Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
2015-03-11 12:06 GMT+00:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-03-11 12:56 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: As you can see, each block is subdivided into land plots - each with a courtyard and several buildings that usually all belong to an extended family. Those land plots have a strong significance and the frequent sighting of spontaneous attempts by to map them in various ways is testimony to that. I do not yet have an answer to this requirement - it should obviously be mapped as an area but I have so far failed to select satisfactory attributes to model it. I believe that landuse=* is not suitable - in Senegal, as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_Senegal recommends, the whole urban area is landuse=residential, so it is not available to map smaller subdivisions. maybe a new place value? Of the existing ones, maybe place=neighbourhood? Although this is a really small nieghbourhood compared to other areas with this tag. I don't see a problem in the whole area being landuse=residential, still you could split these into several smaller landuse=residential, but I agree that there will be no inherent semantics about the special situation there with just the landuse tag. I also think that landuse=residential, plus name=* or whatever, is fine. It's how I and some others map housing estates in the UK. I might carve out a portion of the larger landuse=residential. (Not everyone does it this way.) Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
On Mar 11, 2015 7:44 PM, Markus Lindholm markus.lindh...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 March 2015 at 18:04, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote: The trouble is there is no definition yet of city_block Not so. When I added it to osm wiki I also put there a reference to the definition found in Wikipedia and that's also how I've used the tag. I am sorry that I missed your page. I am referring to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dcity_block Where is your page? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
Landuse=* is not just about defining a residential area or an industrial zone. I use all of the class landuses to define the individual grounds for a specific company’s factory or for a certain shop. yes, I can use the landuse to define a section, but I just as often use it to define individual places - just as one defines a school, park, hospital, or other facility. I am mapping Maebashi, Japan street by street thanks to a recent imagery update. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.42821/139.03987 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.42821/139.03987 There is no reason you can’t use landuse=residential on the land, wall on the border, and a building=* as necessary. This is the only intended use of landuse=religious, for example - define the grounds of a religious place. Plot=* could be applied to many different kinds of land ownership, just as the other industrial, commercial, and industrial landuses are already used in this way. if you really want to map the landuse of individual houses, or even contiguous blocks of residential housing, the landuse=residential is for you. The blocks might be numbered (like Japan), and the house numbered below that. (no street names or sequential numbers, as the plots are not numbered based on street location). I went looking fro an answer to this just now, (assuming Japan Tagging solved this issue) because these block numbers are absolutely necessary for visual navigation (they show up on Google and Apple maps, for example) So I compared the wikipedia entry on the Japan addressing system to the OSM wiki page for Japan tagging to find an answer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_addressing_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_addressing_system http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Places http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Places There are two land naming systems in use in Japan (old and new), and between them and the special cases, they use up all the values between “city” and “neighborhood” (not every value is used for every address, it is a mix for each area), so some kind of administrative value for “place=block” will have to be used for the last level between “neighborhood” and “street address” (plot # in Japan), which is currently undocumented on the JA tagging Wiki page. . It might help this labeling situation as well. Javbw On Mar 11, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-03-11 12:06 GMT+00:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2015-03-11 12:56 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: As you can see, each block is subdivided into land plots - each with a courtyard and several buildings that usually all belong to an extended family. Those land plots have a strong significance and the frequent sighting of spontaneous attempts by to map them in various ways is testimony to that. I do not yet have an answer to this requirement - it should obviously be mapped as an area but I have so far failed to select satisfactory attributes to model it. I believe that landuse=* is not suitable - in Senegal, as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_Senegal recommends, the whole urban area is landuse=residential, so it is not available to map smaller subdivisions. maybe a new place value? Of the existing ones, maybe place=neighbourhood? Although this is a really small nieghbourhood compared to other areas with this tag. I don't see a problem in the whole area being landuse=residential, still you could split these into several smaller landuse=residential, but I agree that there will be no inherent semantics about the special situation there with just the landuse tag. I also think that landuse=residential, plus name=* or whatever, is fine. It's how I and some others map housing estates in the UK. I might carve out a portion of the larger landuse=residential. (Not everyone does it this way.) Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
