Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/1 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: thank you for this comment Paul. I overlooked this and will change it the next days. I guess the thing on the pic is a kind of guard_rail (probably could be subtagged). I didn't put this picture in myself and it is not showing what I had in mind when suggesting rope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier Thank you Nathan. I added this as a distinct value cable_barrier to the proposal. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/1 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: On 06/30/2011 05:35 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: How about lane dividers? This is an example below, though where I'm thinking of them they actually divide a couple of lanes for about a km or so - no lane changing allowed at that point. http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/reboundable_lane_divider.html Wouldn't that be a form of bollards in a series? Well, maybe the ones in the picture are rigid and could be called bollards, but in the case they are flexible, on in other cases where a priority lane is divided by small pieces on the ground, bollard would not be the right name. lane-divider is too generic IMHO, as it doesn't say much about the physical appearance: whether the barrier can be crossed without damaging the vehicle or not, etc. This is one the kind of dividers commonly used in Rome for instance: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=romhl=dell=41.896933,12.501827spn=0.002976,0.005284t=hz=18layer=ccbll=41.896933,12.501827panoid=pghlMFQlmBnzHE7V13DBYQcbp=12,310.86,,1,9.46 cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/2 Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com: I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Yes, of course these can be added to entrances (that is their main purpose). I usually tag entrances with building=entrance. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/3 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com: Maybe these are better examples of what I meant, though I have seen the others in use in the same role. http://www.zjeastsea.com/en/lane-divider.html http://www.roadstud.com.cn/road-studs/61.html I wouldn't call them bollards - bollard implies to me something that will actually damage your vehicle, or completely stop you going through. These you can drive over, but you'll notice that you have. It's a barrier that is more informational (You shouldn't do this) than real (you can't do this). +1 do you have a tagging suggesting? maybe barrier=road_stud ? What would you call continuous ones like the one I posted from street view? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
2011/7/1 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: just an FYI, one hyphenated tag still on the wiki in use is amenity=parking, parking=multi-storey There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through to follow our standard recommendations (BE, no abbrevs, underscores instead of spaces, hyphens where they should be). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:11:17 +0200 From: dieterdre...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through? There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through I agree with this. Maybe we should do one final vote on this on the Wiki talk page so we will not need to have a discussion about this ever again. :) -- James ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types + barrier on top of each other or nested
Am 01.07.2011 17:47, schrieb SomeoneElse: On 01/07/2011 16:49, fly wrote: A check on data how often these values are already used would be helpful, maybe we can accept some without voting. You mean like: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/barrier#values Thanks, Seems to me that there have been not many barriers mapped, so far fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:07 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:11:17 +0200 From: dieterdre...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through? There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through I agree with this. Maybe we should do one final vote on this on the Wiki talk page so we will not need to have a discussion about this ever again. :) Why would a vote on a wiki mean that we never have to have this discussion again? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
Am 04.07.2011 15:14, schrieb Anthony: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:07 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:11:17 +0200 From: dieterdre...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through? There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through I agree with this. Maybe we should do one final vote on this on the Wiki talk page so we will not need to have a discussion about this ever again. :) -1 Why would a vote on a wiki mean that we never have to have this discussion again? Better solution would be to mention the discussions on the wiki with a warning to not change the value without a discussion in advance. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Besides, the fact that someone made a mistake back in 2007 is not a good reason to make a similar mistake today. There's no good reason to replace hyphens with underscores. There are plenty of good reasons. The fact that many people seem to like the hyphen variant means that replacing hyphens with underscores is not a crazy idea. Plus, we don't have to remember whether a value has an underscore or a hyphen. Our tagging system (at least for formal values) generally uses English words, but the syntax is not English grammar. Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed: lowercase letters and with underscores and using colons to provide a namespace. Almost all programming languages do not allow hyphens in names of variables, functions, objects, and other identifiers (because the hyphens will be mistaken for the subtraction operator). While we don't really do programming with our tags, adopting the naming conventions of programmers makes things predictable and consistent. That's the reason why we have cuisine=japanese and denomination=roman_catholic instead of cuisine=Japanese and denomination=Roman Catholic. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Our tagging system (at least for formal values) generally uses English words, but the syntax is not English grammar. Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed: lowercase letters and with underscores and using colons to provide a namespace. I have a programming background, and I thought (and still think) that underscore represents a space, not a random character. Almost all programming languages do not allow hyphens in names of variables, functions, objects, and other identifiers (because the hyphens will be mistaken for the subtraction operator). Almost all is a huge exaggeration. And this isn't a programming language anyway. While we don't really do programming with our tags, adopting the naming conventions of programmers makes things predictable and consistent. It doesn't make things any more predictable or consistent. And if you want to limit the namespace, there are much better ways to do it than making arbitrary and undefined translations (sometimes, and not other times). That's the reason why we have cuisine=japanese and denomination=roman_catholic instead of cuisine=Japanese and denomination=Roman Catholic. Totally different argument. Let's settle this one first. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Besides, the fact that someone made a mistake back in 2007 is not a good reason to make a similar mistake today. There's no good reason to replace hyphens with underscores. There are plenty of good reasons. The fact that many people seem to like the hyphen variant means that replacing hyphens with underscores is not a crazy idea. Plus, we don't have to remember whether a value has an underscore or a hyphen. The thing is that a hyphen has another meaning then an underscore. We could also replace j with i because it looks better, and nobody will ever have to think whether he has to type j or i, but I wouldn't recommend this. There is a good reason to use underscores as replacement for spaces and there is good reason to keep hyphens where they apply to. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:11 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through to follow our standard recommendations (BE, no abbrevs, underscores instead of spaces, hyphens where they should be). Funnily we have: 81 instances of denomination=latter_day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter_day_saints 0 instances of denomination=latter-day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter-day_saints 331 instances of denomination=seventh_day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh_day_adventist 1 instance of denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh-day_adventist 609 instances of shop=second_hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second_hand 1 instance of shop=second-hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second-hand hyphens where they should be is hardly a standard. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/4 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Am 04.07.2011 13:03, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: 2011/7/2 Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com: I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Yes, of course these can be added to entrances (that is their main purpose). I usually tag entrances with building=entrance. I do not know/find barrier=door. Didi I miss something or do you want to add it to the proposal ? I do not want to add it, because I think that building=entrance does suit this case (maybe also barrier=gate if you want to use something from the barrier namespace). In my understanding of the wiki and tagging history, barrier=entrance does _not_ fit here, because it defines an opening rather then a closure (IMHO a door can also be closed while an opening/barrier=entrance is always open). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
How about this: The Wikipedia article on U-turn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-turn has no instance of U turn yet we use restriction=no_u_turn and not restriction=no_u-turn. 11230 instances of restriction=no_u_turn http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/restriction=no_u_turn 0 instances of restriction=no_u-turn http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/restriction=no_u-turn On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:11 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: There is many more of them. I propose to use service=drive-through to follow our standard recommendations (BE, no abbrevs, underscores instead of spaces, hyphens where they should be). Funnily we have: 81 instances of denomination=latter_day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter_day_saints 0 instances of denomination=latter-day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter-day_saints 331 instances of denomination=seventh_day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh_day_adventist 1 instance of denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh-day_adventist 609 instances of shop=second_hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second_hand 1 instance of shop=second-hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second-hand hyphens where they should be is hardly a standard. -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: 81 instances of denomination=latter_day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter_day_saints see below 331 instances of denomination=seventh_day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh_day_adventist 1 instance of denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://www.adventist.org/ suggests to use seventh-day_adventist. Feel free to correct it, I never heard about them so I won't touch this. 609 instances of shop=second_hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second_hand my dictionary tells me that the correct writing is second hand so second_hand seems correct. hyphens where they should be is hardly a standard. IMHO this thread is about drive-through and not about exotic churches. I suggest to correct errateous other tags, but it has few if not nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The best way to synchronize tags is to use uniformly the same writing in the wiki, in the presets and in the renderers and to ignore misspelled tags in the renderer (on the main page of OSM, I agree that generic rendering rules would try to catch as much information as possible). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:59 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: 81 instances of denomination=latter_day_saints http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=latter_day_saints see below 331 instances of denomination=seventh_day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh_day_adventist 1 instance of denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/denomination=seventh-day_adventist http://www.adventist.org/ suggests to use seventh-day_adventist. Feel free to correct it, I never heard about them so I won't touch this. I prefer to convert hyphens to underscores so why would I correct this? hyphens where they should be is hardly a standard. IMHO this thread is about drive-through and not about exotic churches. I suggest to correct errateous other tags, but it has few if not nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It has everything to do with this thread. The subject of this thread is service=drive-through or drive_through which is not really about drive-through lanes themselves but whether we should use hyphens or underscores in our tag values. So giving examples of existing tags where hyphens were converted to underscores provides an incentive to be consistent and to use underscores instead of hyphens. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
