Re: [Tagging] Area of Firestations

[Mike H]

I've only mapped one station like this so far, but the area is actually
rendered on the map. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616033018


On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:43 AM Tom Pfeifer  wrote:

> Yes of course, I've been doing this for long already.
>
> On 20.09.2018 14:06, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > Yes, just go for it. Makes perfect sense.
> >
> > Phil (trigpoint)
> >
> > On 20 September 2018 12:56:03 BST, dktue  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I love how we map areas with amenity=school and buildings inside of
> it
> > with building=school. The same goes for amenity=hospital and
> > building=hospital.
> >
> > What I'd like to have is the same schema for firestations: They often
> > have a large area and one or multiple buildings on it.
> >
> > Should I go with amenity=fire_station for the area and
> > building=fire_station for the buildings inside of it?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > dktue
>
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Re: [Tagging] amenity=festival_ground

[Mike H]

Martin, With the first case I meant places where a festival is held, but
it's normally something else like the examples you gave. It also
includes festivals that take place in just open fields. Most of the
examples had information on the event and not any physical features, which
is my biggest concern with this tagging.

The third case was for places that are designated to host festivals such as
fairgrounds, showgrounds, etc... These sites will often be used for other
uses when they are not hosting festivals, but they are primarily built for
the festival. As for the case you bring up of the venues that
aren't strictly for music if they are an area for festivals/events that
sometimes happen to be musical events, I don't see why they wouldn't fit
into the third category. I think there is a difference between a site
sometimes hosting music vs it being built just to hold concerts and the
like.

I guess I wasn't very clear in the my original message, hopefully that
clears it up for you.

Jgon6

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 7:07 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> 2018-07-28 5:11 GMT+02:00 Mike H <1jg...@gmail.com>:
>
>> I came across the tag amenity=festival_grounds
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfestival_grounds> and
>> it has quite a bit of variance in its use. I wrote a diary entry on it so I
>> have more details there.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jgon6/diary/44497
>>
>> Basically, the tag has 3 main uses. The first is to map where specific
>> festivals are hosted. The second is to map outdoor music venues, and the
>> third is to map sites that actually host festivals or other large events. I
>> know this tag was never "approved", but it does have more than a few uses,
>> and I think it could be a useful tag.
>>
>> What thought does everyone else have?
>>
>
>
> I do not understand the difference between the first and third usage you
> mention.
>
> I could imagine making a distinction between "music venues" (places where
> there are often concerts, like from daily to at least several times a
> month) and those where festivals are held infrequently (but maybe regularly
> recurring), the latter being classified as festival grounds. Maybe there
> are also other events taking place on these grounds? An indicator could
> also be the kind of fencing: is it permanent (music venue) or temporary
> (festival ground).
>
> There are also venues which can't be classified as music venues, because a
> lot of different kind of events take place there (amongst which also
> concerts).
>
> Other places where festivals and open air concerts take place cannot
> reasonably be tagged as festival grounds, like the central square of the
> town or city, e.g. in Rome there are concerts in Circus Maximus or in front
> of the St. John's Basilica (few times a year), in Verona there is the
> "arena" an ancient Roman amphitheatre (many different events through the
> year, unsure about this), in medieval towns the concerts are often at the
> market square, in front of the townhall, etc.  and also other temporary
> festival grounds can be known for different reasons, e.g. castles, stadions
> and racing circuits. Some of them are mostly known for a famous festival
> that takes place there, while for others the festival is just a small part
> of what they do. Shall this be important for our classification?
>
> Then there are places where festivals are held but otherwise there is
> "nothing" remarkable (farmland, desert, meadow, beach etc.).
>
> Generally, we should decide what kind of features and or properties we
> would want to distinguish and which tags are the best (universally
> applicable, unambigous compared to the things we want to distinguish) to do
> it. Having the same tag for what we perceive as different things (according
> to your statement cited above) is not good.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
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[Tagging] amenity=festival_ground

[Mike H]

I came across the tag amenity=festival_grounds
 and it
has quite a bit of variance in its use. I wrote a diary entry on it so I
have more details there.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jgon6/diary/44497

Basically, the tag has 3 main uses. The first is to map where specific
festivals are hosted. The second is to map outdoor music venues, and the
third is to map sites that actually host festivals or other large events. I
know this tag was never "approved", but it does have more than a few uses,
and I think it could be a useful tag.

What thought does everyone else have?

Jgon6
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Re: [Tagging] default access tag for driveways

[Mike H]

service=driveway isn't just for residential driveways. It is also used for
other driveways. Here is an example of a driveway to a church.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100946154   I would agree that
residential driveways should probably be implied as access=private.

