Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Le 03/06/2013 04:59, Brad Neuhauser a écrit : To me, wikipedia captures well the English usage of bakery: A *bakery* (or *baker's shop*) is an establishment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment which produces and sells flour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour-based food baked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking in an oven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oven such as bread http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread, cakes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake, pastries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastries, and pies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakery There are not the distinct types as there seem to be in German. What about adding an optional bread=yes/no, pastry=yes/no etc to shop=bakery? That allows the differentiation in German without distorting the common meaning of the English word. Brad +1 shop=bakery (the following tag will have a default value to yes) bread=yes/no pastry=yes/no viennoiseries=yes/no (or other tag) sandwiches=yes/no fast-food=yes/no [1] The French legislation distinguishes between a bakery (where bread must be baked in its oven) and dépôt de pain (bread dump) without oven. So we can had the tag baking=no for those shop without oven. [1] http://www.briochedoree.fr/produits/ -- FrViPofm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
On 03/giu/2013, at 04:18, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: So would this new tag be for these places as well, or should we designate them shop=cupcake or shop=cinnamon_buns, etc? I'm certainly in favor or supporting tags that make local sense, but where we can generalize a solution, I think we should, and before I know if this is a generalized solution, I feel like I need to know how these examples would be handled Don't know these shops, but shop=cinnamon_buns seems too specific to me (better use a subtag), while shop=cookies sounds reasonable if you don't want to put them into one of the existing categories. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
On 03/giu/2013, at 08:55, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote: So we can had the tag baking=no for those shop without oven. there is a tag oven in use with values like wood_fired to indicate the type of oven, e.g. for a pizzeria, you could use oven=no for the pain depots. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Better be explicit and use
oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
and
oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)
Jo
2013/6/3 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
On 03/giu/2013, at 08:55, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote:
So we can had the tag baking=no for those shop without oven.
there is a tag oven in use with values like wood_fired to indicate the
type of oven, e.g. for a pizzeria, you could use oven=no for the pain
depots.
cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
2013/6/3 Jo winfi...@gmail.com
Better be explicit and use
+1
oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
(oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
instead of a simple yes (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
ingredient for higher quality pizza but also bread.
And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)
yes, the same here in Italy. Probably in all or most European countries
this is a common distinction and yes, bakeries often offer also pastry (but
usually the less complicated ones). Confectionery is more rare here, but it
does exist and is quite different from pastry producing businesses
(it:pasticceria) as the confectionery products don't contain flour.
Another edge case might be it:gelateria, which is ice cream makers
(artisanal producers, ice cream made in the shop), which often also offer
pastry containing ice_cream fillings, semi-freddo (half-frozen), etc.
cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Hi.
I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium
for this issue.
At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to
bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still
warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread
is transported from somewhere else.
So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something
like that.
regards
Peter
Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
2013/6/3 Jo winfi...@gmail.com
Better be explicit and use
+1
oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
(oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
instead of a simple yes (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
ingredient for higher quality pizza but also bread.
And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)
yes, the same here in Italy. Probably in all or most European countries
this is a common distinction and yes, bakeries often offer also pastry (but
usually the less complicated ones). Confectionery is more rare here, but it
does exist and is quite different from pastry producing businesses
(it:pasticceria) as the confectionery products don't contain flour.
Another edge case might be it:gelateria, which is ice cream makers
(artisanal producers, ice cream made in the shop), which often also offer
pastry containing ice_cream fillings, semi-freddo (half-frozen), etc.
