RE: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
Interesting story. I was only 10 years old at the time but I still remember reading about it. I remember seeing Jim Ryun get tripped in a preliminary round and then not allowed to advance even though he finished, a practice that I hope has come to an end. I remember Bob Seagran not being allowed to use his poles. I remember the imposter who showed up to steal glory from Shorter. Do you think there was any anti-American sentiment involved? It sure looks that way. -Original Message- From: Ed Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:46 PM To: Ray Cook Subject: Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars - Original Message - From: Ray Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars Hey...does anybody know how Robert Taylor managed to get the correct information but the Hart and Robinson didn't? Taylor didn't get the message any earlier; he was lucky enough to get there just in time, after the U.S. learned of the mistake. There was another factor in all this which no one ever mentions. One of the other two, I think it was Robinson,m had pulled up at the end of his heat in an earlier round and there was a question as to whether he would be ready. When he failed to appear---he was the first listed to run---we figured he was unable to run. It was only when the second runner also failed to appear that it became apparent there was something wrong. I was not covering the meet on a daily basis, but was with Hy Goldberg when we got back to the village. He had been hired that day by AP after his paper went down the drain the day before. When we got to the village, I accompanied him to the US headquarters and, when he went in to inquire about the injured runner, I walked over to the Irish rooms to see Mike Keoigh, a NJ lad who was running for his native country in the 5K. I was a few steps behind Stan Wright as I walked and almost caught up to ask him, just casually, whether Robinson (as I think it was) would be ready for the next round; hbut I figured he had enough on his mind and didn't. My question would probably have been phrased: will be he ready by 3 p,m.? What would have ensued i have no idea. The Irish headquarters, by the way, had the proper schedule posted on the inside of its front foor Ed Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars Greetings, all Buried in the results of last weekend's Modesto Relays is this intriguing 100: Men 100 Meter Dash MASTERS NameYear School Finals Wind = 1 Kevin Morning Unattached 11.25 2.8 2 Greg Turner Unattached 11.35 2.8 3 Eddie Hart Unattached 11.47 2.8 4 Peter Grimes Unattached 11.59 2.8 5 J. Smith Unattached 11.73 2.8 6 Calvin CarterUnattached 13.33 2.8 7 Martin Adamson Unattached 14.18 2.8 8 Benson Ford Unattached 14.61 2.8 -- Hubert Evans Unattached DNF 2.8 If this is THE Eddie Hart of Munich fame (or infamy), we're talking some incredible sprinting. Eddie just turned 55! Here's Eddie's bio on Mirko's site: http://www.tilastopaja.net/db/atm.asp?ID=11865 For you youngsters, here's a summary (copied from Web) of Eddie's Olympic nightmare: Eddie Hart and Rey Robinson had both been timed at 9.9 sec in the US trials and were regarded as the only men capable of beating the great Russian Valery Borzov. All three won their first-round heats in the morning, but there was no sign of Hart or Robinson as the 4.15pm start time approached for the second round. Their coach, Stan Wright, working from an 18-month-old preliminary schedule, thought their races were at 7pm and Robinson was just leaving the village three-quarters of a mile from the track when he saw on an ABC-TV monitor the very heat in which he was supposed to be running. Only the third and least fancied American, Robert Taylor, arrived in time for his heat. He went on to finish second in the final behind Borzov, who won the gold in 10.14 sec. Me again: 11.47 (albeit wind-aided) is amazing for M55. The listed world record is 11.57 by Briton Ron Taylor in 1991. Eddie is not a stranger to masters (except for past 10 years). He ran a 10.87 for an American M40 record in 1989. If Eddie is in fact back, welcome, Champ
Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
Interesting story. I was only 10 years old at the time but I still remember reading about it. I remember seeing Jim Ryun get tripped in a preliminary round and then not allowed to advance even though he finished, a practice that I hope has come to an end. I remember Bob Seagran not being allowed to use his poles. I remember the imposter who showed up to steal glory from Shorter. Do you think there was any anti-American sentiment involved? It sure looks that way. If you're taking these together as evidence, perhaps it might look that way. You forgot one- the American basketball loss to the Russians when the clock was re-set what, three times? The question is, were there other controversies in '72 where rulings were a lot more flexible than rulings toward the Americans? Or are we ignoring those and 'cherry-picking' examples to make a case? I'm not sure. But as for the examples it might help to look at each individual case. Ryun falling. Ryun himself has said that he tripped 'on a beam of light'. He himself doesn't blame the African runner- Billy something I think was his name. Ryun wasn't even sure they made contact. The film videotape record is inconclusive. Ryun basically blames himself. In any case, the international standard then as now for 'allowable level of contact' in a race is a lot more conducive in allowing bumping and