting the results of some of this weekends races? I'll stick my neck out and say that I'll pick Jason Pyrah over Benard Lagat in L.A. on Saturday. I have no clue about how fast. John
Re: t-and-f: /Wish list
List members will use their real names and tell us something about their background. John J. Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D W I G H T will make a triumphant return to the list. GH will send ONE email to the list that won't make people ponder his insanity. Upon further review, Daryl realizes that every single email sent to the list is not a personal attack of sprinting and HSI. In a surprising twist of faith, Mike Fanelli turns to race walking setting up a clash of the titans battle between himself and Michael Rohl for the last spot on the 2004 Olympic team. In a BIZARRE twist of fate, Conway Hill turns out to be none other than current 400 record holder Marita Koch. Strange indeed. But seriously folks... Repeat for Stanford? American Distance Runners making a comeback? High School Sub Four Minute Miler? High School Sub 8:40 32...errr...2 mile? Distance runners racing distance runners...instead of chasing rabbits and time. ...what a concept. Actual competition! Peace and love to all. AC
Re: t-and-f: National X-country championships
Bruce, Check it out because I think that Sunday gets you there a day late. JL Bruce Goodchild wrote: I live in Boston, and intend to watch the races this weekend in Franklin Park. I assume it is on Sunday; does anyone know what time it starts? Thanks, Bruce Goodchild Cambridge/Boston.
Re: t-and-f: Sorry, No Drug Content
alan tobin wrote: Everyone who wants to run great and be great should move into a cabin on the side of mountain and scrape by financially while running close to 200 miles a week. It's all about sacrifice and seeing how "poor" you are willing to live. Alan, I've been reading your posts on this list and TnF Media with some interest. I see that you are going to try a total commitment to running and that you link that commitment to "sacrifice". I'll share some observations with you which may save you some heartache; Your progress will go no further than what your spirit (heart) allows. If you view 100+ mile weeks as sacrifice and not enjoyment, the miles will be long. If your study of nutrition is boring rather than an interesting (if not fascinating), you will not make use of your findings. If getting 10 hours of sleep every day is not your idea of a good time, the miles will be even longer. If keeping your running log current is a chore and not the most important book (maybe 2nd) in the house, you are fooling yourself. In a race, you position yourself for your final effort, your kick. If you have a great kick, you might hang back and wait to make your move. If you have no kick, you push your pace to eliminate your competitors' kick. In training, you position your lifestyle to allow for the mileage, the workouts, and the recovery. If you view this lifestyle as sacrifice and not absolute necessity, your training will be short lived. Surround yourself with people of heart. Get a job where you are off of your feet. Go have some fun with no sacrifices. John ps In my younger days, I believed that I was a man (boy) of great discipline because everyone told me that I was. After I stopped running, I met the ultimate challenge; saying NO to the offer of a chocolate chip cookie. I failed, it was sacrifice.
Re: t-and-f: Message from GH the lurker
My wife wanted to get the ever popular magazine "Epitestosterone" so that she could be one of the girls. She had second thoughts when I told her that I would need to get SIX copies of Testosterone or we would be out of ratio and may get checked by the postal inspectors. Smiles, John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since all you guys want to talk about is stupid drug shit, you'll probably enjoy this, which is taken from www.testosterone.net http://t-mag.com/html/125game.html have fun! gh
Re: t-and-f: Finally
What has happened to Garry Hill? Is he mad at the list again? JL Conway wrote: Finally a little conversation on the list .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Suzy Hamilton Interview = High Anxiety
Doesn't this post finally say that we have carried the discussion too
far?
John Lunn
"P. N. Heidenstrom" wrote:
In trying to explain Suzy Hamilton's fall in the
1500 at the Sudney Olympics, someone suggested:
Apply Ocham's Razor, which states that
in nature the simplest explanation is
most often correct.
That's simplistic.
In simple terms, what Ockham said was that where
a number of separate phenomena are observed, if
all of them can be explained by making "n"
assumptions, and equally well explained by making
"n" assumptions, there is no reason to prefer
the greater number ("n").
It is not a way to prove anything - just an
obvious, commonsense way to choose between
ALTERNATIVE proofs, not conflicting proofs.