cheers,
Martin
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[Tagging] how to tag professional schools
Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag professional/trade/vocational schools. Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music schools. Found this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school Which looked promising until checking its usage: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school Any body know of a better or more established way? Mesi anpil, Brian and Evens http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/michel%20evens ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools
For Map Kibera, we have used education:type=* http://taginfo.mapkibera.org/keys/education:type#values Not sure it's better or more established than any other. We'd like to see some consensus around it. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Brian Wolford worldwidewolf...@gmail.com To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org; Evens Michel micheleve...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 12:08 PM Subject: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag professional/trade/vocational schools. Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music schools. Found this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school Which looked promising until checking its usage: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school Any body know of a better or more established way? Mesi anpil, Brian and Evens ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Peter Wendorff wendorff@... writes: Hi. I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium for this issue. At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread is transported from somewhere else. So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something like that. regards Peter Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2013/6/3 Jo winfixit@... oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot. oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else. currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail (oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical instead of a simple yes (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical ingredient for higher quality pizza but also bread. May I suggest that we might also use the relatively new key craft=* (I have found it mostly useful for bookbinder and blacksmith and such but could be worth a try) This is supposed to be used to point out that it is an artisan in the shop making the things you buy. So in France one could add craft=baker to a boulangeri while just having shop=bakery on the depots. I can also see that oven=stone_oven and other variants could find their interested mappers here in Sweden, where such bread has become popular. By the way, we also have a lot of non-bakeries that make what we call bake-off (doing the last part of the baking in an electric oven in the store, not just heating them up) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Brian Wolford worldwidewolf...@gmail.comwrote: Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag professional/trade/vocational schools. Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music schools. Found this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school Which looked promising until checking its usage: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school Any body know of a better or more established way? It seems people are using amenity=school combined with either of the following keys: school:type=* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school:type school_type=* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school_type The question is, does amenity=school imply only general education? Or can it also be used for specialized schools? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
Follow up. If tagging a small area that has, say, 8 cannons, but not wanting to map them individually. What is the best tag to use to indicate number of cannons there? capacity=* doesn't seem right. Is there something like count=*? Mesi, b 2013/5/31 René Kirchhoff rene-kirchh...@arcor.de Yes! :) see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historische_Objekte#Kanone http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=15lat=53.89357lon=11.46009layers=BFTTdetail=3select=n1132388089 Gruß René * » Check the Monuments! «* Viele der als historic=monument erfassten Objekte sind in Wirklichkeit kein Monument. Sie wurden mangels passender Tags oder aus Unkenntnis als Monument erfaßt. Die Karte CheckTheMonuments will bei der Korrektur unterstützen, weitere Details im Wiki: Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments Karte: http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools
I think that the OSM wikihttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dschoolis both precise and good on the use of amenity=school Use amenity http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity=*school* to identify a place where pupils, normally between the ages of about 5 and 18 are taught under the supervision of teachers. This includes primary and secondary schools. Intuitively the K-12 (primary + secondary schools - often the combination of elementary + highschool) are school in this sense. Pre-school and kindergarten are sometimes called school but are part of the school system in the same way. The primary and (sometimes) secondary schools are often also the more or less compulsory schools. I think if would be best if the OSM tagging clearly kept amenity=school for this (K-12/primary+secondary) and we used other tags for other types of schools / educational places. And this is what the original question was about -- how to tag other than K-12 schools? The closest (partial) solution we could find is the proposed amenity=trade_school (that has only one (1!) occurrance in the db). I added that to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education_features page -- and we'll be likely using that for the various professional training facilities that we run into on the ground in Haiti unless something better comes up. Related to this: I would personally like to see a very general education POI tag that would be good for any and every educational POI that we run into, which doesn't have a dedicated tag (such as amenity=school, =college, =university, =kindergarten, =driving_school, =dojo, =what-not). Does anyone else think that such tag would be good -- and if yes do you think that amenity=educationhttp://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=education (used currently 109 times) could be acceptable for that? Cheers, -Jaakko -- jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +509-37-269154 * http://go.hel.cc/about.me On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Brian Wolford worldwidewolf...@gmail.com wrote: Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag professional/trade/vocational schools. Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music schools. Found this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school Which looked promising until checking its usage: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school Any body know of a better or more established way? It seems people are using amenity=school combined with either of the following keys: school:type=* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school:type school_type=* http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school_type The question is, does amenity=school imply only general education? Or can it also be used for specialized schools? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
