Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[Warin]

On 8/09/2015 12:43 PM, johnw wrote:


On Sep 8, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


Flow direction is the best of these (so far). It is descriptive of 
what is to be tagged.


What do they use for pipelines? I imagine there is some tag based on 
the way direction that can indicate flow.





I don't know. But I do know of one group of pipelines that are used in 
doth directions;


When electricity generation is required they flow water down hill to 
power electrical turbines.


When there is an excess of electrical generation they pump water uphill.

From the pipeline wiki this looks to be used ...

flow_direction 
=forward/backward/both 
.. note that flow_direction is undocumented.
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[John Willis]

I think using it for pipes and waterways is a good thing, especially when used 
with the way's inherent direction.

There are pipes, canals, and other waterways where both directions occur, but 
like the incline tag, it is best to specify what direction the way's inherent 
direction implies in some circumstances (like near very convoluted river, 
canal, and drain systems found in rainy /low lying places).

Javbw

> On Sep 8, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 8/09/2015 12:43 PM, johnw wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sep 8, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Flow direction is the best of these (so far). It is descriptive of what is 
>>> to be tagged. 
>> 
>> What do they use for pipelines? I imagine there is some tag based on the way 
>> direction that can indicate flow. 
> 
> I don't know. But I do know of one group of pipelines that are used in doth 
> directions;
> 
> When electricity generation is required they flow water down hill to power 
> electrical turbines. 
> 
> When there is an excess of electrical generation they pump water uphill. 
> 
> From the pipeline wiki this looks to be used ... 
> 
> flow_direction=forward/backward/both .. note that flow_direction is 
> undocumented. 
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[Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[David Marchal]

Hello, there.
I'm drafting a proposal concerning some waterways whose flow regularly changes 
direction, which happens near some sinkholes named estavelles, which drain or 
feed water according to the aquifer level. I would consequently propose a way 
to map it, but it should be consistent with current tags, so I wondered: should 
I propose using
oneway=reversible, as it already exists and can be used on other ways than 
roads, according to the wiki, but would in this case be used to indicate that 
something is _not_ oneway, oranother tag, such as twoway=yes, which could be 
clearer in this context of a way you would expect to be oneway, but at the risk 
of duplicating the use of oneway=no?
Hoping you can help,
Regards.
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 07/09/2015, David Marchal  wrote:
> I'm drafting a proposal concerning some waterways whose flow regularly
> changes direction, which happens near some sinkholes named estavelles, which
> drain or feed water according to the aquifer level. I would consequently
> propose a way to map it, but it should be consistent with current tags, so I
> wondered: should I propose using
> oneway=reversible, as it already exists and can be used on other ways than
> roads, according to the wiki, but would in this case be used to indicate
> that something is _not_ oneway, oranother tag, such as twoway=yes, which
> could be clearer in this context of a way you would expect to be oneway, but
> at the risk of duplicating the use of oneway=no?

Don't use oneway=*: it relates to the direction that vehicles (in this
case boats) are allowed to take, not to the waterflow.

I don't know of an existing tag. I've searched for 'flow' and
'up/downstream' in taginfo, but the only thing I found came from
imports and had very bad values from an OSM POV. Unless somebody has a
better Idea, I suggest creating a tag.
waterway:flow=forwards/backwards come to my mind, but that's an
endlessly bikeshedable topic.

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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[Volker Schmidt]

It seems that oneway:flow=yes|no is extensively used in Florida and
oneway:flow=yes appears on most of the length of the Missisippi.
I suppose it's used in the same sense as you want to use your proposed tag

On 7 September 2015 at 17:29, David Marchal  wrote:

> Hello, there.
>
> I'm drafting a proposal concerning some waterways whose flow regularly
> changes direction, which happens near some sinkholes named estavelles,
> which drain or feed water according to the aquifer level. I would
> consequently propose a way to map it, but it should be consistent with
> current tags, so I wondered: should I propose using
>
>
>1. oneway=reversible, as it already exists and can be used on other
>ways than roads, according to the wiki, but would in this case be used to
>indicate that something is _not_ oneway, or
>2. another tag, such as twoway=yes, which could be clearer in this
>context of a way you would expect to be oneway, but at the risk of
>duplicating the use of oneway=no?
>
>
> Hoping you can help,
>
> Regards.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-09-07 17:57 GMT+02:00 moltonel 3x Combo :

> I don't know of an existing tag. I've searched for 'flow' and
> 'up/downstream' in taginfo, but the only thing I found came from
> imports and had very bad values from an OSM POV. Unless somebody has a
> better Idea, I suggest creating a tag.
> waterway:flow=forwards/backwards come to my mind, but that's an
> endlessly bikeshedable topic.
>


there are some very few occurences of previously mentioned "flow_direction"
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/flow_direction#overview
we could also use incline=up/down (is in use, but rarely in conjunction
with waterways)

More often I found the undocumented "oneway:flow"
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/oneway%3Aflow
(there is a oneway restriction in flow direction?) values are yes/no.

