Re: [Tagging] Usefulness of bicycle=dismount on ways
Am 20/ott/2013 um 22:22 schrieb Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com: we should have a separate no-pushing-bicycles tag that's not part of bicycle=* (bicycle:pushed=*...? or is there anything in actual use?) not sure about actual use, but I'd prefer bicycle_pushing=no or pushing_bicycle=no or sth. different for bringing your bicycle (object) somewhere, and NOT a subtag of cycling, i.e. not bicycle:* cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Vote result - shop=musical_instrument
Dear all, The tag shop=musical_instrument has been accepted. There have been 12 people who voted, of which 11 voted in favour of the proposal and 1 against. Thanks everyone who voted. (Announcing the results of votes seems not common practice, but I think it would be a good habit.) -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Waterway river vs stream
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.dewrote: As far as verifiability is concerned - it seems the question how far an able person can jump is not an issue here. As i said before i would interpret the rule from a practical standpoint, i.e. tag as stream if i generally would assume crossing this waterway with dry feet would be considered feasible on a hike by most people without disabilities By that standard, a few hundred miles of the Arkansas River at normal stage would be a stream, including nearly everything from the Zink Weir downtown to where the Verdigris River meets the Arkansas near Muskogee. That's just silly. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Waterway river vs stream
On Monday 21 October 2013, Tyrfing OSM wrote: Yes, changing the definition of a tag is a problem. Like Kytömaa points out it seems like the jumping distinction has become stricter during the years: Maybe you can just jump over it (2007), An active person should be able to jump over it (2009), an active, able-bodied person is able to jump over it (2013). This is probably due to the increased awareness among mappers that verfiability of the tagging is of fundamental importance. The verifiability page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability) has been initially created in 2009. Also it seems like different people has interpreted the distinction between river and stream differently. At least according to posts in this thread. So I'm not too sure that the data already in the database is coded consistently according to your interpretion. Probably not - and more importantly there are tons of data from imports with no informed decision on river vs. stream for the individual way at all. This does not mean of course that there is no value in keeping this information in the database, especially if for the future there is a clearly verifiable rule. Something like crossable=* might be a good idea. Also some sort of tag for amount of water flow might be an idea (like waterflow=high/low/42 m^3 /s). Practically this will be next to impossible to determine except at a measurement station where it would make more sense to tag the node. If someone has an idea for a practically measurable quantity that has a clear relation to the discharge of a river that would be useful to tag of course. Greetings, -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Automatic edit - RFC - Musical instrument
Dear all, # Proposal I propose to automatically change all objects tagged with shop=musical_instruments into shop=musical_instrument. # Rationale Currently, some shops for music instruments are tagged with the singular form shop=musical_instrument, while others are tagged with the plural form shop=musical_instruments. Having only one form makes life easier for both mappers and data consumers. I realize that automatic edits are often undesirable. When badly executed, automatic edits can easily introduce additional mistakes, especially when executed by mappers without local knowledge. Automatic edits can also have undesired side-effects. Moreover, automatic edits might offend mappers who do not agree with the edit. In particular, I recognize that it is important that: 1. automatic edits have wide community support; 2. automatic edits do not introduce mistakes or otherwise destroy the work of local mappers. I believe that in this case, both of these requirements are satisfied. There is wide community support for the singular form, both by actual mappers (1356 instances of the singular versus 126 instances of the plural), and by members of the tagging mailing list (a vote shows that the singular is preferred by 11 out of 12 voters). Moreover, the difference is only grammatical, so there is no risk that mistakes will be introduced. In addition, I will take the following measurements to minimize the risk of negative side effects: - I will follow, of course, the Automated Edits code of conduct and the Mechanical Edit Policy. - I have created a page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Math1985/Musical_instrument documenting this automatic edit. - I will discuss this edit at the tagging mailing list. Although not formally required, in order to guarantee community support, I will invite list members to vote on this automatic edit (in a later stage). I will not proceed without either 8 unanimous approval votes or 15 total votes with 2/3 approval. - Although not a formal requirement either, I will ask the Data Working Group for permission before carrying out this edit. # Technical implementation - I will use JOSM combined with Overpass. - I will do this edit within one changeset with tags mechanical=yes and description=Rename shop=musical_instruments to shop=musical_instrument, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mechanical_Edits/Math1985/Musical_instrument;. - This will be a one-time edit. - I allow users to opt-out. If users want me not to touch some objects, please leave the relevant object id's on the linked page, or contact me by e-mail. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] opening-hours: how to code always but...? Syntax diagram.
