Re: [Tagging] inconsistencies in bridge
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:39:53 +0200 Lennard l...@xs4all.nl wrote: That's one thing I've never really understood with railway=abandoned either. Sure, many of them have been converted into might fine cycleways, but that's just what they are now: cycleways. You can abandon a railway and still have a something on the ground which can be identified, ignoring reuse such as rail-trails. But an abandoned bridge? Is it still a bridge? or is it broken down and unusable - in which case it is not a bridge but a broken down ex-bridge. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Homeless Shelter
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010, Sean Horgan wrote: Thanks for the reply John. I found this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Shelter, but this seems specific to recreation. You could place a tag on the homeless_shelter to cover the demographic served, i.e. women, children, etc. i recall a discussion on either this list or 'talk' which covered residential facilities - orphanages, old people's homes and similar. not sure if it translated into tags documented on the wiki ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sidewalks
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: yes, you can see that arthur st/wastell ct. in the east has an informal footway (the one of the link I modified from yours), in the west it hasn't. You can also see it on the nearmap aerial (even though it is a bit hard to see it because it hides in the shaddow). but the presence or absence of the informal footway depends on the gardening skills of the adjoining householders, and is not related to the quantity of foot traffic sorry about this, but this is a cultural thing. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sidewalks
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote:
Grass is a legitimate surface for a footway. That doesn't mean that
all grass is part of a footway, any more than all asphalt is part of a
road.
This is very cultural.
Au city situation
The part of the Road Reserve which is between the property boundary of the
householder and the kerb and guttering is publicly owned, and is the correct
place to walk.
At the same time the householder is expected to maintain the area, with grass,
and water, fertilise and mow the area, preventing the wear marks which
indicate a footway.
Deviants make extensions of their gardens and put in a formal footpath through
the garden area. You may not prevent persons walking there under normal
circumstances.
Rarely does the council provide a concreted strip suitable for light wheeled
traffic - children's bikes, {prams, strollers, pushers}, wheelchairs, etc.
Au rural situation
same legal rights and obligations but landholders don't actively encourage
grass to grow. They may use glyphosate instead.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] No proposal labeling
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, Matthias Meißer wrote: Sry I don't understand your point. If you limit a sports shop saying sports=football it is clear that he spots on football related things only, right? well that would be four different sports covered immediately in Australia ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] craft= Proposal
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Peter Körner wrote: Am 24.08.2010 10:43, schrieb Élisée Reclus: Am 24.08.2010 10:08, schrieb Peter Körner: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MaZderMind/Key:craft http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MaZderMind/DE:Key:craft Are artists, computer experts, fashion designers, funeral directors and photographers really craftsmen? There could also be a service=* with service=tax_advisor etc. I'd love to see this proposal but I wanted to get the craft= through, first. I also see some values on the list that are no crafts in my understanding, like craft=butcher or craft=bakery, but the question is -- why? How do we express this separation in words? English has craftsman vs tradesman butcher, baker are tradesmen and the furniture maker is either a tradesman or a craftsman the weaver is a craftsman (please note, none are restricted in sex to male, even though they are all *man*) so a craftsman would be doing something with raw materials to produce something useful, a permanent object, and with some sense of beauty in its form. the butcher and baker are working with raw materials, producing something temporary and not required to have beauty in its form the furniture maker is a tradesman when producing rough work and a craftsman when producing more beautiful items ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ele-key for lakes / water bodies and glaciers
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Elena of Valhalla wrote: on the way that marks the boundary of lakes etc. I would expect the ele key to tag the average height of the water surface, since that is what is constant on the whole lake I live in a land of drought and flooding rains (apologies to the poet). So the level of water in various lakes and reservoirs varies from zero to maximal so there is no constant level and the average value is not meaningful either http://waterinfo.nsw.gov.au/water.shtml?ppbm=STORAGE_SITEda3dakm_url (requires Firefox 3.x at least) click on a marker - try those near Broken Hill and see the historical data. Some there have been zero to 120% capacity in the last year (don't doubt my arithmetic, that's off the website) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ele-key for lakes / water bodies and glaciers
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Elena of Valhalla wrote: but is the bottom of such lakes a flat surface with a constant elevation? if it isn't, such a value wouldn't be meaningful as well on some it is eg Lake Cargelligo is almost flat at the bottom - I've seen it empty and others are obviously not ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? a similar item from the 19th Century is called a bandstand do they have a tag yet? otherwise I would consider them equivalent and tag them the same ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: You will find residential roads in residental, commercial or industrial areas. This seems very wrong to me. Can I get input from others? you may. The categories have strange names and are used differently in different jurisdictions so I map residential roads in residential, commercial and industrial areas and put unclassified roads in rural areas While there would be scope for a greater granularity in the roads classification that would result in great upheaval for mappers ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapnik reender
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, just.st...@lesve.org wrote: Claudius Henrichs wrote, On 2010-08-22 18:31: Am 22.08.2010 16:20, LeSve: How should I map a statue (Monument) so the reendering will se it. Specially in mapnik version. Maybe it is not possible ? /LeSve Depending on the nature of the statue use either historic=memorial or tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture Claudius To have it work I used tourism = attraction historic = =memorial In that case it come as both as icon and name /LeSve You have happily broken one of the written rules - tagging something so that it renders Did you consider a request for a new icon and a render of that icon for the statue? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Non Proposed Features
