Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposals - RFC - Magnetic Levitation Trains

[Holger Jeromin]

Erkin Alp Güney  Wrote in message:
> > Another is magnetic levitation trains, this one having completed its
>> draft quickly. This brings railway=maglev tag and its associated
>> rendering. 
>> 
> Resent as per listmaster's request.
> 

Currently we have world wide one disused, one active test rail and
 one commercial route.

You should look at the tagging of these rails and discuss problems
 with it.

Last time i checked they were tagged as =monorail. 

Your main point on the wiki is the incompatible rail for maglevs.
 But the same is valid for all monorails. 

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Re: [Tagging] service:car for car shops and repair

[Holger Jeromin]

wille  Wrote in
 message:
> Hi,
> 
> Some days ago I made a pull request to iD editor with some fields to make it 
> easy for the user to set the service:bicycle tags in Bicycle shops. Bryan 
> Housel, iD main developer, proposed to use the same pattern to car repair and 
> shop tags.
> 
> Currently, the wiki recommendation is to tag the services offered by a 
> car_shop or car_retail using service=dealer;repair;tyres;parts
> 

Often the car repair has different opening hours (telephone or
 other meta data) that's why I tag them as a separate poi:
 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4436235201
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Re: [Tagging] non-temporary usage of highway=road

[Holger Jeromin]

Aun Johnsen  Wrote
 in message:
> I see a lot of usage of the generic tag highway=road, which is meant as a 
> temporary tag and a ?low level entry tag? for beginners. The problem with 
> this is that because of its ambiguous meaning, it is impossible for data 
> consumers to process this correctly. 
> 
> i.e., highway=road means anything between a small footway to motorway, so a 
> routing engine might wrongfully send cars down a set of steps or a hiker up a 
> motorway
> 
> As described on the proposal page, this tag is meant to be temporary until 
> more data can be obtained from survey.
> 
> I have now had a few rounds of cleanup of the usage of this tag in Brazil. My 
> cleanup run last year found highway=road that had been unedited for 3 years, 
> so hardly temporary. This year I found several highway=road added by armchair 
> mappers from Europe, and I doubt they ever will travel to the remote areas of 
> Brazil to correct this.
> 
(...) 
> In my opinion, a warning about its temporary state and non-capability with 
> data consumers should be added to the wiki, and it should be removed from the 
> standard presets of all the common editors. Also editors with validation 
> functions should give a warning about the existence of this temporary tag so 
> that it can be dealt with properly by people editing in the areas, and 
> further QA tools should highlight them as items needing attention.
>   
> 

Sadly this issue was closed 

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2742

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=horse_riding or leisure=sports_centre

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer  Wrote in message:
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> Il giorno 15 set 2016, alle ore 12:29, gscscnd  ha scritto:
> 
> What do you think about it? Should there be a separate horse_riding
>> tag (and if so, should it be rendered on main map?) or shall we use sports 
>> centre

Thanks for opening this thread!

> I'm fine with horse riding, it is a reasonably specific tag while sports 
> centre can be anything, especially in combination with sport=multi
>

The (my) idea was to suggest leisure = sport_centre +
 sport=equestrian as an alternative to leisure =horse riding.
 

So "can be anything" is no valid argument  imo. 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Education 2.0

[Holger Jeromin]

=?UTF-8?B?0KjQuNGI0LrQuNC9INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90L
TRgCAoU2hpc2hraW4gQWxlksandr=29?=  Wrote in message:
> Proposal for the new more flexible and extendable education tagging system:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0
> Please, leave the comments on the discussion page.
>
 
you should take a look at the German kindergarten optional tags.
 These were worked out a few weeks ago in the German forum
 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:amenity%3Dkindergarten

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Re: [Tagging] AirBnB

[Holger Jeromin]

Dave Swarthout  Wrote in message:
> I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably 
> sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house but personally as one who 
> frequently uses AirBnB, I would like to be able to locate them more precisely 
> than is possible using the maps on their website, which are not very exact. 
> The locations can be off by several city blocks and when one is pulling a big 
> roller bag along behind it would be nice be able to walk directly to the 
> correct location.
> In searching Taginfo, I saw only a few instances of the word "AirBnB" and 
> most of those were tagged as operator=AirBnB. As I understand it, the 
> operators are the owners of the property whereas AirBnB is a corporation that 
> contracts with those owners in some sort of a franchise arrangement.
> Another common tag containing the term "AirBnB" is the website URL that 
> points to the specific property. The one I'm working on at the moment is near 
> where I live and is quite a nice venue:
> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/6020019
> 
> Suggestions?

