Re: [Tagging] Driving side
2014-03-23 2:37 GMT+01:00 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: Left-hand-driver cars are sometimes used in right-hand-drive countries, and vice versa. So, changing cars at a national border where the driving conventions differ is not mandatory in all cases. In fact, I have not heard of any cases where it is mandatory. In fact just this week there was a related case at the Court of Justice of the European Union. Some countries did not allow to register cars with the steering wheel on the right-hand side. The court decided that the countries must allow registration ( http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2014-03/cp140037en.pdf ). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Related: Antarctic territories
Am 23.12.2013 11:56, schrieb Jonathan: I am not qualified to answer any of these questions as I've never got involved in editing boundaries in OSM however it does raise an interesting wider question, which is, how do we map all territories that are claimed by one country or another but not internationally recognised? An example is the area of Abyei [1] which is disputed between Sudan and South Sudan. This is tagged to belong to both countries. So the southern border is part of the relation for Sudan and the northern one for South Sudan. The standard rendering creates national borders around it [2]. This is not perfect but probably good enough. Do we map what is on the ground, which seems to be the common argument, or do we map what is widely recognised as the official situation? Personally I think tat following the on-the-ground rule in case of a dispute we should map the de-facto border. But I know that this also raises problems. For example I remember a posting some time ago about this being problematic in India. Michael (user Ohr) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyei [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/9.7267/28.4409 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Related: Antarctic territories
First of all I think there is no really perfect solution to the problem. To me this is inherent to the dispute as different parties have a different view of what's right and wrong. So I think this conflict will show up in the data anyway. 2013/12/23 Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com Today, from a practical perspective, a letter to anyone in Abyei would probably be addressed to Sudan, a phone call would dial Sudan's area code, a visitor would go through Sudanese immigration. So maybe it's in Sudan. I agree. Maybe it's part of both countries then. In that case, tools like Nominatim should reflect that - but Nominatim currently thinks that Abyei is in South Sudan (possibly making some non-technical Sudanese users a bit uneasy). Ok, but I am personally quite hesitant to tag things in a way so Nominatim gets correct results. After some checking with places in Israel and the Palestinian territories I think Nominatim might not be the best benchmark to use. Overlapping administrative borders should then be a basic assumption of every app - and they're not, since they almost always are administrative subdivisions. An overlapping administrative border of equal admin_level would make more sense if both parties were friendly to each other and collaborating within the area. But then I think nobody would describe these as disputed territories. I do not consider adding the region to both countries to be a great solution myself. It's just an pragmatic approach to get things covered 'good enough'. Ideally the disputed borders were marked as disputed and rendered accordingly e.g. dashed instead of solid. Or event the disputed area could even be hatched or so. But is the area faring independently? No, so we represent the claim conflict using the claimed role in each country's defining relation. If we add 'controlled' or 'dejure' and 'defacto' this sounds good to me: So the northern border of Abyei should be 'dejure' in Sudan and the southern border 'defacto'. The South Sudan should have things just the other way (if I got the legal situation right). Basically there is a section where the border of both countries is not really well defined and for me the data should reflect this. Extending that to Antarctica, one may ask: are the overlapping territories claimed by Argentina, Chile and UK part of any of these? I agree that for Antarctica my strategy of being part of both definetly does not work. This is different and probably needs special treatment. When working on the border beween Sudan and South Sudan I spent some time looking into disputed borders. Some key observations for me were that (1) there are more than one would expect and (2) there currently is no established method of handling this in OSM. So I am happy if we find a better solution but I guess this easily requires changes to some other tools like the rendering or perhaps Nominatim. But this shouldn't keep us from looking into it. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping the Black Forest
2013/10/9 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com this is a topic discussed several times in precedence, you can find discussions here and also on talk-de (your email suggests you understand German). Another starting point could be the following (abandoned) proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Region and its discussion page. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping the Black Forest