The principle applies only to multiple phenomena.
If all the runners in Hamilton's race at Sydney
had fallen in a similar way, then of course
everyone would have looked for a single explanation,
and not have bothered listening to a different
explanation for each runner. Ockham's Razor is
telling us we would be right, that's all.
In any case, there don't appear to be any two
commentators who agree on the reason for
Hamilton's fall, so there are no explanations to
choose between.
Re: t-and-f: (no subject)
With the tape delay anyone could be a "specialist". I impressed everyone with my knowledge of the trampoline. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/12/00 8:20:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just wanted to respond to your note below. I have just three questions for you: 1. Since when does a 3:57 1,500 meters equal mediocrity? 2. Who was the so called tarot card reading "distance specialist" you were watching the Woman's 1,500 meter with? ...And 3. Who the heck is Eddie Caine, Jr.? maddog I hate to rehash an old topic but I can't resist. Suzy Hamilton! I don't understand what the love affair (er, excuse affair) some people on this list have for the woman. I read some of the posts on this distance dominated list that downplay both sprints and sprinters yet most excuse gutsy little Suzy for what I consider to be a choke. She falls yet we forget about the fact that no one was around her when she dramatically fell to the ground. She gets up, makes it through the finish line only to fall out after about five more steps. Is this becoming a pattern? Nike pumps all this money into her for what (not trying to be sarcastic)? I don't believe any of us are rushing to the mall to buy some shoes because she wears them so the marketing aspect excuse may now exit via the toilet. I was watching the 1500 with a distance specialist that predicted she would fall BEFORE she did. I can't say how alarming I found that. Not to mention the poor medicine excuse. I am starting to see that in American we value and reward mediocrity on the world level in the distance events. Are we still paying athletes over 30 based on their potential? If so, let me dust off my old spikes! Sure beats the heck out of taking depositions all day. Wondering if I am the only one seeing these things, Edward Caine, Esq. You sure you want to hang with ol Eddie Caine, Jr.? - 1997
Re: t-and-f: Suzy Hamilton Interview = High Anxiety
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/12/00 7:18:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have also seen it in one or two sub 4:00 type miles - usually someone who was near the front and faded down the stretch while trying desperately to hang on. I have seen it in open and masters runners running between 4:15 and 4:30. And I have seen it in high school perhaps more than any other time, although I have watched a lot more high school miles than any other kind. If it is indeed more common in high school, does that suggest anything about its cause? - Ed Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would generally indicate a mental lapse more than a physical lapse. She may not have any more control of a mental breakdown than a physical breakdown. I don't fault her for that, what I do have a problem with is the search for an excuse. She will do her image more harm with these litany of supposed reasons. If it was me, I would simply state "I honestly fight with all I have, there comes a point when I am mentally done and my body fails." Mike Platt It is interesting to see how the various respondants react to the same piece of information. I read that she admitted to some mistakes, she is making plans to correct those mistakes, and she is looking toward the future.No excuses! She seems to have a much healthier attitude than most of those who post to this list. John Lunn
Re: t-and-f: Scientific Facts for Suzy
It is most interesting that there are types of "facts". Here we have" scientific" facts, others talk about " true" facts, and we have the ever present "known" fact. Is there a difference between these types of facts? I thought that science is a proceedure that one uses to reach a conclusion, but that the conclusion is not fact.Certainly the "facts" that I grew up with are not "facts" today. The fact is I love to watch Suzy run. John Lunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was passed on to me from Coach Jim Hunt, All American Long Distance Running Coach -- From "Dr. Hunt!" Bill, you asked for it. Suzy Favor Hamilton collapsed in the finals of the Olympic 1500 due to complete glycogen depletion. Suzy does not possess the basic speed that some of the other competitors possess. In order to run as fast as she was attempting to do, she had to run at a velocity that was too high of a percentage of her basic performance speed for too long. The glycogen demanded by her muscles to do the work that the brain was commanding of them was completely depleted. As to the dehydration effect, it takes 4 lb. of water to produce 1 lb. of glycogen. Oxygen must mix with glycogen in order to produce energy. Glycogen is stored in the liver, muscle cells and blood stream and must receive oxygen in the amount demanded by the working muscles to continue to work at a desired level. When stored glycogen is depleted, the body will attempt to make more. The process of making glycogen requires a large quantity of water which would lead to further dehydration. In addition to the depletion of fluid, her body could not deliver sufficient oxygen to produce the muscular contractions that her central nervous system was commanding. Suzy could not extract enough oxygen from the air and deliver it to the working muscles in the amount necessary to be able to continue