Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki
Am 17.09.2010 02:21, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: I'd say that the mailing list is somehow more important, but the forum people might think the same. For me that's not a problem, and who wants can read the ml online in forum style;-) Therefore I suggest the wiki as 'neutral' plattform that allows everybody to monitor changes and to do colloborate work (even if its bad for discussion that has to take place somewhere else) Am 17.09.2010 02:29, schrieb John Smith: This is a chicken and egg problem, should people document first and then discuss, or discuss first then document based on the out come of the discussion. Both is fine but there we have the problem how others get notified. So as said I would preffer a non ML sollution as you would preffer a non forums solution :) So first place can be wiki? Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
Hi Andrew, nice job you are working on :) We have already start_date=*,end_date=* I guess that fits your needs, right? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date Are there any other aspects you are looking tags for? regards Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
On Fri, September 17, 2010 15:55, Matthias Meißer wrote: Hi Andrew, nice job you are working on :) We have already start_date=*,end_date=* I guess that fits your needs, right? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date No, not exactly. I knew of these, but they are for historical mapping. start_date=* is the date a feature was built (i.e. my construction_end_date) end_date=* is the date a feature was demolished. Are there any other aspects you are looking tags for? Yes, but I haven't translated them yet. :) Thanks, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
2010/9/17 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: nice job you are working on :) We have already start_date=*,end_date=* I guess that fits your needs, right? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date I don't think those tags are used for construction dates... You could use a construction prefix though... construction:start_date=* construction:end_date=* ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
Oh sorry was my mistake. Personaly I would preffer a namespace so construction:start_date instead of construction_start_date There are still other ideas how to model this 'lifecylce': http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_life_cycle_concepts Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki
2010/9/17 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: Therefore I suggest the wiki as 'neutral' plattform that allows everybody to monitor changes and to do colloborate work (even if its bad for discussion that has to take place somewhere else) The wiki isn't good, since most people won't be monitoring all changes just to notice something new has occurred, it is also a very poor platform to facilitate discussion... Both is fine but there we have the problem how others get notified. So as said I would preffer a non ML sollution as you would preffer a non forums solution :) So first place can be wiki? Simply stating we should use the wiki isn't helpful, as people that prefer forums will continue to use forums, others will use country based mailing lists and so on, this isn't helpful. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki
Am 17.09.2010 09:09, schrieb John Smith: 2010/9/17 Matthias Meißerdig...@arcor.de: Therefore I suggest the wiki as 'neutral' plattform that allows everybody to monitor changes and to do colloborate work (even if its bad for discussion that has to take place somewhere else) The wiki isn't good, since most people won't be monitoring all changes just to notice something new has occurred, it is also a very poor platform to facilitate discussion... As we said yes it's not good for discussions but it offers monitoring abilities, changability and embedding/linking to other tags etc. Both is fine but there we have the problem how others get notified. So as said I would preffer a non ML sollution as you would preffer a non forums solution:) So first place can be wiki? Simply stating we should use the wiki isn't helpful, as people that prefer forums will continue to use forums, others will use country based mailing lists and so on, this isn't helpful. Ok but it's hard to crosscomunicate. The only possibility I see are projects like: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Updates http://blog.openstreetmap.de (german week review) Or we establish a central base where we collect ideas/grow them up. This refers to the garage/incubator idea that changes /Proposed features to a less voting centered platform. Matthias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
On Fri, September 17, 2010 16:08, Matthias Meißer wrote: Oh sorry was my mistake. Personaly I would preffer a namespace so construction:start_date instead of construction_start_date There are still other ideas how to model this 'lifecylce': http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_life_cycle_concepts No worries. I will look at the wiki and see what's up. I don't think my tag is used much yet, but I had to create something to record the data. It can easily be changed at a later date. Anyway, I guess this is the right place to be discussing this sort of thing. Thanks, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. there is the convention for shop: shop=shop category yes/no are no shop-categories. I assumed that rental was intended to work the same as shop. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
I also found recently information attached to a bridge (in a more technical and less representative way), actually a really small pedestrian bridge: http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953091 http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953084 Sorry that they are hard to read due to reallife tagging ;-) is there anyone already tagging these? If you use ref for these number, how would you distinct them from ref on the street? Maybe I should use ref:bridge for them? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. there is the convention for shop: shop=shop category yes/no are no shop-categories. I assumed that rental was intended to work the same as shop. I found this combination very often: amenity=fuel shop=yes Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental From :mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com Date :Fri Sep 17 08:38:03 America/Chicago 2010 2010/9/17 André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com: I found this combination very often: amenity=fuel shop=yes What does it mean? The wiki only has documentation for shop=kiosk in conjunction with amenity=fuel What category is yes in? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Sea wall defence barrier
