Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Read it again. The half was to cover taxes, his agent and additional expenses. I have no idea if the article is accurate or not. I suppose the Times gets it right once in a while. I was just merely responding to the ridiculous assertion that 250,000 per year wasn't really all that much money with a conservative analysis and actually backing that point up with some facts(sans profanity). Regards, Martin Mike Prizy wrote: > Half to his agent? Probably more in the range of 15 percent. Hopefully he does your >investment deal. > I just think he's got more beer money. > > "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > > > Ok let's assume that he gives up half to his agent, additional expenses and for > > taxes. That's probably excessive but lets go with that. That leaves 125,000US. > > Let's further assume that this thing doesn't start until 2003 and runs for 6 > > years. Let's further assume that he gets no other endorsements or incentive > > bonuses(probably very unreasonable). Let's then apply a discount rate of 5%. > > Doing some VERY QUICK calculations, that contract is worth 629,256 today. Once > > again, assuming a discount rate of 5%, he could buy a 30 year annuity of 40,299 > > per year. On average, approximately half of that would be tax-free. He also > > intends to go to school so there is no reason that he can't get just as good a > > job as he would have got even if stayed at UM and fell flat on his face as far > > as his running goes. It's at least arguable that he made the correct decision > > from a financial standpoint. > > Regards, > > > > Martin > > > > Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner > > Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP > > Chartered Accountants > > P.O. Box 367 > > 96 Nelson Street > > Brantford, Ontario > > N3T 5N3 > > Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 > > Telephone: (519) 759-3511 > > Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Web site: www.millards.com > > Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm > > > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: > > This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for > > the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution > > or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a > > criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email > > confirmation to the sender. > > > > Michael Contopoulos wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know how much his agent gets? The people who he has handling > > > his finances? etc? After taxes and paying these fees, he won't have as > > > much money as it seems. Not to say its a bad deal. Its a great one. But > > > Mr. Webb, based on his salary, isn't going to be as wealthy as people think. > > > > > > >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 > > > > > > > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > > > > > > > >malmo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when > > > >the slimy > > > > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he > > > >becomes > > > > > just another runner. > > > > > > > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track > > > >fans. > > > > > > > > > > malmo > > > > > > > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 > > > >million > > > > > dollar > > > > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the > > > >case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Regards, Martin Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP Chartered Accountants P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Regular young guy here... I'm 24. I'm someone offered me $100,000 a year, much less $250,000, JUST TO RUN I'm hump that piggie for all it's worth. Who gives a flying fat ass about college running. He won't earn 6 figures in college running. He can still carry on his education while making fat bank and getting his royal ass kicked in Europe while Nike shells out 6 figures. Talk half, invest it, hope you don't completely bomb so Nike will renew the contract. It doesn't matter how fast Webb runs. As long as he's getting exposure and putting his face and personality out there Nike will be happy. Bonus if he runs fast. There have been lots of "personalities" in the US track and field world who have earned more Nike-like money and exposure while not being the fastest or most consistant in their event. I won't name names. Alan >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [128.223.142.13] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBF00534C00944004324F80DF8E0DC9C10; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:00 -0700 >Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1])by >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6IIF9ak022773for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:15:09 -0700 >(PDT) >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by darkwing.uoregon.edu >(8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6IIF9X4022771for t-and-f-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jul >2002 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from mrr2.millards.com (millards.com [207.61.19.2])by >darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6IIF7ak022686for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:15:08 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from millards.com (mjdixon.millards.com [192.168.1.44])by >mrr2.millards.com (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g6IHvXO25474for ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:57:33 -0400 >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:27:43 -0700 >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > >malmo wrote: > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when >the slimy > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he >becomes > > just another runner. > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track >fans. > > > > malmo > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 >million > > dollar > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the >case. > > > > > _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Doing some quick calculations - the report came from the Washington Times for Christ sakes! There's a credible source if I ever heard one. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:38 PM To: Michael Contopoulos Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" Ok let's assume that he gives up half to his agent, additional expenses and for taxes. That's probably excessive but lets go with that. That leaves 125,000US. Let's further assume that this thing doesn't start until 2003 and runs for 6 years. Let's further assume that he gets no other endorsements or incentive bonuses(probably very unreasonable). Let's then apply a discount rate of 5%. Doing some VERY QUICK calculations, that contract is worth 629,256 today. Once again, assuming a discount rate of 5%, he could buy a 30 year annuity of 40,299 per year. On average, approximately half of that would be tax-free. He also intends to go to school so there is no reason that he can't get just as good a job as he would have got even if stayed at UM and fell flat on his face as far as his running goes. It's at least arguable that he made the correct decision from a financial standpoint. Regards, Martin Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP Chartered Accountants P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender. Michael Contopoulos wrote: > Does anyone know how much his agent gets? The people who he has > handling his finances? etc? After taxes and paying these fees, he > won't have as much money as it seems. Not to say its a bad deal. Its > a great one. But Mr. Webb, based on his salary, isn't going to be as > wealthy as people think. > > >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 > > > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > > > >malmo wrote: > > > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes > > > if/when > >the slimy > > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him > > > if/when he > >becomes > > > just another runner. > > > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some > > > track > >fans. > > > > > > malmo > > > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a > > > >5 > >million > > > dollar > > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not > > > >the > >case. > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Half to his agent? Probably more in the range of 15 percent. Hopefully he does your investment deal. I just think he's got more beer money. "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > Ok let's assume that he gives up half to his agent, additional expenses and for > taxes. That's probably excessive but lets go with that. That leaves 125,000US. > Let's further assume that this thing doesn't start until 2003 and runs for 6 > years. Let's further assume that he gets no other endorsements or incentive > bonuses(probably very unreasonable). Let's then apply a discount rate of 5%. > Doing some VERY QUICK calculations, that contract is worth 629,256 today. Once > again, assuming a discount rate of 5%, he could buy a 30 year annuity of 40,299 > per year. On average, approximately half of that would be tax-free. He also > intends to go to school so there is no reason that he can't get just as good a > job as he would have got even if stayed at UM and fell flat on his face as far > as his running goes. It's at least arguable that he made the correct decision > from a financial standpoint. > Regards, > > Martin > > Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner > Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP > Chartered Accountants > P.O. Box 367 > 96 Nelson Street > Brantford, Ontario > N3T 5N3 > Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 > Telephone: (519) 759-3511 > Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web site: www.millards.com > Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: > This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for > the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution > or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a > criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email > confirmation to the sender. > > Michael Contopoulos wrote: > > > Does anyone know how much his agent gets? The people who he has handling > > his finances? etc? After taxes and paying these fees, he won't have as > > much money as it seems. Not to say its a bad deal. Its a great one. But > > Mr. Webb, based on his salary, isn't going to be as wealthy as people think. > > > > >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > > >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 > > > > > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > > > > > >malmo wrote: > > > > > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when > > >the slimy > > > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he > > >becomes > > > > just another runner. > > > > > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track > > >fans. > > > > > > > > malmo > > > > > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 > > >million > > > > dollar > > > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the > > >case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Ok let's assume that he gives up half to his agent, additional expenses and for taxes. That's probably excessive but lets go with that. That leaves 125,000US. Let's further assume that this thing doesn't start until 2003 and runs for 6 years. Let's further assume that he gets no other endorsements or incentive bonuses(probably very unreasonable). Let's then apply a discount rate of 5%. Doing some VERY QUICK calculations, that contract is worth 629,256 today. Once again, assuming a discount rate of 5%, he could buy a 30 year annuity of 40,299 per year. On average, approximately half of that would be tax-free. He also intends to go to school so there is no reason that he can't get just as good a job as he would have got even if stayed at UM and fell flat on his face as far as his running goes. It's at least arguable that he made the correct decision from a financial standpoint. Regards, Martin Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Partner Millard, Rouse & Rosebrugh LLP Chartered Accountants P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com Practice Areas: www.millards.com/htm/profs/m_mjdixo.htm IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email may be confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender. Michael Contopoulos wrote: > Does anyone know how much his agent gets? The people who he has handling > his finances? etc? After taxes and paying these fees, he won't have as > much money as it seems. Not to say its a bad deal. Its a great one. But > Mr. Webb, based on his salary, isn't going to be as wealthy as people think. > > >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 > > > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > > > >malmo wrote: > > > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when > >the slimy > > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he > >becomes > > > just another runner. > > > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track > >fans. > > > > > > malmo > > > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 > >million > > > dollar > > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the > >case. > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Does anyone know how much his agent gets? The people who he has handling his finances? etc? After taxes and paying these fees, he won't have as much money as it seems. Not to say its a bad deal. Its a great one. But Mr. Webb, based on his salary, isn't going to be as wealthy as people think. >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:15:01 -0400 > >http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm > >malmo wrote: > > > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when >the slimy > > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he >becomes > > just another runner. > > > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track >fans. > > > > malmo > > > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 >million > > dollar > > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the >case. > > > > > _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20020718-16634094.htm malmo wrote: > Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when the slimy > John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he becomes > just another runner. > > malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track fans. > > malmo > > >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 million > dollar > >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the case.
