Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. It's widely available at filling stations in rural areas of the Republic of Ireland (where it takes the form of green diesel --- different colouring on each side of the border helps to identify cross-border misuse as distinct from normal misuse); I'm not sure of the details of the regulations but farm tractors may use it even when on a public road. __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On 12/11/2012 16:55, Janko Mihelić wrote: First, I think we have no tags for a fuel station that boats can use. Taginfo says we have a tag harbour:fuel:diesel used 66 times, but it doesn't look quite right to me. This tag is maybe used to tag a harbour that has a fuel station. We have just one tag fuel:marine=yes which looks right to me. Can we put that one in the wiki? Janko, as to your first question, a suitable tag is that used by OpenSeaMap: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
Dana utorak, 13. studenoga 2012., korisnik Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com je napisao: Janko, as to your first question, a suitable tag is that used by OpenSeaMap: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities Thank you! I'll put a reference on the amenity=fuel article. That is solved. We still have to find a tag for low tax fuel. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
2012/11/13 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities it is used 35 times. The tagging scheme proposed there doesn't really make sense in the contest of OSM. 1. These are not seamarks. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of seamark:type=small_craft_facility together with seamark:small_craft_facility:category=restaurant you can simply tag amenity=restaurant. Or is the seamark definition of a restaurant (A commercial establishment serving food.) somehow incompatible with the osm definition? The same applies to doctor, showers, toilet, car park, I'd propose to add a subtag to a petrol station that can be accessed also by boat and a main tag for a petrol station that can be only accessed from the water. (Or alternatively always a different main tag and add another object in the case that it is a combined petrol station for cars and boats). The tag would be something as simple as amenity=boat_fuel. Maybe we should also have a distinction between floating fuel stations (on the water in a vessel) and the ones on solid ground, i.e. another tag amenity=floating_fuel_station. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On 13/11/2012 17:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: The tagging scheme proposed there doesn't really make sense in the contest of OSM. in the context of OSM is the operative condition, that is why I pointed out that the tags I detailed were OpenSeaMap tags. 1. These are not seamarks. seamark: is the OpenSeaMap prefix for any marine navigation object that appears in the IHO object catalogue. That does not cover only markers, but any object that can appear on a marine chart. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated Yes it is, but it was invented by the IHO, not us. We merely transcribed it into OSM format tags. 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of There are many objects that are of interest to both StreetMap and SeaMap consumers. In these cases, tags from both schemes would be used. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] [Feedback call] Waterway mooring places
Hi mappers! As part of the Open Riverboat Map project [1], some mappers and me have started a work that intends to coordinate tagging for the navigable waterways. One of the first tagging question we need to address is river mooring. Here is the summary of some days of discussion in #OSM. Regarding inland moorings, we can distinguish three categories: harbour, seasonal administered visitor mooring, unregulated mooring. Here is how I think we can define those categories: * harbour: it has an harbour master, it is open all the day long, one can have a long term mooring contract (ex.: [2] or [3]) * seasonal administered visitor mooring (halte nautique in French): someone administer the mooring (but it could be free of charge), and you have services like toilets, electricity and water, but a boat cannot stay here for a long term, and generally it's closed in winter (ex.: [4] or [5]) * unregulated mooring: it's just a place designed for mooring, but with no services and no specific authority managing it (ex. a pontoon before or after a lock) Now, what are the actual uses: * both harbours and seasonal administered visitor moorings are generally tagged using leisure=marina in a node * generally, permanent harbours are also tagged with harbour=yes and all the harbour:* namespaced metadatas ; also, some of the administered visitor mooring have been tagged like this * when tagged, unregulated moorings have been tagged with mooring=yes and made_man=pier generally What are the problems? * the English wiki [6] say: An facility in which smaller pleasure boats and yachts are moored should not be tagged as a harbour, and should be tagged using leisure=marina instead. Note that both French and German versions of this page define a harbour:category=marina value. * we need to be consistent between harbours, seaside or inland ones, and all kind of mooring we can have to