Am 09.10.2013 16:32, schrieb Pieren: On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Michael Krämer ohr...@gmail.com wrote: Another starting point could be the following (abandoned) proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Region and its discussion page. Bad idea. Replace region by boundary or multipolygon and you get it. Not really a good proposal trying to reinvent the wheel with different words. Just for clarification: I suggested the wiki page as a starting point to look into past discussions around this topic. I fully agree that this proposal is abandoned for good reason. Regarding the idea itself I agree with Martin: I do not think something large scale and fuzzy like the Black Forest should be mapped in the database at all. If you think about this a bit longer it would totally be reasonable to create a giant multipolygon for an ocean or a continent - to me that's no good idea. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapping the Black Forest
Am 09.10.2013 19:13, schrieb Pieren: I agree with you but they are already in the database, e.g. the Alps: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2698607 In fact that's a pretty good example for me: I think the line is at least off by a few kilometers near the western part of the German-Austrian border ;-) I noticed that there are also entries for the continents but just single nodes. That's probably a more pragmatic approach to make things searchable in Nominatim. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Hi Murry, thanks, but there's no need to apologize. I am aware that I've made some provocative statements myself. So I probably have to apologize, too. Basically I think we're on the same page: To my understanding we agree that there's a need to differentiate between the different kinds of baked goods. So the problem is how to classify and name these. But as pretty often I guess that's where trouble starts. To answer your question: A shop selling cake but not bread is called Konditorei in German. I am currently not really aware of any shop selling only cookies. I remember a place in France that sold Bagels but mainly as a take away food and that's tagged as amenity=cafe (node #2095562597). If I look at our two mails I see a clear contradiction: To me the primary product of a bakery is bread while for you it's mainly the other non-bread kinds. So I don't see any easy resolution for that. We both have good arguments for our own point of view and both have objections against the other. Both of us see problems of usability for users with the other schema as it might not match expectations. I think that's what's called a tie... A solution might be to do some localization of the tagging. This is probably not a great idea but it has been done before, e.g. for interpretation of highways or administrative boundaries. This would allow the different cultures to tag according to their expectations. Problems would arise for users in the other culture or any global acitivity but I would expect these are the less-frequent applications. But overall I see this only as a kind of workaround. But basically that's how most of OSM works for me: Just let people map as they understand things and don't try to direct things too heavily. A completely unrelated example might be ornithology: In English there's a difference between swallows and martins while in German both are considered Schwalben. The same applies for dove and pigeon where we have only Taube. The solution in that filed is the use of a completely separate classification in Latin. But this also has the effect that this classification is more or less impractical for daily life and limited to the specialists. That's not the way I would like OSM developing in future. Finally I would agree that anybody else is happily welcome to join the discussion! Michael 2013/6/5 Murry McEntire murry.mcent...@gmail.com First an apology to Michael for what follows. I know you are allowing for change by addition of more shop=* tags, but the tailored statement makes me want to get on my soapbox. I know you are not arguing for the status quo. I would argue that tagging should also be tailored towards being useful for and not antagonizing to the local users and taggers of the general regions on the map. I would like for OSM to become a success in the U.S., or at least considered a viable alternative to the other major map systems; but if the average American finds it misleading, or can not find what they are looking for, they will not use it. In OSM's current state, I can not recommend it to non-technical family, friends, or acquaintances because it is too often wrong, or does not contain sufficient information for them to find what they seek. On the other hand, OSM should not be balkanized. So, I would never think of denying a local Mexican bakery the tag of shop=bakery, or shop=bakery; bakery_good=bread; or shop=bread (depending on what implementation is used) even though they do not carry bread as I usually think of it or (I believe) the average European understands it. An aside, I'm a fan of eating wheat tortillas like I would loaf bread, but unfortunately have to pass on the corn ones because of an allergy. It would be nice if the OSM tagging system were implemented such that what is of importance in one area, encourages taggers in another area, where they may have less importance, to use them in a similar way as opposed to using them in contrary ways or not tagging because such tags have a different meaning. If the latter is happening frequently, it is likely a sign of poor design