with the high rate of velocity that she needed to run. In Suzy's attempt to run for 4:00 at a velocity of 6.25 meters per second, complicated by the lack of body fluids, her heart rate soared to a new maximum causing her body temperature to rise to possibly as high as 105 degrees-106 degrees. Her body's cooling system was not prepared to dissipate this much heat. This high temperature coupled with the panic of seeing her competitors fly by her caused her body to go into traumatic shock. Traumatic shock causes the large arteries to expand, literally robbing the working muscles and the brain of oxygen carrying blood. When traumatic shock occurs, the mechanisms causes the body to go into a prone position in an attempt to restore oxygen to the brain. Once in a prone position, enough oxygen returned to her brain for her to muster the energy to stand up. Her tremendous desire to win had programmed her body to move forward to the finish line. When Suzy reached the finish line the energy again was completely depleted. At this point, her body's protective mechanisms caused her to collapse again into a prone position. After several minutes of intravenous fluids, electrolyte restoration she was able to quietly leave through the back door without any further assistance. This traumatic experience will most likely make it extremely difficult for Suzy to ever push her body hard enough again to get close to world record time. Her central nervous system will never forget the torture that her body went through and the protective organisms of her body will resist any attempt to duplicate this act in the future. Alberto Salazar was an exceptionally determined athlete who could withstand severe pain for long periods of time. He was able to force his body to work to near death in two separate marathons before his body said "no more, Al." Good luck Suzy. We all appreciate what you have done for track and field. "makes sense to me!" Bill "maddog" Scobey
Re: t-and-f: Larry Rawson
I would like to go on record as saying that I don't believe that this conversation ever took place. I have been a fan of Larry for years and have had a couple of e-mail exchanges with him. I have seen nothing in his personality which supports "track ever". If one wants to post this type of garbage on the net without signature, there are boards for such items. John Lunn Track Ever wrote: I ran into Larry Rawson recently and boy does he have a high impression of himself!!! He said how he has been the only consistant track and field TV reporter over the years. He said he should be doing the Olympics on NBC rather than the guys NBC is using. It was like he had the right to have the job. Then he want on to say that the guys they use, Tom Hammond, Dwight Stones, Lewis Johnson -- don't know nearly as much as he does about the sport. Jim Gray he said is simply a rich boy using his dad's influence to get work. I mean I don't think the NBC guys are GREAT, but I don't think they are the worse. I have seen Larry a few times on TV. Is he that good or does he just have a huge ego. This part I did find interesting because obviosuly he is close to the athletes -- he said he thinks most of the U.S. sprinters are on stuff -- he said track and field has become a medical experimentation ground and was very criticle of the HSI group. Be interested in hearing others' thought on all this. _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
t-and-f: High-Low
Trackos, Does anyone know if we have any Olympic team members, from the 1500m up, who used the "high-low" model for training. I know the obvious runners who trained at altitude. I'm not aware of any runners who went to low altitude for speed work before trials. Thanks! John
Re: t-and-f: SHOCKER! Oly sites switched
So the winner gets thrice penalized. RT wrote: The Utah Host Committee has also announced a bonus to be awarded to all male medalists: Gold Medal winners get to take 3 wives home with them, courtesy of the citizens of Utah. Silver Medal winners get awarded 2 wives. Bronze Medal winners have to made do with just one new wife. Female medal winners don't get anything extra, but if you're female and you DON'T win a medal, you're subject to name draw by computer to go into a pool as a possible award to the male medal winners. The Australians are busy trying to figure out how to tax these "awards" along with the cash bonuses. RT --Original Message-- From: "Tom Derderian" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: August 18, 2000 4:02:03 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: SHOCKER! Oly sites switched And all track races will be run clockwise. Timing will be done with watches set on countdown starting at the current world's record. Results will be reported in seconds plus or minus the record time. Athletes world wide welcome this liberation from the tyranny of tradition. Socks worn must be of opposing colors and each athlete must carry his or her country's flag at all times. TD -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: SHOCKER! Oly sites switched Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2000, 11:44 AM LAUSANNE, SWITZERLAND (Rooters)--IOC officials today announced that due to current weather patterns (94 degrees F in Salt Lake City yesterday, snow in the Blue Mountains outside Sydney earlier in the week) that the USOC and AOC had brokered a deal whereby the 2000 Summer Olympics will be held in Utah, with the 2002 Winter version moving Down Under. "This is great news," said IOC head Juan Antonio Samaranch. "My doctors recently told me I had to stop drinking wine and this change of venues will be just what the doctor ordered." Full details at http://itsnotapril1butthelistneededsomelevity.com gh
Re: t-and-f: FWD: The system, Not an answer.
