Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
In a message dated 10/9/01 11:52:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >In the old days farming skimmed away many of the better >athletes. I recall hearing an interview w/ Bob Feller in which he said he developed his basic core strength hefting hay bales all day as a youth. He said today's athletes lack this overall conditioning begun at an early age, and thus have to compensate w/ weights, stretching, etc. Jim Gerweck Running Times
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
If it hasn't already been said yet, I am sure Micky G was on the US Relay in Edmonton! Obviously, he played baseball too. Bob Bettwy Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] (703) 351-7266 FAX (703) 522-2891 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f-digest V1 #3828 -- Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:13:14 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree Alan wrote: >I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn >diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? I'm trying to figure out who the heck Micky G is. I'm stymied. ... Phil
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Almost Ed. In the old days farming skimmed away many of the better athletes. > -Original Message- > From: Edward Koch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:59 PM > To: Geoff Pietsch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree > > > One fact you missed that cuts the other way: In the old days, > baseball was the dominant team sport. Today, football and > basketball skims away many of the better athletes. > > Ed Koch > > > -Original Message- > From: Geoff Pietsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:52 AM > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree > > > >Concerning the alleged diminution of talent as the Major Leagues > >have expanded, Alan fails to note four major off-setting factors: > > (1)U.S. population also has grown very rapidly (150 million - 281 > million) > >- roughly 87% - since 1950, the same rate as the number of > teams (16 to > 30). > > (2)African-Americans weren't permitted to play until the > late '40s. > >Imagine how diluted the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they > >would be today without them. > > (3)Foreign athletes were almost unheard of. Again, imagine how > >diluted > the > >big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would be today without > >them. > > (4)Little League and most similar organized opportunities > for kids do > >develop skills didn't exist until the '50s or later, and > high school and > >college athletes didn't have the super-competitive > atmosphere of today, > with > >high profile national tournaments and the like. > > So the reality clearly is that competition today is far > better than > >it was in "the good old days". (For the record, I'm an > oldtimer - born > >in > '37 - > >but facts are facts.) > > Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL > >P.S. I, too wonder - and worry - about Bonds and andro. I > sure hope he > >is clean. He - and McGwire - are great athletes regardless, but it's > >pretty hard to root for someone (like McGwire) who benefits from > >performance-enhancing drugs. > > > > > >>From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Reply-To: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree > >>Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:52:10 + > >> > >>I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the > pitching wasn't > >>so damn diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have > hit? My guess > >>is that niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: > >> > >>There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only > 26. Say 15 > >>pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who > >>should be sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 > teams through > >>1960, 20 > through > >>1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke > loose. All > >>of the major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out > >>strings of 70+ seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 > teams and > >>see what happens or better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. > >> > >>Alan > >> > >> > >>> > >> > >>_ > >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >> > > > > > >_ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
GH you are so right it's sometimes just not called for. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:52:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "alan tobin" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I wonder if Barry is on nadro? >> > > how about an amendment to the list charter that anybody who scurrilously injects >drugs into an unrelated post be suspended? > > gh
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
One fact you missed that cuts the other way: In the old days, baseball was the dominant team sport. Today, football and basketball skims away many of the better athletes. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Geoff Pietsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:52 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >Concerning the alleged diminution of talent as the Major Leagues have >expanded, Alan fails to note four major off-setting factors: > (1)U.S. population also has grown very rapidly (150 million - 281 million) >- roughly 87% - since 1950, the same rate as the number of teams (16 to 30). > (2)African-Americans weren't permitted to play until the late '40s. >Imagine how diluted the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would >be today without them. > (3)Foreign athletes were almost unheard of. Again, imagine how diluted the >big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would be today without them. > (4)Little League and most similar organized opportunities for kids do >develop skills didn't exist until the '50s or later, and high school and >college athletes didn't have the super-competitive atmosphere of today, with >high profile national tournaments and the like. > So the reality clearly is that competition today is far better than it >was in "the good old days". (For the record, I'm an oldtimer - born in '37 - >but facts are facts.) > Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL >P.S. I, too wonder - and worry - about Bonds and andro. I sure hope he is >clean. He - and McGwire - are great athletes regardless, but it's pretty >hard to root for someone (like McGwire) who benefits from >performance-enhancing drugs. > > >>From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >>Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:52:10 + >> >>I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so >>damn >>diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that >>niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: >> >>There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 >>pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be >>sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through >>1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of >>the >>major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ >>seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or >>better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. >> >>Alan >> >> >>> >> >>_ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >> > > >_ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