touching than comparable American standards. So, IF the IOC found that no other runner 'fouled' Ryun (subjecting them to a DQ), what would be the basis for them advancing Ryun to the next round? * Felt sorry for him? People fall down all the time in big meets. You couldn't advance people based on feeling sorry for them because subjectivity comes into play- if somebody falls down that you basically detest you could then rationalize that 'he had it coming to him anyway'. * World Record holder? So what's the point of having qualifying rounds? If you're a world record holder you automatically get a bye into the finals. That's basically what this basis would be saying. It would then mean if a WR holder fell behind in a qualifying race and knew he couldn't move up enough to make the cut, he could just fall down, knowing he'd likely get an automatic advancement. Horrible precedent. * IOC should be more friendly to athletes coming from countries where the officiating standards are a little different? So what's the point of having a single international rulebook? *Bob Seagren's poles. I'm trying to remember the particulars. Of all the rulings in '72 this was the one I had the most problem with. It had to do with the pole Seagren was using being on the approved list. There was something about the pole having to have been available worldwide at least 12 months prior to the Games (so as to theoretically ensure an equal playing field). There was a big on-the-field argument about whether the 12 month requirement had been met- something that probably needed some analysis about just HOW widely it had been available in those 12 prior months. But my problem was with how it was enforced. There was every indication that with Seagren being the 'hottest vaulter in the world', the Games officials decided beforehand that they were gonna go after Seagren on the pole rule, but they kept it a secret. Then when all the vaulters were out on the field warming up with their poles, they made a big live-on-TV to-do about declaring Seagren a 'cheater' and demanded that he surrender the poles right there. Obviously had the concern been communicated to him months earlier, he could have trained on other poles and brought them with him. After a big argument he surrended the poles to IAAF head Adrian Paulen, borrowed an unfamiliar one from another vaulter, and still got the silver after being a huge gold medal favorite beforehand. So my problem may not be so much with the basis for the ruling, but the procedure which the officials chose to follow. It was an obvious case of intentionally holding back a ruling until the worst possible time, in order to embarass an athlete and make it almost impossible for the athlete to to find a way to comply and compete. They intended to force Seagren to drop out by taking away his poles and leaving him 'pole-less' with no time left for Seagren to find an alternative means of competing. That another vaulter came to his help is something they didn't figure on.. It was obviously 'targeting Seagren' in my book- but it might be more because he was 'on top' rather than just because he was an American. Fortunately, SOME lessons were learned- many of the implement approval procedures we have today seem exceedingly bureaucratic and complicated, but they're a direct result of the Seagren fiasco. I think until after '72, while the rule said something about 12-month prior availability, the IAAF was not in the business of publishing an official approved list, making possible on-the-field dirty dealing like happened to Seagren. Now we have approved lists up the
Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
...another conspiracy theory dashed... mitchell clair wrote: He didn't--his heat was just later. If I recall, He ran it in someone else's spikes that were like 2 sizes too big. [Original Message] From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/14/2004 11:28:56 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars I don't know for sure, but I have a theory.
Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
... and, pun intended? ...another conspiracy theory dashed... mitchell clair wrote: He didn't--his heat was just later. If I recall, He ran it in someone else's spikes that were like 2 sizes too big. [Original Message] From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/14/2004 11:28:56 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars I don't know for sure, but I have a theory.
RE: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
Hey...does anybody know how Robert Taylor managed to get the correct information but the Hart and Robinson didn't? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars Greetings, all Buried in the results of last weekend's Modesto Relays is this intriguing 100: Men 100 Meter Dash MASTERS NameYear School Finals Wind = 1 Kevin Morning Unattached 11.25 2.8 2 Greg Turner Unattached 11.35 2.8 3 Eddie Hart Unattached 11.47 2.8 4 Peter Grimes Unattached 11.59 2.8 5 J. Smith Unattached 11.73 2.8 6 Calvin CarterUnattached 13.33 2.8 7 Martin Adamson Unattached 14.18 2.8 8 Benson Ford Unattached 14.61 2.8 -- Hubert Evans Unattached DNF 2.8 If this is THE Eddie Hart of Munich fame (or infamy), we're talking some incredible sprinting. Eddie just turned 55! Here's Eddie's bio on Mirko's site: http://www.tilastopaja.net/db/atm.asp?ID=11865 For you youngsters, here's a summary (copied from Web) of Eddie's Olympic nightmare: Eddie Hart and Rey Robinson had both been timed at 9.9 sec in the US trials and were regarded as the