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, Cartinus wrote: Concluding less than six hours after your initial post to this mailinglist that nobody has a problem with what you propose is: youthfull exuberance ? impatience ? It is certainly is not the way to go. 6 hours isn't one rotation of the earth, and certainly is less than my sleep hours and even smaller than my working hours. 6 hours is not enough time for me to get round to reading the mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Energy generator power types
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, Tom Chance wrote: Just to help summarise, with these proposals we end up with: power=generator (the starting point) power_rating (to specify the watts generated) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_rating power_source (to specify the fuel type / energy source) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_source power_output (to specify what type energy is generated) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/power_type power_method (to specify how it generates the useful energy) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/power_method I'm not likely to be using any of these tags soon, but the scheme demonstrates consideration of the whole spectrum of possible tagging required. I note that too many tags are one-offs with no consideration of where they fit in an organised set of tags. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Energy generator power types
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, Tom Chance wrote: I note that too many tags are one-offs with no consideration of where they fit in an organised set of tags. I've no idea what you mean. Could you explain? Example I need a tag for this item I'm standing next to. I'll call it amenity= Instead of There is no tag for this item I'm looking at now. What else belongs with it in the world and also needs a tag? Is it a need for another Key? - like agriculture or industrial which I haven't got to writing up yet. So you have looked at one thing, decided it was part of a set of things and described the set. It makes tagging far better. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping autonomous regions
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Paul Johnson wrote: We need to come up with a better way to map and tag autonomous regions, particularly in North America. The talk page for the boundary= suggests that an administrative boundary is not the right tag; and I couldn't disagree more. As a Cherokee, I find boundary=indian_reserve and boundary=native_nation to be intrinsically racist. While admin_level=1 is probably not right, I believe First Nations lines are administrative boundaries, the admin_level=* of which must reflect the degree of sovereignty agreed upon by treaty between the nation in question and the United States (or other potentially subjugating force). For example, the Cherokee Nation would be admin_level=2, whereas The Confederated Tribes of Grande Rhonde would be somewhere closer to the 3-5 range, and even smaller nations that got more heavily screwed over by the United States might fall in the 6-8 range. Yes, I realize this means Canada and the US and their member provinces, states, ridings and counties, would get turned into swiss cheese by most renderers, but are we looking for a map that looks like every other map, or a map that is accurate and objectively reflects the ground and legal truth? Paul, I can't comment on this at all, as I have no idea of how this works. However, I think that you need to put more detail into the proposal and put it up on the wiki for any other First Nation persons to comment on. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Paul Johnson wrote: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:20:33 +0100, Richard Mann wrote: Most of these call themselves vineyards http://www.englishwineproducers.com/scvineyard.htm Do they actually have a vineyard on site? At least locally (US:OR), a winery can't call itself a vineyard unless they're growing their grapes on site, though you can call yourself a winery whether or not you grow on- site (and indeed, the blue motorist information signs call 'em all wineries whether or not they have a vineyard). In AU, these small places which are calling themselves vineyards are called boutique wineries ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Paul Johnson wrote: Why would this matter? I don't know Are there actually places where it's legal to operate off the hard surface when the road is paved? Yes 25 years ago in outback Queensland the tightfisted government of the gerrymander king, Joh Bjelke-Peteresen, used to lay one lane of tar and claim the road was paved. Obviously 2 vehicles don't fit onto this at once, and passing a road train with 3 'dogs' under these circumstances was difficult. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train#Australia ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Living streets in the United States
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010, Pieren wrote: From the wiki it looks like something smaller or more restricted than a regular residential street, but bigger than a driveway. It's not smaller, physically it's a residential street that is transformed to a living street. The difference is the very low max speed and sometimes the dividing line on the ground between the cars and pedestrians is removed (then it's like a pedestrian street but cars still have access). I've tagged one in my efforts. It had a lower max speed, and a particular sign which explains what I thought a living street would be http://www.advancedroadsigns.com.au/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDesc=NPhotoURL=//images.advancedroadsigns.com.au/R4-4-2.jpg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: Wish there was an agriculture=* tag. Life could be simple: well living in an agricultural area I'd start with agriculture= rice wheat hops barley canola (modified rape seed CAnadaOiLa) grapes (subtypes table/wine or variety) citrus (subtypes needed) stone fruit (subtypes needed) (major type name needs to be supplied) subtags apples/pears/quince cotton hemp flowers vegetables (usually annual crops, subject to rotation, so might not be marked as subtypes) More suggestions welcome to complicate SteveB's life. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote: Is a 90km/h primary road safe bikeable? I know people who would be willing to ride a bicycle on a 55 mph primary road with no shoulder and one lane in each direction (not that I can think of such a road, other than maybe a few short bridges). Add in a second traffic lane, and I wouldn't even call them nutty. I can think of plenty and they are bicycle safe - even on the trunk road with a limit of 110kmh but they are not high traffic roads, crossing roads are few http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=3182 That's on the Cobb Highway. Shoulder is not rideable but still OK for cyclists ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Liz wrote: I can think of plenty and they are bicycle safe - even on the trunk road with a limit of 110kmh but they are not high traffic roads, crossing roads are few http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=3182 That's on the Cobb Highway. Shoulder is not rideable but still OK for cyclists and this one is the Sturt Highway, again 110kmh, used by long distance cyclists http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=4577 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Road closed in wet weather