Perhaps network = fits better. 

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Re: [Tagging] Bridge relations. Is that a 'thing'?

[Holger Jeromin]

Dave F 
 Wrote in message:
> Hi
> 
> Recent addition in my neck of the woods:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5979157
> 
> A relations collecting together the bridge outline & all the lanes. It's 
> the first I've come across. Are they widespread.
> 
> IMO I can't quite see the point of it & to me, comes under the heading 
> 'relations aren't meant to be collections of things'.
> 
> Opinions?

The concept is quite old 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_
Tunnels

About 4000 relations are tagged. 

I think with the current rendering in OSM carto of the outline
 (man_made=bridge) most mapper will stop with the outline. One
 main problem (bridge name is not highway name) is elegantly
 solved with the outline. 

I am not sure which questions are not answered by finding all ways
 inside the outline with the same layer. 

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Re: [Tagging] Art galleries/museums

[Holger Jeromin]

Frederik Ramm 
 Wrote in message:
> Hi,
> 
>the German word "Galerie" is often used for art showrooms where you
> can actually buy the stuff on display. (I know a couple that are not
> larger than a typical hairdresser's.) Hence I wouldn't be surprised if
> many of the 415 tourism=gallery features in Germany were such
> establishments. They're certainly not museums.

All of the gallery objects around Aachen are shops and the real
 world galleries are tagged as museums. 

Official moving to museum would be a good step imo. 

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Re: [Tagging] Swimming pools

[Holger Jeromin]

Matthijs Melissen  Wrote in message:
> Hi all,
> 
> There are currently two tags for swimming pools in use:
> * leisure=swimming_pool (511?413 occurences)
> * amenity=swimming_pool (46?495 occurences)


Important topic. Imo for an outdoor water area the
 leisure=swimming pool is OK. 

What about a tag for all swimming facilities (building or area)
 and a separate tag for main usage 
=fun
=wellness 
=health 
=learning 
=sport or competitive 

Would be a easy solution for rendering (can ignore the sub tag)
 and data consumer. 

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Re: [Tagging] Swimming pools

[Holger Jeromin]

Matthijs Melissen <info-+UGbi7YX9/mGpCn6Dmg+AoRW
q/skr...@public.gmane.org> Wrote in message:
> 
> 
> On 18 Dec 2015 19:46, "Holger Jeromin" <gm...@katur.de> wrote:
> 
>> What about a tag for all swimming facilities (building or area)
> 
>>  and a separate tag for main usage
> 
>> =fun
> 
>> =wellness
> 
>> =health
> 
>> =learning
> 
>> =sport or competitive
> 
>>
> 
>> Would be a easy solution for rendering (can ignore the sub tag)
> 
>>  and data consumer.
> That would make sense, but coming up with a good tag for this seems quite 
> hard. Do you have a proposal?

I found the nice fitting primary_usage on taginfo. This seems to
 be an attribute for some Swedish highway=track and one parking .
 

But we could use waterpark:usage for separation of meaning. Or
 whatever the main tag is chosen. 

I would be happy if this main tag would be water park, as many
 mapper are using that because of the rendering already.
 


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Re: [Tagging] amenity=bicycle_repair_station

[Holger Jeromin]

Erik Johansson 
 Wrote in message:
> amenity=diy_tool_station
> bicycle=yes
> iceskates=yes
> locked=yes
> opening_hours=during games.

Nice idea! 
Ski lifts have often screwdrivers (for adjusting skis and
 snowboards), too.

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Re: [Tagging] Unmarked opening hours

[Holger Jeromin]

Michael Reichert  Wrote in
 message:
> Hi Micha?,
> 
> Am 2015-10-10 um 21:28 schrieb Micha? Brzozowski:
>> In the course of surveys, I fill in opening_hours of shops and other
>> venues. Sometimes though, they are not marked outside. Therefore, when
>> looking at a feature that lacks opening_hours other mappers and I
>> can't tell the reason. I've been thinking of a standardized way of
>> marking such cases, like:
>> opening_hours:status=unmarked
>> which is to be understood that mapper didn't see opening hours
>> displayed outside (but other sources may be available).
> 
> I have been using opening_hours=none for this purpose.
> 
> If the community agrees on my suggestion, we have to fix all those
> validators which show warnings on opening_hours=none.