Hello, why do not you use 8 nodes? No Mapper previously used a area for cannons. Many OSM Mapper like more details. I also :) By René ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons
On 6/3/13 3:49 PM, René Kirchhoff wrote: Hello, why do not you use 8 nodes? No Mapper previously used a area for cannons. Many OSM Mapper like more details. I also :) i could probably develop a fairly extensive taxonomy for cannons from the American Civil War. Napoleans, Parrot Rifles, Columbiads, Rodmans, you name it... richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools
On 03.06.2013 21:33, Jaakko Helleranta.com wrote: I think that the OSM wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dschool is both precise and good on the use of amenity=school Use amenity http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity=*school* to identify a place where pupils, normally between the ages of about 5 and 18 are taught under the supervision of teachers. This includes primary and secondary schools. Intuitively the K-12 (primary + secondary schools - often the combination of elementary + highschool) are school in this sense. Pre-school and kindergarten are sometimes called school but are part of the school system in the same way. The primary and (sometimes) secondary schools are often also the more or less compulsory schools. I think if would be best if the OSM tagging clearly kept amenity=school for this (K-12/primary+secondary) and we used other tags for other types of schools / educational places. And this is what the original question was about -- how to tag other than K-12 schools? The closest (partial) solution we could find is the proposed amenity=trade_school (that has only one (1!) occurrance in the db). I added that to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education_features page -- and we'll be likely using that for the various professional training facilities that we run into on the ground in Haiti unless something better comes up. Related to this: I would personally like to see a very general education POI tag that would be good for any and every educational POI that we run into, which doesn't have a dedicated tag (such as amenity=school, =college, =university, =kindergarten, =driving_school, =dojo, =what-not). Does anyone else think that such tag would be good -- and if yes do you think that amenity=education http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=education (used currently 109 times) could be acceptable for that? +1 even then all already existing tags could be included within the education subtags. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
Hi, I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and a question about underground features can't currently find answer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which can host them simultaneously. The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on this photo : http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ? If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each. I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line dedicated question. Do someone have ever encounter that situation ? Many thanks in advance, cheers. *François Lacombe* francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu http://www.infos-reseaux.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] When was landuse=reservoir deprecated ?
Hey When was landuse=reservoir [1] deprecated ? There was only little discussion on tagging@ about water=* [2][3]. Now we have to different uses which do not fit together (eg, water=lake;intermittent ?). Anyway landuse=reservoir was never deprecated and has 20+ uses and might not be exact equal to water=reservoir. There is no problem with using both tags at the same time. Cheers fly -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse=reservoir [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.tagging/7247/focus=7309 [3] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.tagging/8547/focus=8556 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
On 03.06.2013 20:04, Johan Jönsson wrote: Peter Wendorff wendorff@... writes: Hi. I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium for this issue. At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread is transported from somewhere else. So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something like that. regards Peter Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2013/6/3 Jo winfixit@... oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot. oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else. currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail (oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical instead of a simple yes (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical ingredient for higher quality pizza but also bread. May I suggest that we might also use the relatively new key craft=* (I have found it mostly useful for bookbinder and blacksmith and such but could be worth a try) This is supposed to be used to point out that it is an artisan in the shop making the things you buy. So in France one could add craft=baker to a boulangeri while just having shop=bakery on the depots. +1 So we already have a tag to show the differences. I can also see that oven=stone_oven and other variants could find their interested mappers here in Sweden, where such bread has become popular. By the way, we also have a lot of non-bakeries that make what we call bake-off (doing the last part of the baking in an electric oven in the store, not just heating them up) Maybe we can find a tag for this, too. For me the more important point is if was baked all in one or if it is bake-off and not where the oven is located. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel
On 04.06.2013 00:26, François Lacombe wrote: Hi, I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and a question about underground features can't currently find answer. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which can host them simultaneously. The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on this photo : http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ? If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each. I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line dedicated question. Do someone have ever encounter that situation ? Mmh, type=tunnel is already in use [1] but it is used for the whole tunnel, e.g. to combine several tubes and the infrastucture like escape ways and air-system. We could use a tag like tubes= or number_of_tubes= for the relation and draw the outline. fly -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