Before this list existed, the need for a dry_weather_only tag was disputed on talk. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/02/2970371.htm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] emergency=*
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Dave F. wrote: In an emergency you don't give damn where that building is, just how quickly the ambulance can get to you. Emergency should be used for items that you need to find in an emergency. sorry, mate I don't agree I do need to know where that building is, and that is because I can also attend that building for attention. Two trips to the cop shop in the last two months; a while since i attended the ambulance station but it is still an option. And as my customers think everything is an 'emergency' we'd have to tag the shop where you buy condoms as 'emergency', as well as the pub, because running out of beer is another type of emergency. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] emergency=*
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Dave F. wrote: Actually it does, it splits things away from let's dump everything in the amenity key space... There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't cause a problem. I guess you have never tried to find a tag description on the wiki then. You will just have to imagine having open 3 very long pages of approved / proposed / abandoned proposals and searching for something which just approximates a particular type of amenity - let's assume its the workplace of an osteopath, and reading all the tags trying to decide whether this has its own tag already, or if it belongs with some other similar ones - say physical therapists or allied health. Now imagine reading the Italian wiki pages or the German wiki pages, whichever you can manage least, and consider the difficulties of finding a tag out of hundreds when its not your own language. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] emergency=*
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Toby Murray wrote: Then I guess a question would be would pharmacies be medical=pharmacy or remain shop=pharmacy? When I visited Holland (probably before you lot were born) the pharmacy sold only pharmaceuticals. It would be a medical=pharmacy. In Australia the pharmaceuticals are at the back of the shop, behind cosmetics, perfumes, cameras and accessories, possibly even soap powder on special. They are shop=pharmacy. Tucked inside the hospital is a real dispensary, medical=pharmacy. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Tobias Knerr wrote: There is no single appropriate categorization for all purposes. Therefore, categorization of features is a renderer decision and shouldn't be hardcoded into tagging. So I propose a new Key thing and we can put everything under thing. Let's never worry about shop, emergency, amenity, railway, everything is a thing so lets not worry about trying to make data easily usable or even make wiki pages easy to search. :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Richard Mann wrote: winery: no such word in en_gb, we just use vineyard for the whole operation (though of course we don't do these things on the same scale as Australia). Unless you're going to distinguish between shop=winery and shop=vineyard, I'd use the more generic term in the tagging system. Richard oddly, although winery is apparently of American origin no definition of vineyard I found in a quick look through paper and internet sources included winemaking. can you provide a definition of this use of the word? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, John Smith wrote: On 8 July 2010 21:31, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: I do not like the name conditions, by the way, because I think it does not cover the time aspect, but maybe that is just because I am not a native speaker. The name condition describes the type of restriction, but you could just take the reset of the tags without needing a name to know it's time based and what the speed limit is when the restriction is in effect. I think some examples would make this clearer. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [education] tag insttitute
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010, pavithran wrote: On 15 June 2010 07:09, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com In fact I'd be tempted to call them a specialised college's and sub-tag from there. In India colleges are mostly (99 %) bound by academic regulation from higher education boards/ universities . Guessing it would be the same elsewhere . While I am looking for a tag for institutions offering private classes /coaching . For example an institute which teaches for someone willling to study for RHCE ( Redhat certification) or PHP . Regards, Pavithran To be fair if we are going to subtag private educational institutions we should start amenity=education amenity= preschool/primary/secondary/tertiary/other/adult primary=Montessori/standard operator=government/church/ subjects=RHCE I can't think of an umbrella term for further education / adult education institutions in English. We have private colleges that teach foreign students, getting a lot of media attention in Australia at present, places that teach school students after school who need extra assistance, places aimed at general education of adults which teach literacy, computing skills, photography without a nationally recognised certificate at the conclusion. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010, pavithran wrote: Hi, I was very much surprised that a football ( the ball kicked by foot) which I tagged has shown a different ball in osmarendering . It is showing a ball used by american football . Some of the IRC discussion I had said that its 'ambiguous' though I don't agree to the ambiguous property because even americans play for FIFA where the F means Football ! But showing up a American football for places tagged with football is really suprising . How do we tag football ? I was suggested to use sport=soccer for football while sport=football for american football ! I really felt so alien :( Some interesting things I found were : Of the 45 national FIFA (Fédération Internationale de Football Association) affiliates in which English is an official or primary language, 43 use football in their organizations' official names (only Canada and United States use soccer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(word) As a worldwide project which name should we prefer ? Regards, Pavithran Where I live there are FOUR games played all called football. Only one really uses the feet on the ball Really we should use full names which are clear and not use football at all Soccer Rugby League Rugby Union Australian Rules American Football (extras welcome) I just noted that JOSM had a rugby preset which didn't actually cover what I needed - I needed rugby league for that particular sportsground ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What's the proper way to map multiple rail tracks in a street?