If it's not illegal then who cares? Nadro is legal in baseball. There are many legal ways to enhance your performance. Just upping your vitamin intake will help your performance. There are many legal drugs at GNC that will help your performance. Competition today better? Maybe overall competition but the pitching sucks major ass mostly because there are too many pitchers in the big leagues who should be snuffing it out in the minors. Alan >From: "Geoff Pietsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:44:57 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [158.252.68.143] >Received: from 158.252.68.143 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with >HTTP;Tue, 09 Oct 2001 15:44:57 GMT > >Concerning the alleged diminution of talent as the Major Leagues have >expanded, Alan fails to note four major off-setting factors: > (1)U.S. population also has grown very rapidly (150 million - 281 >million) - roughly 87% - since 1950, the same rate as the number of teams >(16 to 30). > (2)African-Americans weren't permitted to play until the late '40s. >Imagine how diluted the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would >be today without them. > (3)Foreign athletes were almost unheard of. Again, imagine how diluted >the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would be today without >them. > (4)Little League and most similar organized opportunities for kids do >develop skills didn't exist until the '50s or later, and high school and >college athletes didn't have the super-competitive atmosphere of today, >with high profile national tournaments and the like. > So the reality clearly is that competition today is far better than it >was in "the good old days". (For the record, I'm an oldtimer - born in '37 >- but facts are facts.) > Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL >P.S. I, too wonder - and worry - about Bonds and andro. I sure hope he is >clean. He - and McGwire - are great athletes regardless, but it's pretty >hard to root for someone (like McGwire) who benefits from >performance-enhancing drugs. > > >>From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >>Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:52:10 + >> >>I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so >>damn >>diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that >>niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: >> >>There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 >>pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be >>sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 >>through >>1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of >>the >>major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ >>seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or >>better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. >> >>Alan >> >> >>> >> >>_ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >> > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Therefore I call for an allowance of 5.479% for altitude. >From: "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:58:40 > > >>Better yet! >>There needs to be an * next to this record to indicate an altitude >>allowance for >>the number of home runs hit in Denver against the Rockies. > > >Four of the 73 homeruns were hit at Coors Field > >Kurt Bray > > >_ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
>Better yet! >There needs to be an * next to this record to indicate an altitude >allowance for >the number of home runs hit in Denver against the Rockies. Four of the 73 homeruns were hit at Coors Field Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:52:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I wonder if Barry is on nadro? >> how about an amendment to the list charter that anybody who scurrilously injects drugs into an unrelated post be suspended? gh
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Alan wrote: >I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn >diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? I'm trying to figure out who the heck Micky G is. I'm stymied. >My guess is that >niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: >There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 >pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be >sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through >1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of the >major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ >seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or >better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. Sure - and back to the days when there were no blacks pitching in MLB, no Dominicans, no Asians. And 4 man rotations, with starters regularly logging 300+ innings per year. I suspect that the ball is juiced, and that some of the players are juiced, and that the strike zone is a joke. But the quality of major league pitching is extraordinarily high. Phil
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
The Willie Davis from Roosevelt HS, L.A. who jumped 25'3" in 1958 is one and the same Willie Davis of L.A. Dodger fame! Willie was First team All City in Basketball and Baseball. He played first base, centerfield and right field for Roosevelt and was the L.A. City Player of the Year in 1958. I have pictures of Willie Davis taken in our living room with his Player of the Year trophy. He was drafted by the Dodgers and sent to their Triple A club, the Albuquerque Dukes(?), where he played approximately 1 1/2 years before being called up by the Dodgers. Willie had pure speed as he also ran the 100 Yd Dash in 9.5, and around 21.0 for the 220 Yd Dash off of his baseball training! Gerald -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of malmo Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree Barry Bonds, who in 15 years averaged only 30 home runs per year with a best of 46 chose his parents well. Imagine if Bobby Bonds had hung in there for fifteen years. Would his "genes" then kick in too and result in a jump of 39'10 3/4"? malmo (it's OK to go to the calculator) > > I think I may have posted this to the list in the past, but > after sitting in the stands watching Bonds deposit 71 and 72 > on Friday night, and seeing on-screen views of his father all > weekend, I was reminded of our thread of where good talent goes. > > Dad, Bobby Bonds (Poly, Riverside, CA), was the national HS > long jump leader at 25-3 in '64, a mark which at the time > made him =No.3 on the all-time list. And dad's sister, Rosie, > finished 8th in the Olympics in the 80mH that year. > > Seems like Barry sprang from a pretty good gene pool. > > gh > > ps--the guy with whom Bobby was tied on the all-time list was > a Willie Davis of LA Roosevelt, 25-3 in '58. Any masters of > arcana out there who know if that's by any chance the same WD > who became great outfielder w/ the Dodgers just a few years later? >
