Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. It's widely available at filling stations in rural areas of the Republic of Ireland (where it takes the form of green diesel --- different colouring on each side of the border helps to identify cross-border misuse as distinct from normal misuse); I'm not sure of the details of the regulations but farm tractors may use it even when on a public road. __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On 12/11/2012 16:55, Janko Mihelić wrote: First, I think we have no tags for a fuel station that boats can use. Taginfo says we have a tag harbour:fuel:diesel used 66 times, but it doesn't look quite right to me. This tag is maybe used to tag a harbour that has a fuel station. We have just one tag fuel:marine=yes which looks right to me. Can we put that one in the wiki? Janko, as to your first question, a suitable tag is that used by OpenSeaMap: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
Dana utorak, 13. studenoga 2012., korisnik Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com je napisao: Janko, as to your first question, a suitable tag is that used by OpenSeaMap: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities Thank you! I'll put a reference on the amenity=fuel article. That is solved. We still have to find a tag for low tax fuel. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
2012/11/13 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com: seamark:type=small_craft_facility seamark:small_craft_facility:category=fuel_station This tag is applied to a node at the actual location of the fuel station, rather than the harbour:fuel:diesel tag, which merely lists a facility within a harbour area, but does not indicate the location of the fuel station. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities it is used 35 times. The tagging scheme proposed there doesn't really make sense in the contest of OSM. 1. These are not seamarks. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of seamark:type=small_craft_facility together with seamark:small_craft_facility:category=restaurant you can simply tag amenity=restaurant. Or is the seamark definition of a restaurant (A commercial establishment serving food.) somehow incompatible with the osm definition? The same applies to doctor, showers, toilet, car park, I'd propose to add a subtag to a petrol station that can be accessed also by boat and a main tag for a petrol station that can be only accessed from the water. (Or alternatively always a different main tag and add another object in the case that it is a combined petrol station for cars and boats). The tag would be something as simple as amenity=boat_fuel. Maybe we should also have a distinction between floating fuel stations (on the water in a vessel) and the ones on solid ground, i.e. another tag amenity=floating_fuel_station. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On 13/11/2012 17:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: The tagging scheme proposed there doesn't really make sense in the contest of OSM. in the context of OSM is the operative condition, that is why I pointed out that the tags I detailed were OpenSeaMap tags. 1. These are not seamarks. seamark: is the OpenSeaMap prefix for any marine navigation object that appears in the IHO object catalogue. That does not cover only markers, but any object that can appear on a marine chart. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated Yes it is, but it was invented by the IHO, not us. We merely transcribed it into OSM format tags. 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of There are many objects that are of interest to both StreetMap and SeaMap consumers. In these cases, tags from both schemes would be used. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
2012/11/13 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com: seamark: is the OpenSeaMap prefix for any marine navigation object that appears in the IHO object catalogue. That does not cover only markers, but any object that can appear on a marine chart. I am aware of this idea behind, but I don't second it. Neither the makers of bicycle maps not the makers of public transport maps or those who make hiking maps are using a tagging scheme with lots of prefixes like bicycle-mark:type=ordinary_facility bicycle-mark:ordinary_facility=bicycle_pump or stuff like this. Keep it simple. We are all using the same database, and having overly long tags doesn't help for clarity. There is no point in having all objects that appear on a certain type of map with the same prefix, you will have to know the specific tags anyway. 2. the tagging scheme seems unnecessarily complicated Yes it is, but it was invented by the IHO, not us. We merely transcribed it into OSM format tags. yes, this is actually part of the critics: the tags were merely transcribed from another system but it would have been desirable to adopt the system to the way OSM organizes tags, at least for stuff that was already tagged differently in OSM. 3. most of the objects already have a nice short tag, instead of There are many objects that are of interest to both StreetMap and SeaMap consumers. In these cases, tags from both schemes would be used. Mere duplication of the tag values within different keys doesn't really help anyone. There shouldn't be recommendations for stuff that already has its own tag in OSM but this small craft facilites page is full of them. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Small_Craft_Facilities I'd also question tag couples like foo=bar together with bar=xyz if foo=bar doesn't convey a reasonable amount of information (i.e. where you would never be able to use foo=bar without bar=xyz). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