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.946466lon=-75.124744zoom=18layers=B 000FTF Cooper Street and Delaware Avenue are four-lane roads, with light rail/tram tracks in the outer lanes. Obviously one could simply apply railway=* to the highway, but that would not show the individual tracks. So I drew the tracks in their individual positions, but at high zooms it renders with the tracks completely outside the roadway. It would not be correct to draw two roadways, one in each direction (like on 4th Street to the east), since, unlike 4th Street, these are single carriageways. Is there any better way to do this? Also, is it proper to place railway=level_crossing at every node where the centerlines of railways and highways cross, even if the railway is simply entering or leaving the highway right-of-way (like on 4th Street to the southeast)? The main railway line in Rockhampton Qld, goes down the middle of one of the main streets. The way it has been mapped the railway line disappears when rendered by Mapnik. You could look at what has been done there for some further ideas. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants - Timber Merchant
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: Industrial supplies is a more generic term, which can include builder's merchants, or timber yards, or agricultural supplies, or a variety of other industries. So a tag shop=industrial_supplies can cover all of these, plus an appropriate sub-tag to specify what sort. I think that we are now advancing the discussion We would have to move a few agricultural suppliers to a new subgroup, but i see the benefits outweighing the disadvantages. Certainly I've put a few agricultural suppliers on the map, but can't recall how I tagged them. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Liz wrote: On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, John Smith wrote: I think we would be better classifying things based on approximate air traffic per day, the number of run ways, and so no, alternatively we could just tag these things individually: air_traffic=1000 runways=10 as i recall, Cloncurry actually has 7 runways, a legacy of being a major WW2 base. not sure how i obtain figures on air traffic movements I forgot that this list isn't the au list so Cloncurry is a small place with about 3000 people at most ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] route=fitness_trail
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, John Smith wrote: Some of the fitness equipment areas also have sign boards indicating how you can use them, playgrounds don't usually come with instructions. Found one at Glenelg in an unmarked park http://osm.org/go/uFw6q9Jp6- which is new with outdoor versions of modern gym equipment as well as more traditional children's play equipment http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=7529 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: if you see it in its historical context, it does look much more like a tower though: http://www.checkpoint-bravo.de/grafik/ausstellung.jpg It isn't a tower, but it functioned as a watchtower So is a tower in OSM going to be the form, or the function? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Orphanage
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, John Smith wrote: You'd use the length of stay, temporary or permanent to differentiate between them, although some could have facilities to handle both? no we have homes for children who are physically handicapped and live permanently in these facilities, about 5 or 6 kids per house. many of them will have a bed taken on a rotating basis by other kids who normally live at home but have time in the Group Home when parents need a break. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/6/2 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this, but John: shouldn't the node's role be tower, not transponder? i.e. the *relation* represents the transponder (hence type=transponder), but the *node* represents the *tower*, so should have role=tower. most cases that I know of are actually poles, not towers. cheers, Martin John's set are usually towers - I've seen a fair number of them in my travels. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Beauty parlour
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, pavithran wrote: Hi , I am looking for an appropriate tag for a place where women/girls go to get some facial/hair/eyebrows done . They are called beauty parlours . I could find something for hair dressers . But here I am looking for * Beauty fixes * sex=male/female *Type=normal/herbal There are many such places in the town I am mapping . Regards, Pavithran Pavithran, I think you will find that the usual type of asian shop - single owner, very small space, is quite different to the european shop, and vastly different from the supersized american one. Again the combinations of goods sold or services offered will be quite different, as often the single operator will specialise in a single service, eg the puncture-wallah You are going to need new tags. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] New Keys?
I photograph and then tag as many things as possible when out mapping. Today I was looking at a light industrial area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_industry and there are no suitable tags for factories and workshops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workshop Options Option 1 Industrial=factory/workshop factory=furniture/cars/aircraft_parts workshop=appliance_repair/joiner/carpenter name=BIg Multinational/Joe Bloggs Family Option 2 factory=furniture/cars/aircraft_parts workshop=appliance_repair/joiner/carpenter name=BIg Multinational/Joe Bloggs Family Option 3 factory=furniture/cars/aircraft_parts/appliance_repair/joiner/carpenter name=BIg Multinational/Joe Bloggs Family Option 4 open for suggestion here A large factory may consist of a number of smaller parts, some of which are workshops. Other areas may be assembly lines / bottling plants / first aid posts. A working scheme for tagging will have room for these ideas too. Please reply to this thread, especially if English is your second language, as you may have quite different ways of describing large and small manufacturing and repair facilities. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] New Keys?
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Are you talking about a landuse area, a building polygon, a site relation ? Pieren not landuse really because that wouldn't need a new Key, landuse=industrial would be a simple thing - a means to tag what i see day to day building wise so nodes or building polygons definitely site relations may be the way to go ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] New Keys?
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Option 1 Industrial=factory/workshop I don't like this key. To me, that reads this feature is an *industrial*, of type *factory*, or the *industrial* of this feature is a *factory*. Maybe try to fill in the blank: a factory is a kind of ? I would use that as the key. factory=furniture/cars/aircraft_parts I think you actually mean product=furniture/cars/aircraft_parts? Fine, I'm thinking aloud by writing here and however others see things will be helpful. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] New Keys?