I would read "none" as: always closed. 
This topic is about: not easy to find on the ground. 


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Re: [Tagging] Local highways classifications

[Holger Jeromin]

Daniel Ko? dan...@xn--ko-wla.pl Wrote
 in message:
 There's a lengthy discussion going on polish forum about using 
 motorway/trunk tagging for our main highways:
 
 http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=31488
 
 It looks that whatever solution we will choose, there's no clear mapping 
 between OSM and country-level classification of highways, so it makes 
 sense to tag them also with well-known and complete local scheme, which 
 could be written down like:
 
 highway:class:pl=S/A/GP/G
 highway:category:pl=2/4/6/7 (the number is the same as the corresponding 
 admin_level)
 
 I'd like to know if this scheme works also for some other (still 
 probably not all) countries, so we could also use:
 
 highway:class:xx=*
 highway:category:xx=*
 
 as a general local-level classification scheme?

What about 
highway:class=pl:S/A/GP/G
or
highway:local_class=pl:S/A/GP/G

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[Tagging] healthcare: attribute or stand alone tag? (was Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Blood donation 2)

[Holger Jeromin]

André Pirard wrote on 29.06.2015 17:08:
 On 2015-06-22 23:20, Holger Jeromin wrote :

No i did not wrote one single line in this quote... Please reply on the
right message the next time.

 Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com Wrote in message:
 After the proposal Donation was rejected, I tried to address the
 issues that were raised in a new proposal using
 healthcare=blood_donation:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2
 You are of course welcome to point out any flaws.
 Like I said, could you please in your proposal *stress* that healthcare
 is not an object but an attribute of an object.
 There is no such thing as a healthcare on a map but a building can be
 used for healthcare.
 Then, healthcare is an attribute of that building.
 Out of curiosity, I've had a look at Key:healthcare
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare  and it's exactly
 what it says:
 ... add *healthcare*=* to to an area that has building

Is this (5 years later) really still true? I am quite happy with my
(indoor tagging) node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1227761407#map=19/50.77699/6.04469

Is a restaurant or hotel also a attribute to an object?

 You should give an example of for example a school where blood_donation
 takes place:
 
 building=school
 or
 building=yes
 school=yes

Eeks, not a good example tag :)

 and
 healthcare=blood_donation
 or
 healthcare:blood_donation=yes
 healthcare:anything_else=yes  (if there are several)



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Re: [Tagging] healthcare: attribute or stand alone tag? (was Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Blood donation 2)

[Holger Jeromin]

Holger Jeromin wrote on 29.06.2015 18:55:
 André Pirard wrote on 29.06.2015 17:08:
 Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com Wrote in message:
 After the proposal Donation was rejected, I tried to address the
 issues that were raised in a new proposal using
 healthcare=blood_donation:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2
 You are of course welcome to point out any flaws.
 Like I said, could you please in your proposal *stress* that healthcare
 is not an object but an attribute of an object.
 There is no such thing as a healthcare on a map but a building can be
 used for healthcare.
 Then, healthcare is an attribute of that building.
 Out of curiosity, I've had a look at Key:healthcare
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare  and it's exactly
 what it says:

Could you please read the part of the sentence before this quote:
Create a node in the center of the building or property and tag it with
healthcare=*... or 

 ... add *healthcare*=* to to an area that has building

 Is this (5 years later) really still true? I am quite happy with my
 (indoor tagging) node:

so my node is perfect a valid healthcare poi.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Blood donation 2

[Holger Jeromin]

Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com
 Wrote in message:
 After the proposal Donation was rejected, I tried to address the
 issues that were raised in a new proposal using
 healthcare=blood_donation:
 
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2
 
 You are of course welcome to point out any flaws.

In Healthcare 2.0 there is a tag defined (quite hidden), but I was
 the only person who used it :-) 

In Aachen you can decide if you want money or a voucher from some
 local companies ;-) 
Some voucher have a bonus in the value. 25 euro vs 30 Euro voucher
  or 25 euro cinema + 5 Euro popcorn / drinks 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Blood donation 2

[Holger Jeromin]

Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com
 Wrote in message:
 2015-06-22 23:20 GMT+02:00 Holger Jeromin gm...@katur.de:
 Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com
  Wrote in message:
 After the proposal Donation was rejected, I tried to address the
 issues that were raised in a new proposal using
 healthcare=blood_donation:

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2

 You are of course welcome to point out any flaws.