and choice of tags, or where language differences exist, a poor matching of word translations. Importance and usefulness for one group is not a guide to good design if it is a poor implementation for (many) others. I would also think from the European viewpoint, or from anyone valuing good bread, having a map when visiting the U.S. that allows them to directly find that shop that specializes in artisan bread instead of having less than one chance in 20 would be a good thing. But if we keep the status quo, they will find most U.S. bakeries are cake shops or cookie shops or pastry shops or some combination that excludes bread. It is a given under the status quo, that mappers in the U.S. (hopefully only in U.S. territory) will tag bread, cake, cookie, pastry, pie, and other bakery goods shops shop=bakery. That U.S. users will feel frustrated because they
Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery
Hi Murry, being yet another German I'm afraid I still don't buy into the proposal. I guess this has a lot to do with both cultural and language differences. Also some background to start with. For many people in at least continental Europe bread is a basic food and a key component of the daily diet. For example for me bread is the key ingredient for two meals of the day. For this reason bread is something pretty relevant in daily life and it's not only about having some kind of bread but also the type and freshness of bread. Recently I've been travelling in France. Every morning one of the first things has been to get some fresh bread. For this I used OSM and looked for the next artisan bakery. A supermarket would also sell bread but that would have been second choice only. There were also many shops selling various treats but no the basic bread we were looking for. So to me this basic distinction is really important. From my point of view another aspect is the occurence of bakeries. Both in Germany and in France I expect to find a bakery more or less in every village of reasonable size. This is not always a place where bread is baked on the premises but at least in the morning there's a choice of various types of bread etc. My personal experience from travelling in the US, the UK and Canada is rather different. To get bread there I would rather go to a supermarket. To me a bakery in these countries is less of a everyday shop but more special. To me this is also reflected by the number of bakeries you've given for Colorado. Here a more or less randomly picked query in Strasbourg, France: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/iv. This gives around 50 bakeries in an area of about 30 square kilometers. I would claim from this that the relevance of bakeries is significantly different between e.g. the US and Germany. As a conclusion I would argue that the tagging should be mainly tailored towards the regions where bakeries are acutally found more often. Of course the tagging must be applicable globally. But I am still in favour if having the distiction between bakery, pastry and confectionery on the top-level with shop=... Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Dispute concerning shrimp pond dikes
Hi Doug, Am 19.01.2013 16:44 schrieb doug brown dougc...@hotmail.com: The tags I used on these features are as follows: access = private embankment = yes highway = unclassified man_made = dike name = shrimp pond dike My reasoning being that all of the dikes have, at a minimum, a footpath on top of them, with most having a motor vehicle accessible road. While they are all private roads, most of them are open to public access and I frequently ride my bicycle on them. To me this sounds more like highway=track or highway=service - mainly depending how similar it is to a 'real road'. Also I would't use the name-tag here as this is not really a name but more of an description. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] place=neighbourhood
Hi, 2012/12/17 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com Have I, or rather JOSM, done anything wrong? I don't think so, I think the problem is on OSMI's side. place=neighbourhood is a somewhat recent addition so it might not be in OSMI yet. How can I improve ourselves and do better? It looks like the place to suggest improvements to OSMI is in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Inspector Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] name of river/admin area
Hi, Am 04.09.2012 03:22 schrieb André Pirard a_pir...@hotmail.com: I think that names should be spelled the way people speak them so that the map reader can speak them too. le Wachiboux (masculine) but la Semois and la Meuse (feminine). Well, this might depend on the local language. In German it's the same that rivers are either male or female (der Rhein/die Donau). But I would definetly not include this information in the name. In a map it should only read the name of the river itself. BTW, regarding the original question whether to include river: I couldn't think of an example in German where this would apply. So I think I would tend not to include it globally. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Potale