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Do you suggest to add specific tags for factory components like assembly lines, soldering facilities, bottling plants, ...? This will become very extensive for all kind of factories that exist, but why not? Whatever is decided should be extensible to cover those things whether implemented or not. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] religion
On Sat, 29 May 2010, Cartinus wrote: By your reasoning we should not use religion=christian with denomination= either, but put whatever is in denomination= into religion=. No, a major belief system has subcategories. that's not a problem but I don't think that the items grouped as pagan are subcategories of a major belief system called 'pagan The other extreme is to classify the three Abrahamic religions as abrahamic, then christian, judaism, islam ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] religion
On Sat, 29 May 2010, Serge Wroclawski wrote: On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: No, a major belief system has subcategories. that's not a problem but I don't think that the items grouped as pagan are subcategories of a major belief system called 'pagan This argument not withstanding, the initial issue you brought up seems a non-issue, as the term Pagan is used in the sense that Cartinus illustrated, as shorthand for NeoPaganism, rather than as as a classification for any non-Jewish/Chritian/Islamic religion. So can we end this thread? - Serge If Neopaganism is what is meant, then why wasn't it used? Neopaganism as an overall term could meet Roy's standards of verifiability. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] wine roads in openstreetmap
On Sun, 23 May 2010, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I see that there is a feature suggestion for adding wine roads on the map. How should that be done? Is tourism=wine_road ok? Should roads be added into a new relation? I see only that Slovenians are talking about this, but still there is no suggestion on what tags to use: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_Trails_In_Slovenia#Tourism Does anybody tag wine roads? How? Thank you. Not sure that my interpretation is correct. I think that you have routes through wine growing / making areas which take tourists to the wineries. This is not the only purpose of the physical roads. If so, then a relation would be a sensible suggestion I think we have used relation for Tourist Route in Australia. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Green areas that are not parks (revisited)
On Sat, 15 May 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: what if someone decides not to cut his grass? It would IMHO still be a garden. My grass is rarely cut (climatic reasons) and we have left the main grassed area to become /meadow/. It's not a garden now in any English term, and is a /yard/. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Green areas that are not parks (revisited)
On Sat, 15 May 2010, Chris Hill wrote: You have animals grazing? Or perhaps you cut it for hay or silage? If not then it's just an unkempt garden, just letting the grass grow doesn't make it a meadow, except perhaps in pretentious gardening programmes :) I guess you assumed I lived in a city area. I don't. So if you leave your garden alone it reverts to meadow. I am no longer supporting a plant monoculture but a variety of plants which vary with the seasons. 10 years of drought give a low likelihood of feeding any animal from what is grown there. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Green areas that are not parks (revisited)
On Sat, 15 May 2010, Chris Hill wrote: No I didn't assume anything, except that what you have is land attached to a house. That is a garden. Green or not, maintained or not. Decked, paved or grassed, cultivated or not. A meadow is agricultural land. still wrong, the area under discussion was a vineyard, separated from the house garden by a physical barrier ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Scales / weigh stations
On Fri, 7 May 2010, John Smith wrote: On 7 May 2010 15:54, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: Periodically along US highways, there are giant scales for trucks to get a weight certificate to comply with various laws. How should these be tagged? How about: highway=motorway_link for the ramps linking to the motorway highway=scale for the scale node/area They're called weigh bridges here... scale might be a bit ambiguous... I've probably mapped some as weighbridge already. Could someone use one of those Tag counter tools to look to see what has been used? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] More tagging questions
On Sat, 8 May 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: barrier=bus_trap it's listed on the Key:barrier page, but without any description. Though I assume its for something like a bus trap, as described on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_trap they could be sump_buster - depends what the barrier actually looks like ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging for discount stores in US
On Thu, 6 May 2010, Richard Welty wrote: On 5/6/10 9:15 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: This leads to a new proposal: discount=yes to discriminate discounters. Could be used in addition for supermarkets, department stores and maybe others. usable with any shop= where appropriate? i can see that. richard Even discount=yes is subjective what is sold here in this sort of shop is often cheap junk, and not a bargain Every electrical and white goods store in Au discounts because the recommended prices are inflated initially. It all looks good in the brochure. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging for discount stores in US
On Fri, 7 May 2010, John Smith wrote: On 7 May 2010 07:03, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: well, yes, but within the US at least, i think there's broad agreement that one tier of department store (walmart, kmart, target) is discount with respect to another (macys, pennys, nordstrom, etc.) The same thing is true of Australia... Although I still haven't figured out the relationship between kmart in Australia and kmart in the US, but they're similar... but I'd consider kmart a discount store compared to myre's, david jones, grace brothers, etc... nothing is actually cheaper in target or kmart Australia when you compare exact items eg branded toys like Lego it's all illusion ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] A shop selling fish and seafood
On Wed, 5 May 2010, Jonathan Bennett wrote: To be consistent, your example above should really be: what is it... a shop what sort of shop... food shop... what sort of food... ready cooked food or food that still needs cooking/preparing ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-newbies] compass rose or wind rose?
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010, Alan Mintz wrote: At 2010-04-28 12:40, Xan wrote: How can i tag compass rose, like that http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:RosaDeLosVientosTorreDeHercules.jpg or wind rose? I like man_made=compass_rose . Based on the wikipedia article, it seems the more current term. -- Compass Rose and Wind Rose are not synonyms. The Compass Rose is drawn on the map for the artistic representation of North A Wind Rose is a data representation showing you prevailing winds. http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/wind/wind_rose.shtml I'm not subscribed to newbies, could someone copy this to there? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging buildings
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010, Alexander Sidorov wrote: Hello! I am writing an application that queries OSM buildings. Please tell me what is the common way of tagging buildings. Do they usually have names (I'm talking about usual buildings, not places of interest)? What does usually name contain: addr:housenumber, addr:housename, etc. or some combination? Regards, Alexander I think the answers will vary from different countries. Very few buildings in my area have been marked at all, nodes only, and no address features given. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Oyster beds
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote: Has anyone else tagged oyster beds? The only thing close on the wiki I can find is proposed reef: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/reef Is this the most suitable scheme? oyster beds suggests aquaculture aquaculture needs a whole set of tags (LINZ import needs it too) some is land based and some water based landuse=aquaculture wateruse=aquaculture aquaculture=oysters/salmon/trout/murray_cod/marron/barramundi etc reef suggests natural, and oyster beds suggest man_made so that could lead to another tagging schema instead ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Oyster beds
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote: reef suggests natural, and oyster beds suggest man_made Well that's wrong, since they keep sinking ships to make dive reefs. and then they are called artificial reefs eg http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/22/2826761.htm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Oyster beds