 In Healthcare 2.0 there is a tag defined (quite hidden), but I was
  the only person who used it :-)

 In Aachen you can decide if you want money or a voucher from some
  local companies ;-)
 Some voucher have a bonus in the value. 25 euro vs 30 Euro voucher
   or 25 euro cinema + 5 Euro popcorn / drinks
 
 A bit complicated ...
 
 My first thought would be changing the proposal to
 donation:compensation=yes/no and if yes, use subtags
 donation:compensation:payment/vouchers/...=yes.
 
 So e.g.:
 
 ? donation:compensation=no
 
 ? donation:compensation=yes +
donation:compensation:vouchers=yes
(and let that imply that there's no payment)
 
 ? donation:compensation=yes +
donation:compensation:payment=yes +
donation:compensation:vouchers=yes
 
 Looking for opinions here.

Seems ok for me. 

 With the vouchers you receive around here, you can only get small
 gifts in the donation centre itself, e.g. comics, (cheap) computer
 mice, bibs... With more vouchers you can also buy tickets for certain
 amusement parks.
 Would it be okay to have these vouchers and local company vouchers in
 the same tag?

Yes. Imo a good tag for both. No need for further micro mapping of
 these details. 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Holger Jeromin]

Ruben Maes ruben.mae...@gmail.com
 Wrote in message:
 Replied inline below.
 
 2015-06-10 6:52 GMT+02:00 Holger Jeromin gm...@katur.de:
 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com Wrote
  in message:

 We have blood donation fully integrated in Healthcare 2.0 as far
  as I remember.
 I do not see the need for a separate tag proposal.
 
 The closest I could find is healthcare=blood_bank, in the proposal
 page for Healthcare 1.0, with a link to blood bank on Wikipedia[1]
 (where it says A blood bank is a cache or bank of blood or blood
 components, gathered as a result of blood donation or collection,
 stored and preserved for later use in blood transfusion.).
 The word blood is never used in Healthcare 2.0 as far as I can see.
 


Sorry, it is on the speciality sub page 
health_specialty:transfusion_medicine


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Donation

[Holger Jeromin]

Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com Wrote
 in message:

 Ok .. I'm wrong there.. you can donate just blood plasma. 
 
 Not normal practice here for donations. A normal blood donation is
 whole blood. 
 
 But maybe in other places they do plasma only?  
 

Plasma only is common in Germany, at least in Aachen. 

We have blood donation fully integrated in Healthcare 2.0 as far
 as I remember. 
I do not see the need for a separate tag proposal. 


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Re: [Tagging] Problem with airport classification

[Holger Jeromin]

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuM
w...@public.gmane.org Wrote in message:
 So, would it be OK to assume that large airports are important and small ones 
 (including mapped as nodes)
 are unimportant?

 
Area size, take off count and passenger count does not give the
 only small heliport in a 2h drive priority. 

But I think a calculation like 
Big way area (for Europe) OR is the only aerial feature in 50 km
 radius (for other countries) would not be very cheap.
 

So I guess area size is the way to go in the near future. 
  


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Re: [Tagging] New openstreetmap-carto version: please check country and state boundaries

[Holger Jeromin]

Pieren wrote on 11.12.2014 10:11:
 Anyway, you speak about a name and a ref for the relation. Since
 when do we need a ref for an admin boundary ?

This is used for the short labels at zoom 4. Just look at the US at that
zoom level.

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Re: [Tagging] New openstreetmap-carto version: please check country and state boundaries

[Holger Jeromin]

Matthijs Melissen wrote on 10.12.2014 18:29:
 Lesotho seems to be the only country with state nodes but without
 state boundaries. It would be great if someone were able to import
 state boundaries for this country.

The States from Lesotho seems to be named as districts, which are
already in the database. No need to import something.

Berea for example has http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1252926 but
is admin level 5...
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lesotho#Borders_and_Boundaries leaves
this open.
By looking at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Admin_level Lesotho
should have districts on 4. This was in the past, but
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/24031629 changed this.