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
> As far as John Sun's comments are concerned, since > when can business people be counted > on to pay what the appropriate market is? Do a > search and include dot-com and bubble > in your search parameters. Draw your own > conclusions. Business people will only pay what the market demands. Simple economics. Sure, in hindsight a lot of people were wildly overpaid during the dot-com bubble. But if you were trying to hire employees during that time, you had to pay through the nose for people, even if they were less qualified then you wanted. It was a sellers market. Professional team sports offer a great example. These are billion dollar businesses, and the owners pay what the market will bear. If it's 10 years at $252 mill for ARod or 5 years at $90 mill for Barry Bonds, it all depends on current market conditions and demand. In the case of AWebb, there is already a pretty good precedent on what the appropiate demand and market value is for track and field stars in the US. And it's not much. Face it, track & field in its current state is not a big-money sport and probably will never be. Most people could care less about it in non-Olympic years. And those that do care, like the folks on this list, aren't spending enough to make a difference. Just my thoughts on the matter. John __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
It could happen. Dave Sandridge former Van Cortlandt Park XC HS recorder holder once whupped Golden Gloves Champion (and future boxing legend) Sugar Ray Leonard's a$$ in a lockerroom brawl. Like Webb, college (Villanova) wasn't for Sandridge either. malmo >Although Webb's on a slightly higher level: > >Can you say "Liz Mueller"? > >Foot Locker champ went to several colleges, kept leaving because she didn't >like the coaches, wound up someplace where the coach allowed her to pick her >own races and set her own training schedule. > >She is now a boxer, fighting professionally, and has several elaborate tatoos. > >Maybe we'll see Webb in Athens, not as a miler, but as a bantamweight. > >Jim Gerweck >Running Times >
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Nope. malmo "thinks" the amount should cover the risk he takes if/when the slimy John Waters types (agents/shoe geeks) turn their backs on him if/when he becomes just another runner. malmo "thinks" that amount is all fantasy in the minds of some track fans. malmo >malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 million dollar >house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the case.
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Although Webb's on a slightly higher level: Can you say "Liz Mueller"? Foot Locker champ went to several colleges, kept leaving because she didn't like the coaches, wound up someplace where the coach allowed her to pick her own races and set her own training schedule. She is now a boxer, fighting professionally, and has several elaborate tatoos. Maybe we'll see Webb in Athens, not as a miler, but as a bantamweight. Jim Gerweck Running Times
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
And the people talking about money are arguing against themselves in any event. Old story: Man to beautiful woman in bar: Will you sleep with me for a million dollars? Beautiful woman: Of course. Man: Will you sleep with me for a dollar? Beautiful woman: Of course not. What do you think I am-some kind of whore? Man: We've already established that. We're now just negotiating price. Those talking about money don't seem to have a problem with Ray's "pimping", they are just questioning whether or not he has done a good enough job. malmo seems to think that if he is making enough to buy his Mom a 5 million dollar house then that is enough. I think we can safely say that is not the case. Shawn's cut-off seems to be 1,000,000. It's likely less than that. I'll concede it should be greater than 1.00. So the number that should make people happy is somewhere between 1 dollar and 1,000,000. What is that number and do we know for sure that he is not getting it? As far as John Sun's comments are concerned, since when can business people be counted on to pay what the appropriate market is? Do a search and include dot-com and bubble in your search parameters. Draw your own conclusions. We don't know what he is getting. We can't guess. It might be enough. "Show me the money". Fred Finke wrote: > Hi. Fred Finke Here. > Actually I was not talking about money as everyone appears to be thinking. > I was strictly referring to the fact that, although I would never recommend > it to any HS athlete in any sport, we do not know the specifics of the > entire move. Maybe, just maybe, he is doing what he and his parents think > is best. Maybe he is really doing the best thing: Striking while the iron > is hot. > > Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be surprised and > disappointed) he gets: > > a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative > (that's 50K a year for life invested)) > b. -Guaranteed 4 year school scholarship of his choice (NO College > guarantees that, and I would bet ANYTHING that was part of the deal) > c. -Coaching that includes the guy that got him 3:53 (and you can be sure > that he will have access to other coaches as necessary) > d. -One of the best (if not THE best) manager in the game as his agent > (that can use the leverage of his other athletes to get Webb into races). > e. -The ability to pick and schedule ALL of his races (which I doubt would > just include 1500/mile races) around the worlds schedule instead of just the > collegiate schedule. > f. -Be surrounded by the support group that has worked so far (His HS > Coach, parents, girlfriend(?), etc) > g. -Be in a training group of HIS choice. > h. -Still race all the NCAA (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) races he wants (on his > schedule, as an open athlete) except for the NCAA championships. (What meet > would not want him in their race as a draw?) > > What could ANY college program do to top that set-up? > > And last but not least, I find it interesting (at least it appears to me) > that the common perception is that the progression of coaching excellence is > as follows:, club youth coaches, HS coaches, college coaches, elite coaches, > each having better coaches than the one before it. I still remember Radzko > (His HS coach, sp?) getting hammered during Webb's' junior year when he had > Webb pass on a race or two (I think it was national scholastic) and then > having Webb in some relays instead of open events (Penn relays?). As we all > know, there are rotten apples at ALL levels and there is excellence at ALL > levels. We may not want to sell Radzko short. > > In the final analysis, it comes down (IMHO) to what the athlete feels is > best for his success and his future. Obviously, he would have gotten good > coaching and racing experiences at Michigan, but who is to say that he did > not get an even BETTER situation? > > Fred > > PS-On the other hand, how about the experts that were screaming Ritzenheim > that was "overraced" in HS. Seems to me he is doing pretty well. (BTW, how > many of you experts knew that Ritz negative split almost EVERY 2K lap of the > 12K at the world XC Championships?) > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > *** > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:51 AM > To: Fred Finke > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTE
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
> Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be > surprised and disappointed) he gets: > > a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess > that is conservative > (that's 50K a year for life invested)) Let's be realistic here instead of throwing all kinds of numbers around. First off, what company in their right mind would be willing to give an unproven 19 year-old track athlete a million dollar signing bonus? A shoe company? It just doesn't make sense. I would guess that the main target audience for purchasing running shoes (and apparel) are recreational runners and people looking for a comfortable walking shoe. These are the people driving the industry. Look at any issue of Runner's World, Running Times or even T&FN and odds are you'll see plenty of shoe ads. How many ads have an elite athlete in it? Zero? One, maybe? Track stars just don't drive product sales to the running/walking masses. I know it's comparing apples to oranges but less and less NBA stars have huge shoe contracts. If I recall, Reebok dropped Shaq a few years ago. Here's a guy who gets more national (and even international) TV exposure in one game than Alan Webb will probably get in his lifetime, and it still doesn't help sell shoes! Another example being thrown out is Tiger Woods. Companies pay him big bucks because he helps them sell product. Golfers are willing to shell out $400 for a Nike driver or $40 for a box of golf balls just because Tiger uses the same equipment. Plus he gets his sponsors a ton of high-level media exposure on a regular basis. An elite track and field athlete doesn't have the same pull nor the access to prime media outlets to garner mass exposure for sponsors. Unless it's an Olympic year. That's a reality. If Alan Webb gets a 7 figure signing bonus or even a $100,000 a year deal then good for him. I just find it hard to fathom (from a business perspective) why any company would be willing to shell out that kind of money for him at this time. John __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
I think Webb would have been better off to stay in college, but people are blowing this decision way out of proportion. As far as I have heard he is still going to be getting an education and he will likely be running in some of the same meets he would have at Michigan. It really boils down to a coaching decision, which I believe Webb should be allowed to choose for himself (It is his career). A lot of the posts are right to point out the notable diffrences between Webb and Tiger Woods or Kobe Bryant. However, I think it is safe to assume Webb is being paid enough to pay his bills. If he doesn't develop in the next couple of years, he is likely going to be in the almost the same place he would have been if he didn't develop at Michigan. More than likely fairly debt free with a college degree and 40+ years in the working world ahead of him. Even if he doesn't graduate from college in a timely manner he could go back in a few years if running doesn't pan out. It's not ! like he's going to end up homeless on the street if he doesn't develop into a great miler. Matthew
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
I agree with you. And, I hope his decision takes him right to his goals. It is great that we are able to have this debate at all in the U.S. There are a lot of great young U.S. distance runners coming up. I think this issue will be revisited a few times over the next several years. I hope good notes are being taken. Kurt Bray wrote: > I worry about Webb going pro now not over any questions of money nor even > educational opportunity - he's an adult now and can judge those things for > himself. My concern is that he not harm his development by rushing to jump > to a higher level of the sport when he has not yet mastered his current > level. > > Things worked out great for Tiger, but he was already beating the crap out > of all the college boys. If Tiger had been getting cuffed around at the > college level the way Webb has, I would have thought his going pro after one > year would have been a mistake too. > > If the problem is that Webb was unhappy with Michigan or his college coach, > I would have advised him to transfer to another school for a year and > perhaps then, depending on whether he was winning at the college level, > think about the pros. > > In any case it's too late now. I wish him great success. > > Kurt Bray > > _ > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
I worry about Webb going pro now not over any questions of money nor even educational opportunity - he's an adult now and can judge those things for himself. My concern is that he not harm his development by rushing to jump to a higher level of the sport when he has not yet mastered his current level. Things worked out great for Tiger, but he was already beating the crap out of all the college boys. If Tiger had been getting cuffed around at the college level the way Webb has, I would have thought his going pro after one year would have been a mistake too. If the problem is that Webb was unhappy with Michigan or his college coach, I would have advised him to transfer to another school for a year and perhaps then, depending on whether he was winning at the college level, think about the pros. In any case it's too late now. I wish him great success. Kurt Bray _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
