Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout
The old Australian version of what I think is the same thing were nicknamed Silent Cops. Article about them: https://www.shannons.com.au/club/forum/general/who-remembers-silent-cops/ Thanks Graeme On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:04, Colin Smale wrote: > The "Priority to the right" rule doesn't cover everything. Imagine a > junction with two cars coming simultaneously from side roads on opposite > sides of another road at right angles. Both want to leave the junction on > the orthogonal road, in the same direction. One is making a right turn, and > the other is making a left turn. Who goes first? The tiebreaker rule is > what (I believe) Florian is calling "right before left," in the Netherlands > it's called "shortest turn first". The car that is making the right turn > goes before the car turning left. > > The "priority to the right" rule is normally only encountered in > residential areas and very rural areas, where the roads are deemed to be of > equal significance. Where a road with substantial through traffic is > involved the priority situation is usually made clear by signs (give > way/stop, sometimes plus yellow diamond on through road) and road markings. > > > On 29/01/2023 19:26 CET Philip Barnes wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 2023-01-29 at 14:31 +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 12:12:06AM +, Philip Barnes wrote: > > > > > > > > When I first encountered Canadian four way stops in 1980, I did > > > > think these should be mini-roundabouts. > > > > > > Thats the main point. In Germany we have a solution of "last resort" > > > which is called "Rechts vor links" - So when there is no other > > > rules of priority its "Right before left". > > > > That is a rule I believe exists in most of continental Europe. I > > certainly learned of it as ‘Priorité à droite’ in French lessons at > > school. > > > > > > > > > > Other jurisdications dont have this so there is a problem with > > > producing > > > junctions with "equal priority". The UK solution is the "mini > > > roundabout". > > > > > > So a mini roundabout is really "mini" or "tiny" - Not necessarily > > > round. > > A roundabout isn't necessarily round either :) > > > > It about going around, the name comes from the fairground roundabout > > (carousel in American English) or a children's roundabout in > > playground. > > > > A mini-roundabout in the UK, and in France which is the country which > > comes second in terms of my driving experience are signed with a blue > > sign with white arrows. Different to a normal roundabout. They are > > always traversable but doing so is often made uncomfortable for small > > vehicles by either building them up with concrete so they can be the > > height of a speed bump or with the use of setts. > > > > Others are just white paint at what was once a give way and nobody goes > > around the paint. They just make priority equal. > > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=381114187015295 > > > > > > I did spot this one today, > > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=509797140032524 which is > > traversable by a truck, but you wouldn't want to in a car. > > > > > > > The problem here starts with the imagery in the Wiki which IMHO dont > > > show mini roundabouts, but random roundabouts with traversable > > > center. > > Am not sure what you mean, all of the photos that say mini-roundabout, > > I would interpret as such. The one that looks different is > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/5/5e/Kreisverkehr.jpg but it > > has the mini-roundabout sign so I would treat it a a mini-roundabout. A > > large vehicle turning would have to cross the island. In reality most > > drivers would go straight over it. > > > > > > And main distinction people read in the wiki is "traversable center" > > > so > > > everything with a traversable center gets tagged by mappers as mini > > > roundabout. > > > > > I don't think I have ever come across a roundabout with a traversable > > centre, why would it even exist? > > > > > So we have a problem with the wiki documentation. > > It looks fine to me, although mini-roundabouts were common in the UK by > > the time I was learning to drive in the late 70s. > > > > Phil (trigpoint) > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout
The "Priority to the right" rule doesn't cover everything. Imagine a junction with two cars coming simultaneously from side roads on opposite sides of another road at right angles. Both want to leave the junction on the orthogonal road, in the same direction. One is making a right turn, and the other is making a left turn. Who goes first? The tiebreaker rule is what (I believe) Florian is calling "right before left," in the Netherlands it's called "shortest turn first". The car that is making the right turn goes before the car turning left. The "priority to the right" rule is normally only encountered in residential areas and very rural areas, where the roads are deemed to be of equal significance. Where a road with substantial through traffic is involved the priority situation