Jgon6

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 12:08 PM joost schouppe 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The wiki does not explicitly state what the default assumed tagging is for
> highway=service + service=driveway. I've seen it used mostly as the private
> entrance to a house, i.e. the bit of road you use to connect the edge of
> your property to wherever you leave your car. People usually would not put
> up a sign "private" because it's just obvious to anyone.
> In rare cases, the owner will explictly put a sign up. In other rare
> cases, you are actually allowed to enter because there is some right of way.
>
> In this context, it seems obvious that the implied tag should be
> access=private (or destination at the most liberal). You would only add
> "private" if there is signage, and only something else if there is a right
> of way or something.
>
> But maybe this is not obvious in other countries or for other uses of the
> driveway tag? In any case, it seems some routers will allow cyclist to go
> through driveways without an access tag, and that is (in how I've seen it
> used a lot) problematic. Not setting the default to private or destination,
> forces the mapper to explicitly add the tag, which might be considered
> wrong if it is not signposted...
>
> Either way, the wiki could use more guidance about the access tag for this
> specific road type.
>
> (this has probably been discussed before, but I couldn't find something
> relevant)
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
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Re: [Tagging] building = house vs detached.

[Mike H]

I went and updated the wiki a little bit. I added details to the
building=house <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhouse> and
building=detached
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Ddetached> pages. I also
made a page for the building=semidetached_house
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dsemidetached_house>,
when writing that page I found that the building=semi
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dsemi> tag already had a
page, and even talks about the semidatached_house tag, which has about
three times as many uses. I think everyone in this thread might be
interested in looking over the changes I made, and maybe even adding to
them as the pages are still pretty sparse on detail.

Jgon6

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 2:39 PM Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
>
> On 26 July 2018 19:47:11 CEST, Sebastian 
> wrote:
> >Thanks for this explanation. Detached sounds very strange to me.
> >Terrace house evokes in me the feeling of rice terraces or something
> >with a
> >distinct height difference between them.
> Terrace is a very common term and housing style in the UK, well England
> and Wales. It is usually used to refer to terraced houses built in the 19th
> and early 20th centuries.
> >
> >In Australia houses that share one or more walls with the next house
> >(can
> >be one or both sides) are called town houses.
> Interestingly this is the estate agent term used to describe modern
> terraced houses.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
> >
> >In Germany it's called 'Reihenhaus'.
> >
> >On 23 July 2018 at 00:27, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> >
> >> Probably the reason can be explained etymologically.
> >>
> >> In the UK, terraced houses (AmE row houses) are very common, so those
> >> lucky enough to hear less noise from their neighbours emphasize that
> >by
> >> owning a 'detached' (not attached to a terrace) or 'semi-detached'
> >(two
> >> houses sharing a wall) building. The detached/semi-detached also
> >allow
> >> outdoor access to the back garden, so the 'end-of-terrace' house is
> >> marketed with a similar advantage.
> >>
> >> In countries where terraced houses are less common, there is less
> >need to
> >> emphasize that the house is free-standing. Also, 'house' is easier to
> >> understand for a non-native speaker than 'detached'.
> >>
> >> tom
> >>
> >>
> >> On 22.07.2018 20:56, Mike H wrote:
> >>
> >>> The definitions of building=house and building=detached on the wiki
> >are
> >>> very similar and don't seem to have any meaningful difference.
> >>>
> >>> I've seen people say that house is meant for rowhouses, and detached
> >>> should be for stand-alone houses, but there is no documentation that
> >>> explains that. If that is the intended meanings of the tags, then
> >the wiki
> >>> pages need some work.
> >>>
> >>> As far as how I've seen things actually mapped, I've only ever seen
> >the
> >>> building=house tag. Taginfo shows 1.2 million uses of detached, and
> >27.2
> >>> million uses of building=house, so they are both used quite a bit,
> >but
> >>> house is used a lot more.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone elaborate on these tags, or have ideas on how they could
> >be
> >>> better written about?
> >>>
> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhouse
> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Ddetached
> >>>
> >>
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Re: [Tagging] building = house vs detached.

[Mike H]

It seems that detached is supposed to be a more detailed value than house.
I went through as many house type values for building as I could find of
taginfo, and put them into a table quite a few of them look to be
duplicates/typos. I've attached that table to this email. I used the parent
column there to list the more general option above the current row, or if
the value was a duplicate I added that in there.

I also came up with this tree of values as best as I could (sorted by
usage):

-+yes
 +-+residential
   +-+house
 +detached
 +terrace
 +static_caravan
 +semidetached_house
 +manor
 +villa

If that seems correct to everyone I'll see if I can edit the wiki to make
all of this a bit more clear.