I said - "one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders" - no where did I slam any educational institution! I was not implying anything about GMU. If he can get one more year of college running at GMU, fine. I think one more year of the college running experience will help him more with his long-term running development and would provide for a smoother transition to the next level. (((If I was going to slam a university, I would have slammed Michigan. I live in Illinois - home of two Big 10+1 schools.))) "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > Because you were implying that GMU would not be able to do as good a job above the >shoulders. Maybe that > is true. Is there any empirical evidence in whatever field he was in at UM and >whatever he is in at GMU? > Somebody must have the answer to that question given how many conclusions are being >drawn about his > deal(s) from various and sundry armchairs. > Martin D > > Mike Prizy wrote: > > > Martin D. - > > > > Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any >official capacity with > > GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? > > > > My previous post: > > > > But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the >Lakers. We'll never > > know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two >years of college like > > some other kid named Mike? > > > > Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi > > million dollar contracts. > > > > Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably > > reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach >when a university > > with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and >travel to competition, > > and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college >running would have done > > wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. > > > > Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. > > > > "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > > > > > Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger > > > then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take > > > it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't > > > screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an > > > education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have > > > developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious > > > NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he > > > isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for > > > looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and > > > you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't > > > think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil > > > Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no > > > idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate > > > down the road in any event. > > > Regards, > > > Martin > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more > > > > dollars > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > > > > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Yep!!! that's a fair projection in the running market. It's just a totally different market in comparison to b-ball or other huge revenue sports. In a message dated 6/21/2002 4:27:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >If Webb doesn't show significant improvement in the next year or two, it's >over. He can't live off of his high school career forever and no sponsor >is going to throw the same amount of money his way for it. > >
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Because you were implying that GMU would not be able to do as good a job above the shoulders. Maybe that is true. Is there any empirical evidence in whatever field he was in at UM and whatever he is in at GMU? Somebody must have the answer to that question given how many conclusions are being drawn about his deal(s) from various and sundry armchairs. Martin D Mike Prizy wrote: > Martin D. - > > Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any >official capacity with > GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? > > My previous post: > > But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. >We'll never > know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years >of college like > some other kid named Mike? > > Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi > million dollar contracts. > > Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably > reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach >when a university > with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel >to competition, > and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running >would have done > wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. > > Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. > > "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > > > Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger > > then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take > > it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't > > screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an > > education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have > > developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious > > NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he > > isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for > > looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and > > you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't > > think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil > > Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no > > idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate > > down the road in any event. > > Regards, > > Martin > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more > > > dollars > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > > > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Hi. Fred Finke Here. Actually I was not talking about money as everyone appears to be thinking. I was strictly referring to the fact that, although I would never recommend it to any HS athlete in any sport, we do not know the specifics of the entire move. Maybe, just maybe, he is doing what he and his parents think is best. Maybe he is really doing the best thing: Striking while the iron is hot. Suppose (and if Webb took anything less, I would be surprised and disappointed) he gets: a. -1 million dollar signing bonus (I would guess that is conservative (that's 50K a year for life invested)) b. -Guaranteed 4 year school scholarship of his choice (NO College guarantees that, and I would bet ANYTHING that was part of the deal) c. -Coaching that includes the guy that got him 3:53 (and you can be sure that he will have access to other coaches as necessary) d. -One of the best (if not THE best) manager in the game as his agent (that can use the leverage of his other athletes to get Webb into races). e. -The ability to pick and schedule ALL of his races (which I doubt would just include 1500/mile races) around the worlds schedule instead of just the collegiate schedule. f. -Be surrounded by the support group that has worked so far (His HS Coach, parents, girlfriend(?), etc) g. -Be in a training