map, regarding the metadatas, like: maxlength, maxdraft, maxspeed, maxstay, VHF_channel, phone, etc.; some of them are namespaced with harbour, for example harbour:ship:maxdraft or harbour:VHF_channel. Needs: 1. being able to distinguish the big harbour of Rotterdam from the pontoon near the lock behind my boat ; 2. get a continuous tagging schema between inland and seaside mooring places 3. keep metadatas consistent between all those categories of mooring ** Proposal ** Principles: 1. stop namespacing when not needed (harbour:ship:maxdraft = maxdraft) 2. distinguish between physical mooring information (a pontoon, a pier, etc.) and administrative mooring information 3. use a continuous tagging schema for all the administrative mooring places, starting from the seasonal boats stop in a nice Burgundy town to the Antwerpen harbour, no matter if it's for professional boats or pleasure ones Tagging schema: * physical mooring info should be tagged using ways (man_made=pier, etc.) with the tag mooring=yes, just like it is already done, * as soon as the place can be defined as an administrative mooring place (basically if it has a name as mooring place), add a node with at least harbour=yes, name=foo (protip: if you cannot add name key, it's not an administrative mooring place) and harbour:category= defined (use harbour:category=marina for pleasure mooring places); the harbour:category key will be the differential element between harbours kind * add metadatas to this node, but avoiding useless namespacing: VHF_channel=, maxdraft, etc. Basically, namespaces should be used only to prevent name clashes. So for example name:it makes sense because we cannot have many name key, while we can have to deal with many names; in the other hand, maxdraft for a harbour node can apply only to boats; * seasonal mooring places should be tagged also with seasonal=yes * leisure=marina can be used for the whole area when it makes sense, but avoiding using it as descriptive node Thanks for reading. Feedback expected. Yohan [1] https://github.com/yohanboniface/OpenRiverboatMap [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.690838lon=2.390857zoom=18layers=M [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.10492lon=5.2604zoom=17layers=M [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.387684lon=2.96002zoom=18layers=M [5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.416505lon=3.241911zoom=18layers=M [6] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Harbour ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
2012/11/13 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com: seamark: is the OpenSeaMap prefix for any marine navigation object that appears in the IHO object catalogue. That does not cover only markers, but any object that can appear on a marine chart. I am aware of this idea behind, but I don't second it. Neither the makers of bicycle maps not the makers of public transport maps or those who make hiking maps are using a tagging scheme with lots of prefixes like bicycle-mark:type=ordinary_facility bicycle-mark:ordinary_facility=bicycle_pump or stuff like this. Keep it simple. We are all using the same database, and having overly long tags doesn't help for clarity. There is no point in having all objects that appear on a certain type of map with the same prefix, you will have to know the specific tags anyway. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated Yes it is, but it was invented by the IHO, not us. We merely transcribed it into OSM format tags. yes, this is actually part of the critics: the tags were merely transcribed from another system but it would have been desirable to adopt the system to the way OSM organizes tags, at least for stuff that was already tagged differently in OSM. 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of There are many objects that are of interest to both StreetMap and SeaMap consumers. In these cases, tags from both schemes would be used. Mere duplication of the tag values within different keys doesn't really help anyone. There shouldn't be recommendations for stuff that already has its own tag in OSM but this small craft facilites page is full of them. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities I'd also question tag couples like foo=bar together with bar=xyz if foo=bar doesn't convey a reasonable amount of information (i.e. where you would never be able to use foo=bar without bar=xyz). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Feedback call] Waterway mooring places
2012/11/13 Yohan Boniface yohanbonif...@free.fr: ** Proposal ** Principles: 1. stop namespacing when not needed (harbour:ship:maxdraft = maxdraft) +1 Basically, namespaces should be used only to prevent name clashes. So for example name:it makes sense because we cannot have many name key, while we can have to deal with many names; in the other hand, maxdraft for a harbour node can apply only to boats; * seasonal mooring places should be tagged also with seasonal=yes * leisure=marina can be used for the whole area when it makes sense, but avoiding using it as descriptive node +1, in general better use areas instead of nodes if the object is not a mere point (say less than 1 square meter), especially when it comes to larger objects like marinas, harbours or mooring places. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
