Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout

[Volker Schmidt]

Florian,
I saw that discussion on the German list. I don't understand it.
I am familiar with the difference between a roundabout and a
mini-roundabout. The difference is essentially the traversability of the
centre, and the size. In the UK, where the OSM tagging was born, they have
different road signs. Here in Italy they do not have different signs, and
the only difference is the traversability.
The rules are the same for both.

So the traversability being the difference between the two, it is useless
to discuss the traversability of junction=roundabout. If the center is
traversable it is, in OSM,  not a junction=roundabout, but a
highway=mini_roundabout. This is an old established tagging, and I do not
see any need to change that.
What I am after is tagging the dimension of mini-roundabouts. This seems to
be useful information for longer vehicles. The specific mini-roundabout
that triggered the question is this one
, and it has a
diameter of about 12m, and, yes, it is a mini-roundabout.
Volker


Il giorno ven 27 gen 2023 alle ore 22:35 Florian Lohoff  ha
scritto:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 09:25:32PM +0100, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> > I see that I was not precise with my question: I am after a way to tag
> the
> > overall diameter of the round surface composed of the mini-roundabout
> road
> > surface plus the traversable central part. This is an important measure
> for
> > trucks. I happen to live near one of these with an outer diameter of 12
> m,
> > and that attracts regularly articulated lorries like the cheese attracts
> > flies. This triggered the question.
>
> There has been a pretty lenghty discussion in the German forum just a
> couple days back which i started.
>
> I started a discussion about mini_roundabouts here too a couple years
> back.
>
> I still find the concept of tagging a "mini roundabout" _broken by
> design_.
>
> The main difference we have in usage is - A mini roundabout will never
> cause any announcements like "3rd exit" it will be "turn left". This
> will be pretty confusing for anything larger that a small residential
> street.
>
> And i think the misconception is still what a mini roundabout is.
> A mini roundabout is not a mini roundabout because its center is
> traverseable. Its a matter of fixing a priority problem in busy
> junctions.
>
> So in case you have 12m diameter and a traversable center i would not
> say thats a mini_roundabout.
>
> And while at it - We should introduce a tag "traversable=yes" or
> something on the junction=roundabout way.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>   Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout

[Florian Lohoff]

Hi,

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 09:25:32PM +0100, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> I see that I was not precise with my question: I am after a way to tag the
> overall diameter of the round surface composed of the mini-roundabout road
> surface plus the traversable central part. This is an important measure for
> trucks. I happen to live near one of these with an outer diameter of 12 m,
> and that attracts regularly articulated lorries like the cheese attracts
> flies. This triggered the question.

There has been a pretty lenghty discussion in the German forum just a
couple days back which i started. 

I started a discussion about mini_roundabouts here too a couple years
back.

I still find the concept of tagging a "mini roundabout" _broken by
design_.

The main difference we have in usage is - A mini roundabout will never
cause any announcements like "3rd exit" it will be "turn left". This
will be pretty confusing for anything larger that a small residential
street. 

And i think the misconception is still what a mini roundabout is. 
A mini roundabout is not a mini roundabout because its center is
traverseable. Its a matter of fixing a priority problem in busy
junctions. 

So in case you have 12m diameter and a traversable center i would not
say thats a mini_roundabout.

And while at it - We should introduce a tag "traversable=yes" or
something on the junction=roundabout way.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
  Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


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Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service enterprises/establishments.

[Daniel Bégin]

Thanks Nathan and ael, that makes me moving forward 

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: ael via Tagging
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 06:27
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Cc: ael
Subject: Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service enterprises/establishments.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:50:57PM +, Daniel Bégin wrote:
> I see your point. I may be mired with language issues (English is not my 
> native language) but either I create a “business” tag and document it or I 
> use office?

Well, I would be in favour of that. In this sort of context, I think
'company' and 'business' mean much the same, although in the UK, at
least, 'company' has a legal meaning, so 'business' is perhaps slightly
more general.

By the way, when I said that "office" was American dialect, slightly
frivolously, I meant its usage rather than the word itself.

ael


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Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service enterprises/establishments.

[ael via Tagging]

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:50:57PM +, Daniel Bégin wrote:
> I see your point. I may be mired with language issues (English is not my 
> native language) but either I create a “business” tag and document it or I 
> use office?

Well, I would be in favour of that. In this sort of context, I think
'company' and 'business' mean much the same, although in the UK, at
least, 'company' has a legal meaning, so 'business' is perhaps slightly
more general.

By the way, when I said that "office" was American dialect, slightly
frivolously, I meant its usage rather than the word itself.

ael


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Building Hydrant Inlet

[Kyle Hensel]

Hi, there have been some changes to this proposal since the last time it was 
mentioned on this mailing list.

Any further feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

From: Kyle Hensel
Sent: Friday, 30 December 2022 17:48
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Building Hydrant Inlet

Hi All. Following a recent discussion on the tagging mailing list, I have 
created a proposal for Building Hydrant Inlets.

https://wiki.osm.org/Proposal_features/Building_inlet


You can discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page or here.

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Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service enterprises/establishments.

[Nathan Case]

For me:

office=electrician

should be used for mapping the location of larger electricians company, 
e.g., as Daniel says, where they employ office staff and, likely, more 
than one electrician works at the company. The primary function of the 
tag is that this location acts as an office with primarily 
administrative tasks, rather than electrical tasks, being carried out there.


craft=electrician

should be used for either: the registered address of an electrician 
(usually their residential address but maybe a shared office space or 
workshop) who is not part of a larger company (in the UK we'd call that 
"self-employed").


Cheers.


On 26/01/2023 21:06, Daniel Bégin wrote:


I recently asked for a clarification and did not get any answer. So 
here is my question again (with some context):


Using the workplace of an electrician as an example, it was made clear 
that I should use craft=electrician instead of office=electrician. But 
what if this electrician sees its business get bigger (in a North 
American context)?


The electrician eventually hires secretaries, accountants, many other 
electricians and create a company (if not already incorporated). 
Should that workplace being tagged as office=company and 
company=electrician? Or if only the final output of the company should 
be taken into account (whatever its size) and then still be tagged 
craft=electrician?


Thank you for your patience :-)

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows



*From:* Daniel Bégin 
*Sent:* Thursday, January 26, 2023 12:00:44 PM
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 

*Subject:* Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service 
enterprises/establishments.

+1

Get Outlook for Android 



*From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 25, 2023 5:00:59 PM
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 

*Subject:* Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service 
enterprises/establishments.




On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 02:51, Daniel Bégin  wrote:

and office=psychologist because they provide services.


I would usually use healthcare=psychotherapist for them.

Thanks

Graeme


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