On 11 March 2015 at 20:14, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 11, 2015 7:44 PM, Markus Lindholm markus.lindh...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 March 2015 at 18:04, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote: The trouble is there is no definition yet of city_block Not so. When I added it to osm wiki I also put there a reference to the definition found in Wikipedia and that's also how I've used the tag. I am sorry that I missed your page. I am referring to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dcity_block Where is your page? I bit of confusion, I added it here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Populated_settlements.2C_urban and there I also added a link to the Wikipedia definition. Some other people added the the actual page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dcity_block I assumed there was a link to Wikipedia from that page also, but now I realize that it is missing. /Markus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Buildings blocks
Hi, I would like to know if putting building blocks in OSM should be avoided in all cases. I am currently teaching GIS students in Dakar that have ben required to digitize only building blocks on their area of study. Could this been done on OSM (and in that case how to tag it, as for landuse=residential encompass all the areas covered by building blocks and streets?) or always avoided? I did not find the answer in the wiki. Sincerely, Severin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
2015-03-11 12:12 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com: I would like to know if putting building blocks in OSM should be avoided in all cases. I am currently teaching GIS students in Dakar that have ben required to digitize only building blocks on their area of study. Could this been done on OSM (and in that case how to tag it, as for landuse=residential encompass all the areas covered by building blocks and streets?) or always avoided? I did not find the answer in the wiki. There is no general answer to this question. My personal suggestion is to tag them with landuse=residential and not include the streets (if they're actually residential areas), or commercial, retail etc. according to what is there. You might also want to split the block into more than one landuse if it is required to better represent reality. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
W dniu 11.03.2015 13:06, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a): maybe a new place value? Of the existing ones, maybe place=neighbourhood? Although this is a really small nieghbourhood compared to other areas with this tag. Probably place=city_block is exactly what you're looking for: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dcity_block https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_block -- Piaseczno Miasto Wąskotorowe ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
2015-03-11 12:56 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: As you can see, each block is subdivided into land plots - each with a courtyard and several buildings that usually all belong to an extended family. Those land plots have a strong significance and the frequent sighting of spontaneous attempts by to map them in various ways is testimony to that. I do not yet have an answer to this requirement - it should obviously be mapped as an area but I have so far failed to select satisfactory attributes to model it. I believe that landuse=* is not suitable - in Senegal, as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_Senegal recommends, the whole urban area is landuse=residential, so it is not available to map smaller subdivisions. maybe a new place value? Of the existing ones, maybe place=neighbourhood? Although this is a really small nieghbourhood compared to other areas with this tag. I don't see a problem in the whole area being landuse=residential, still you could split these into several smaller landuse=residential, but I agree that there will be no inherent semantics about the special situation there with just the landuse tag. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Buildings blocks
On 11/03/2015 12:22, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-03-11 12:12 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com mailto:severin.men...@gmail.com: I would like to know if putting building blocks in OSM should be avoided in all cases. I am currently teaching GIS students in Dakar that have ben required to digitize only building blocks on their area of study. Could this been done on OSM (and in that case how to tag it, as for landuse=residential encompass all the areas covered by building blocks and streets?) or always avoided? I did not find the answer in the wiki. There is no general answer to this question. My personal suggestion is to tag them with landuse=residential and not include the streets (if they're actually residential areas), or commercial, retail etc. according to what is there. You might also want to split the block into more than one landuse if it is required to better represent reality. Is it actually the building blocks that they want to map ? Or the urban land plots that often form a unit of habitation in moderately dense African cities ? I suspect that this thread is about the latter. I am somewhat active in mapping Senegal and I have witnessed many attempts to map the fine subdivisions of the urban fabric - the whole plot mapped as a building, just its limit mapped as a wall, just a name with no other attribute, a landuse, or quite a few other creative misguided combinations that show that people really want to map that even if the editor shows no preset to that effect. Those not used to map Senegal can take a look at the following orbital imagery for illustrations of what I have in mind: http://i.imgur.com/jbIe1vB.png http://i.imgur.com/8BvdP30.png As you can see, each block is subdivided into land plots - each with a courtyard and several buildings that usually all belong to an extended family. Those land plots have a strong significance and the frequent sighting of spontaneous attempts by to map them in various ways is testimony to that. I do not yet have an answer to this requirement - it should obviously be mapped as an area but I have so far failed to select satisfactory attributes to model it. I believe that landuse=* is not suitable - in Senegal, as http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_Senegal recommends, the whole urban area is landuse=residential, so it is not available to map smaller subdivisions. cc: Augustin who might be able to tell us about how this issue is perceived in Burkina Faso. (The two images above are also provide good examples of one of my pet peeves: the Senegalese spaghetti way syndrome - this is entirely off-topic but having corrected so many of them over the years I just felt a strong need to share it with someone) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
