Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels
On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:41:56PM +0200, André Pirard wrote: Hi, Regarding normalized layers. If I can believe my eyes, bridges/culverts are under (uninterrupted foil) roads http://www.hdtimelapse.net/content/HDtimelapse.net_City/HDtimelapse.net_City_3290_hirez.jpg: bridge=road-1. Unless a renderer must assume that, which should be stated in the wiki, then bridge=road. If I can believe my eyes, 90° crossing rivers/roads run under bridges, that is river=bridge-1. Unless a renderer must assume that, which should be stated in the wiki, then river=bridge. A friend of mine says that we must start counting at 1 (like year 1) and hence that ground=1 (;-)). I'd like to know how many of you agree. While waiting, let's assume ground=0. Hence, it depends very much on what the wiki states and we should settle that before discussing. Assuming assumption, we have road=0, bridge=0, river=0. If the renderer does not assume anything we have road=0, bridge=-1 and river=-2. we don't have that. Perhaps you are concluding uninterrupted level road = same layer all along the road? There is no rule like this. You can split a completely level way into many parts and assign any of these levels a layer from -5 to 5 (you *should* use layer0 only for segments which are bridge/tunnel etc but elevation is not relevant). In addition, key:layer *is not* rendering layer/order. One example, a road is going through a forest, both should have implicit key:layer ==0. Obviously they still have a defined rendering order, otherwise our roads would disappear where they go through forests. If the road (for whichever reason, valid or not) has layer=-1 and the forest just the implicit layer==0, the road should still be drawn above the forest. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014, Richard Z. wrote: On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:41:56PM +0200, André Pirard wrote: In addition, key:layer *is not* rendering layer/order. One example, a road is going through a forest, both should have implicit key:layer ==0. Obviously they still have a defined rendering order, otherwise our roads would disappear where they go through forests. If the road (for whichever reason, valid or not) has layer=-1 and the forest just the implicit layer==0, the road should still be drawn above the forest. Currently roads vanish regardless of the drawing order: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/61.493/27.658 ;-) -- i.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels
Hi, On 05.04.2014 21:17, Richard Z. wrote: If the road (for whichever reason, valid or not) has layer=-1 and the forest just the implicit layer==0, the road should still be drawn above the forest. I don't think that this idea is universally accepted. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway
You are being asked, is the word brunnel one you coined, or is it in use already by other people? Pointing to a page you wrote is not an answer to the question. On April 3, 2014 5:06:54 PM CDT, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 10:49:56PM +0100, Dave F. wrote: On 03/04/2014 22:04, Richard Z. wrote: A brunnel is a crossbreed of a bridge with a tunnel. It has been used somewhere to describe constructions where it is not easy to decide whether a grade separated crossing is better described as a tunnel under a road or bridge above something. Really? Are you sure you're not just making this up? Show us where or I'm calling you a fibber. How much more stupid do you want to get if you don't use the basic search function. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Advanced_relationships http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:layer Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway
On 4/5/14 4:52 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: You are being asked, is the word brunnel one you coined, or is it in use already by other people? Pointing to a page you wrote is not an answer to the question. it appears to me that brunnel is defined in the GDF (Geographic Data File) format. but the term seems to have no real world traction. Suggesting Richard Z made it up is inappropriate, but suggesting the term is in widespread use would be wrong as well. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only
For that matter, when I have seen the term pushchair in British books, it has always referred to what Americans call a wheelchair, used for transporting adults or older children who are temporarily or permanently unable to walk. On April 4, 2014 6:57:08 AM CDT, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I never heard the term pushchair in any American context. In fact, this is the first time I've ever seen it. We use stroller, or if you're old enough, walker, when we talk about conveyances for small babies. Nowadays walkers are those wheeled frames that help older or disabled folks get around but when I was a kid a stroller was a walker. Of course, a perambulator was called a buggy too. Ah, so many years have passed sigh On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.ukwrote: On Apr 4, 2014 11:44 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: André Riedel wrote: At the moment stroller is used for ramps or ways as access condition. But it's ambiguous, even in American. It's a noun meaning pushchair only in American; in both English AND American it means a person going for a walk. I can't comment on other English variants (AU, SA, Scots etc.). It makes sense to avoid the ambiguity This is where a Wikidata link would usefully add disambiguation. wikidata:subject=q or wikidata:baby_goods=q -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only
