Re: t-and-f: Vault question

2001-04-15 Thread mmrohl
Netters

Ed wrote:

> 
> OK, having been largely away from vault coaching for five years and
> having never coached women vaulters, I am always surprised when I hear
> how short the poles are that these women are holding.  It's not that
> theoretically a 13' pole is wrong for clearing 13' - technically that
> makes sense.  But I can rarely remember ever seeing a high school boy
> with a PR in the 12'6 to 14'  range vaulting on anything less than 14'
> foot pole and usually it's more like 14'6 or 15'.

Ed, as you know I am coaching H.S. vaulters  right now.  I have one going 14-6, two more at  13, and two more at 12.  All holding on 14 foot  poles and the big guy on a 14-7. One other  just got on a 14-6 long pole yesterday.   I have  been working with them all season to work on  the "flyaway stage," something they never did  before.  And we have worked very hard on the  inversion.  Their idea before I got there was  just get on the biggest pole they could and go  for heights everyday.  That seems to be the  idea that most of the H.S. coaches have  around here.  That is not my idea though. I  want my guys clearing 13 on 12-6 pole and I  make them do it.  They hate it but I make them  do it anyways.   

Now, the reason I have them do this is  because the first vaulters I ever talked to  about vaulting were the women.  In 98 I met  Stacy for the first time at Milrose.  That was  before she was the super star she is now of  course.  I had no idea who she was and when  she said she was a vaulter I began asking her  questions about vaulting.  Stacy, as many of  you know, is just a great person and was more  then happy to talk about vaulting.  I had just  started coaching vault that year at U.W. Eau  Claire, so was trying to learn what ever I could.  I began to watch the vaulting more closely  trying to learn what ever I could.  I figured  since I was coaching 14 foot college men and  8 foot college women I would learn more by  watching the women.  
Last year while watching the women's  Olympic Trials I commented to a fellow next  to me that I thought the women seemed to  have better inversion and rise then the men.   This fellow, whose name I can't recall, was the  coach of someone out there.  He agreed and  said it had been commented among vault  coaches that this was indeed was the case.   I  decided to put my mind to the case as to why  this might be.

Here is what I came up with. It may be that  women have a lower center of gravity and  many of the female vaulters are pretty short  compared to the men.  I think that the lower  center allows the women to have a smoother  break to inversion.  The women certainly get  closer to the pole then the men. I think it is the  reverse of why most women don't walk up a  ladder carrying a load the way men can.  I  think the second part is that the women are  not as fast on the same size pole as a man so  they have to have perfect take off position.   Stacy said the one of the critical elements to  her learning to vault was making sure that her  trail leg - or the "keel leg" as I call it - was  really extended so that her coach could read  the letters on the bottom of her shoe.   The  slowest vaulter I have, is the one who jumps  the highest. He also has a low center of  gravity.  His take off position is dead on and  he has really taken to the idea of riding the  pole up and allowing himself to become  almost completely inverted before turning.   Now the fastest kid I have practically kills  himself (I mean that literally he makes my  stomach turn so bad I go through a bottle of  pink stuff each meet).  He just rushes all the  movement because he his so fast into the  box.  Back to Stacy now.  I talked to her this  year again at Milrose.  I asked her thoughts on  the question of the better inversion and rise  that the women get.  She agreed that she felt  the lower center of gravity was a  plus for her.   She also thought that the men (elite men)  relied to much on speed and big poles and  sacrificed technique.  
In any case, I'm not an expert in the event  by any means so I might be way off base and  if anyone has any other ideas let me know.   Especially if anyone as an idea of how I might  be able to get one of my guys to stop sitting  over the bar.  He has perfect inversion on rock  backs and straight pole drills but once he  bends the pole he locks that bottom elbow out  and then never unlocks it.  He is often doing a  straight knee drive over the bar!.  I have him  doing drills where all he is doing is driving that  bottom elbow and kicking too - which seems  to be helping but he is getting frustrated and  those drills are making him tired.  Any ideas  are welcome.


Happy Easter All.

Michael Rohl

(walker in exile coaching vaulters:)










t-and-f: Vault question

2001-04-14 Thread Ed Dana Parrot

 Becky Holliday, Clackamas Community COllege, jumped 13'7" 4.14 today to
raise
 here national record. She had the bar then raised to 4.30. She switched to
a
 13'6 145 MsStik Carbon. Raised her grip to 12'8" and had on VERY close
 attempt. It shall be next weekend when she is over the flu and full of
 strength.

OK, having been largely away from vault coaching for five years and having
never coached women vaulters, I am always surprised when I hear how short
the poles are that these women are holding.  It's not that theoretically a
13' pole is wrong for clearing 13' - technically that makes sense.  But I
can rarely remember ever seeing a high school boy with a PR in the 12'6 to
14'  range vaulting on anything less than 14' foot pole and usually it's
more like 14'6 or 15'.

My experience coaching high school boys would suggest that the best high
school girls would be using 14 foot poles and the best college women would
be using 14'6 or 15' poles.  I have had numerous young high school boys who
were lucky to run 14 seconds for 100 meters and bench 65 pounds who were
using 13' poles 5 pounds above their weight.  I have had many other
11'6'-13'6 types who used 14' poles and were 13 second 100m type runners and
100-110 lb bench press types.  For myself personally, I have never broken
12.5 and never benched over 130, but my best vaulting was done holding at
14'2 on a 15' pole rated exactly at my weight.

Again, there is no question that these vaulters would have had better
technique vaulting on poles that were 6" to 1' shorter.  But they could
vault higher in meets on longer poles, so that is what they used in meets.
Do all the best high school and college women have such good technique that
they WOULDN'T vault higher with longer poles?  Or is there some other reason
why your typical 120 lb high school freshman boy by the end of the season
seems to be able to get on the same length poles as the elite high school
girls?  These same freshmen generally get beaten by the best one or two girl
sprinters on most teams and certainly are not particularly strong.

- Ed Parrot