Re: [Tagging] designated bike lane
On 01/03/2011 08:11 AM, Dave F. wrote: On 03/01/2011 03:50, Paul Johnson wrote: On 01/01/2011 07:54 AM, Dave F. wrote: Is the adjacent path shared? if so, note that that would be the safer passage. Most states prohibit bicycles from sidewalks, or limit their speed to a walking speed on sidewalks, making them useless for bicyclists. Really? Is that US thing? Do they have signs? What about joggers runners? It's not posted, but it is codified as such in state law. Oregon expressly limits bicycles to walking speed on sidewalks, all states consider bicycles as vehicles that must obey vehicle law as applicable (including not driving on sidewalks, which makes the whole walking speed thing moot in Oregon anyway). BC similarly prohibits vehicles on sidewalks including bicycles. In all cases, of course, driveways are fair game, as are places where there is signage indicating the opposite. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On 4 January 2011 07:19, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: BTW: My feeling is, that sluice gates formerly were tagged with waterway=weir most of the time anyway. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be updated/added if there is a better tag... The suggested term floodgate would be more intuitive for me as a none native speaker - if the term fits for native speakers as well. I actually think we need some way to indicate scale, wikipedia seems to indicate sluice gates are usually on the small side of things, spillway gates are usually much larger, for a good example of spillway gates see the photos Liz linked to of Wivenhoe and Somerset, those dams were specifically built to reduce or prevent Brisbane (state capital of Queensland Australia) from flooding. In fact Wivenhoe was upgraded in recent times to hold 200% normal operating capacity. As for floodgates these aren't usually closed except in times of flooding and should be tagged differently again so they can be rendered differently for those that care about such things. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] designated bike lane
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:22 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 01/03/2011 08:11 AM, Dave F. wrote: On 03/01/2011 03:50, Paul Johnson wrote: On 01/01/2011 07:54 AM, Dave F. wrote: Is the adjacent path shared? if so, note that that would be the safer passage. Most states prohibit bicycles from sidewalks, or limit their speed to a walking speed on sidewalks, making them useless for bicyclists. Really? Is that US thing? Do they have signs? What about joggers runners? It's not posted, but it is codified as such in state law. Oregon expressly limits bicycles to walking speed on sidewalks, all states consider bicycles as vehicles that must obey vehicle law as applicable (including not driving on sidewalks, which makes the whole walking speed thing moot in Oregon anyway). Your statement that bicycles are prohibited from driving on sidewalks in all states is not correct. Florida statutes explicitly state: A person propelling a vehicle by human power upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, has all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances. Of course, those rights and duties include such things as stopping at a don't walk signal, even when there's a green light. Plus you have to yield to pedestrians and ring your hello kitty bicycle bell every time you pass one: A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian. It's not something you want to do for your commute. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes?
I'm interested in mapping which direction of a street slopes down (mainly for cycling purposes). The contour lines used by OpenCycleMap don't have nearly enough resolution for this, yet many streets have a noticeable slope (which can also be seen in how the roadside drains are designed). Is there a way to tag that a street is downhill in the forward or backward direction? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes?
At 2011-01-04 07:13, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Is there a way to tag that a street is downhill in the forward or backward direction? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ultimate list of approved keys
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 4:00 AM, Ralf Kleineisel r...@kleineisel.de wrote: On 02.01.2011 22:40, Anthony wrote: On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Ralf Kleineisel r...@kleineisel.de wrote: I do not want someone telling me this is not relevant enough and having the right to delete my edits. Then make edits which are relevant enough By which and whose standards? Yours? Mine? Whoever is in charge of deletion. Which is much easier to do when that isn't everyone. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes?
Of course, this will require breaking the way into segments each time the slope changes between uphill and downhill. On some terrain this won't be an issue, but on rolling terrain you may have to have a great many nodes. Also, the slope will need to be determined by someone on the ground, as it may not be obvious when looking at an aerial photograph. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes? From :mailto:o...@tobias-knerr.de Date :Tue Jan 04 09:42:06 America/Chicago 2011 Nathan Edgars II wrote: Is there a way to tag that a street is downhill in the forward or backward direction? Is the incline=* key[1] what you are looking for? You can specify that a way goes uphill (incline=up) or downhill (incline=down) relative to the way's direction. You can also use positive or negative percentages as values to more precisely indicate the way's steepness. Tobias Knerr [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes?
