Re: [Tagging] How one may tag object as castle?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-10-13 23:27 GMT+02:00 John Willis :

> Does this include plastic disney castles?
>
> Those are definitely psuedo-castles.
>



are they "more pseudo" than Neuschwanstein (the "original")? Why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuschwanstein_Castle

This WP article suggests the Cinderella Castle is made of a steel frame
structure with reinforced concrete:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_Castle
Can you explain the meaning of "plastic" in your mail? Is this about other
Disney castles or is it to diminish the quality of the construction?

What about the Hearst Castle? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearst_Castle

Curious,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] power=* tag: minor_line vs. line

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-10-13 22:48 GMT+02:00 François Lacombe :

> As consumers may not be able to make the right distinction between minor
> or major lines, I assume using power=line only, in continental France and
> always in combination with voltage=* and operator=*.
>
> Thus both users and mappers only have information instead of hypothesis
> and can make the distinction they want from the voltage, location and
> operating company.
>


the problem is that people often can't provide the information about
voltage or operator, so you will end up with minor distribution lines
tagged as power=line and nothing else, and will not have the basis to make
a decision about the importance.

I agree that additional details like voltage, ref, operator etc. are nice
to have, but an unambiguous decision between minor lines and transmission
lines can be made much easier (you see this in most cases even from far
away), and is what many mappers seem to consider sufficient, so I wouldn't
deprecate this established system.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] power=* tag: minor_line vs. line

[David Marchal]

Well, I would say: mainly on poles = minor_line, and mainly on towers = line; 
this way, the difference is easy to see for mappers, even on Bing imagery, and, 
as poles, AFAIK, are always smaller that towers, that would properly model the 
landscape impact these power lines have. Besides, I know we're not supposed to 
map for the renderer, but the OSM Mapnik stylesheet seems adapted for such 
modelling, as minor_line are rendered only on higher zooms, i.e. starting from 
z16, which seems to me a correct rendering for lines on poles, far less visible 
than lines on towers. I mean, the stylesheet guys made a logical choice, why 
not adopting the same?

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:48:58 +0200
From: fl.infosrese...@gmail.com
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] power=* tag: minor_line vs. line

(Sent from a phone)
Hi David,
Many opinion exists regarding the minor or not line qualification and still no 
consensus.
As consumers may not be able to make the right distinction between minor or 
major lines, I assume using power=line only, in continental France and always 
in combination with voltage=* and operator=*.
Thus both users and mappers only have information instead of hypothesis and can 
make the distinction they want from the voltage, location and operating company.
Additionally, underground power paths use to be mapped with power=cable + 
location=underground
Let us know if you have better idea to improve power line mapping ;)
All the best
François

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Re: [Tagging] Postindustrial Castle

[Mike Thompson]

Here is another example[1], and its website[2]. This one is in Colorado US.
 historic=castle doesn't seem appropriate as it was built in relatively
recent times.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71070599
[2] http://www.bishopcastle.org/

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Jaume Figueras i Jové <
jaume.figue...@masafi.cat> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've found a 'postindustrial' castle tagged [1] and I don't know how can
> it be correctly tagged. With 'postindustrial' I mean a castle build by one
> person during the last 40-50 years as its own personal project with no
> other means that its own personal I don't know why someone builds a
> castle nowadays. You can view a newspaper article [2] with a picture.
>
> Now it is tagged as historic=castle, but is this correct?
>
> TIA,
>
> Jaume.
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/219562328
> [2]
> http://www.naciodigital.cat/latorredelpalau/noticia/34238/castell/postindustrial/al/mig/fonts/terrassa
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] power=* tag: minor_line vs. line

[François Lacombe]

We are not talking about stop to differentiate power lines but to use
different tags to do so.

By landscape : importance=* may support the difference between "big"
and "small" power lines.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Importance
power=line + importance=local
power=line + importance=regional
power=line + importance=minor
power=line + importance=major
and so on

On supports : color=*, structure=*, height=*

By power grid function :
power=line + usage=distribution
power=line + usage=transmission
power=line + usage=traction
and so on

I completely second what Ralph said.
The problem is also no one has really the same point of view regarding
power lines classification.