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Re: [Tagging] semantic issue with genus in the wiki, wetland, plant nursery, ...

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 01.12.2014 11:22:
 I believe there are some semantic issues with how the wiki currently
 suggests to tag details of plants, e.g. with the tags genus or species.
 
 Now to plant nurseries, according to the wiki the suggested tagging is
 (they do not have their own tag but rely on the landuse attribute, but
 that is another topic I will not deal with here):
 
 landuse=plant_nursery
 plant=* The generic type of plant that is grown, e.g. tree, herb, bush,
 grass, vine, fern, moss, green-algae
 genus=*
 species=*
 ...
 
 wait, this is strange, the same tag genus now does not refer to the
 object it is attached to (an implicit plant_nursery) but refers to the
 plants that are grown.
 
 
 Similarly, on the genus key page, there are references to
 natural=wetland etc.
 
 I think this is an inconsistency in tagging and would be interested to
 hear if you believe the recommendation should be changed. E.g. we could
 have a plant:genus to explicitly state that the genus refers to the
 plants rather than the nursery.

genus and species is defined as a name for an organism, not only plants.

I added the species to animals in a zoo:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/286321033

So for producing landuse like plant_nursery a prefix named product:
seems nicer.
A landuse=vineyard could default to product:vitis.

Oh, on this wikipage i found the crop key for producing landuses...

Really a mess.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Pipeline Extensions

[Holger Jeromin]

Rainer Fügenstein wrote on 14.11.2014 17:42:

 f 2. We already have support=* which is used with man_made=surveillance
 f and is much more in use than mount=*. Do we really need two almost
 f identical tags ?
 I agree with you on that. any chance to list it on the
 man_made=surveillance wiki page?

support is used for clocks, too. Perhaps this is the origin :)


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Re: [Tagging] Rooftop parking - new parking=rooftop value?

[Holger Jeromin]

johnw wrote on 11.11.2014 06:38:

 I’m not sure of other countries, but at least in the US, parking on
 top of retail structures is exceedingly rare - usually there are
 adjacent multi-story parking structures. It always seems that there
 is some kind of code or cost savings preventing it, always forcing it
 to be underground or lower level parking inside the building itself,
 which really isn’t mappable.

 In Japan, rooftop parking on multistory buildings (bottom floors are
 shops, and the roof is parking) is quite common.  sometimes there is
 more than one upper floor used for parking - it was such a surprise
 to find a 5 story Costco, with 2 bottom floors for the retail space,
 and the top 3 for car parking.

Ok, you want to have one way for the whole building. I dont think this
would work.

What differs a full 5 level multi-story parking and a
4 level parking on top of one shop level? Why use rooftop instead of
multi-story?
Where is the border when to use rooftop and when multi-story? Majority
of levels used not for parking?

Suppose a way with the tags:
building=yes
building:levels=5
amenity=parking
parking=rooftop
shop=department_store

How much of the building is the department_store, how much parking?
What about a amenity=school? we cannot reuse the amenity tag on the same
way.

I would suggest two overlapping ways:
building=yes
amenity=parking
parking=multi-story
building:levels=5
building:min_levels=2
layer=1

and
building=retail
building:levels=2
shop=department_store

If we have only the roof used, we could map it as surface with a
min_height and layer.

 I assume there is a need to create a new parking=rooftop or similar
 tag, which can then be used to create more accurate renderers
 (perhaps by also placing the parking=rooftop tag onto the
 service=parking isle service roads, so they are similarly
 (translucently?) rendered.

translucent should be IMO only indoor (aka tunnel) ways.

-- 
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Holger


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Re: [Tagging] Rooftop parking - new parking=rooftop value?

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 11.11.2014 11:01:

 2014-11-11 10:56 GMT+01:00 Holger Jeromin
 mailgm...@katur.de
 I would suggest two overlapping ways:
 building=yes
 amenity=parking
 parking=multi-story
 building:levels=5
 building:min_levels=2
 layer=1
 
 and
 building=retail
 building:levels=2
 shop=department_store
 Me similarily, but would propose to use a multipolygon relation instead.
 That's why they are there, overlapping ways are hard to maintain and
 more difficult to spot.

Instead?

Adding a relation to the two overlapping ways seems not making it
easier. The building (parts?) have the same outline, so they have to
overlap in the first place.