Hello, 2012/8/28 André Pirard a_pir...@hotmail.com ** On 2012-08-26 11:41, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote : 2012/8/26 Michael Krämer ohr...@gmail.com ohr...@gmail.com: How about historic=wayside_shrine? Unfortunately my French is rather limited so I basically could only look at the pictures in the Wikipedia. But this looked quite a bit like these wayside shrines. http://translate.google.be/translate?u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potalelangpair=auto|en More generally, visit this pagehttp://translate.google.com/translate_buttonsand follow the instructions to translate any page or text selection. And, great, it follows links!!! Sure, but the automatic translation only gives you the rough content but mostly misses the finer details. Everyone agreeing with my link to Wikipedia's *potale* in the OSM definition of wayside_shrine? Well, given the description I would rather link to http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayside_shrine instead. In fact most surprisingly there's also http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildstock. So after some more digging into the finer details I think wayside shrine is probably not exactly the same as potale - at least not in German: A wayside shrine is something more or less standing freely [1] while a potale could also be a niche in another building. But having said so, I find would find it perfectly reasonable to use historic=wayside_shrine for both. If this is accepted I just would want to expand the description in the wiki accordingly to cover both. Michael [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Sankt-georgen-kaernten.jpg/611px-Sankt-georgen-kaernten.jpg [2] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Potale%2C_quai_aux_foins_Bxl.JPG/389px-Potale%2C_quai_aux_foins_Bxl.JPG ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging Blue flags (Foundation for Environmental Education's Blue flag criteria for beaches and marinas)
Hello, 2012/6/26 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com I suggest a fee_blue_flag=yes tag which should be used in combination with leisure=beach_resort or leisure=marina. This could be useful for easy searching of well equipped, maintained and clean beaches and marinas for tourists. And it's a nice project for mappers on vacation :) I am a bit confused by 'fee_' in the tag. From my experience there is no direct connection between a 'blue_flag' and any fee. By the way, at least in Germany it's actually provided for beaches or marinas, not communites. So at least here the proposed tagging would perfectly make sense. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] proposing a page on the wiki: tag names do not always correspond to their definitions
Hi, Am 18.05.2012 07:30, schrieb Alan Mintz: The idea, taken in a vacuum without knowledge of personalities, seems correct. There are many more examples, like highway=* things that are not highways. I don't think we need a page for it, but it should be somewhere in beginners documentation that the key and any non-name values may not be exact matches (or maybe even wrong) in your local usage and language. Generally I think there are a lot of false friends in tagging. For obvious reasons this is very likely more pronounced for non-native or non-Britsh users. Other examples at least for the Germans would be village_green, green-, or brownfield... But on the other hand I am not sure if a dedicated page would really solve the underlying problem. I would prefer to add the information to the description pages themselves, as this is where people look for information on tags. So I would rather suggest to use some template for this to show common misunderstandings or misconceptions. Perhaps we could also add a category so it wouldn't be either-or but as-well-as. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Block names (vs street names) in Brasilia
Am 24. April 2012 00:56 schrieb Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com: - Any previous discussions or existing practices I should be reading up on? Brasilia is not the only place where block names are used instead of street names. To my knowledge, other examples are some parts of Sofia/Bulgaria (I see street names here [5]) and Japan (not sure where to look). The city center of Mannheim in Germany also uses blocks although there are some named streets (example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.487123lon=8.464508zoom=18layers=M). Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag
Am 23. April 2012 13:05 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com : Am 22. April 2012 16:43 schrieb Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com : But saloon cars are no longer the 'standard' car, in the uk they've more or less been replaced by hatchbacks 4x4's. If we look at best selling cars in the UK (and I assume Europe) we have to assume car widths (with mirrors) are now just over 2m, which I'd round up to 2.1m. -1, fortunately this isn't true and cars are usually not larger then 1.8 metres, actually the best selling cars are usually smaller than that. E.g. have a look here (I didn't check it extensively, but I guess it is true): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DeLarge/Top_10_best_selling_cars_in_Britain Well, I think quite a number of those are more than 2 m wide. I also didn't check extensively, but I am quite sure that the widths given in Wikipedia are usually *without* mirrors. Not to long ago there has been some amount of news coverage in Germany about cars being wider than 2 m including mirrors and for this reason not being allowed on the fast lane in many highway construction zones. A famous example is the current Golf with approx. 2.05 m. So I would also assume car widths above 2 m as a rule of thumb. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] When should a name:* translation be used?
