Re: [Tagging] Conditional destinations (hgv, bicycle, maxweight…)
Jan, I see you have done much work on this topic on your page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mueschel/DestinationTagging); why didn't you include these informations on the general Wiki pages instead of your user pages? Regards. -- Nouvelle adresse mail : penegal...@protonmail.com Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ Le samedi 1 août 2020 17:03, David Marchal a écrit : > To Jan Michel (I did not have your mail, as I unsubscribed of the list mails > to avoid cluttering my mailbox): the goal of my request is not to assist > routing software in finding a route, but to help navigation software to > display the destination signs as they are on the ground. If a destination is > restricted to some vehicles, for instance the ones below 12 tons, the > navigation software should have access to the restriction, to allow it to > display the restriction on the screen, or to not display the destination if > the routed vehicle is not concerned, i.e. if the routed vehicle is over 12 > tons. > > I agree with the fee/toll part, I had the wrong tag in mind. > > Concerning weight, french tonnage signs indeed concern weight rating, not > actual weight, but, as maxweight is often used for such signs, I kept it for > my question. > > Concerning the documentation, I agree it is not well structured and could > largely be improved. In my case, the proposal is more a way to formalise the > reasoning and interpretation for the suggested tagging scheme. I am not > willing to publish a brand new tagging scheme as if I was documenting > something already well established. That would be confusing: it is something > new, currently used nowhere, and I feel the proposal process is there for > that: to allow suggestions to be discussed and approved, thus limiting > tagging and wiki disorganization. > > Regards. > -- > Nouvelle adresse mail : penegal...@protonmail.com > > Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > Le vendredi 31 juillet 2020 15:53, David Marchal > a écrit : > >> Hello, there. >> >> I'm wondering, there are destination signs which only apply to some kind of >> vehicles: for HGV, for bicycles, for pedestrians, for vehicles below 12t… >> How would I tag such destinations? The simple way would be to use, >> respectively, destination:hgv=*, destination:bicycle=*, destination:foot=*, >> destination:conditional="* @ weight<12". Am I right to assume these? >> >> If so, some examples: >> >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/mo0AKf9masIEfpJtySH8fw), >> the road ahead would be tagged (regardless of direction), >> destination="Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare S.N.C.F.;Gare" and >> destination:hgv="Vesoul;Mulhouse;Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare >> S.N.C.F.;Gare" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/Oz3Om7pGbk7LA5wSmYLRew), >> the link would be tagged >> destination:fee="Milan;Turin;Aoste;Courmayeur;Tunnel du Mᵗ Blanc" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/pNJJG6ST4njXchZDQZ3XPw), >> the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged >> destination="Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers sud;Zones industrielles" >> and >> destination:conditional="(Saint-Dié;Raon-l’Étape;Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers >> sud;Zones industrielles) @ weight>3.5 AND hgv" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/71zRlujmD69aPg35BFO1r6), >> the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged destination="La Voivre", >> destination:bicycle="La Voivre;Sᵗ Dié" and destination:ref="C 3" >> >> Is that correct? Can I edit the Wiki destination tag page to give these >> informations, or maybe should I submit a RFC to formalize this? >> >> Awaiting your answers, >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Conditional destinations (hgv, bicycle, maxweight…)
To Jan Michel (I did not have your mail, as I unsubscribed of the list mails to avoid cluttering my mailbox): the goal of my request is not to assist routing software in finding a route, but to help navigation software to display the destination signs as they are on the ground. If a destination is restricted to some vehicles, for instance the ones below 12 tons, the navigation software should have access to the restriction, to allow it to display the restriction on the screen, or to not display the destination if the routed vehicle is not concerned, i.e. if the routed vehicle is over 12 tons. I agree with the fee/toll part, I had the wrong tag in mind. Concerning weight, french tonnage signs indeed concern weight rating, not actual weight, but, as maxweight is often used for such signs, I kept it for my question. Concerning the documentation, I agree it is not well structured and could largely be improved. In my case, the proposal is more a way to formalise the reasoning and interpretation for the suggested tagging scheme. I am not willing to publish a brand new tagging scheme as if I was documenting something already well established. That would be confusing: it is something new, currently used nowhere, and I feel the proposal process is there for that: to allow suggestions to be discussed and approved, thus limiting tagging and wiki disorganization. Regards. -- Nouvelle adresse mail : penegal...@protonmail.com Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ Le vendredi 31 juillet 2020 15:53, David Marchal a écrit : > Hello, there. > > I'm wondering, there are destination signs which only apply to some kind of > vehicles: for HGV, for bicycles, for pedestrians, for vehicles below 12t… How > would I tag such destinations? The simple way would be to use, respectively, > destination:hgv=*, destination:bicycle=*, destination:foot=*, > destination:conditional="* @ weight<12". Am I right to assume these? > > If so, some examples: > > - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/mo0AKf9masIEfpJtySH8fw), > the road ahead would be tagged (regardless of direction), > destination="Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare S.N.C.F.;Gare" and > destination:hgv="Vesoul;Mulhouse;Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare > S.N.C.F.;Gare" > - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/Oz3Om7pGbk7LA5wSmYLRew), > the link would be tagged destination:fee="Milan;Turin;Aoste;Courmayeur;Tunnel > du Mᵗ Blanc" > - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/pNJJG6ST4njXchZDQZ3XPw), > the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged > destination="Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers sud;Zones industrielles" > and > destination:conditional="(Saint-Dié;Raon-l’Étape;Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers > sud;Zones industrielles) @ weight>3.5 AND hgv" > - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/71zRlujmD69aPg35BFO1r6), > the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged destination="La Voivre", > destination:bicycle="La Voivre;Sᵗ Dié" and destination:ref="C 3" > > Is that correct? Can I edit the Wiki destination tag page to give these > informations, or maybe should I submit a RFC to formalize this? > > Awaiting your answers, > > Regards. > -- > Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Conditional destinations (hgv, bicycle, maxweight…)