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: At 2011-01-04 07:13, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Is there a way to tag that a street is downhill in the forward or backward direction? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline Ah yes, that's what I was looking for. I searched for slope and didn't find anything, but now that I added the word slope to it it should turn up. On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 10:50 AM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Of course, this will require breaking the way into segments each time the slope changes between uphill and downhill. On some terrain this won't be an issue, but on rolling terrain you may have to have a great many nodes. Certainly. Also, the slope will need to be determined by someone on the ground, as it may not be obvious when looking at an aerial photograph. It's not exactly obvious on the ground either without a protractor and level or more complicated surveying equipment, so I'll just go with up/down. (It is obvious which direction the slope is in many newer residential subdivisions though, if you have high enough resolution to see drains, since the side that water won't flow into isn't curved: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=28.417942lon=-81.491847zoom=20 ) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport subtypes
It was June, here's the start of the thread: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-June/002563.html On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: A scan through the wikipedia gives me international airport domestic airport regional airport airstrip or airfield +1 Why not adopt the usual subtagging scheme: aeroway=aerodrome aerodrome=international|regional|domestic|etc. I have a feeling we discussed this a few months ago. My suggestion would be to simply use numbers, if you're talking about a ranking scheme: aeroway=aerodrome aerodrome_level=1|2|3|4|5 This avoids all the problems we get when one country uses regional to mean something different from another, and the mappers there hate using regional in a way that is non-intuitive to them. Whereas with numbers, we can simply say in Timbuktu, regional is a level 2, but in Germany it's level 3. Also, I definitely think we should try and align to external standards. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport subtypes
2011/1/4 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: I have a feeling we discussed this a few months ago. My suggestion would be to simply use numbers, if you're talking about a ranking scheme: aeroway=aerodrome aerodrome_level=1|2|3|4|5 I agree. This does not mean that we cannot additionally tag services and facilities offered or characteristics like the length and surface of the runway. (Maybe we also need even more levels, e.g. in German discussions there were (maybe disputable) voices from people to even tag RC-Airfields with these aviation tags). For most people that try to render a map, a simple hierarchical classification (like the suggested aerodrome_level) is sufficient (btw.: this does apply to almost all other features as well). Also, I definitely think we should try and align to external standards. +1 cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport subtypes
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:45 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Also, I definitely think we should try and align to external standards. +1 Look at the ICAO classifications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class Nonetheless I think the OSM classifications are good because they handle things that ICAO doesn't, like international flights. - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On 5 January 2011 04:06, Osmisto osmi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all The vote for new tag shop=baby_care has been started. I've removed section with 'assortment=*' to make it simple and propose one thing in a time. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Infant_care_shop#Vote Everyone is welcome These shops can supply stuff for toddlers and children, not just infants. Also I think the word 'care' is misleading, to me, that would indicate some kind of place you could take your baby for medical assistance. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping gentle slopes?