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote: On 23 April 2010 21:54, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: and then they are called artificial reefs eg http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/22/2826761.htm I find it some what amusing that someone documented natural=reef and then documented natural=yes/no, I'm not quite sure how that would work... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/reef didn't you tell me two mails back that reefs are not all natural? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] playground tag proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, antony.king wrote: On 20 April 2010 09:27, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 April 2010 18:18, antony.king antony.k...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I'd like to get voting underway this weekend if possible, depending of course on what issues are raised. Have you used this tagging scheme much to date? Did you notice any issues? I've been using it on my local playgrounds in kemsley, and minophos has been using it on some in the Leighton Buzzard area and so far, the only issue we've met is that we've had to add a few more equipment types. I've also written an export tool so that you can view the playgrounds on a UK map with some summary data; it's a bit ropey at the moment (running on a Lex Light in my son's room!) but if you look here: http://ant.homelinux.net/maps with username map, password mrmappy you'll see a map of them; the blue ones are done according to the new schema. If you don't see the icons, try again later; I'm hacking at it right now. too difficult to find the bit we should zoom into Anthony, so how about a screenshot? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] playground tag proposal
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, antony.king wrote: Hi all, re http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Playground_Equipment I'd like to get this proposal finalized fairly soon as it has been open for a month now. There has been a lot of useful discussion already which I have taken on board and put into the main page. Could I ask you all to take one more look at it; if there are any points that would stop you voting for it in its current form them please suggest improvements on the discussion page or on the mailing list. I'd like to get voting underway this weekend if possible, depending of course on what issues are raised. Many thanks for your help with this so far! Antony. the only one in my area has a liberty swing which takes an entire wheelchair and user http://www.devinelibertyswing.com/ so it needs adding to the list if you need a CC photo I'll have to arrange to photograph it ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Beaches
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: The only alternative I see is landuse=beach, which I think would be ok, if there were a clear distinction between this and natural=beach. For a beach created by dumping a bunch of sand in the middle of a city, to me, that's pretty clearly landuse=beach. Here is an exact example in Brisbane http://osm.org/go/ueD2RxDc1-- That one has been tagged natural=beach I guess we could dual tag some things until renderers were altered to cope. But in Australia sand, is frequently dumped on beaches bordering the sea, to top up the sand for the tourists. At what point would that change from natural=beach to landuse=beach? I wouldn't worry about that, the tourists don't. +1 for landuse=beach, providing that includes beach below high tide mark, and hoping that no person thinks that should be seause=beach ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Beaches
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote: From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beach Beach areas should always meet with a natural=coastline way. Do not use this tag for patches of sand/gravel which are not by a coastline. Note that the natural=coastline should ideally be positioned at the average high tide line, which may mean the beach is quite small or not mapped at all in fact. By this logic wouldn't the beach cover from the average high tide line to the average low tide line? Which brings up the next issue, how to determine the average high and low tide lines from aerial imagery... Interesting that the wiki writer said that all beaches were on a coastline. Rivers here have beaches, and they have names like Town Beach (Tocumwal) Wagga Beach (Wagga Wagga). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] source:geolocation?
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Pick which ever has the most widespread use and document it. Hmm now that I check again, [1] lists a few hundred uses of source:position, but only 2 uses of source:location. Better go with source:position, then. [1] http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Germany/En/tags.html Can't be up to date. Every servo that I've checked and moved has source:location=survey and there would be a stack of those ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Narrow width
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: If a user is bad at estimating widths I suggest that he measures the exact width. Still narrow is not a good solution to the problem as many posters have already written above. I reckon 3 paces would be more helpful than narrow Australia doesn't have nice the width in metres on a sign for narrow bits. We get a road narrows sign only. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Narrow width
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, John Smith wrote: On 22 February 2010 18:54, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I reckon 3 paces would be more helpful than narrow Paces of a short or tall person? :) well they could add in the notes that they are 170cm tall and walking on crutches if they like ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Cycleway conditions
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Kim Slotte kim.slo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Since the voting is a bit half-way I request your attention to get it finalized: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Cycleway_condition There seem to be 9 or 10 oppose votes, and no approve votes. There is nothing half-way about this. Reject. As I have decided not to get involved in wiki-votes I couldn't add my oppose view. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - shop=estate_agent
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, specimail-for...@yahoo.fr wrote: Hi everyone ! There is a (not by me) proposed feature shop=estate_agent: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Estate_Agent It is already used, as stated on wiki page. Thank you for voting. Djam Devil's Advocate here this should be office - you can't walk into this 'shop' and purchase anything immediately to walk out the door with it or have it delivered all the goods on sale are elsewhere In truth I probably have contributed some shop=real_estate to the database. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Narrow width
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, John Smith wrote: If I form an opinion stating 2m is narrow and someone forms an opinion stating 4m is narrow how is that helpful in the least? Narrow on foot or narrow in a truck imply different widths. So I'm in favour of estimating a width for this purpose, and not narrow. And if my English was poor, it would be a lot easier to understand putting in a number of metres than picking narrow, wide, average, too-bloody-small etc ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ref tags and reference routes
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Richard Welty wrote: so should a reference route designation that isn't on a sign go in a ref tag or not? the wiki doesn't discuss this. if ref shouldn't have this, perhaps a variant on ref is needed? Those sort of 'internal reference numbers' are used heavily in New South Wales. They aren't easy to work out and don't help with navigation. They would need a non-rendering tag - no use a router trying to send me down 'MR380' ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What do we map
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: We map everything we can. And POIs btw is one big reason for lot of people to map. Originally I didn't realise that there was no special reason for which shops had tagged and which didn't, so I only 'collected' POIs which had tags already. Now I walk down a street a photograph each shop front in turn and put each one in the database. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, David Earl wrote: I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. David In Au McDonalds call themselves Family Restaurants and I call them Fast Food. The subjective work of the surveyor may be far more objective than the subjective work of the owner. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What's a power=station?
