Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/25 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: Thanks, I did not know those two words togetger had a specific meaning. Then, shouldn't this be under leisure key? Like sports_centre, golf_course, etc.? Depends on the cultural use of the term, someone has added rec ground to the wiki as a big open space, which might be applicable to them, but isn't to rural aussies... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2009-November/004050.html ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/25 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: What's wrong with the current tags? leisure=park leisure=garden There is nothing wrong with that, but again - what's the landuse? I mean - it's not a wild natural ground, the land is used for specific purpose by people, so imho it should be tagged with landuse tag saying this land is used for leisure, recreation or something... in a lot of cases that would be larger area than what you would tag with leisure=whatever. Just because something is tagged as a garden or park has no indication of use, most parks I know of have signs up about what they can't be used for, like golf practice, dogs off their leash and motorbikes, but they can be used for picnics, playing other sports and kids just horsing about, so landuse=leisure, leisure=park... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/19 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: I see your point... I think the wiki definition of landuse=recreation_ground is a bit in conflict with common sense (like the leisure=garden was) and it should be changed. I don't think so. Recreation ground is a term that is refering to sports, even though it's name seems to be more generic. I would say the land where are gardens, parks, zoos, sport centres, ... is used for recreation, so it should be tagged landuse=recreation_ground. -1, see above. Not every area that can be used for recreation would be called a recreation ground as far as I know. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
On 22 May 2010 20:13, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/19 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: I see your point... I think the wiki definition of landuse=recreation_ground is a bit in conflict with common sense (like the leisure=garden was) and it should be changed. I don't think so. Recreation ground is a term that is refering to sports, even though it's name seems to be more generic. In Australia at least, recreation grounds are usually pretty specific areas used for things like horse sports. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
John Smith napsal(a): On 22 May 2010 20:13, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/5/19 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: I see your point... I think the wiki definition of landuse=recreation_ground is a bit in conflict with common sense (like the leisure=garden was) and it should be changed. I don't think so. Recreation ground is a term that is refering to sports, even though it's name seems to be more generic. In Australia at least, recreation grounds are usually pretty specific areas used for things like horse sports. I admit, I'm not from English speaking country, so I have no idea if this term has any specific meaning, my interpretation is based on understanding it from sources like wikipedia and my own knowledge of English language. Even though Wikipedia says recreation isn't completely the same as leisure - that 'recreation' is more active way of spending free time (e.g. sport) than 'leisure' (e.g. reading a book in a park), all tags relating sports in OSM are under leisure, so I think it's no big deal. But I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time :-)). Anyway, what do you think is an appropriate landuse value for areas like public gardens and parks? By the way, you can do for example jogging in a park, so I would say those two terms at least overlap in those areas. Regards, Petr Morávek signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/23 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: In Australia at least, recreation grounds are usually pretty specific areas used for things like horse sports. Even though Wikipedia says recreation isn't completely the same as recreation ground and recreation are 2 different things, just like a park and a soccer field are 2 different things even if you can play soccer in a park. Anyway, what do you think is an appropriate landuse value for areas like public gardens and parks? By the way, you can do for example jogging in What's wrong with the current tags? leisure=park leisure=garden add access=public if you want it to be explicit as to who can access them. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
On 18/05/2010 21:56, Petr Morávek [Xificurk] wrote: maybe even landuse=allotments if anyone wants to tag each property separately. Nope. That would be allotment=plot or something. Each plot is not a separate garden, but just the parcel of land allocated to a tenant. -- Jonathan (allotment holder) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/19 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: landuse=recreation_ground OR landuse=residential - do you know any garden that is outside those two areas? Formal gardens/landscaping around commercial and public buildings? The gardens at a parliament house, library etc may be considered recreational by stretching a point, but I can think of many commercial buildings with formal gardens on their grounds that are not open to the public, but are not residential either. They are just there either for the staff or just to look pretty for those passing by. So industrial, commercial, educational - I've seen both public and private gardens in all of those. Stephen ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