Hi André, Am Sonntag, 20. Oktober 2013, 19:19:35 schrieb André Pirard: […loads of quoted text…] please do not quote an entire conversation on top of your reply, otherwise people have a hard time finding your actual reply. No, that is completely wrong. 24/7 is *not* meant to be used as a building block. Where is that explained and is it correctly explained if readers understand it completely wrong? The wiki states If it is 24 hours 7 days a week [opening_hours] has a specific value: 24/7. this way it can render a specific icon. IMHO, the first thing in this discussion is to define what off means. The first thing in this discussion is to *grasp* the meaning of off, not *define* it. off has been in use for quite some time already. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Time_domains explains quite well how the overall opening_hours syntax works. Before I added my diagram, the only things one could find is vague things like that a weekday off is wd off. After adding my diagram, one can at last read a definition of off to which everyone agreed: who is everyone? Eckhart ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] opening-hours: how to code always but...? Syntax diagram.
On 2013-10-21 19:07, Eckhart Wörner wrote : Hi André, Am Sonntag, 20. Oktober 2013, 19:19:35 schrieb André Pirard: No, that is completely wrong. 24/7 is *not* meant to be used as a building block. Where is that explained and is it correctly explained if readers understand it completely wrong? The wiki states If it is 24 hours 7 days a week [opening_hours] has a specific value: 24/7. this way it can render a specific icon. I had understood that 24/7 doesn't allow exceptions and I wrote my diagram accordingly. Someone said it can (in the quote that you removed), nobody denied that so I changed my diagram accordingly. And then I was told that *I am* completely wrong instead of that I was right. IMHO, the first thing in this discussion is to define what off means. The first thing in this discussion is to *grasp* the meaning of off, not *define* it. off has been in use for quite some time already. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Time_domains explains quite well how the overall opening_hours syntax works. A precise definition is always needed, especially when different people are grasping differently, especially to the point of saying that off is optional and 24/7 a building block. You may notice that, precisely, off overrides what is preceding it and not what is following it. The definitions need to be where they're needed, not in other documents or in people's head. You're absolutely right that Time domain explanation is quite well. The only problem is that it should be at the beginning of Key_opening_hours but that the latter does not even link to it. I have added a sentence to draw the reader's attention on two key documents I was lucky to find before he tackles decoding this one. Fuzzy rules are unfortunately a spread disease of OSM, especially traffic rules tags sending cars where they shouldn't go or pedestrians/bicycles on a needless 3 km detour. I'm having a hard, disappointing time with that. Computers using tags do not grasp. They follow well defined rules. I hope that the JOSM/Plugins/OpeningHoursEditor http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/OpeningHoursEditor bug will be corrected and that it will be improved because it's what taggers jump on instead of reading (nice making a button to switch between adding and subtracting mode). I hope that my fast-to-read diagram will be appreciated. I have to move on to those other concerns now. Cheers, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] opening-hours: how to code always but...? Syntax diagram.
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Eckhart Wörner wrote: The wiki states If it is 24 hours 7 days a week [opening_hours] has a specific value: 24/7. this way it can render a specific icon. There are quite a few Starbucks locations that Starbucks themselves consider 24 hour stores, but which actually have stated hours of 04:30-03:15. Is this close enough to 24/7 that perhaps it should still get the 24/7 icon? If not, how about a new icon for effectively but not literally 24/7? -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