We use the term wheelchair in the same way as Americans, a pushchair is used to transport young children, what Americans call a stroller. I have never heard of a wheelchair, referred to as a pushchair, what books was that? Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Nokia N9 On 05/04/2014 22:39 John F. Eldredge wrote: For that matter, when I have seen the term pushchair in British books, it has always referred to what Americans call a wheelchair, used for transporting adults or older children who are temporarily or permanently unable to walk. On April 4, 2014 6:57:08 AM CDT, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I never heard the term pushchair in any American context. In fact, this is the first time I've ever seen it. We use stroller, or if you're old enough, walker, when we talk about conveyances for small babies. Nowadays walkers are those wheeled frames that help older or disabled folks get around but when I was a kid a stroller was a walker. Of course, a perambulator was called a buggy too. Ah, so many years have passed sigh On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Andy Mabbett daveswarth...@gmail.comwrote: On Apr 4, 2014 11:44 AM, SomeoneElse daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: André Riedel wrote: At the moment stroller is used for ramps or ways as access condition. But it's ambiguous, even in American. It's a noun meaning pushchair only in American; in both English AND American it means a person going for a walk. I can't comment on other English variants (AU, SA, Scots etc.). It makes sense to avoid the ambiguity This is where a Wikidata link would usefully add disambiguation. wikidata:subject=q or wikidata:baby_goods=q -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list daveswarth...@gmail.com http://pigsonthewing.org.uk -- John F. Eldredge -- daveswarth...@gmail.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list daveswarth...@gmail.com http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only
On 05/04/2014 22:39, John F. Eldredge wrote: For that matter, when I have seen the term pushchair in British books, it has always referred to what Americans call a wheelchair, used for transporting adults or older children who are temporarily or permanently unable to walk. I've never heard push-chair used that way in Britain. The chairs used by disabled people are called 'wheelchairs' here as well, and 'push-chairs' are for young children. There are also 'buggies', but I don't know the difference. -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] noexit=yes on ways ?
If you don't use noexit=yes on ways, what do you use it on? I don't see that it would be meaningful on nodes, areas, or relations. On April 4, 2014 9:14:24 AM CDT, Nelson A. de Oliveira nao...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:54 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: On 03.04.2014 21:22, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:17 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Is noexit=yes useful on ways ? The way has one side that has/is an exit :-) Tagging the whole way as noexit=yes seems strange. If it is accepted, I gonna hange the wiki accordingly and gonna ask a for validator checks in JOSM, as we have more than 100,000 ways with this tag. Basically I agree with the current text of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noexit (except that I don't agree to use it on ways). I also can't see why, but people also use noexit=no http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/noexit#values ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] noexit=yes on ways ?
On 2014-04-06 00:07, John F. Eldredge wrote : If you don't use noexit=yes on ways, what do you use it on? How do you understand "Use the noexit=yes tag on the node at the end of a highway=* ..."? If you read the wiki page very very carefully, you will conclude that it must be used almost on nothing. I mean that it must be very very seldom used and that 99%+ of those 200 000+ tags are errors. I don't see that it would be meaningful on nodes, areas, or relations. What do you think it means? Cheers, André. On April 4, 2014 9:14:24 AM CDT, "Nelson A. de Oliveira" nao...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:54 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: On 03.04.2014 21:22, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:17 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Is noexit=yes useful on ways ? The way has one side that has/is an exit :-) Tagging the whole way as "noexit=yes" seems strange. If it is accepted, I gonna hange the wiki accordingly and gonna ask a for validator checks in JOSM, as we have more than 100,000 ways with this tag. Basically I agree with the current text of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noexit (except that I don't agree to use it on ways). I also can't see why, but people also use noexit=no http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/noexit#values ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop for baby strollers only
I don't have the titles at hand, but it was in several Victorian and Edwardian novels. On April 5, 2014 5:01:36 PM CDT, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: We use the term wheelchair in the same way as Americans, a pushchair is used to transport young children, what Americans call a stroller. I have never heard of a wheelchair, referred to as a pushchair, what books was that? Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Nokia N9 On 05/04/2014 22:39 John F. Eldredge wrote: For that matter, when I have seen the term pushchair in British books, it has always referred to what Americans call a wheelchair, used for transporting adults or older children who are temporarily or permanently unable to walk. On April 4, 2014 6:57:08 AM CDT, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I never heard the term pushchair in any American context. In fact, this is the first time I've ever seen it. We use stroller, or if you're old enough, walker, when we talk about conveyances for small babies. Nowadays walkers are those wheeled frames that help older or disabled folks get around but when I was a kid a stroller was a walker. Of course, a perambulator was called a buggy too. Ah, so many years have passed sigh On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Andy Mabbett daveswarth...@gmail.comwrote: On Apr 4, 2014 11:44 AM, SomeoneElse daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: André Riedel wrote: At the moment stroller is used for ramps or ways as access condition. But it's ambiguous, even in American. It's a noun meaning pushchair only in American; in both English AND American it means a person going for a walk. I can't comment on other English variants (AU, SA, Scots etc.). It makes sense to avoid the ambiguity This is where a Wikidata link would usefully add disambiguation. wikidata:subject=q or wikidata:baby_goods=q -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list daveswarth...@gmail.com http://pigsonthewing.org.uk -- John F. Eldredge -- daveswarth...@gmail.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list daveswarth...@gmail.com http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] noexit=yes on ways ?