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ulf Lamping wrote: But till today, no one came up with a good idea for such a process, willing to spend the effort to implement it and - this is probably the critical point - could convince a wide majority of mappers that following his idea/process is a good thing. and some sort of discussion on how we acknowledge error and can move forward is needed currently the general scheme would be to design a new set of tagging which does not reuse the same tags and deprecate the tags which are decided to be in error so that over time the happy editors can retag features with new ones from better set ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What's a power=station?
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010, Ulf Lamping wrote: Am 18.01.2010 04:47, schrieb Alan Mintz: At 2010-01-17 19:33, Steve Bennett wrote: According to the wiki map features table, a power=station is A tag for electricity stations. Wires from power lines come in or go out here. Two questions: 1) Does everyone use it this way? Without having looked at the table, I would have guessed that a power=station was a power plant (ie, a coal, or gas or whatever plant that generates power), whereas that appears to be a power=generator. 2) What is a power station exactly? I think I know the type of thing it's referring to (although I have, perhaps mistakenly, called these sub stations in the past). What does it do? Does it simply convert high voltage down to lower, consumer-level voltage? This is another one of those areas where OSM terminology differs from that used in the US, or maybe is just plain wrong. The utility companies that own the typical ~1 acre step-down/switching complex, fed by high-voltage lines (100 kV), do indeed call them sub-stations. I have adhered to the wiki, though, in tagging them as power=station. I use substation for the occasional, smaller, usually single-user complex with just a few transformers, fed by lower voltage lines (usually 12-60 kV in the US I think). Unless people have largely ignored the wiki in practice, I'd suggest leaving it as is, in lieu of having to globally analyze and fix existing tags. The wiki has a definition of the tag and a photo of what it's meant. It's not a good idea to trying to globally fix stuff. These tags are in wide usage, so I'll just change the Wiki means: I'll change the meaning of tags that a lot of others before intended differently. But people will continue to use the tag the old way. In the end this means you can't distuinguish if the former or latter meaning of the tag is used for a specific entry in the database. You'll just burn the tag! This is a very bad, bad idea - even if the wording might be slightly wrong. Remember there are 2 active mappers out there having a specific idea about that tag in their head, that's a furphy ( http://bit.ly/7fbGMz ) none of know how many mappers are using the tag at all so how about we figures from Tagwatch ? there's also software that's using the definitions as in the wiki already. Regards, ULFL Redoing the tagging, and leaving the disputed tag out of the new scheme is a way to go forward. I don't have Randy's qualifications, but to me a power station means potential energy in and electrical energy (plus waste heat) out. The area on the ground containing transformers that step down from high voltages to medium voltages is a substation So we can ignore power=station and have electricity generation plants, with subkeys for oil, gas, coal, nuclear, wind, methane, whatever have substations and have transformers Liz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What's a power=station?
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ulf Lamping wrote: d) I don't think it's a good idea to change a tag description two years after it was documented, because the wording is slightly wrong for some parts of the english speaking world. Because doing so is an annoyance for anyone involved and the wording will always be slightly wrong for someone. Not to mention that a lot of people won't notice/ignore any changes here, as these definitions are old enough in OSM terms. My approach: Stick to the wiki definitions even if you don't like it and go on mapping :-) We need to be able to say a mistake has been made, these tags need revision and do something about mistakes. If we don't have a process for dealing with errors in tag choice and translation we will have a massive pile of junk data (and then no-one will care about the licence at all). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Easy question: _link tags for U turn/cut throughs?
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: Yeah actually you're probably right - even emergency services probably can't just drive through private land to get to an emergency. In NSW, the fire services can do as they please in those circumstances. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: The asymmetry arises from the requirements of the modes of transport: anything that a bike can ride on, a pedestrian can walk on - but not vice versa. except for the poor germans, who must not walk on a cycleway ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, Alex Mauer wrote: Your criteria for a “well-suited” cycle way are inapplicable to many cycleways. One big example is mountain bike trails, which fail nearly all of them: good surface, smoothness, gentle curves, signs giving priority to bicycles, and possibly navigability. Yet they are cycleways nonetheless. I realize that you said that a cycleway wouldn’t need to meet all of the criteria, but this is a pretty bad mismatch. I don't see a mountain bike track as equivalent to a cycleway. I would specifically exclude a MTB track from cycleway ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Should 'highway=incline[_steep]' be discouraged?
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Roy Wallace wrote: Also, incline=* is still mathematically valid for nodes to indicate the instantaneous incline at that point, so I don't see a problem with that. I might be old, I might have gone to school in the Dark Ages, but a point cannot have an incline. A spatial point describes a specific object within a given space that consists of neither volume area or length, nor any other higher dimensional analogue. Thus a point is a zero dimensional object. Oh, the writer of Wikipedia point geometry agrees with me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(geometry) A way can have an incline, but it needs a three dimensional description. Please remove from the wiki all the efforts of the failed_mathematics group at trying to describe a point with an incline, because it is rubbish. Liz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Should 'highway=incline[_steep]' be discouraged?