is usually made clear by signs (give way/stop, sometimes plus yellow diamond on through road) and road markings. > On 29/01/2023 19:26 CET Philip Barnes wrote: > > > On Sun, 2023-01-29 at 14:31 +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 12:12:06AM +, Philip Barnes wrote: > > > > > > When I first encountered Canadian four way stops in 1980, I did > > > think these should be mini-roundabouts. > > > > Thats the main point. In Germany we have a solution of "last resort" > > which is called "Rechts vor links" - So when there is no other > > rules of priority its "Right before left". > > That is a rule I believe exists in most of continental Europe. I > certainly learned of it as ‘Priorité à droite’ in French lessons at > school. > > > > > > Other jurisdications dont have this so there is a problem with > > producing > > junctions with "equal priority". The UK solution is the "mini > > roundabout". > > > > So a mini roundabout is really "mini" or "tiny" - Not necessarily > > round. > A roundabout isn't necessarily round either :) > > It about going around, the name comes from the fairground roundabout > (carousel in American English) or a children's roundabout in > playground. > > A mini-roundabout in the UK, and in France which is the country which > comes second in terms of my driving experience are signed with a blue > sign with white arrows. Different to a normal roundabout. They are > always traversable but doing so is often made uncomfortable for small > vehicles by either building them up with concrete so they can be the > height of a speed bump or with the use of setts. > > Others are just white paint at what was once a give way and nobody goes > around the paint. They just make priority equal. > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=381114187015295 > > > I did spot this one today, > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=509797140032524 which is > traversable by a truck, but you wouldn't want to in a car. > > > > The problem here starts with the imagery in the Wiki which IMHO dont > > show mini roundabouts, but random roundabouts with traversable > > center. > Am not sure what you mean, all of the photos that say mini-roundabout, > I would interpret as such. The one that looks different is > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/5/5e/Kreisverkehr.jpg but it > has the mini-roundabout sign so I would treat it a a mini-roundabout. A > large vehicle turning would have to cross the island. In reality most > drivers would go straight over it. > > > > And main distinction people read in the wiki is "traversable center" > > so > > everything with a traversable center gets tagged by mappers as mini > > roundabout. > > > I don't think I have ever come across a roundabout with a traversable > centre, why would it even exist? > > > So we have a problem with the wiki documentation. > It looks fine to me, although mini-roundabouts were common in the UK by > the time I was learning to drive in the late 70s. > > Phil (trigpoint) > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of places where whipper chargers / cream blower capsules can be recycled
Personally, I would call it a 'nitrous oxide canister' and not by it's use. E.g. https://www.nlwa.gov.uk/reducereuserecycle/recycle/whatcanwerecycle/laughing-gas-canisters On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, 15:09 Lukas Toggenburger via Tagging, < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Dear list > > I am looking for a tag to mark places where whipper chargers / cream > blower capsules can be recycled, i.e. a tag `recycling:X=yes`, according to > the existing https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling > scheme. > > I am referring to these things: > > - https://kisag.ch/en/chargers > - https://www.migros.ch/en/product/70393570 > > that are used in bottles/dispensers like this one: > > - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisag#/media/Datei:Kisag_whipper.jpg > > I think they are primarily used in Switzerland and might not be known > abroad. > > I am not a native English speaker, therefore I am looking for a good > translation / tag name. Names that I have encountered are: > > - whipper chargers: https://kisag.ch/en/chargers > - whipper capsules / chargers: https://kisag.ch/en/chargers (on the > product images) > - whipped cream chargers: > https://www.coop.ch/en/household-pet/household-kitchen/kitchen-utensils/kitchen-aids/kisag-whipped-cream-chargers-10-per-pack/p/3402839 > - cream blower capsules: https://www.migros.ch/en/product/70393570 > - cream chargers / cream gas bottles / cream cartridges: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=recycling%3Acream > > I would probably go with the existing `recycling:cream_chargers=yes` that > seems to be the most used tag with whopping 7(!) usages. > > Does anybody object to that? It wouldn't be too late to use something else. > > Best regards > > Lukas > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout