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Concerning the alleged diminution of talent as the Major Leagues have expanded, Alan fails to note four major off-setting factors: (1)U.S. population also has grown very rapidly (150 million - 281 million) - roughly 87% - since 1950, the same rate as the number of teams (16 to 30). (2)African-Americans weren't permitted to play until the late '40s. Imagine how diluted the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would be today without them. (3)Foreign athletes were almost unheard of. Again, imagine how diluted the big leagues used to be, and how diluted they would be today without them. (4)Little League and most similar organized opportunities for kids do develop skills didn't exist until the '50s or later, and high school and college athletes didn't have the super-competitive atmosphere of today, with high profile national tournaments and the like. So the reality clearly is that competition today is far better than it was in "the good old days". (For the record, I'm an oldtimer - born in '37 - but facts are facts.) Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL P.S. I, too wonder - and worry - about Bonds and andro. I sure hope he is clean. He - and McGwire - are great athletes regardless, but it's pretty hard to root for someone (like McGwire) who benefits from performance-enhancing drugs. >From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree >Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:52:10 + > >I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so >damn >diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that >niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: > >There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 >pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be >sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through >1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of >the >major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ >seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or >better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. > >Alan > > >> > >_ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Better yet! There needs to be an * next to this record to indicate an altitude allowance for the number of home runs hit in Denver against the Rockies. alan tobin wrote: > I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn > diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that > niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: > > There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 > pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be > sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through > 1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of the > major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ > seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or > better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. > > Alan > > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
I wonder if Barry is on nadro? Or better yet, if the pitching wasn't so damn diluted what would either Barry or Micky G have hit? My guess is that niether would have topped 50. Ponder this: There are now 30 MLB teams. A few years ago there were only 26. Say 15 pitchers per team, that's an extra 45 pitchers in the majors who should be sucking it up in the minors. MLB had only 16 teams through 1960, 20 through 1969, 24 through 1977, 26 through 1993 when all hell broke loose. All of the major homerun hitters of yesteryear would be banging out strings of 70+ seasons. Go back to a MLB with only 20 or 24 teams and see what happens or better yet, all the way back to 16 *shudder*. Alan > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
>gh > >ps--the guy with whom Bobby was tied on the all-time list was a Willie Davis of LA >Roosevelt, 25-3 in 58. Any masters of arcanaa out there who know if that's by any >chance the same WD who became great outfielder w/ the Dodgers just a few years later? Well, the Willie Davis of L.A. Dodgers fame was born in 1940, which would probably put him dead on to indeed be a high school senior in '58...came up to the majors with the Dodgers at age 20 in '60...he was born in Arkansas, but that doesn't that mean that much...and he's still in the L.A. area, which although inconclusive says maybe he settled where his original roots were... ...there was also Willie Davis, pro-football hall-of-famer with the Green Bay Packers, but he was born in '34...and he was from Louisiana and went to Grambling... besides, Hall-of-Fame linemen weren't usually high school long jump stars :-) I vote for the baseball Willie Davis... ops, speaking of same...this would be humorous if it wasn't sad...check it out... http://archive.nandotimes.com/newsroom/ap/bbo/1996/mlb/lad/feat/archive/040996/lad55397.html RT
RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
Barry Bonds, who in 15 years averaged only 30 home runs per year with a best of 46 chose his parents well. Imagine if Bobby Bonds had hung in there for fifteen years. Would his "genes" then kick in too and result in a jump of 39'10 3/4"? malmo (it's OK to go to the calculator) > > I think I may have posted this to the list in the past, but > after sitting in the stands watching Bonds deposit 71 and 72 > on Friday night, and seeing on-screen views of his father all > weekend, I was reminded of our thread of where good talent goes. > > Dad, Bobby Bonds (Poly, Riverside, CA), was the national HS > long jump leader at 25-3 in '64, a mark which at the time > made him =No.3 on the all-time list. And dad's sister, Rosie, > finished 8th in the Olympics in the 80mH that year. > > Seems like Barry sprang from a pretty good gene pool. > > gh > > ps--the guy with whom Bobby was tied on the all-time list was > a Willie Davis of LA Roosevelt, 25-3 in '58. Any masters of > arcana out there who know if that's by any chance the same WD > who became great outfielder w/ the Dodgers just a few years later? >
t-and-f: Barry's pedigree
I think I may have posted this to the list in the past, but after sitting in the stands watching Bonds deposit 71 and 72 on Friday night, and seeing on-screen views of his father all weekend, I was reminded of our thread of where good talent goes. Dad, Bobby Bonds (Poly, Riverside, CA), was the national HS long jump leader at 25-3 in 64, a mark which at the time made him =No.3 on the all-time list. And dad's sister, Rosie, finished 8th in the Olympics in the 80mH that year. Seems like Barry sprang from a pretty good gene pool. gh ps--the guy with whom Bobby was tied on the all-time list was a Willie Davis of LA Roosevelt, 25-3 in 58. Any masters of arcanaa out there who know if that's by any chance the same WD who became great outfielder w/ the Dodgers just a few years later?
