Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
I was thinking of using the ref tag as the publicly used term for the entity. For example, there is a bus route 110 for SamTrans (San Mateo county, California). I imagine the ref for this route is 110. There could be some added information to specify this is a bus route for SamTrans, as opposed to a room number in some academic building or an exit on a freeway. Perhaps tags such as ref:type = Bus Route, and ref:scope = SamTrans The external database would also specify the same reference, and then the two could be matched. Dave ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
2012/9/7 Dave Sutter :
> easily managed in a different database. To take a step back, the
> obvious example of external databases tied to a map is businesses. It
> would be nice to have a database of businesses.
+1, e.g. to link from osm to it (hopefully would leave no room for
ambiguities, which otherwise (e.g. name, operator) still remain).
> The business is placed
> on the map using its postal address and possibly additional
> information.
well, you can always place everything on the map with the address
(most web maps work like this), if the address is in OSM.
> This allows for a much richer set of data for the
> business. I don't believe there is such a database tied to OSM?
the idea has already been brought up a couple of times, but I am not
aware of an open database tied closely to OSM at the moment.
> This idea can be extend to more general addresses using the ref tag.
> If the ferry routes have a ref tag the external data can cite the ref.
> That database can hold ferry and other transit schedules. Managing
> this seems like it would be much easier than managing through the map.
> Of course, this also requires an external database.
probably several of them ;-), one for public transport, one for
accomodation, one for restaurants, one (or many) for shops, one for
public administration ("where do I have to go for a new passport?"),
one for industrial production, ...
Of course these could also be unified in one big db, but not sure if
this makes sense, as there is huge differences for the data types e.g.
between restaurants (user judgements, diets offered, etc.), a cinema
database (which films are shown, how big are the rooms, ...), and a
public transport database (schedules).
> I would like to see the ref tag formalism expanded a bit to allow for
> this sort of generalized addresses, so that an external database could
> uniquely reference an object using the ref and related tags. Maybe by
> adding some tags for context for the specific ref?
maybe "ref" is not the best tag to do this. Better use sub-keys
(ref:opengeodb=123), there is also uuid, website, url, ...
> Having said this, I am not saying I am against also tagging
> information on a map. I don't think there is a well defined dividing
> line between what should be on the map and what should be placed
> outside the map.
the more dynamic the information is, the less we want it directly in OSM.
Cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
I am fairly new to OSM so I apologize for my inexperience with it. Some information like ferry schedules seems like it would be more easily managed in a different database. To take a step back, the obvious example of external databases tied to a map is businesses. It would be nice to have a database of businesses. The business is placed on the map using its postal address and possibly additional information. This allows for a much richer set of data for the business. I don't believe there is such a database tied to OSM? This idea can be extend to more general addresses using the ref tag. If the ferry routes have a ref tag the external data can cite the ref. That database can hold ferry and other transit schedules. Managing this seems like it would be much easier than managing through the map. Of course, this also requires an external database. I would like to see the ref tag formalism expanded a bit to allow for this sort of generalized addresses, so that an external database could uniquely reference an object using the ref and related tags. Maybe by adding some tags for context for the specific ref? Generalized addressing applies also to things like stores in a shopping mall, gates at an airport, aisle/shelf/bin in a retail store, etc. These are all things that would be nice to reference from an external database. Having said this, I am not saying I am against also tagging information on a map. I don't think there is a well defined dividing line between what should be on the map and what should be placed outside the map. Dave ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
Am 07/set/2012 um 14:50 schrieb Janko Mihelić : > If we have a case of one boat going across a river, it should be one line, > one set of tags. But here on the Croatian coast, things are a bit more > complicated than that. Lines even have different variations that are used on > different days. If we want to have this in our database, I'm afraid we have > to make things a bit more complicated. It does not necessarily have to become complicated, we could simply have one object per variation (those objects could of course also be relations to reutilize the geometry). Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
In that case they go to different terminals. Duration is often longer at night on some crossings to allow passengers time to sleep. Phil -- Sent from my Nokia N9 On 07/09/2012 14:00 John Sturdy wrote: There may be more than one duration of trip on the same route --- for example, conventional ferries and fast catamarans / hydrofoils sharing a route. (Fishguard <---> Rosslare used to do this, for example.) __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
There may be more than one duration of trip on the same route --- for example, conventional ferries and fast catamarans / hydrofoils sharing a route. (Fishguard <---> Rosslare used to do this, for example.) __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
2012/9/7 Martin Koppenhoefer > IMHO you can tag this either on the ferry lines (ways) or on the > relations, but if you do it you will have to have a distinct object > for each line / all lines that share the same properties, i.e. you > might have to add more objects (relations/ways) in order to tag the > travel time. > I agree, this is ok for simple cases. why would you want to make a "master relation"? Relations are not > categories. > In the new accepted public transport scheme you have one relation that represents the bus going from A-B and a different relation that represents B-A. Since it is the same bus line, they are then put into a master relation. I don't know if that is considered a case of "relation as a category". In a similar way, you have a ferry that goes from A-B-C-D (different islands). Where do I write the duration from island A-B, B-C and C-D? I guess I can make a relation for every one of those trips (a relation because those same ways are used buy other ferry lines). Following the public transport scheme logic, I can then put those relations in a master relation, to show that this is the same ferry line (and this master relation would have a ref, operator, etc..). Each ferry line would have a different master relation. If we have a case of one boat going across a river, it should be one line, one set of tags. But here on the Croatian coast, things are a bit more complicated than that. Lines even have different variations that are used on different days. If we want to have this in our database, I'm afraid we have to make things a bit more complicated. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
2012/9/7 Janko Mihelić : > How do we address durations[1] of ferry lines? It can't be tagged on the > way, because different ferry lines have different speeds. And you can't put > it on the relation, because one relation can represent several different > trips, from island to island. IMHO you can tag this either on the ferry lines (ways) or on the relations, but if you do it you will have to have a distinct object for each line / all lines that share the same properties, i.e. you might have to add more objects (relations/ways) in order to tag the travel time. > Is the solution to make a separate relation for every trip from a terminal > to a terminal, and then put them in a master relation? That would seem > similar to the new public transport proposal[2]. why would you want to make a "master relation"? Relations are not categories. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?
How do we address durations[1] of ferry lines? It can't be tagged on the way, because different ferry lines have different speeds. And you can't put it on the relation, because one relation can represent several different trips, from island to island. Is the solution to make a separate relation for every trip from a terminal to a terminal, and then put them in a master relation? That would seem similar to the new public transport proposal[2]. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:duration [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