group of HIS choice. h. -Still race all the NCAA (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) races he wants (on his schedule, as an open athlete) except for the NCAA championships. (What meet would not want him in their race as a draw?) What could ANY college program do to top that set-up? And last but not least, I find it interesting (at least it appears to me) that the common perception is that the progression of coaching excellence is as follows:, club youth coaches, HS coaches, college coaches, elite coaches, each having better coaches than the one before it. I still remember Radzko (His HS coach, sp?) getting hammered during Webb's' junior year when he had Webb pass on a race or two (I think it was national scholastic) and then having Webb in some relays instead of open events (Penn relays?). As we all know, there are rotten apples at ALL levels and there is excellence at ALL levels. We may not want to sell Radzko short. In the final analysis, it comes down (IMHO) to what the athlete feels is best for his success and his future. Obviously, he would have gotten good coaching and racing experiences at Michigan, but who is to say that he did not get an even BETTER situation? Fred PS-On the other hand, how about the experts that were screaming Ritzenheim that was "overraced" in HS. Seems to me he is doing pretty well. (BTW, how many of you experts knew that Ritz negative split almost EVERY 2K lap of the 12K at the world XC Championships?) *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: Mike Prizy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:51 AM To: Fred Finke Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Fred Finke wrote: > Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did > it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) > > JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get > better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it > to any other athletes. > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > **
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Martin D. - Please explain to me (Mike P) how - in your opinion, and I presume not in any official capacity with GMU - was my comment offensive to GMU? My previous post: But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. "Martin J. Dixon" wrote: > Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger > then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take > it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't > screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an > education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have > developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious > NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he > isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for > looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and > you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't > think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil > Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no > idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate > down the road in any event. > Regards, > Martin > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more > > dollars > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Not running for the NCAA didn't hurt Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El-Gueruej, Haile Gebrelessie or Khalid Kahnnouchi. >From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" >Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 05:34:30 -0400 > >Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and >Tiger >then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. >Take >it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who >won't >screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get >an >education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people >have >developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your >precious >NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say >he >isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit >for >looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is >American and >you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people >didn't >think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil >Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I >have no >idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to >evaluate >down the road in any event. >Regards, >Martin > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot >more > > dollars > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Webb ain't Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant was one of 400 b-ball players earning 3 million a year. Webb won't be buying his momma a house with his 5 million dollar signing bonus. College isn't for everyone. Who on this list would really trade away "the Harvard of the West" for the "Salisbury State of the West"? malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Fred Finke Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
The major difference between Webb, Woods, and Bryant is that Woods was guaranteed millions in sponsorships the day he quit college whether he panned out or not. Same for Kobe, plus several million in signing bonuses from the Lakers. I'll take a guess and say that Webb's sponsorship is well below $1 million per year. If Tiger & Kobe didn't pan out, they had enough to live on for life if they were halfway intelligent with the money. If Webb doesn't show significant improvement in the next year or two, it's over. He can't live off of his high school career forever and no sponsor is going to throw the same amount of money his way for it. --- "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe > and Tiger > then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the > dollars. Take > it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach > who won't > screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to > get an > education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of > people have > developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your > precious > NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's > say he > isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given > credit for > looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is > American and > you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people > didn't > think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention > Neil > Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I > have no > idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to > evaluate > down the road in any event. > Regards, > Martin > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole > lot more > > dollars > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Is someone privy to his deals? Let's say he was paid the same as Kobe and Tiger then what say you? Some people seem to be strictly looking at the dollars. Take it off the table because we don't know. He thinks he has a good coach who won't screw it up like some people think is going to happen. He is going to get an education. Presumably he is getting paid a bunch of money. Lots of people have developed very well thank very much and have never even heard of your precious NCAA. This is not complicated. It's back to a coaching argument. Let's say he isn't as well off financially long-term, perhaps he should be given credit for looking at other things other than the dollars. Most of this list is American and you would still all be pledging allegiance to the queen if a few people didn't think outside of the box a couple of hundred years ago. Not to mention Neil Armstrong etc. etc. The comments Mike P has made are offensive to GMU. I have no idea if he has made the right move and it will be an impossible thing to evaluate down the road in any event. Regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more > dollars > > In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
But, I believe Kobe played under 15 minutes per game his first year with the Lakers. We'll never know, but would he have been better prepared for the NBA if he had played two years of college like some other kid named Mike? Also, Tiger was one of the best in the world, and he and Kobe got multi million dollar contracts. Webb's best time ranked him as the 78th??? 1500m guy. He'll probably reach that sub-3:30 in the next few years. But why take the sink-or-swim approach when a university with a coach with proven credentials was willing to pay for his training and travel to competition, and also pick up the tab for his education? I think one more year of college running would have done wonders for his development - above as well as below his shoulders. Two years of college seemed to work well for Carl Lewis. Fred Finke wrote: > Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did > it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) > > JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get > better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it > to any other athletes. > > *** > Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator >--- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 >-- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net > *** > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" > > first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt > Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect > in the next year or two. > > Second, > > Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to > stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? > Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. > But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived > of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). > Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain > he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break > with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been > unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad > idea it is to leave college. > > You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a > middle-distance racing example? > Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at > the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years > and getting nowhere? > Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- > but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. > > We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very > long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear > that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! > > So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny > Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in > the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the > satellite TV dish). > > RT
RE: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Just curious, But does the name Kobe Bryant come to anyone's mind? (He did it straight out of HS! He did the same thing (yeah, what a stupid move. ;) JMHO, But Scott Radzko got Webb to 3:53. Who is to say Webb will not get better? Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, I consider Webb an exception and would not recommend it to any other athletes. *** Fred Finke, LDR Men's Coach Selection Coordinator --- O Men's Team Leader, World Cross, Morocco, 1998 -- <^_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/\ Visit me at: www.Coachnet.net *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb "going pro" first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
Re: t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
Not at all a proper comparison. Tiger and Webb. We are talking whole lot more dollars In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:36:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to >stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride?
t-and-f: Webb "going pro"
first of all, "going pro" is probably misleading- I doubt Webb is doing it for the money he could realistically expect in the next year or two. Second, Would anybody have said to Tiger Woods that he needed to stay at Stanford through a full four-year ride? Sure there's a difference- Woods had already won everything in sight. But if he'd stayed at Stanford we'd probably have been deprived of that 'rookie year' 13-stroke win at the Masters (or thereabouts). Hindsight is always perfect- he had no way of being certain he'd be hugely successful when he made the decision to break with the NCAA scene- there was a risk involved. If he'd been unsuccessful the naysayers would be harping about what a bad idea it is to leave college. You want a better example directly from our own sport-in fact a middle-distance racing example? Who fared better- Johnny Gray getting out of NCAA competition at the start, or Michael Granville slugging it out over four years and getting nowhere? Sure there are examples of success and failure both ways- but the Gray / Granville comparison is pretty startling. We'll never know if Gray would have got down to 1:42 and a very long successful career if he'd stayed in college, but it is clear that NOT going to college certainly didn't seem to hurt his progress! So let's give Webb a break, and see if he can follow the Johnny Gray model and become a medal contender at any competition in the world. I look forward to observing from the stands (and the satellite TV dish). RT