Hello, 2012/1/30 LM_1 flukas.robot+...@gmail.com: Some cities/towns (especially those that are important for a long time) have different names in different languages (here in Europe almost every major and many minor towns). If there is such a name, it should be added. Definetly - otherwise we would only have Praha or München (to name just two) which might not always be clear for an international user. If I browse through map of China, I would like to see Peking (Czech name), I can live with Beijing, but 北京 is not helpful at all. I understand that this is the convention for OSM. But I fully agree that it makes it difficult to find something in China if you are not familiar with Chinese. And I guess the same applies in reverse for people less familiar with latin characters. Of course this name should be generally used by users of the language, not just translation. Sure, although quite a number of these names might only origin from local knowledge, peferably of native speakers. So the chinese name for Praha should rather come from a Chinese. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Level and type of school (ISCED, public/private/charter)
Am 21.01.2012 00:53 schrieb Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com: In my region you could further mark if the private school is religious or not and the type of religion, but I haven't actually done any tagging like that. Recently there has been a discussion on the German list on how to tag religious schools. More specifically it started with the question whether to use the religion-key on schools or not. There we quickly came across the question of Montessori of Waldorf schools. But there hasn't been any consensus for a particular tagging scheme in the end. So I'm also in favor of something rather flexible to account for all this. The school:subkey-method should be fine. But I would suggest to define some basic subkeys 'internationally' e.g. type. If everything is behind a country-key it might be harder to process automatically. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Amenity swimming_pool (was Amenity parking)
Permissive means that you have permission by default. Is 'permit' better-known by non-English speakers than 'permission'? To me this would be something different: I would assume that a permit is some document expressing permission. For something tagged with access=permit I would assume you need an permit to access - this would be more like access=private. So something like tolerated would also be more intutive for me. By the way for permissive even a pretty decent dictionary doesn't provide any reasonable translation in this context. In writing this reply I thought about examples for permissive here in Germany. Thinking about that I guess it's kind of the default here so we hardly differentiate from access=yes. Basically it would be any private way or road where access is not explicitly restricted (e.g. by a sign private - do not enter). Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Amenity swimming_pool (was Amenity parking)
What I asked is whether non-English speakers think permissive relates to needing a permit because they're more familiar with 'permit' than 'permission'. So in fact I did not get your question right. Sorry for the confusion. Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Health and other stories
Anyway, this is partly just fussing about the mismatch between natural language and a more formal language, I guess. Plus some fuzziness due to translation or non-native speakers trying to transfer terms of their native language into English. Added the fact that English often has two words where other languages have only one - amenity and facility in this context translate to the same German word. To be honest I haven't really thought about the difference between until this thread came up... Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - entrance/door
Hi Andreas, I think the following comment should also be incorporated into the proposal: Also leaves seems to be in more common use than wings, so change: entrance:door:wings to entrance:door:leaves Regards, Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - natural=ridge
2011/11/8 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com I am not sure for the wording though. Isn't this an edge? Maybe I am confused, because wikipedia told me that a ridge would be a natural feature (your proposal doesn't give any definition what a ridge is) occuring at a _chain of mountains_ (but in the osm wiki you also speak about hills) while for shorter places I found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar%C3%AAte (french words do IMHO not really make sense) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_(topography), crest and edge (could also be that interlanguage links are not precise, I am mostly referring to the difference between de:Gebirgskamm and de:Grat). Looking at Wikipedia I can follow your point. But I think this is more due the language links. I think ridge is the common term which encompasses both German terms Grat and Gebirgskamm. Here some articles from Wikipedia that should show their common use: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crib_Goch - especially legend of map * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Everest#Southeast_ridge Also interesting is the definition of Arête as a kind of ridge in Merriam-Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arete Is this all the same? Shall we distinct between them? Basically I think we shouldn't. I think due to the various words in use for features of this kind a definition should be given and alternatives proposed for features that are close but excluded by this definition. This would definetly help - especially for us Germans trying to understand the difference :-) Here a picture of what I personally would consider a ridge: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Herzogstand_HQ.jpg Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - natural=ridge
Hi Martin, 2011/11/8 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Yes, that's unambigous, but what about this? Thanks, that's what I tried . 1 http://www.rainerundclaudia.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/20090419-Mit-Julia-u.-Alex-am-Karlsruher-Grat-0232.jpg 2 http://alpinestock.com/grat_sareiserjoch_malbun_liechtenstein_sjpg1883.jpg I would consider both a ridge. But honestly my personal definition would be to the German Grat...:-) To give a negative example, here something I would not consider a ridge but either cliff or rock: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/H%C3%B6rnleLochenstein.jpg More seriously: I would suggest to use ridge for the distinct feature. A could extend (more or less) horizontally like the image I've referenced before. There I would claim that a ridge at maximum extends from one peak to another. There are also ridges more vertically oriented and separating the slopes of a mountain. So basically a ridge is a feature of one or two mountains only. I think we all agree, that a continental divide or the Alpenhauptkamm are not ridges. They these large scale features will very likely contain many ridges but also other features. This is probably like the distiction between cliff and coast. Mapping mountain ranges IMO is a different story, more related to mapping large features (e.g. valleys like the Great Rift Valley). To my point of view this is already adequatly covered in the proposal. Also I just came across the region proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Region Michael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