The Brussels cycle map (unfortunately only available in a print version, as far as I can see) uses a coloured line on the right side of the road for notably uphill (pink) and severely uphill (red). It takes a bit of getting used to, but it conveys the information reasonably efficiently. Richard On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in mapping which direction of a street slopes down (mainly for cycling purposes). The contour lines used by OpenCycleMap don't have nearly enough resolution for this, yet many streets have a noticeable slope (which can also be seen in how the roadside drains are designed). Is there a way to tag that a street is downhill in the forward or backward direction? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Draft - Depot
On 4 January 2011 02:26, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/12/17 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: Yes and it would fine if we could continue in that way. Since landuses shouldn't overlap where do you get this from? IMHO this is not defined in the wiki and looking at current landuse values like military or forest, sometimes they will have to overlap. To be clear: I wouldn't mind defining that landuses should not overlap, but IMHO this will result in changes to the current tagging scheme. There's two defintions of a landuse tag. One is any tag of the form landuse=*, the other is any tag describing what land is used for. Not all landuse=* tags fit the second definition (most of the remainder are landcover type tags instead), and not all of the second definition are in the landuse=* form. If you are using the second definition, then landuse tags should rarely overlap. But landcover and landuse tags overlap all the time. Then you get the ambiguous tags, which can be both. What is a forest? A place where forestry (timber cutting, etc) happens? That's land use. A place where there's a lot of trees? - that's landcover. If a military area allows timber cutting inside the military zone, then that is double land use. But if it's just a bunch of trees, then the forest isn't a landuse tag, it's a landcover one. An agricultural school may have fields, orchards, cattle yards barns etc in the school grounds. Should this landuse be a school or a farm, or both? I'd be tempted to say just education myself, but I could see it going both ways. Stephen ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On 4/01/2011 7:20 AM, Paul Norman wrote: They both have elements of flow control, but function in quite different ways and look very different. A weir is used to raise the water level or control flow, with water flowing over the top. A sluice gate is essentially a valve for small waterways. In this case, why not something like: waterway=weir weir=sluice_gate I'm wary of the endless drive to create more high-level tags. It increases the burden on reusers of the data. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On 5 January 2011 11:38, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wary of the endless drive to create more high-level tags. It increases the burden on reusers of the data. Normally I'd agree with you 100%, but in this case it's a bit different because as pointed out earlier weirs tend to be non-moving for the most part (even if they can be temporarily removed) and the water freely flows over the top, sluice gates allow water to be diverted and generally don't have water flowing over the top of them and spillway gates of dams can be dry 99% of the time unless the dam is so full water needs to be released to prevent water from flowing over the top of them. Perhaps a more generic approach would work, eg waterway=flow_control flow_control=weir|sluice_gate|flood_gate|spillway_gate| ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Draft - Depot
On 5 January 2011 10:39, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: Then you get the ambiguous tags, which can be both. What is a forest? A place where forestry (timber cutting, etc) happens? That's land Actually I remember reading this in some other thread a long time ago, a forest originally didn't necessarily have trees but was an area used for hunting, so landuse would have been accurate, however as with any living language the meaning of words change over time, like 'sad' for instance, it has it's roots in 'sated' but the 2 words have completely different meanings now. use. A place where there's a lot of trees? - that's landcover. If a military area allows timber cutting inside the military zone, then that is double land use. But if it's just a bunch of trees, then the forest isn't a landuse tag, it's a landcover one. While your example might be accurate, I doubt the 2 areas would match identically, so you most likely would need 2 polygons. An agricultural school may have fields, orchards, cattle yards barns etc in the school grounds. Should this landuse be a school or a farm, or both? I'd be tempted to say just education myself, but I could see it going both ways. In this case I'd be tempted to tag it in a similar manner as an agricultural research area, or perhaps come up with a new tag, since they're teaching agriculture rather than focusing on commercial activities associated with agriculture. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On 5/01/2011 3:18 PM, John Smith wrote: Perhaps a more generic approach would work, eg waterway=flow_control flow_control=weir|sluice_gate|flood_gate|spillway_gate| Yeah something like that would be reasonable. What I'd like to see a lot more of is planning ahead: coming up with a scheme into which all future subtags can be slotted. It's very hard to change a tag once it's become popular. So perhaps: waterway=dam (a wall with water on one side) waterway=weir (a wall with water flowing over the top) waterway=flow_control (an opening through which water sometimes flows). flow_control=sluice_gate|flood_gate|spillway_gate|lock_gate... Then we get people who know this stuff to try and find exceptions that don't fit into the above scheme, and redesign it. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport subtypes
On 5/01/2011 4:58 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Look at the ICAO classifications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class That would work for airspace, but what about for airport classifications themselves? I can't find anything on Wikipedia, other than individual articles on regional airport, domestic airport etc. Nonetheless I think the OSM classifications are good because they handle things that ICAO doesn't, like international flights. Honestly, I think the use case of someone using OSM to determine whether they can land an international flight at a given airport a bit of a stretch. A far more likely use case is a renderer deciding whether or not to render a given airport at a given zoom level. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