R.T., Sometimes you guys pick apart what a man says and completely miss the intent. What Malmo is saying is correct: Put the athletes on the track, shoot the gun, stay out of the way, pick the top 3 places(or 4), and go home. JL "R.T." wrote: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:54:59 -0700, you wrote: I've always had wild idea that was what the sport was always about. Sadly, on a daily basis, I'm reminded that others reject my bizzarre theory. malmo The system needs to learn to recognize that who beats whom is more important than the time. gh Who can't just beat any whom for the victory to be important. It's gotta be a whom with an impressive PR. Or a who who's beat other whom's who had impressive PRs. There's plenty of whoms that get beat all the time- victories over those whoms don't impress many people. Times (or distances) allow us to gauge the degree of importance of victories and losses. RT
t-and-f: Nacht van de Atletiek
http://users.skynet.be/avthasselt/nacht/nva.htm Title: Nacht van de Atletiek - Nacht van de Atletiek - 5 aug. 2000 Voorprogramma Hoofdprogramma Nachtprogramma Meetingrecords Jeugdprogramma 1000 meterBen Dames Uur:15:09 Reeks:1 1 1009 VANTHILLO BRITT 3:22.32 91 ESAK 2 1013 BRYS SOFIE 3:31.13 91 ACW 3 1004 VEKEMANS PAULIEN 3:34.30 91 DUFF 4 1005 JACOBS SOFIE 3:34.64 91 DUFF 5 1010 HENS EVY 3:34.77 91 ESAK 6 1006 VERBEECK TATJANA 3:36.68 91 BETA 7 1007 VANDEBROEK ELYNE 3:37.17 91 BETA 8 1014 CHARIFI SOUMAYA 3:37.21 92 ACW 9 1011 VAN PUYVELDE EVA 3:37.63 91 SPBO 10 1015 BOSMANS KIM 3:39.10 91 AVT 11 1001 VAN HESSCHE HANNE 3:42.96 91 ASVO 12 1008 JANSSEN JILL 3:44.67 92 SACN 13 1012 MARECHAL DAVINA 3:55.16 91 MALM 14 1002 TUTS CHRISTINE 3:55.24 91 ACA 15 1016 CLEEREN ILSE 4:09.72 91 AVT 1000 meterBen Dames Uur:15:09 Reeks:1 1 1009 VANTHILLO BRITT 3:22.32 91 ESAK 2 1013 BRYS SOFIE 3:31.13 91 ACW 3 1004 VEKEMANS PAULIEN 3:34.30 91 DUFF 4 1005 JACOBS SOFIE 3:34.64 91 DUFF 5 1010 HENS EVY 3:34.77 91 ESAK 6 1006 VERBEECK TATJANA 3:36.68 91 BETA 7 1007 VANDEBROEK ELYNE 3:37.17 91 BETA 8 1014 CHARIFI SOUMAYA 3:37.21 92 ACW 9 1011 VAN PUYVELDE EVA 3:37.63 91 SPBO 10 1015 BOSMANS KIM 3:39.10 91 AVT 11 1001 VAN HESSCHE HANNE 3:42.96 91 ASVO 12 1008 JANSSEN JILL 3:44.67 92 SACN 13 1012 MARECHAL DAVINA 