only men capable of beating the great Russian Valery Borzov. All three won their first-round heats in the morning, but there was no sign of Hart or Robinson as the 4.15pm start time approached for the second round. Their coach, Stan Wright, working from an 18-month-old preliminary schedule, thought their races were at 7pm and Robinson was just leaving the village three-quarters of a mile from the track when he saw on an ABC-TV monitor the very heat in which he was supposed to be running. Only the third and least fancied American, Robert Taylor, arrived in time for his heat. He went on to finish second in the final behind Borzov, who won the gold in 10.14 sec. Me again: 11.47 (albeit wind-aided) is amazing for M55. The listed world record is 11.57 by Briton Ron Taylor in 1991. Eddie is not a stranger to masters (except for past 10 years). He ran a 10.87 for an American M40 record in 1989. If Eddie is in fact back, welcome, Champ! Keep on trackin' Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
I don't know for sure, but I have a theory. Ray Cook wrote: Hey...does anybody know how Robert Taylor managed to get the correct information but the Hart and Robinson didn't? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars Greetings, all Buried in the results of last weekend's Modesto Relays is this intriguing 100: Men 100 Meter Dash MASTERS NameYear School Finals Wind = 1 Kevin Morning Unattached 11.25 2.8 2 Greg Turner Unattached 11.35 2.8 3 Eddie Hart Unattached 11.47 2.8 4 Peter Grimes Unattached 11.59 2.8 5 J. Smith Unattached 11.73 2.8 6 Calvin CarterUnattached 13.33 2.8 7 Martin Adamson Unattached 14.18 2.8 8 Benson Ford Unattached 14.61 2.8 -- Hubert Evans Unattached DNF 2.8 If this is THE Eddie Hart of Munich fame (or infamy), we're talking some incredible sprinting. Eddie just turned 55! Here's Eddie's bio on Mirko's site: http://www.tilastopaja.net/db/atm.asp?ID=11865 For you youngsters, here's a summary (copied from Web) of Eddie's Olympic nightmare: Eddie Hart and Rey Robinson had both been timed at 9.9 sec in the US trials and were regarded as the only men capable of beating the great Russian Valery Borzov. All three won their first-round heats in the morning, but there was no sign of Hart or Robinson as the 4.15pm start time approached for the second round. Their coach, Stan Wright, working from an 18-month-old preliminary schedule, thought their races were at 7pm and Robinson was just leaving the village three-quarters of a mile from the track when he saw on an ABC-TV monitor the very heat in which he was supposed to be running. Only the third and least fancied American, Robert Taylor, arrived in time for his heat. He went on to finish second in the final behind Borzov, who won the gold in 10.14 sec. Me again: 11.47 (albeit wind-aided) is amazing for M55. The listed world record is 11.57 by Briton Ron Taylor in 1991. Eddie is not a stranger to masters (except for past 10 years). He ran a 10.87 for an American M40 record in 1989. If Eddie is in fact back, welcome, Champ! Keep on trackin' Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars
He didn't--his heat was just later. If I recall, He ran it in someone else's spikes that were like 2 sizes too big. [Original Message] From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/14/2004 11:28:56 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars I don't know for sure, but I have a theory. Ray Cook wrote: Hey...does anybody know how Robert Taylor managed to get the correct information but the Hart and Robinson didn't? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Eddie Hart returns to sprint wars Greetings, all Buried in the results of last weekend's Modesto Relays is this intriguing 100: Men 100 Meter Dash MASTERS NameYear School Finals Wind = 1 Kevin Morning Unattached 11.25 2.8 2 Greg Turner Unattached 11.35 2.8 3 Eddie Hart Unattached 11.47 2.8 4 Peter Grimes Unattached 11.59 2.8 5 J. Smith Unattached 11.73 2.8 6 Calvin CarterUnattached 13.33 2.8 7 Martin Adamson Unattached 14.18 2.8 8 Benson Ford Unattached 14.61 2.8 -- Hubert Evans Unattached DNF 2.8 If this is THE Eddie Hart of Munich fame (or infamy), we're talking some incredible sprinting. Eddie just turned 55! Here's Eddie's bio on Mirko's site: http://www.tilastopaja.net/db/atm.asp?ID=11865 For you youngsters, here's a summary (copied from Web) of Eddie's Olympic nightmare: Eddie Hart and Rey Robinson had both been timed at 9.9 sec in the US trials and were regarded as the only men capable of beating the great Russian Valery Borzov. All three won their first-round heats in the morning, but there was no sign of Hart or Robinson as the 4.15pm start time approached for the second round. Their coach, Stan Wright, working from an 18-month-old preliminary schedule, thought their races were at 7pm and Robinson was just leaving the village three-quarters of a mile from the track when he saw on an ABC-TV monitor the very heat in which he was supposed to be running. Only the third and least fancied American, Robert Taylor, arrived in time for his heat. He went on to finish second in the final behind Borzov, who won the gold in 10.14 sec. Me again: 11.47 (albeit wind-aided) is amazing for M55. The listed world record is 11.57 by Briton Ron Taylor in 1991. Eddie is not a stranger to masters (except for past 10 years). He ran a 10.87 for an American M40 record in 1989. If Eddie is in fact back, welcome, Champ! Keep on trackin' Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx (TM) 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
