Re: [Tagging] oneway=no spams
I notice a quicky increasing number of oneway=no tags on roads, probably due to editors offering some flashy list box for the oneway key. I wonder what's next. bridge=no, tunnel=no...? I find these information-less tags annoying, because you have to browse a long list of bogus tags on each object to finally spot the one or two tags that actually matter. It depends. Sometimes it is useful to add this tag. I typically add it to bidirectional cycle paths along roads as you would normally expect such cycleways to be oneway. Adding a oneway=no indicates that it has been surveyed and found to be bidirectional and will further prevent eager mappers adding the missing oneway=yes tag to this cycleway. But I agree that it is silly to add it to all highways in general. I occasionally see highways having long lists of obvious *=yes access tags (and some silly *=no as well such as boat=no on a highway=trunk!). I think that those editors should only make undefined, yes and -1 selectable, or omit the no values on upload at last, except for motorways, motorway_links and roundabouts. A roundabout with oneway=no is not a roundabout, just a circular road. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Cycle lane tagging
Questions regarding correct cycle lane tagging. Regarding a situation like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle M3a: a) How do I tag the width of the cycle lane? b) How do I tag an arrangement like M3a where the lane is signposted as non-segregated foot and cycle use? Do I need to use lanes tagging for this, which is completely different form the cycle lane tagging? See here how to do it http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface#Surface_for_foot-_and_cycleways ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Substation proposal approved - and a suggestion for a post-vote change
2013/10/12 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 2013/10/12 Ole Nielsen / osm on-...@xs4all.nl I propose to change the meaning of substation=distribution to be used only on substations at the last level of voltage transforming, thus the small street-level transformer kiosks etc supplied with medium voltage (typically 10-30 kV) and delivering low voltage power to households and small businesses. definitely +1 IMHO the IEC are right with defining everything below 100kV as distribution, I wouldn't use this given term with a different meaning. I don't agree. Imagine you find several 90 kV and 63 kV lines in such a substation connected with busbars. Then, the operator can use this stuff to make power transit between lines of a given power level and use transformers to transit between both 90 kV and 63 kV. That's transmission and not distribution obviously and it's below 100 kV. Furthermore, we can't qualify of distribution voltage levels which accept industrial client feeding : CERN is connected to French 400 kV (and I hope everyone will agree 400 kV isn't distribution). I surely wouldn't associate CERN with distribution. They may have their own internal industrial distribution network but substation=industrial is more appropriate for such internal facilities. The idea behind transmission and distribution is to provide data consumers a hint about the role of the substation without having to look for the voltage tag (which may be missing or having multiple ;-separated values). The 100 kV specified threshold is only a guideline and if the mapper think that a 70 kV substation is mainly for transmission then it may be indicated as such. Another example: 132/10 kV substations are not uncommon in Denmark and they seem most appropriately to be considered distribution stations. Of course we are here talking about the final substations *for households and small businesses* only being connected at the low voltage level, not those feeding larger industrial customers at a higher voltage level. I'm open to suggestions for alternatives to distribution. Martin suggested local_distribution which is a bit long but otherwise a possibility. Some other ideas: local or minor?. I am just looking for a way to clearly distinguish those low voltage substations from other substations. BTW, transformer=distribution is currently defined as meaning a transformer supplying low voltage! Ole ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Substation proposal approved - and a suggestion for a post-vote change
The substation refinement proposal has been approved by a large majority of voters. The new feature page can be found here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation Afterwards I regret a bit that I didn't reserve a dedicated value in the substation=* tag for the small street level substations (Trafohäuschen in German). I used the IEC definitions that suggest that anything below 100 kV or so should be considered 'distribution'. It may have been better to define this value only to cover the last level of transformation from medium voltage to low voltage supplied to household customers. This would address the concerns of some mappers, especially in central Europe, that used the old station vs sub_station to distinguish this. I propose to change the meaning of substation=distribution to be used only on substations at the last level of voltage transforming, thus the small street-level transformer kiosks etc supplied with medium voltage (typically 10-30 kV) and delivering low voltage power to households and small businesses. A small substation would then be tagged as power=substation and substation=distribution. Mappers could then unambiguously tag such facilities without having to know the actual voltage(s) employed in a given area. Tagging the voltage is still recommended, though. I would like to have opinions on this. If this change is made some substations at the 'second level' such as 60/10 kV now tagged as 'distribution' should have this tag removed. The current suggestion that small kiosk substations may be tagged as 'power=transformer' will then be removed to avoid any confusion. Only pole mounted transformers will keep their own tagging scheme (power=pole, transformer=yes/distribution). Ole N ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is the difference between power station and sub station clear?
On 21.01.2013 01:54, François Lacombe wrote: May someone answers that question power=station is used for large, fenced areas where high voltage is transformed to medium voltage. In German: Umspannwerk power=sub_station is used for smaller objects, like buildings with 2m each side and a height of a few m, where medium voltage is transformed to low voltage. In German: Trafohäuschen (or Trafostation) That is a misunderstanding that was unfortunately introduced in the early days of OSM. The creator of the 'station' tag, Bahnpirat, has admitted it was a mistake, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Power_lines#RFC_-_draft. In English as substation is a substation never a 'station'. A 'power station' in English is the same as a power plant! This leads to confusion among mappers resulting in quite a few power plants tagged as 'stations' according to my experience. I have seen a lot of small 'Trafohäuschens' tagged as 'station' (especially in the Netherlands) so the distinction is not that clear to mappers. Using voltage=* to indicate the catagory of substation is much better. No, it was rejected. It did not get enough votes. The start of voting was never properly announced on this list. Maybe that could explain the few votes. I only discovered the voting by accident. Maybe it should be revived for a new vote? Maybe. Spelling errors have been corrected in other cases too (e.g. type=broad_leafed). We are all aware that that underscore is wrong but it is quite difficult to get rid of it since 'substation' is currently not supported by renderers and editors. 'broad_leafed' was easier as none of the mainstream renderers are rendering it anyway, AFAIK. This is a consensus among 2 persons at best. This does not legitimate you to make vast changes to the Wiki. There should at least be a topic in the wiki talk page for some months. Discussions about tagging are supposed to take place here, not on 'talk'. And first of all you should contact user aliponte who did a lot of work mapping power networks in central Europe. Do everyone agree with that? No, I disagree. On 24.01.2013 22:46, Ole Nielsen wrote: I have now marked http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dstation as deprecated, removed 'power=station' from the power features template meaning it's gone from all language versions of Map Features using the template and removed links from a few feature pages. This is really bad. Please revert these changes immediately. Otherwise I'll do it, but I am afraid that I would miss some of the affected pages. I think you should first justify why 'station' is a correct tag (i.e. a substation and not a power station). Ole ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Everybody is hiding?
Hi tagging list, the Extended Conditions proposal has been shot down by a majority, and therefore there is still no official way of tagging quite a lot of things. (As a side note, the Extended Conditions proposal is still the de facto standard.) Therefore, I expected that those people who had voted against the proposal came up with a well-designed alternative proposal â yet nothing happened. Shall I conclude that all those people who voted against the proposal did this just for the sake of voting against? First of all I actually approved the proposal but later realized that having variable keys is less than ideal. I am currently working on an alternative proposal and I was planning to announce it within a few days (I have only limited internet access the next couple of days). But here it is. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Conditional_restrictions A short comment on the proposal: The actual conditions go into the tag value. The transport mode (vehicle catagory) and the direction stay in the key in accordance with current practice for access restrictions. Feel free to comment on it, preferably on the talk page. Ole / polderrunner ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