On 17-9-2010 16:28, Dave F. wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawall There appears to be only 7 occurrences of sea wall so I'm wondering if a different tag is being used, or maybe no-one's mapped them yet. Has anybody mapped this type of barrier before? During our import in The Netherlands[1], we're using man_made=reinforced_slope. This is a kind of placeholder tag until a more specific (or otherwise better) tag is found to be more common place, or until a local survey classifies what type of reinforced slope it is and sets better tags. Better tags don't seem to be in widespread use, though, or at all. Reinforced slope was chosen as a direct translation of the dutch classification in the dataset being imported. Some of these are actually seawalls, some are the outer side of a dike/levee lining rivers. Can't use man_made=dyke in the latter case, as that describes the entire dyke, i.e. two slopes and the top bit. The idea for this placeholder tag was that a local survey would mean the object got retagged, and we could recognize by the occurence of man_made=reinforced_slope that a survey would still be required. The ones that are actually groynes we have already reclassified as man_made=groyne during the import, as they're so easy to spot. Same goes for man_made=breakwater.[2] Obviously, if man_made=reinforced_slope (and a possible subclassing) would somehow be adopted as the tag to use world wide, we'd be done. :) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3dShapes [2] Tagwatch counts for NL at this moment: groyne (2596), breakwater (42), reinforced_slope (564). -- Lennard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze
On 17 September 2010 23:30, Daniel Herding dherd...@gmx.de wrote: Dear mappers, I have started a proposal on how to map mazes (labyrinths): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/maze I'd be happy to receive comments on the talk page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/maze Wouldn't this just be a subtype of an amusement park? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience At the moment 849 nodes and 280 ways are tagged with shop=yes. But only 90 nodes and 17 ways are fuel stations, too. So I mixed something up. And of curse shop=kiosk or convenience is more precise. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience At the moment 849 nodes and 280 ways are tagged with shop=yes. But only 90 nodes and 17 ways are fuel stations, too. So I mixed something up. And of curse shop=kiosk or convenience is more precise. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to start?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:46 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I also found recently information attached to a bridge (in a more technical and less representative way), actually a really small pedestrian bridge: http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953091 http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953084 Sorry that they are hard to read due to reallife tagging ;-) is there anyone already tagging these? If you use ref for these number, how would you distinct them from ref on the street? Maybe I should use ref:bridge for them? I use bridge_number since that's what I've called them outside OSM. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze
On 17 September 2010 23:30, Daniel Herdingdherd...@gmx.de wrote: I have started a proposal on how to map mazes (labyrinths): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/maze Am 17.09.2010 17:05, schrieb John Smith: Wouldn't this just be a subtype of an amusement park? Maybe in some cases, you could regard a maze (including its cash desk, souvenir shop, etc.) as a very small theme park (tourism=theme_park) with only one attraction. But this tagging scheme would not fit for the other mazes I described in my proposal: 1.) Mazes in parks are often gratis and are unguarded. A theme park, on the other hand, usually requires an admission fee and is supervised. 2.) Mazes are often attractions inside theme parks. Such a maze is PART OF a theme parks, but it is not a theme park on its own. Daniel ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
On 9/17/10 10:00 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. i typically set amenity=fuel shop=convenience for these cases. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 2:05 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 18 September 2010 03:31, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: No, absolutely no, a maze (actually a labyrinth) was the first piece Thanks for the history lesson, but that hardly applies to most modern mazes which tend to be made from hedges etc. ___ In addition to entertaining mazes, labyrinths are also sometimes used for contemplative religious practices. Can't find a good example on imagery, but there are plenty of examples here: http://labyrinthlocator.com/ Brad ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze
2010/9/17 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 18 September 2010 03:31, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: No, absolutely no, a maze (actually a labyrinth) was the first piece Thanks for the history lesson, but that hardly applies to most modern mazes which tend to be made from hedges etc. actually this is not history but mythology :) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze
2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: Well, amusement parks sometimes contain mazes, but I wouldn't classify mazes as a type of amusement park. They are also sometimes a feature of formal gardens; some hedge mazes have been in existence for centuries. +1 That was my intention to express when I cited ancient myths ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Sea wall defence barrier
On 17-9-2010 23:29, Dave F. wrote: I've never been happy using man_made as it's far too general. (instead I tag buildings as buildings etc..) Mother nature sure didn't form these constructs. reinforced_slope is to vague for me. Sometimes it's just natural bolders others it's a vertical wall. Thanks, you nailed it. We _are_ using it as a generic, somewhat vague tag, as we know these appear in various different forms and scopes that only a survey can make clear as to what exactly it is. In that respect it's somewhat analogous to, say, natural=wetland. We're subclassing that as wetland=* to denote the various types of wetland. Taking that concept to your example: I'm thinking that as it's to protect against the waves/tide it should be barrier=; taking from the wiki general usage (UK) it should be sea_wall. A seawall is just one specific form of what we (and our national mapping agency) call a reinforced slope. slope=seawall, slope=revetment ? surface=concrete/asphalt/accropode/riprap/basalt ? barrier=seawall. Any objections? What do you call such a thing if it is the shore of a reservoir, or along a river tens or hundreds of $distance_unit inland? -- Lennard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