There are also 634 times "FlowDir" (atypical key name, likely from an
import)

Personally from the values in use that I found I'd go with "flow_direction"
(values in use are "forward" and "both"), because its not an abbreviation
and quite verbose in what it is describing. "oneway:flow" doesn't make much
sense to me.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[Volker Schmidt]

I am need of a tag for this for many waterways near the sea here, as there
waterflow is controlled by gates or is tidal or is both. I like
flow_direction.

However it's a tricky business. Take the river Thames, which can be tidal
up to London, depending on tides (and wind). But I would be reluctant to
tag the river's water flow from London downwards as flow_direction=both

Also, one needs more values:
flow_direction=forward|backward|tide_dependent|operator_controlled|...
default value: forward

I also would like to tag one-way sluice gates ("porte vinciane") that work
as back-flow-protection valves in waterways, typically to prevent the
influx of saline water at high tide. I have used sluice_gate and lock_gate
for this, but am unhappy about both.

On 7 September 2015 at 18:16, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> 2015-09-07 17:57 GMT+02:00 moltonel 3x Combo :
>
>> I don't know of an existing tag. I've searched for 'flow' and
>> 'up/downstream' in taginfo, but the only thing I found came from
>> imports and had very bad values from an OSM POV. Unless somebody has a
>> better Idea, I suggest creating a tag.
>> waterway:flow=forwards/backwards come to my mind, but that's an
>> endlessly bikeshedable topic.
>>
>
>
> there are some very few occurences of previously mentioned
> "flow_direction" http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/flow_direction#overview
> we could also use incline=up/down (is in use, but rarely in conjunction
> with waterways)
>
> More often I found the undocumented "oneway:flow"
> http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/oneway%3Aflow
> (there is a oneway restriction in flow direction?) values are yes/no.
>
> There are also 634 times "FlowDir" (atypical key name, likely from an
> import)
>
> Personally from the values in use that I found I'd go with
> "flow_direction" (values in use are "forward" and "both"), because its not
> an abbreviation and quite verbose in what it is describing. "oneway:flow"
> doesn't make much sense to me.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[Warin]

On 8/09/2015 2:16 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2015-09-07 17:57 GMT+02:00 moltonel 3x Combo >:


I don't know of an existing tag. I've searched for 'flow' and
'up/downstream' in taginfo, but the only thing I found came from
imports and had very bad values from an OSM POV. Unless somebody has a
better Idea, I suggest creating a tag.
waterway:flow=forwards/backwards come to my mind, but that's an
endlessly bikeshedable topic.



there are some very few occurences of previously mentioned 
"flow_direction" http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/flow_direction#overview
we could also use incline=up/down (is in use, but rarely in 
conjunction with waterways)


key incline
The use of incline tag is presently for a fixed difference in height 
over some distance.
For tidal flows the incline is not fixed (varies with time, moon 
position etc), so I would not use this tag.

It goes against OSM present practice.


More often I found the undocumented "oneway:flow" 
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/oneway%3Aflow

(there is a oneway restriction in flow direction?) values are yes/no.

The word "oneway" to me imply the direction is one way ONLY.


There are also 634 times "FlowDir" (atypical key name, likely from an 
import)


Personally from the values in use that I found I'd go with 
"flow_direction" (values in use are "forward" and "both"), because its 
not an abbreviation and quite verbose in what it is describing. 
"oneway:flow" doesn't make much sense to me.





Flow direction is the best of these (so far). It is descriptive of what 
is to be tagged.
It may also be used for other things (carrying anything) .. the tag 
should not be restricted to just water ... while that is the common 
application .. why restrict it?
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[johnw]

> On Sep 8, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Flow direction is the best of these (so far). It is descriptive of what is to 
> be tagged. 

What do they use for pipelines? I imagine there is some tag based on the way 
direction that can indicate flow. 

Javbw___
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Re: [Tagging] Drafting proposal: use oneway=reversible or create tag?

[moltonel]

On 7 September 2015 17:38:45 GMT+01:00, Volker Schmidt  
wrote:
>tidal
>up to London, depending on tides (and wind). But I would be reluctant
>to
>tag the river's water flow from London downwards as flow_direction=both

Yes, rivers can be tidal without their flow reversing. The water level can rise 
during the rising tide but still flow toward the sea. tidal=yes is a fairly 
common tag.

>Also, one needs more values:
>flow_direction=forward|backward|tide_dependent|operator_controlled|...
>default value: forward

LGTM

I'd advise against any up/down value because the question normaly only arrises 
when the relief is fairly flat.
-- 
Vincent Dp

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