3:55.16 91 MALM 14 1002 TUTS CHRISTINE 3:55.24 91 ACA 15 1016 CLEEREN ILSE 4:09.72 91 AVT 1000 meterPup Dames Uur:15:29 Reeks:1 1 1113 VAN LOOY KATRIEN 3:15.44 89 ACHL 2 1115 VAN BRUSSEL TATJANA 3:18.40 89 AVLO 3 1109 DE BROUWER BARBARA 3:18.79 89 OB 4 1101 DE WAEL ELS 3:23.01 90 AVLO 5 1103 SEN YASMIN 3:23.34 90 DUFF 6 1107 BELIS LORE 3:24.57 89 DUFF 7 1108 JACOBS MARGIT 3:24.98 89 MACD 8 VERJANS INEZ 3:25.05 89 ACA 9 1105 SEN LYNN 3:29.88 90 DUFF 10 1112 VAN ROS LONNEKE 3:30.89 89 NED 11 1116 VISSERS ANJA 3:31.35 89 AVT 12 1106 MEIRE MIEKE 3:33.22 89 OB 13 1102 BAUTERS JANNA 3:35.82 90 ASVO 14 1104 VANPARYS PETRA 3:37.25 90 OB 15 1119 FEYEN GWENDOLIEN 3:37.63 89 AVT 16 1110 KRAUSE KAREN 3:38.24 89 AVT 17 513 DE BRAUWER BRITT 3:38.59 90 OB 18 1117 VELTJEN STEFANIE 3:42.07 90 AVT 1000 meterPup Heren Uur:15:31 Reeks:1 1 1160 SCHILDERMANS ROY 3:08.66 89 SACN 2 1156 VAN DE PUT THOMAS 3:10.37 89 DUFF 3 1154 MORTELMANS MAARTEN 3:11.70 89 ABES 4 1151 VANSTREELS DIETER 3:14.50 90 DUFF 5 1153 VANOVERBEKE NICK 3:14.94 90 ACA 6 1152 WYNS NILS 3:17.53 90 DUFF 7 1159 DOPS DENNIS 3:17.71 89 ATLA 8 1155 VOLKAERTS WARD 3:17.80 89 DUFF 9 1161 VAN EYNDE PIETER-JAN 3:22.17 89 DCLA 10 1163 VAN GAUWBERGEN JAN 3:22.84 90 AVT 11 1158 VRYSEN VINCENT 3:34.26 89 AVT 12 1018 HENDRIX STIJN 3:35.69 89 AVT 13 1157 LINDEN BRECHT 3:35.88 89 AVT 1000 meterMin Dames Uur:15:48 Reeks:1 1 1211 VAN LOOY JESSICA 3:07.49 88 ACHL 2 1208 TRUYERS ROELINDE 3:08.42 87 DUFF 3 1216 SERVAIS LAETITIA 3:09.08 88 MALM 4 1218 MAVEAU BARBARA 3:10.84 87 MACI 5 1204 MERTENS NATHALIE 3:11.12 87 DUFF 6 1219 SMET ANNELIES 3:11.55 87 AVT 7 1203 VAN DE VELDE HAIKE 3:12.17 87 ASVO 8 1214 VAN EYNDE SARAH 3:14.44 87 DCLA 9 1212 RENDERS MIRANDA 3:15.10 87 NED 10 1217 DEFOUR SASCHA 3:15.76 88 AVT 11 1210 RENDERS SANNE 3:17.08 87 ACHL 12 1205 EERDEKENS ELS 3:17.33 88 BREE 13 1201 VANDE WALLE HEIDI 3:20.34 88 ASVO 14 1202 STORMS HANNELORE 3:21.12 88 DUFF 15 1209 VAN HENTENRYK ANS 3:21.17 88 BETA 16 1220 VAN WALLENDAEL KIM 3:21.20 87 KAPE 17 1207 VAN BALEN VEERLE 3:21.70 87 NED 18 1206 BOLLEN ELLEN 3:27.29 87 ATLA 19 1213 KONIJNENBURG MEREL 3:29.26 88 NED 20 1215 DIFFELS LAURIE 3:36.65 87 MALM 1000 meterMin Heren Uur:15:49 Reeks:1 1 1256 LAERTE KEVIN 2:48.70 87 DUFF 2 1258 DEBATY BRICE