Stephen Hope napsal(a): 2010/5/19 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: landuse=recreation_ground OR landuse=residential - do you know any garden that is outside those two areas? Formal gardens/landscaping around commercial and public buildings? The gardens at a parliament house, library etc may be considered recreational by stretching a point, but I can think of many commercial buildings with formal gardens on their grounds that are not open to the public, but are not residential either. They are just there either for the staff or just to look pretty for those passing by. So industrial, commercial, educational - I've seen both public and private gardens in all of those. Stephen Oh thanks, that did not cross my mind. I take that statement back ;-) Petr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
Hi, I had finally some time to write down some proposal of sub-tagging for leisure=garden as discussed earlier. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Garden_specification Since I'm no big gardener any comments and suggestions are more than welcomed. Regards, Petr Morávek signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
2010/5/18 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: Hi, I had finally some time to write down some proposal of sub-tagging for leisure=garden as discussed earlier. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Garden_specification Since I'm no big gardener any comments and suggestions are more than welcomed. Thanks for putting this up. I would actually try to reduce some of it to the necessary: The most common form of garden, located in proximity to a residence, usually private access only. The main purpose is usually relaxation activities. - I would delete The main purpose is usually relaxation activities. because it restricts without benefit. Botanical gardens are generally well-tended parks displaying a wide range of plants labeled with their botanical names. They may contain specialist plant collections such as cacti and succulent plants, herb gardens, plants from particular parts of the world, and so on. I would put it more into a scientific context: Botanical gardens are scientifically structured and labelled collections of living plants with the purpose of scientific research, conservation, display and education. garden:style=kitchen - These gardens have usually no aesthetic function, they're used for growing vegetable, herbs, etc. I would delete These gardens have usually no aesthetic function because it is IMHO not usefull and depends on taste. I added garden:style=rosarium. Are there any ideas how to solve the problem that this more or less obsoletes leisure=park? Shall we allow the values garden:type and garden:style for parks as well? This could be done by simply avoiding the prefix (type and style without the garden). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
There is maybe also some potential conflict with allotment gardens? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer napsal(a): Thanks for putting this up. I would actually try to reduce some of it to the necessary: The most common form of garden, located in proximity to a residence, usually private access only. The main purpose is usually relaxation activities. - I would delete The main purpose is usually relaxation activities. because it restricts without benefit. By this I have tried to incorporate the idea that in case of residential garden it doesn't really matter if you have a nice garden in the french style or a plain lawn. Botanical gardens are generally well-tended parks displaying a wide range of plants labeled with their botanical names. They may contain specialist plant collections such as cacti and succulent plants, herb gardens, plants from particular parts of the world, and so on. I would put it more into a scientific context: Botanical gardens are scientifically structured and labelled collections of living plants with the purpose of scientific research, conservation, display and education. This was mostly copied out of wikipedia, but your definition is better, I would just change the last and to or. garden:style=kitchen - These gardens have usually no aesthetic function, they're used for growing vegetable, herbs, etc. I would delete These gardens have usually no aesthetic function because it is IMHO not usefull and depends on taste. Makes sense, I'll change that Are there any ideas how to solve the problem that this more or less obsoletes leisure=park? Shall we allow the values garden:type and garden:style for parks as well? This could be done by simply avoiding the prefix (type and style without the garden). I have thought about that, but... 1) We need the prefix, so it is clear type/style of what we are tagging. 2) It is true that leisure=park is somewhat similar to the garden, but I still consider a park as more or less grassy area with fewer plants, or at least smaller variety. And personally I don't know any area where I would hesitate if I should tag it as a park or garden - usually most of the local folks call it one way or the other and the area often has one of the words in its name. 3) This could in theory incorporate many of other tags like landuse=allotments,vineyard,orchard etc., but I guess these are meant for rather large scale, and I think they should stay where they are (landuse key). I think leisure=garden should be located exclusively in landuse=recreation_ground, or residential (for garden:type=residential), maybe even landuse=allotments if anyone wants to tag each property separately. Regards, Petr signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