I think the Wiki is abundantly clear on the usage of this tag. I says, among other things, that it is to be used on a node, not on a way, and that This tag is mainly useful where a road or path ends close to another way but where it isn't possible to get through due to a barrier or other obstruction which may otherwise look like a mistake for a connection to the nearby road the photo illustrates such a dead-end perfectly. I cannot understand why people are having such a difficult time with this. It is to be used to tag the end node of a way from which there is no way forward — i.e., if you're traveling along this way, when you come to this point you will have to turn around and go out the way you came in. Dave On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:56 AM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2014-04-06 00:07, John F. Eldredge wrote : If you don't use noexit=yes on ways, what do you use it on? How do you understand Use the *noexit*http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Noexit =yes tag on the node at the end of a highwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway =* ...? If you read the wiki page very very carefully, you will conclude that it must be used almost on nothing. I mean that it must be very very seldom used and that 99%+ of those 200 000+ tags are errors. I don't see that it would be meaningful on nodes, areas, or relations. What do you think it means? Cheers, André. On April 4, 2014 9:14:24 AM CDT, Nelson A. de Oliveira nao...@gmail.com nao...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:54 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: On 03.04.2014 21:22, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:17 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Is noexit=yes useful on ways ? The way has one side that has/is an exit :-) Tagging the whole way as noexit=yes seems strange. If it is accepted, I gonna hange the wiki accordingly and gonna ask a for validator checks in JOSM, as we have more than 100,000 ways with this tag. Basically I agree with the current text ofhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noexit (except that I don't agree to use it on ways). I also can't see why, but people also use noexit=nohttp://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/noexit#values ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] noexit=yes on ways ?
Well, at least on my part, the confusion was because I was thinking in terms of the no exit sign, which is always posted at the entrance to a cul-de-sac, not at the end of it. On April 5, 2014 8:00:27 PM CDT, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Wiki is abundantly clear on the usage of this tag. I says, among other things, that it is to be used on a node, not on a way, and that This tag is mainly useful where a road or path ends close to another way but where it isn't possible to get through due to a barrier or other obstruction which may otherwise look like a mistake for a connection to the nearby road the photo illustrates such a dead-end perfectly. I cannot understand why people are having such a difficult time with this. It is to be used to tag the end node of a way from which there is no way forward — i.e., if you're traveling along this way, when you come to this point you will have to turn around and go out the way you came in. Dave On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:56 AM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.comwrote: On 2014-04-06 00:07, John F. Eldredge wrote : If you don't use noexit=yes on ways, what do you use it on? How do you understand Use the *noexit*http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Noexit =yes tag on the node at the end of a highwayhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway =* ...? If you read the wiki page very very carefully, you will conclude that it must be used almost on nothing. I mean that it must be very very seldom used and that 99%+ of those 200 000+ tags are errors. I don't see that it would be meaningful on nodes, areas, or relations. What do you think it means? Cheers, André. On April 4, 2014 9:14:24 AM CDT, Nelson A. de Oliveira nao...@gmail.com nao...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:54 AM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: On 03.04.2014 21:22, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:17 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Is noexit=yes useful on ways ? The way has one side that has/is an exit :-) Tagging the whole way as noexit=yes seems strange. If it is accepted, I gonna hange the wiki accordingly and gonna ask a for validator checks in JOSM, as we have more than 100,000 ways with this tag. Basically I agree with the current text ofhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noexit (except that I don't agree to use it on ways). I also can't see why, but people also use noexit=nohttp://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/noexit#values ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] noexit=yes on ways ?
On 06.04.2014 03:13, John F. Eldredge wrote: Well, at least on my part, the confusion was because I was thinking in terms of the no exit sign, which is always posted at the entrance to a cul-de-sac, not at the end of it. Do we need a link to traffic_sign=* ? noexit=yes has nothing in common with the traffic_sign as: 1. it only is about motorized traffic where noexit=yes is about every travel mode. 2. it is used at the beginning of a cul-de-sac and an information for driver of motorized vehicles where noexit=yes is always tagged on the end node of a way without any connection and is a hint for mappers and QA tools. Please, do not mix it up. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