And we are forcing people who can't/don't want to handle such a choice
between minor/major, huge/small, useful/not useful.


Finally, how would you tag such feature ?
https://www.google.fr/maps/@46.0051218,6.6292445,3a,75y,140.55h,108.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snMHy5MWRsC1Q39kjLUSkag!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

cheers

François


2015-10-14 17:17 GMT+02:00 David Marchal :
> Indeed, mappers aren't supposed to know everything, neither the recommended
> modelling nor the technical details of power lines, but the landscape
> criteria seems simple enough to allow them to understand it if they are
> informed about it; besides, even if they are not aware of it, experienced
> mappers can correct and detail it later, so the distinction won't be useless
> at all, even if it isn"t used at the first mapping. I mean, newbies may be
> unaccustomated to the difference between streams and drains, but that's not
> a reason to give up this discrimination between those waterways.
>
> 
> From: ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com
> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:14:48 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] power=* tag: minor_line vs. line
>
> Please remember that this is OpenStreetMap and most mappers are not experts
> on the features they are mapping. It is my personal appeal to all to allow a
> tagging system that allows general mappers to put a specific feature on the
> map using overall basic tags and then the experts can come in and “add”
> additional tags to break it into it’s specific grouping or usage and even
> take it to the nth degree of ridiculous if they so wish. Let us take the
> Electricity Grid as that example, if the general mapper can identify a power
> line on the aerial imagery then they map it as a power=line. They may even
> have the ability to identify the position of most pylons (if the imagery
> shows a good shadow to identify between pole and pylon) through open
> country, it becomes a lot more difficult and blurred in Towns and Cities.
> For those who have a bit more local knowledge of the grid they may then add
> the major detail such as National Grid which carries the highest voltage,
> this breaks down to a lower voltage at a sub station to enter the regional
> grid and then repeats this step to a lower voltage again for the local or
> distributer grid.
> Hopefully you will bear in mind the mapper and the process of getting detail
> on the map before you start deciding that the mappers should all be using
> the detailed knowledge tags that you are proposing. If the tags get too
> detailed for general mappers then you are going to stop them from adding
> basic detail to the map. I for one will stop adding power lines altogether
> if I do not know if it is high or low voltage, national or local grid. I
> WILL CONTINUE TO MAP THEM IF I AM ABLE TO JUST TAG IT AS A POWER LINE and be
> able to leave it up to someone with more knowledge to identify it further.
> Please remember the majority of mappers are not experts in all fields. I may
> identify a structure on the aerial imagery and identify it as a building but
> I have no way of knowing if it is a family home, a corner shop or a local
> pub ... so I tag it with the most general tag building=yes. I need to be
> able to do the same with power lines ... a very basic tag for general use.
>
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Re: [Tagging] RFC key:oven - a tag to add details about a kind of oven

[Tom Pfeifer]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 2015-10-14 14:06:

Am 14.10.2015 um 13:49 schrieb Tom Pfeifer:

man_made=kiln
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dkiln


a kiln is an oven, but not every oven is a kiln. The one above is for baking 
bread, it's not a kiln.


Oxford dictionary describes kiln as
"a furnace or oven for burning, baking, or drying, esp. one for calcining lime or 
firing pottery."
with its origin from "Old English cylene, from Latin culina ‘kitchen, cooking 
stove.’ "

While the wikipedia article focuses on the industrial use, that does not
exclude the meaning in food preparation, in particular in a low-tech 
environment.

Thus I find the term suitable for those historic community ovens.

tom


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Re: [Tagging] RFC key:oven - a tag to add details about a kind of oven

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-10-14 15:35 GMT+02:00 Tom Pfeifer :

> While the wikipedia article focuses on the industrial use, that does not
> exclude the meaning in food preparation, in particular in a low-tech
> environment.
>


admittedly there are a lot hits for "bread kiln" in my searchengine. The
problem is, the osm definition is a link to wikipedia, so by the time
someone updates the wikipedia article to include baking we can use it here
;-)

That's why I think it's not good to link to the definition from our tag
pages, we should rather copy those parts that are relevant for us (from
e.g. wikipedia).

Ciao,
Martin
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