On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 8:58 PM Jmapb  wrote:

> On 7/22/2018 6:16 PM, Warin wrote:
>
> >
> > For a row of houses .. ie terrace houses there is
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dterrace
> >
> > I disagree with the suggesting if they are individually mapped they
> > should be tagged building=house, they are still a terrace so
> > building=terrace is still appropriate and more detailed.
>
> By my understanding, the building=terrace tag is to be used when an
> entire set (terrace) of row houses is mapped as a single building way.
> Then the individual residences can be indicated using address nodes or
> address interpolation.
>
> If each individual row house is mapped as its own building way, each
> should be tagged building=house.
>
> (Per the wiki, building=terrace is for "a single way used to define the
> outline of a linear row of residential dwellings, each of which normally
> has its own entrance, which form a terrace (row-house in North American
> English). Consider defining each dwelling separately using 'house'.")
>
> J
>
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house names.ods
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet
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[Tagging] building = house vs detached.

[Mike H]

The definitions of building=house and building=detached on the wiki are
very similar and don't seem to have any meaningful difference.

I've seen people say that house is meant for rowhouses, and detached should
be for stand-alone houses, but there is no documentation that explains
that. If that is the intended meanings of the tags, then the wiki pages
need some work.

As far as how I've seen things actually mapped, I've only ever seen the
building=house tag. Taginfo shows 1.2 million uses of detached, and 27.2
million uses of building=house, so they are both used quite a bit, but
house is used a lot more.

Can anyone elaborate on these tags, or have ideas on how they could be
better written about?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhouse
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Ddetached
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Re: [Tagging] Unifying large multi-location store chains

[Mike H]

I'd like to point out that I've seen a lot of chains like these tagged with
a wikipedia=* tag for the brand, they should use the brand:wikipedia tag
instead. This is a big problem for Nominatim right now, as it ranks results
based on wiki tags. So if you are going through these it would be a great
time to fix these as well.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:09 PM Leon Karcher 
wrote:

> Hi Marc,
>
> Yes, I'm aware of the fact that names may differ for some brands, but
> espacially American companies use the brand's name for all their locations.
> That's also a reason why I want to review the changed objects manually,
> because if the name may differ, like [brand name] [city name], I would not
> change it. The main reason to change the names is because there are a lot
> of different variants of a name in our database, like "Applebee's",
> "applebee's", "Applebees" or "Applebee`s". So I'll mainly fix the spelling
> and apostrophe mistakes ( ' ` ).
>
> 2018-05-03 18:58 GMT+02:00 marc marc :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Le 03. 05. 18 à 18:34, Leon Karcher a écrit :
>> > I thought about unifying large store/restaurant chains
>>
>> if X is a brand, it's not a name for every poi of this brand.
>> for exemple if several poi have name=Applebees,
>> then Applebees is maybe an brand or an operator
>> but it is no more the name of each poi
>>
>> Regards,
>> Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Slipway vs boat ramp

[Mike H]

Oops, I forgot to include the changeset discussion. Here it is,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58388640#map=17/31.39739/-94.52454


On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:16 PM Mike H <1jg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The user Tex Shotcaller made me realize that there are two different kinds
> of slipway. There is the traditional slipway where you have a track to
> slide the boat down, and then there are boat ramps where you drive a
> trailer into the water and float the boat off the trailer. Both of these
> are very different feature, but they are tagged the same way as
> leisure=slipway.
>
> I think there is a better way to tag these so that it is known what is
> being described. I'm not really sure what the best way to do this is, and
> so I'm asking here for ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jgon6
>
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[Tagging] Slipway vs boat ramp

[Mike H]

The user Tex Shotcaller made me realize that there are two different kinds
of slipway. There is the traditional slipway where you have a track to
slide the boat down, and then there are boat ramps where you drive a
trailer into the water and float the boat off the trailer. Both of these
are very different feature, but they are tagged the same way as
leisure=slipway.

I think there is a better way to tag these so that it is known what is
being described. I'm not really sure what the best way to do this is, and
so I'm asking here for ideas.

Thanks,

Jgon6
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Re: [Tagging] recent change to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtower

[Mike H]

It looks like they removed the details on the different types and
structures, in order to move that information onto a separate page. This
separate page looks to be currently undeveloped though. I'm not sure if it
should be on the same page or on multiple pages but it looks like that was
the intention.


On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 8:53 PM  wrote:

> I’m asking on behalf of Gazer75 (he isn’t subscribed to the mailing list).
>
>
>
> He pointed out that there was a recent massive deletion of 9/10th of the
> page in the wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dtower=1596199
>
>
>
> Neither he nor I could find any information about where that has been
> discussed. He has for now undone that change.
>
>
>
> Could anyone who knows more about this or has an opinion please comment on
> it?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thorsten
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