I was thinking about organising fuel nodes in my country, and that requires more tags than the wiki has. First, I think we have no tags for a fuel station that boats can use. Taginfo says we have a tag harbour:fuel:diesel used 66 times, but it doesn't look quite right to me. This tag is maybe used to tag a harbour that has a fuel station. We have just one tag fuel:marine=yes which looks right to me. Can we put that one in the wiki? Second, in my country there is a thing called blue diesel. That is low-tax diesel, and agricultural vehicles and fishing boats can use it. Every country has it's own color for a fuel that has some tax breaks [1]. Do we tag it fuel:diesel:blue=yes for Croatia, fuel:diesel:red=yes for Spain, fuel:diesel:black=yes for Greece? I think that is ok. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes Janko Mihelić ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. 2012/11/12 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: I was thinking about organising fuel nodes in my country, and that requires more tags than the wiki has. First, I think we have no tags for a fuel station that boats can use. Taginfo says we have a tag harbour:fuel:diesel used 66 times, but it doesn't look quite right to me. This tag is maybe used to tag a harbour that has a fuel station. We have just one tag fuel:marine=yes which looks right to me. Can we put that one in the wiki? Second, in my country there is a thing called blue diesel. That is low-tax diesel, and agricultural vehicles and fishing boats can use it. Every country has it's own color for a fuel that has some tax breaks [1]. Do we tag it fuel:diesel:blue=yes for Croatia, fuel:diesel:red=yes for Spain, fuel:diesel:black=yes for Greece? I think that is ok. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes Janko Mihelić ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On 12/11/2012 19:27, Jo wrote: The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. Two common terms in use are: marked diesel and agricultural diesel. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 20:00 +, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 12/11/2012 19:27, Jo wrote: The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. Two common terms in use are: marked diesel and agricultural diesel. In the UK its usually called Red Diesel. Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. I imagine it is something that has to be delivered to farms. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 20:00 +, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 12/11/2012 19:27, Jo wrote: The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. Two common terms in use are: marked diesel and agricultural diesel. In the UK its usually called Red Diesel. Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. I imagine it is something that has to be delivered to farms. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Given that the color of dye used varies by country, and may, in some locations, include fuel used for construction equipment as well as agricultural equipment, marked diesel seems like the best term to use. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 20:00 +, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 12/11/2012 19:27, Jo wrote: The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. Two common terms in use are: marked diesel and agricultural diesel. In the UK its usually called Red Diesel. Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. Strictly speaking this is not true in the UK: there are many circumstances in which you can use red diesel on a public road. It depends on what you are doing, and with what. Low-duty diesel is also available to boat-owners, although not for propulsion. You buy red diesel and settle up the fuel duty with the supplier according to your declaration of how many percent of this fuel will be used for propulsion in UK waters, and how much for other things such as heating/electricity. More info here: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/reddiesel/Pages/buyingreddiesel.aspx ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
You can find it at rural pumps throughout the midwest. Whether or not you can use farm diesel on the highway seems to vary somewhat, at least in Oklahoma and the tribal regions within it's multipolygon, you need to have state- or tribe-issued FARM plates to use it on the highway, since these vehicles typically only make Farm-to-Market or Farm-to-fuel-pump trips anyway. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 20:00 +, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 12/11/2012 19:27, Jo wrote: The dye added is not the common denominator. We need the British term for the tax break status of it. Two common terms in use are: marked diesel and agricultural diesel. In the UK its usually called Red Diesel. Have never seen it sold alongside normal petrol or diesel however, it is illegal to drive on a public road when using it. I imagine it is something that has to be delivered to farms. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fuel, additional tags
Dana ponedjeljak, 12. studenoga 2012., korisnik John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com je napisao: Given that the color of dye used varies by country, and may, in some locations, include fuel used for construction equipment as well as agricultural equipment, marked diesel seems like the best term to use. But what if it's Gasoline 95 that is marked? 3 new suggestions: fuel:lowtax:diesel=yes fuel:marked:gasoline_95=yes fuel:dyed:diesel=yes What about fuel:marine=yes? Maybe everything starting with fuel should be a fuel type offered at the station, so this could be service:marine:fuel=yes and service:motor_vehicles:fuel=no if cars are not allowed. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