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Re: [Tagging] Rooftop parking - new parking=rooftop value?

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 11.11.2014 13:36:

 2014-11-11 12:53 GMT+01:00 Tobias Knerr
 On 11.11.2014 06:38, johnw wrote:
  I assume there is a need to create a new parking=rooftop or similar 
 tag, which can then be used to create more accurate renderers (perhaps by 
 also placing the parking=rooftop tag onto the service=parking isle service 
 roads, so they are similarly (translucently?) rendered.
 The issue of service roads already hints at a larger problem: There are
 many different things that can be on a rooftop, not just parking.
 
 Therefore, would prefer a generic tag that can be added to any feature,
 e.g. location=rooftop.
 what about the surface value, isn't rooftop (only) parking covered by
 parking=surface? I am not completely sure languagewise, and the wiki
 doesn't give any definition for the values...

Think of an stone building, with grass on top on which you can park your
car. surface= has to be grass, not rooftop.

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Re: [Tagging] Rooftop parking - new parking=rooftop value?

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 11.11.2014 12:21:

 2014-11-11 11:09 GMT+01:00 Holger Jeromin
  Me similarily, but would propose to use a multipolygon relation
 instead.
  That's why they are there, overlapping ways are hard to maintain and
  more difficult to spot.
 Instead?
 Adding a relation to the two overlapping ways seems not making it
 easier. The building (parts?) have the same outline, so they have to
 overlap in the first place.
 no, you won't have any overlapping ways any more, just one way, and all
 overlapping geometries can become multipolygon relations with
 appropriate layer tags (etc.)

Ah.
One untagged way and two MP-relations with the building and parking Tags.

The selection of multiple relations of one object is often easier as
multiple ways in current editors. You are right.

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[Tagging] mixed guesthouse/hotel with restaurants (was Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.23.0)

[Holger Jeromin]

Andreas Labres wrote on 30.10.2014 15:06:
 There are some different terms for lodging, bed  breakfast, guest house,
 boarding house, pension, inn, hostel, motel, appartment house (?), chalet, and
 hotel. Guest house seems to be (plz correct me) a generic term for bed 
 breakfast as well as pension as well as inn. Maybe these should be sortet out
 somewhat useful... and it should be matched with, say, our German terms.
 
 BTW, rendering of typical Gasthaus/Gasthof which mainly is a restaurant as
 well as offers some rooms to stay - these should be rendered differently 
 than a
 guest house! Currently they are rendered like a pension, omitting the (most
 important) restaurant part.

Can you give an example?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/85069658
omittes the guest_house information.

rendering both (hotel or guesthouse with restaurant) was rejected here
as a wrong tagging:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/969

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Re: [Tagging] what does maxheight=none mean?

[Holger Jeromin]

Tom Pfeifer wrote on 27.10.2014 10:20:

 As said before I am not against keeping a record of a bridge being checked,
 just the value =none is misleading.
 
 Another problem is that the tag is on the way under the bridge, and
 not the bridge way itself. That leads to the situation that somebody
 tags a 15km motorway because one bridge is unsigned. The next mapper
 splits the way to tag some turn:lanes, and thus creates segments
 of the road where there is no bridge at all.

So what?
This tag indicates that the segment of the street is checked and there
is no legal limit visible.
If this situation comes from a mapped bridge or some other (unmapped?)
thing is no difference.
It says: As a mapper i do not have to walk there and check the sign, as
someone has done it (and found none).

QA tools should only check ways under a bridge for this tag, but should
not warn if this tag is at an way without a bridge.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] what does maxheight=none mean?

[Holger Jeromin]

moltonel 3x Combo wrote on 27.10.2014 11:04:

 * It can lead to mapping errors ... a bridge is
 added somewhere else, etc.

The problem of outdated information is completely unrelated to this tag.

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Re: [Tagging] service= tag confusion

[Holger Jeromin]

johnw wrote on 20.10.2014 05:21:

 On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:22 AM, Jack Burke burke...@gmail.com wrote:

 However, on the wiki page for the service tag
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:service
 it only mentions its use for highways, railways and waterways.
 There are several other uses of the service key, like on waterway=canal
 + service=irrigation. 

No new information. This usage was in Jacks post already.

 So there must be other tags where the documentation exists for the other
 uses of the service tag only with the parent key. 