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009, Roy Wallace wrote: An incline is more or less a gradient. From Wikipedia: The gradient of H at a point is a vector pointing in the direction of the steepest slope or grade at that point. A point can have a gradient, and thus an incline. you'd better read better than that the vector has a gradient (in fact it is compulsory) the point can not and then read Frederick's reply concerning any quotes from Wikipedia I'm not part of the OSM Debating society, so I won't be writing any more on this. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledgeof the law?
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, Richard Mann wrote: highway=cycleway only used for well-engineered public/permanant cycle tracks (ie could you safely do 20kph on it) I'm hoping to find some better engineering definitions for this, but this is my preferred general concept for 'cycleway' ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Roy Wallace wrote: So here's my (proposed) scheme: highway=path (deprecate footway and cycleway!!) Any support for path=foot path=cycle path=horse path being distinct from highway (more work needed on this) highway for motorised vehicles who may (?!) share path not for the fourwheeled vehicles at all - too narrow or prohibited or unrealistic as it contains a flight of steps i'm looking at cycleway as being 'designed for cycle use' with regard to width, surface, gradient subgroups (the australian) exclusive, shared and separated all of which would be designated with a bicycle sign *designed and designated to qualify for cycleway* other ways which are used by cyclists and pedestrians path=foot bicycle=yes ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Richard Mann wrote: There's an awful lot of cycleways already, so your definition has to recognise that. I assume that something which is marked as a cycleway really is one The argument in Europe is whether cycleways are by default shared (UK / Dutch norm), or by default single-use (the German position). I have found today that the Australian position is default single-use but it is customary to sign the cycleway according to its legal use. Singleuse cycleways in Australia are however in a minority - almost all are shared or separated paths. There's no real argument over the physical (minimal obstructions for road bikes / no cars), though there is argument over what should be done about paths that are nearly but not quite. The design criteria I found suggested that there are marked differences with maximum gradient, width and forward visibility. The pdf to follow in a separate mail to beat the 40Kb limit is courtesy of Tweed Shire Council, minimum design standards from the Austroads guidelines Regardless of what the wiki says, 99% of the use of path is for rough paths (in forests and fields). The shared use stuff was invented by the Germans for their single-use model, and isn't widely used for that, even by them. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Roy Wallace wrote: the cycleway tag means that you can cycle along without having to get off and port your bicycle over a fence But Liz, this definition isn't on the wiki. Have you documented your definition *somewhere*? How am I supposed to know that you mean this when you use highway=cycleway? If you mean to say that you think the cycleway tag SHOULD mean ..., then that is another issue altogether. i don't rush into editing in the wiki so i haven't documented this its a practical definition if i was going to put it on the wiki I'd insist it was a road or race bike that i could ride along there without dismount - no bunnyhopping kerbs or similar tricks ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: So, what's your definition of cycleway? Do you mean the tag, or the reality? If the reality, then I could describe several classes of bike path and multiuse path and pedestrian path. Just to get some further ideas I'm reading the Australian Road Rules. http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/AustralianRoadRulesFebruary2008.pdf there are 350 pages so i could be a while scanning through them ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Coastlines and structures
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: Yep. In river water there is less than 500 ppm of dissolved salts. So, rent a boat, take water samples at determined positions and measure the conductivity. (Just kidding... :-) ) I just had to look this up converted 500ppm to EC units (microSiemens per cubic metre) and got 892 then looked at salinity tables for Australian Rivers. http://www.waterinfo.nsw.gov.au/wq/murrumbidgee.shtml http://riverinfo.mdba.gov.au/flow-salinity/flowsal-forecast.pdf Found a couple of spots with 2000km to go to the sea with EC levels 900 Yass River upstream Burrinjuck Dam http://osm.org/go/uNaxPLa-- Jugiong Creek at Jugiong http://osm.org/go/uNY%40w7m- Just as well you were only kidding, because this method isn't going to work worldwide. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Implied oneway tag for highway=*_link, wiki edits
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009, Paul Johnson wrote: I should probably point out that not all roundabouts are one-way. That's a traffic circle I have researched this point.. Liz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Are tunnels only below ground? (Was
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, Anthony wrote: And I don't want dotted lines when these passages are rendered - because if I look at that I'm going to expect something that goes underground, dotted lines on an Australian map would make me expect that the way was unsurfaced ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [talk-au] How to tag a non-existent road
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Sam Vekemans wrote: eye... i, i ie :0) But of course the landuse us 'unknown' by default. .. so what needs to be done is to go around and find out what the actual landuse is. ... of course there are voids there are voids all over the map of black space. :) Sam, just like Canada, parts of Australia are like a huge void, short of mappers. So I drew in roads for a town I lived in 25 years ago, now at least 2000km from home. I can't speculate about land use except I removed the first landuse=residential polygon because it got in my way and was actually quite inaccurate, having been guessed from ancient satellite photos. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag house numbers based on decametres?
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Cartinus wrote: The only problem then is how to tag the start/end of a numbering section, based on that document major roads are broken up into sections of 100km. Relation: node for start, node for end, list of ways to connect from start to end It's probably less work to tag the individual addresses than doing that. Not likely - easier to find the start and end - can do that by pestering the Council which is much easier than trying to survey for street numbers. We haven't ground surveyed these roads yet in many cases but found an end a road name and traced from Landsat ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag house numbers based on decametres?
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Peter Childs wrote: 100km is the distance from hmm Washington to Baltimore or London to Oxford (give or take) if your going to only survey a few points in that distance, Each main road in my area will be easily 70 to 140km in length eg Hay to Balranald is 129km. The population density is certainly not requiring a point every 100m to determine the rural road number, but as it is a mathematical function, it can be defined and used for a routing engine. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