btw.: I adjusted the wiki page so that it reflects the original tag and the potlatch preset (JOSM has no preset for this) as well as the English spelling. btw2: The problem is present with drive-in as well. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: I prefer to convert hyphens to underscores so why would I correct this? and what do you suggest to convert underscores to? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I prefer to convert hyphens to underscores so why would I correct this? Only hyphens? Why? Just because you found a few other places where this was done? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:51 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: add it to the proposal ? I do not know/find barrier=door. Didi I miss something or do you want to I do not want to add it, because I think that building=entrance does I'm using barrier=door from time to time when a private service street is closed by a door (not a gate) or a named path or footway, again when it is closed physically by a door (it is private but has a street name and deserves several building entrances with different address numbers). Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/4 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:51 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using barrier=door from time to time when a private service street is closed by a door (not a gate) or a named path or footway, again when it is closed physically by a door (it is private but has a street name and deserves several building entrances with different address numbers). Could you explain or give an example for a door leading to the outside of beeing completely outside (e.g. part of a wall or fence) that is not a gate? IMHO gate does comprise doors (especially doors that lead to the outside). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On 04/07/2011 14:59, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com: 609 instances of shop=second_hand http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=second_hand my dictionary tells me that the correct writing is second hand so second_hand seems correct. The adjective 'second-hand' is derived from the phrase 'at second hand'. When a phrase consisting of two separate words is used adjectivally it is usual in English to join the words with a hyphen: 'second-hand goods' = 'goods obtained at second hand'. The OED explicitly recommends the hyphened version for adjectival uses, although not all its illustrative quotations conform. -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Our tagging system (at least for formal values) generally uses English words, but the syntax is not English grammar. Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed: lowercase letters and with underscores and using colons to provide a namespace. I have a programming background, and I thought (and still think) that underscore represents a space, not a random character. Underscore does usually represent a space in programming languages but it may also represents other characters that would otherwise not be allowed in names of variables, functions, etc., like hyphens, slashes, periods, etc. If you want to use a hyphenated word or name as an identifier, the usual method I've seen is to delete the hyphen. But replacing the hyphen with an underscore is a perfectly acceptable solution. For example UTF-8 can become UTF_8 as these examples show: http://www.google.com/codesearch#searchq=%22utf_8%22 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Our tagging system (at least for formal values) generally uses English words, but the syntax is not English grammar. Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed: lowercase letters and with underscores and using colons to provide a namespace. I have a programming background, and I thought (and still think) that underscore represents a space, not a random character. Underscore does usually represent a space in programming languages but it may also represents other characters that would otherwise not be allowed in names of variables, functions, etc., like hyphens, slashes, periods, etc. I don't deny that the underscore can be used in a programming language to represent a hyphen. I was denying that Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed. In fact, you don't even elaborate on how the formal keys and values have been constructed other than to assert that hyphens are replaced with underscores (something which would *not* be immediately recognized, as this is only done in a small number of cases, and even in those small number of cases it isn't always even apparent without doing research that a hyphen was correct in the first place). I'm all for consistency and standards. But that means we should come up with a formal, standardized naming scheme. And if we're going to do that, I see no reason not to include hyphens, nor to replace characters other than spaces with underscores. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I don't deny that the underscore can be used in a programming language to represent a hyphen. I was denying that Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed. Essentially, by saying that you're saying I don't have a good programming background. I do have a good programming background. But, among other things, this isn't a programming language. It's more of a markup language. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I don't deny that the underscore can be used in a programming language to represent a hyphen. I was denying that Anyone with an good programming background would immediately recognize how the formal keys and values have been constructed. In fact, you don't even elaborate on how the formal keys and values have been constructed other than to assert that hyphens are replaced with underscores (something which would *not* be immediately recognized, as this is only done in a small number of cases, and even in those small number of cases it isn't always even apparent without doing research that a hyphen was correct in the first place). Your point actually gives us a reason to use underscores instead of hyphens. If many people can't remember that two words are correctly hyphenated (without doing research that a hyphen was correct in the first place), why should we force correct hyphens when we can use underscores? There's a precedent in programming to use underscores to represent other characters other than spaces and there are several tags in existence that do just that. The reason why there are a small number of cases is because there are really a small number of hyphenated words that we decided to use as tag values. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: Your point actually gives us a reason to use underscores instead of hyphens. If many people can't remember that two words are correctly hyphenated (without doing research that a hyphen was correct in the first place), why should we force correct hyphens when we can use underscores? why should we use either? We could omit all of them ;-) Seriously, you seem to have picked on this particular issue and are now advocating wrong spelling pretending this would make mapping easier. IMHO correct spelling (inherent logics) is always easier then rules how to do it wrong in order to do it right. I know and can see from the lists that there are apparently some people in the project with problems in orthography (and I include myself for the lists in English language), but making arbitrary rules will not improve the situation. I also agree that tags are not written in a #@^′\programming_-_language_^* cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:07 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/7/4 Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com: Seriously, you seem to have picked on this particular issue and are now advocating wrong spelling pretending this would make mapping easier. IMHO correct spelling (inherent logics) is always easier then rules how to do it wrong in order to do it right. I know and can see from the lists that there are apparently some people in the project with problems in orthography (and I include myself for the lists in English language), but making arbitrary rules will not improve the situation. I also agree that tags are not written in a #@^′\programming_-_language_^* I'm not advocating for wrong spelling, but I don't think hyphenation is part of spelling, but of grammar/syntax. Wikipedia says that spelling is the writing of one or more words with letters and diacritics and hyphens are neither letters nor diacritics but is a punctuation mark. The use of correct punctuation is part of grammar and not of spelling. Yes, OSM tags are not part of any programming language, but I don't consider drive_through as an instance of incorrect spelling. Yes, it's not correct English grammar, but OSM tags don't use English grammar anyway. Still, it doesn't make sense that some people incorrectly use spaces instead of hyphens implies that we should convert hyphens into spaces (which then get converted into underscores). If we're going to standardize, and one of the two choices is right while the other one is wrong, then we should standardize on the right usage. The exception to this is if we want to make the hyphen an illegal character, and you seem to have presented no argument for this other than the fact that it is done in other, completely different, situations, for reasons which have no applicability to this situation (service=drive-through is not going to be mistaken for service equals drive minus through). And I even presented a precedent of my own, which is a much much closer analogy than C/Perl/Pascal/etc variable names: SGML name/id tokens, which consist of letters, digits, periods, hyphens, underscores, and colons (for namespaces). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Still, it doesn't make sense that some people incorrectly use spaces instead of hyphens implies that we should convert hyphens into spaces (which then get converted into underscores). If we're going to standardize, and one of the two choices is right while the other one is wrong, then we should standardize on the right usage. The exception to this is if we want to make the hyphen an illegal character, and you seem to have presented no argument for this other than the fact that it is done in other, completely different, situations, for reasons which have no applicability to this situation (service=drive-through is not going to be mistaken for service equals drive minus through). And I even presented a precedent of my own, which is a much much closer analogy than C/Perl/Pascal/etc variable names: SGML name/id tokens, which consist of letters, digits, periods, hyphens, underscores, and colons (for namespaces). OK, I think we have provided ample arguments for both sides. Only three of us have debated this point in the last few hours and I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on this so that we can gauge if there's a consensus for whatever. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: [...] and I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on this so that we can gauge if there's a consensus for whatever. There obviously isn't a consensus, unless you're saying you've changed your mind. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] service=drive-through or drive_through?
On 7/4/2011 12:14 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: OK, I think we have provided ample arguments for both sides. Only three of us have debated this point in the last few hours and I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on this so that we can gauge if there's a consensus for whatever. I think it would be good to set a guideline for future tag creation. That guideline should reflect existing tags, which the consumers can already recognize and can process without crashing. It might look like: all lowercase no spaces replace spaces with underscores hyphens allowed In the case of the existing drive-through / drive_through, it is just a token, and the actual value doesn't matter (so say the readers of 160-some other languages). It is worth choosing a single tag based on existing convention - what is already tagged, editor presets, rendering, etc. I realize the last sentence won't clear up the argument, but that's my opinion. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