Hm, it seems a smart way to manage such cases; I could add the restrictions on the relation, like hazmat:water=no or maxweight=12. I assume that, in such cases, I must create a destination_sign relation for unrestricted destinations, and one for each destination restriction (if there are several restrictions, one relation for each restriction). Is it widestream to have several destinations in one single relation, or is it necessary to add a relation per destination? Having one relation per destination would be a pain in the ass. What about application support? Are destination_sign relations widely supported, or are they mostly ignored by software like Osmand? I would like to add this possibility on the Wiki; do you think it would be necessary to fill a proposal, or could I just add it, as it is a simple, self-explaining, combination of preexisting tags? Awaiting your answers, Regards. -- Nouvelle adresse mail : penegal...@protonmail.com Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ Le samedi 1 août 2020 11:12, Andrew Harvey a écrit : > While you're talking about the destination tag, I think when using a > destination_sign relation it's best to apply the mode as eg. > bicycle=designated, eg > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11345354#map=18/-33.82573/151.21308 > for https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/VIq-OPTiw0BVI7gqdLR-iA > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 23:55, David Marchal via Tagging > wrote: > >> Hello, there. >> >> I'm wondering, there are destination signs which only apply to some kind of >> vehicles: for HGV, for bicycles, for pedestrians, for vehicles below 12t… >> How would I tag such destinations? The simple way would be to use, >> respectively, destination:hgv=*, destination:bicycle=*, destination:foot=*, >> destination:conditional="* @ weight<12". Am I right to assume these? >> >> If so, some examples: >> >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/mo0AKf9masIEfpJtySH8fw), >> the road ahead would be tagged (regardless of direction), >> destination="Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare S.N.C.F.;Gare" and >> destination:hgv="Vesoul;Mulhouse;Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare >> S.N.C.F.;Gare" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/Oz3Om7pGbk7LA5wSmYLRew), >> the link would be tagged >> destination:fee="Milan;Turin;Aoste;Courmayeur;Tunnel du Mᵗ Blanc" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/pNJJG6ST4njXchZDQZ3XPw), >> the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged >> destination="Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers sud;Zones industrielles" >> and >> destination:conditional="(Saint-Dié;Raon-l’Étape;Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers >> sud;Zones industrielles) @ weight>3.5 AND hgv" >> - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/71zRlujmD69aPg35BFO1r6), >> the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged destination="La Voivre", >> destination:bicycle="La Voivre;Sᵗ Dié" and destination:ref="C 3" >> >> Is that correct? Can I edit the Wiki destination tag page to give these >> informations, or maybe should I submit a RFC to formalize this? >> >> Awaiting your answers, >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Conditional destinations (hgv, bicycle, maxweight…)
No, such restrictions are typically not applied directly on the road indicated by the sign; they are present on other road segments along the indicated route, or may not be present at all, because the road network manager wants to encourage some kinds of vehicles to use a specific route, without explicitly forbidding them on the other roads. -- Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ Le vendredi 31 juillet 2020 15:59, Paul Johnson a écrit : > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:53 AM David Marchal via Tagging > wrote: > >> Hello, there. >> >> I'm wondering, there are destination signs which only apply to some kind of >> vehicles: for HGV, for bicycles, for pedestrians, for vehicles below 12t… >> How would I tag such destinations? The simple way would be to use, >> respectively, destination:hgv=*, destination:bicycle=*, destination:foot=*, >> destination:conditional="* @ weight<12". Am I right to assume these? > > access=destination, bicycle=destination, foot=destination, > access:conditional=destination @ weight<12___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Conditional destinations (hgv, bicycle, maxweight…)
Hello, there. I'm wondering, there are destination signs which only apply to some kind of vehicles: for HGV, for bicycles, for pedestrians, for vehicles below 12t… How would I tag such destinations? The simple way would be to use, respectively, destination:hgv=*, destination:bicycle=*, destination:foot=*, destination:conditional="* @ weight<12". Am I right to assume these? If so, some examples: - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/mo0AKf9masIEfpJtySH8fw), the road ahead would be tagged (regardless of direction), destination="Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare S.N.C.F.;Gare" and destination:hgv="Vesoul;Mulhouse;Darney;Plombières;Bains-les-B.;Gare S.N.C.F.;Gare" - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/Oz3Om7pGbk7LA5wSmYLRew), the link would be tagged destination:fee="Milan;Turin;Aoste;Courmayeur;Tunnel du Mᵗ Blanc" - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/pNJJG6ST4njXchZDQZ3XPw), the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged destination="Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers sud;Zones industrielles" and destination:conditional="(Saint-Dié;Raon-l’Étape;Épinal;Bruyères;Remiremont;Quartiers sud;Zones industrielles) @ weight>3.5 AND hgv" - in this example (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/71zRlujmD69aPg35BFO1r6), the road exiting the turnaround would be tagged destination="La Voivre", destination:bicycle="La Voivre;Sᵗ Dié" and destination:ref="C 3" Is that correct? Can I edit the Wiki destination tag page to give these informations, or maybe should I submit a RFC to formalize this? Awaiting your answers, Regards. -- Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
