Re: [Tagging] how to tag a "highway" that doesn't exist?

[Andy Townsend]

On 22/10/2015 11:18, Colin Smale wrote:


On 2015-10-22 11:27, Andy Townsend wrote:



I'd agree with that.  I can think of more than a few examples of "the 
road/path used to go here, but now it doesn't", and even if the 
imagery gets updated, underlying GPS traces won't.
Has anyone thought of a way of limiting returned GPS traces to a 
certain date range? So you can look at traces since or before a 
certain change in the road layout?




It's tricky, since the traces involved aren't just the OSM ones - they 
also include Strava and potentially others.


With regard to OSM ones, in JOSM you can get information on some traces 
trace-by-trace, but it's a bit clumsy to use regularly. Traces in P2 and 
iD's "GPS traces tiles" such as 
http://gps-b.tile.openstreetmap.org/lines/15/16256/10660.png via 
https://github.com/ericfischer/gpx-updater are one-way I believe - GPS 
traces go in, but never come out.


Cheers,

Andy

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Re: [Tagging] Shop values review

[John Eldredge]

Well, perhaps I misunderstood the proposal. It sounded to me like the 
proposal was that a store aimed at selling building materials to 
professional builders, but not the general public, would simply be tagged 
shop=trade, with no further qualifiers to specify what trade was intended.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 18, 2015 5:55:23 AM ael  wrote:


On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 07:28:39PM -0500, John Eldredge wrote:

I find shop=trade too generic to be useful, as there are many different
trades besides the building-construction trades.


Where does that constraint come from? You can have the subtag trade take
pretty well any relevant value. Building_materials just happened to be
the original motivation.

As for "white-collar" and such, that seems to be some sort of local
class distinction. There is absolutely no such intention in the original
proposal. Rather "trade" suggests "professional", and as such perhaps to
be admired and emulated.

But really it was invented as a way to tag clear groups of places that
had no obvious existing tags, and using the subtag had the great
advantage that applications did not have to know all the possible
values of "trade". Applications can just include them in, say, a group
of shop POIs in the vicinity. The user can then inspect and decide which are of
interest.

Having a plethora of slightly different main tags seems an inferior
approach. But again, the subtag trade again has the vast advantage
that it is completely compatible with as many main tags as needed.
Some values of trade might become redundant if a new main tag is
invented, but that is ok.

What am I missing?

ael





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Re: [Tagging] how to tag a "highway" that doesn't exist?

[Andy Townsend]

On 22/10/2015 06:29, GerdP wrote:

Hi all,

I've contacted a few mappers and it seems that there is a need
to keep some of the ways for the reason described by Mateusz below.


I'd agree with that.  I can think of more than a few examples of "the 
road/path used to go here, but now it doesn't", and even if the imagery 
gets updated, underlying GPS traces won't.



Now, as so many before, I try to find a good tag to express this.
Using a line with only a note tag is no good idea as QA tools
will not like them.


I'd suggest that if a QA tool objects to that, it's a problem with that 
QA tool. :)



IMHO the only already used tag which looks acceptable
for this is
highway=none
in combination with a note saying why the way is no highway
maybe combined with an explicit tag
mapping_error=yes

Does that make sense?


Using a highway tag when there isn't a highway is going to cause 
problems for someone, somewhere down the line - anyone who doesn't look 
at the values and just processes "highway=*", for example (not that 
that's a good idea - but someone's going to do it).


Some sort of lifecycle tag might work in some cases (though it'd be 
interesting to see the justification for the "planned but never built, 
and now never will be built" ones), but even after that there'll always 
be a small number of odd values - possibly the least worst solution in a 
particular case.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] how to tag a "highway" that doesn't exist?

[Colin Smale]

 

On 2015-10-22 11:27, Andy Townsend wrote: 

> I'd agree with that.  I can think of more than a few examples of "the 
> road/path used to go here, but now it doesn't", and even if the imagery gets 
> updated, underlying GPS traces won't.

Has anyone thought of a way of limiting returned GPS traces to a certain
date range? So you can look at traces since or before a certain change
in the road layout? 

--colin 
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Re: [Tagging] how to tag a "highway" that doesn't exist?

[Tom Pfeifer]

Andy Townsend wrote on 2015-10-22 12:46:

On 22/10/2015 11:18, Colin Smale wrote:


On 2015-10-22 11:27, Andy Townsend wrote:



I'd agree with that.  I can think of more than a few examples of "the road/path used 
to go here, but now it doesn't", and even if the imagery gets updated, underlying 
GPS traces won't.

Has anyone thought of a way of limiting returned GPS traces to a certain date 
range? So you can look at traces since or before a certain change in the road 
layout?



It's tricky, since the traces involved aren't just the OSM ones - they also 
include Strava and potentially others.

With regard to OSM ones, in JOSM you can get information on some traces trace-by-trace, 
but it's a bit clumsy to use regularly. Traces in P2 and iD's "GPS traces 
tiles" such as http://gps-b.tile.openstreetmap.org/lines/15/16256/10660.png via
https://github.com/ericfischer/gpx-updater are one-way I believe - GPS traces 
go in, but never come out.


In JOSM you can filter the loaded GPX tracks by date. In the layer list, 
right-click the GPX data,
select the funnel icon "choose visible tracks". It provides you with a slider 
mode to select a
specific from-to date range. Very useful when the road layout has changed, e.g. 
a roundabout been built.

(in this context, the InfoMode plugin provides you further information about 
tracks and trackpoints interactively.)
tom


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