Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
On 17/07/2020 16:24, Jan Michel wrote: Hi Andy, we already have (not well documented) tags for this: Either you use destination_sign relations as Sarah pointed out. Or, if you prefer a more simple approach, there are eight defined keys to add the information with approximate directions: direction_north, ..., direction_southwest, direction_northeast, ... For some reason they are only mentioned on the German Wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:information%3Dguidepost But they are used almost 30,000 times already, see e.g. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/direction_south These eight cardinal directions seem to be quite imprecise, but if you look at common intersections, they are able to cover almost all cases. Jan Thanks - that's really useful. With the best will in the world I'm really not going to create several relations for each signed guidepost, so this is perfect for me for "ad hoc destination signs" on otherwise unimportant guideposts (which are the most common type where I'm mapping) Best Regards, A different Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
Hi Kevin, On 20.07.20 05:51, Kevin Kenny wrote: [In the context of relation type=destination_sign] Do I understand the intent correctly that the direction should be the way that the finger is pointing, and not the cardinal direction of the route? Yes, the tags on the relation describe the finger. You can even use a number to give the precise direction in degrees. I ask because in the US, we often describe a direction as "trail north" or whatever in that a hiker going 'northbound' on the route will be walking in that direction - which may be any direction at all on the compass. Following my accustomed habit of jumping right in with the awkward cases, I might try to compose the relations for https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/in/album-72157631291668040/ Note that the top two signs are 'north' and the bottom two are 'south' in terms of trail directions. I don't think we have a scheme for trail directions yet. But, displaying the trail name automatically is not an issue - the 'to' member yields a node or way, and the software can easily look up the relations this way belongs to. Simply having "to" as a distant node could yield a horribly misleading. Oh, wait, 'to' is the next node along the way, not the ultimate destination. Correct. I prefer to use a way as 'to', and this way should start/end at the intersection. This makes it easier to use the data and less prone for ambiguities. Is there a way to give a node ref for what the 'destination' corresponds to? On the sign in question, it might be nice to be able to indicate where Wawayanda Shelter is, since it's about 40 km distant. Nothing established. There are 200 cases of the role 'destination', which I assume are used for exactly this purpose. Jan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 3:33 PM Sarah Hoffmann wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 07:24:25PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: > > I am mapping a fingerpost, aka guidepost: > > > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:information%3Dguidepost > > > > I would like to add the inscription, for each of the three fingers, > > with their compass points. I note: > > > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination > > > > is similar but "destination:forward" and "destination:backward" are > > meaningless in this context; and many finger posts have more than four > > fingers, or fingers not at 90-degree angles to each other, or to > > North. I propose something like: > > Please have a look at > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign > > That's what it looks like in the wild: > https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#guidepost?id=3673098550 > > The schema is a bit verbose but it has the advantage that you can clearly > mark which > way the finger points to instead of giving compass degree approximations. > > Thanks for the pointer; I'd missed that one! Do I understand the intent correctly that the direction should be the way that the finger is pointing, and not the cardinal direction of the route? I ask because in the US, we often describe a direction as "trail north" or whatever in that a hiker going 'northbound' on the route will be walking in that direction - which may be any direction at all on the compass. Following my accustomed habit of jumping right in with the awkward cases, I might try to compose the relations for https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/in/album-72157631291668040/ Note that the top two signs are 'north' and the bottom two are 'south' in terms of trail directions. The post is mapped https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4987311715 "Trail north" on the Appalachian Trail at that point is approximately southeast. (What the compass says, I'm not sure. At that point, you're standing on top of an abandoned iron mine and your compass could be pointing in any direction.) Simply having "to" as a distant node could yield a horribly misleading. Oh, wait, 'to' is the next node along the way, not the ultimate destination. Is there a way to give a node ref for what the 'destination' corresponds to? On the sign in question, it might be nice to be able to indicate where Wawayanda Shelter is, since it's about 40 km distant. On my screen, you have to go out to z12 to see both it and the guidepost pointing to it, but the icons for them don't appear until z16 and you need to go to z17 to see the name. -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
Hi Andy, we already have (not well documented) tags for this: Either you use destination_sign relations as Sarah pointed out. Or, if you prefer a more simple approach, there are eight defined keys to add the information with approximate directions: direction_north, ..., direction_southwest, direction_northeast, ... For some reason they are only mentioned on the German Wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:information%3Dguidepost But they are used almost 30,000 times already, see e.g. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/direction_south These eight cardinal directions seem to be quite imprecise, but if you look at common intersections, they are able to cover almost all cases. Jan On 16.07.20 20:24, Andy Mabbett wrote: I am mapping a fingerpost, aka guidepost: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:information%3Dguidepost I would like to add the inscription, for each of the three fingers, with their compass points. I note: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination destination:337.5:=foo What do folk think? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 07:24:25PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: > I am mapping a fingerpost, aka guidepost: > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:information%3Dguidepost > > I would like to add the inscription, for each of the three fingers, > with their compass points. I note: > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination > > is similar but "destination:forward" and "destination:backward" are > meaningless in this context; and many finger posts have more than four > fingers, or fingers not at 90-degree angles to each other, or to > North. I propose something like: Please have a look at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign That's what it looks like in the wild: https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#guidepost?id=3673098550 The schema is a bit verbose but it has the advantage that you can clearly mark which way the finger points to instead of giving compass degree approximations. Sarah ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 19:26, Andy Mabbett wrote: I propose something like: > >destination:NNW=foo > > or, using degrees: > >destination:337.5:=foo > > If this would cloud the use of "destination", we could use, say: > >inscription:337.5:=foo > > What do folk think? > We need something along those lines. Knowing a fingerpost is there is good, but knowing what it says on each arm and where the arm is pointing is better. For lack of a specific tag I've put stuff like that in the description. Better than nothing and fairly easy to figure out what to put if better tagging comes along. While you/re there... Some fingerposts point to public footpaths or bridleways. They might have words, or a symbol, or both. It would be useful to have a way of tagging those, especially the ones that only have a symbol. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text
I am mapping a fingerpost, aka guidepost: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:information%3Dguidepost I would like to add the inscription, for each of the three fingers, with their compass points. I note: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination is similar but "destination:forward" and "destination:backward" are meaningless in this context; and many finger posts have more than four fingers, or fingers not at 90-degree angles to each other, or to North. I propose something like: destination:NNW=foo or, using degrees: destination:337.5:=foo If this would cloud the use of "destination", we could use, say: inscription:337.5:=foo What do folk think? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