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Re: [Tagging] separator for addr:housenumber=*

[Holger Jeromin]

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote on 24.08.2014 22:50:

 Il giorno 24/ago/2014, alle ore 14:03, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com ha 
 scritto:
 On the other hand, if you see an object tagged
  addr:housenumber=265-269
  addr:interpolation=odd
 then we can be quite confident that the mapper intended you to
 interpret this as 265 and 267 and 269.
 Yes, but more simple you could tag as well addr:housenumber=265;267;269 with 
 no need for interpolation or even a second tag.

As i said:
You do not want to expand w159099798 to
addr:housenumber=15,17,19,21,23,25,27

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Re: [Tagging] separator for addr:housenumber=*

[Holger Jeromin]

Andreas Labres wrote on 20.08.2014 04:10:
 On 19.08.14 23:17, fly wrote:
 but 265-267 is wrong

Read as tagging 265-267 alone is wrong.

 Disagree. addr:housenumber is the official number given to that building. And 
 if
 it's 265-267, then addr:housenumber=265-267 is the only correct 
 implementation
 of this.

But osm db needs a hint that 266 is missing. That is obvious on the
street (by looking at the right and left building) but not in the data.

 This is not a listing, this is a label only.

We are not (only) painting nice maps.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] interpolated housenumbers on single objects

[Holger Jeromin]

fly wrote on 18.08.2014 17:40:
 Am 18.08.2014 16:29, schrieb Dan S:
 I intuitively re-used the addr:interpolation tag, but applied it to a
 single object. For example we might have this on a single node or a
 building:
   addr:housenumber=100-126
   addr:interpolation=even
   addr:street=Malmesbury Road

exactly what i have done in some buildings in Aachen. The sign/reality
(ground truth :) is exactly represented and additionally housenumber 101
is not searched here by interpolation.

 How would you tag it?
 Alternatively, you could tag the housenumbers as a list. (

But the list could be long (and ugly *duck*) and es not representing
reality.

You do not want to expand w159099798 to
addr:housenumber=15,17,19,21,23,25,27

-- 
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[Tagging] seafood vs fishmonger (was Re: Synonymous values in the shop key)

[Holger Jeromin]

Mateusz Konieczny wrote on 10.07.2014 11:50:
 Although since the rules are for josm validation so will be checked by
 a human, I guess that's low-risk right?
 I thought about JOSM validator rule with fix button, so it would
 not be safe to assume that it will be carefully checked (the same type
 of rule as [natural=marsh] to [natural=wetland, wetland=marsh]).
 
 But tricky ones can be just reported with explanation that
 true type of shop should be verified (shop=fish is ambiguous, it
 should be changed to either [shop=seafood] or [shop=pet, pet=fish]).
 
 According to Wikipedia In North America, although not generally
 in the United Kingdom, the term seafood is extended to fresh water
 organisms eaten by humans, so all edible aquatic life may be referred
 to as seafood..

apart from a hard definition i like Mortens argument:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-April/001859.html
'For non-UK-english speakers fishmonger sounds like a swearword. I
much prefer the easily understandable and nationality neutral
shop=seafood.'

The voting was performed using the extended North-American definition
- there including fresh water:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/seafood_shop

So i see no problem in tagging seafood for every dead fish.

Is there really a shop selling only fresh water fish or salt water fish?
Or the other way round: do i want to find a shop selling only fresh
water and no salt water fish?

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[Tagging] aerialway=mixed_lift

[Holger Jeromin]

Hello,

I found the rare but (in winter sport areas) important mixed_lifts with
chairs and gondolas are not rendered on the osm mainpage.

An issue for the rendering style
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/347
suggested a discussion about this tag here on the tagging list.

I see no alternative to add this additional value in aerialway due to
its difference to a chair_lift or a gondola. But a relation would add
unneeded complexity to the feature.

Additional tagging to further define the lift future proof could be
aerialway=mixed_lift
mixed_lift:chair=yes
mixed_lift:gondola=yes

I found a small note about this tag at:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.tagging/16695/

 What if there is a mixed lift with chairs that have 4 seats and chairs that 
 have 2 seats?

This could be solved by a prefix
mixed_lift:chair:occupancy=2
mixed_lift:gondola:occupancy=4
mixed_lift:occupancy=3 //for backward compatibility if wanted

What do you think?

-- 
best regards
Holger



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