On Sun, 2023-01-29 at 14:31 +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: > On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 12:12:06AM +, Philip Barnes wrote: > > > > When I first encountered Canadian four way stops in 1980, I did > > think these should be mini-roundabouts. > > Thats the main point. In Germany we have a solution of "last resort" > which is called "Rechts vor links" - So when there is no other > rules of priority its "Right before left". That is a rule I believe exists in most of continental Europe. I certainly learned of it as ‘Priorité à droite’ in French lessons at school. > > Other jurisdications dont have this so there is a problem with > producing > junctions with "equal priority". The UK solution is the "mini > roundabout". > > So a mini roundabout is really "mini" or "tiny" - Not necessarily > round. A roundabout isn't necessarily round either :) It about going around, the name comes from the fairground roundabout (carousel in American English) or a children's roundabout in playground. A mini-roundabout in the UK, and in France which is the country which comes second in terms of my driving experience are signed with a blue sign with white arrows. Different to a normal roundabout. They are always traversable but doing so is often made uncomfortable for small vehicles by either building them up with concrete so they can be the height of a speed bump or with the use of setts. Others are just white paint at what was once a give way and nobody goes around the paint. They just make priority equal. https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=381114187015295 I did spot this one today, https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=509797140032524 which is traversable by a truck, but you wouldn't want to in a car. > The problem here starts with the imagery in the Wiki which IMHO dont > show mini roundabouts, but random roundabouts with traversable > center. Am not sure what you mean, all of the photos that say mini-roundabout, I would interpret as such. The one that looks different is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/5/5e/Kreisverkehr.jpg but it has the mini-roundabout sign so I would treat it a a mini-roundabout. A large vehicle turning would have to cross the island. In reality most drivers would go straight over it. > > And main distinction people read in the wiki is "traversable center" > so > everything with a traversable center gets tagged by mappers as mini > roundabout. > I don't think I have ever come across a roundabout with a traversable centre, why would it even exist? > So we have a problem with the wiki documentation. It looks fine to me, although mini-roundabouts were common in the UK by the time I was learning to drive in the late 70s. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Tagging of places where whipper chargers / cream blower capsules can be recycled
Dear list I am looking for a tag to mark places where whipper chargers / cream blower capsules can be recycled, i.e. a tag `recycling:X=yes`, according to the existing https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling scheme. I am referring to these things: - https://kisag.ch/en/chargers - https://www.migros.ch/en/product/70393570 that are used in bottles/dispensers like this one: - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisag#/media/Datei:Kisag_whipper.jpg I think they are primarily used in Switzerland and might not be known abroad. I am not a native English speaker, therefore I am looking for a good translation / tag name. Names that I have encountered are: - whipper chargers: https://kisag.ch/en/chargers - whipper capsules / chargers: https://kisag.ch/en/chargers (on the product images) - whipped cream chargers: https://www.coop.ch/en/household-pet/household-kitchen/kitchen-utensils/kitchen-aids/kisag-whipped-cream-chargers-10-per-pack/p/3402839 - cream blower capsules: https://www.migros.ch/en/product/70393570 - cream chargers / cream gas bottles / cream cartridges: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=recycling%3Acream I would probably go with the existing `recycling:cream_chargers=yes` that seems to be the most used tag with whopping 7(!) usages. Does anybody object to that? It wouldn't be too late to use something else. Best regards Lukas ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout
On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 12:12:06AM +, Philip Barnes wrote: > > When I first encountered Canadian four way stops in 1980, I did think these > should be mini-roundabouts. Thats the main point. In Germany we have a solution of "last resort" which is called "Rechts vor links" - So when there is no other rules of priority its "Right before left". Other jurisdications dont have this so there is a problem with producing junctions with "equal priority". The UK solution is the "mini roundabout". So a mini roundabout is really "mini" or "tiny" - Not necessarily round. The problem here starts with the imagery in the Wiki which IMHO dont show mini roundabouts, but random roundabouts with traversable center. And main distinction people read in the wiki is "traversable center" so everything with a traversable center gets tagged by mappers as mini roundabout. So we have a problem with the wiki documentation. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
