[Tagging] How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names?
How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names? Background: In some countries (Japan, Korea, Ivory Coast…) people orient themselves in the local area using the names of road junctions (like crossroads or roundabouts) or traffic signals rather then the names of streets. While street names also exist, they are not important for orientation. (Note: This is about orientation in the local area, thus different from the names of motorway junctions who’s names serve for orientation at large distances.) Use case: This information is necessary for rendering maps and can be useful for turn-to-turn navigation. Current situation: We have the tags highway=traffic_signals (for traffic signals on road junctions or at straight roads – typical for Japan) and junction=yes (for road junctions with or without traffic signals – typical for Ivory Coast) in use at OSM. Both tags are almost exclusively used on nodes. They can be used together with name=*. This works quite well for simple crossroads (example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_1.png ) Shortcomings of the current situation: It isn’t defined how to tag more complex cases. This should be made clear – also because we want to have a suitable rendering for this in openstreetmap-carto ( http://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/374). Ideas for road junction names (countries like Ivory Coast): Example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_2.png is a junction in Ivory Coast. How can we tag the junction? If we make a node at the red point (centre of the junction), this will be fine for rendering (rendering the name at the position of the red point), but not as easy for turn-to-turn navigation because the point is not part of a way. We could also tag the four nodes where the ways cross. This will be fine for turn-to-turn navigation, but not as easy for rendering (sorting out duplicates because you should render the name only once, not four times). Furthermore, you have to provide the same information four times (and you can make a spelling mistake four times). You could also use a new relation type, which contains the four nodes where the ways cross. This is a clean solution, but complicates to use for beginners, and complicate for a quite simple task like adding a name of a junction. We could also make an area (closed way) around the junction area, sharing nodes with all incoming and outgoing ways. This would be less “clean” tagging than a relation would, but it is much easier to use for beginners, and be still quite easy to process for rendering and (I think) also routing. (PS: Another type of “complex junctions” are roundabouts like http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/5.35590/-4.07360 in Ivory Coast. You will not use the name=* tag on the way that makes up the roundabout itself because this would render like in western countries as a label of the street itself. Instead, you need something different that renders bigger – so the tagging should also provide a solution for this use case.) Ideas for traffic signal names (countries like Japan): On the ground, each traffic signal in complex crossroads seems to have its own sign showing the name. Searching a little bit around, I’ve found at http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Crossroad-names-td5754463.html As theory, the names of Japanese traffic signals are given to each signals, not to a junction. (and basically, the signals on a same junction has same names) However, rendering each name four times may not be very nice. Google and Bing display the name only once ( http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#18/34.3847/132.4542num=4mt0=mapnikmt1=google-mapmt2=bing-mapmt3=geofabrik-topo), in the middle of the crossroad. They even display the traffic signal icon only once. Currently, in OSM there seem to be for Japan the name at each of the nodes where the ways cross. How can we get a clean and reliable tagging here, which is suitable for rendering and turn-to-turn navigation? Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names?
Have you looked at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Ajunction *junction*=yes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Dyes can be useful for a simple junction node that has a name http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name=* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:name%3D* tag I'm using that in the OSM-FR rendering... and even deal with traffic_signals icon shift to display both icon+name. ;) 2014-07-24 16:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-07-24 15:24 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Current situation: We have the tags highway=traffic_signals (for traffic signals on road junctions or at straight roads - typical for Japan) and junction=yes (for road junctions with or without traffic signals - typical for Ivory Coast) in use at OSM. Both tags are almost exclusively used on nodes. They can be used together with name=*. This works quite well for simple crossroads (example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_1.png) Shortcomings of the current situation: It isn't defined how to tag more complex cases. maybe the junction key can be used more universally (with different values), we are already using it also with junction=roundabout, only that it could be disputed that junction=roundabout is covering the whole junctions (the entries and exits you often have to a roundabout could be seen as part of the junction for instance). More in-use values can be found here: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/junction#values Some of them maybe aren't junctions (what kind of junction is approach?), others are diverging from our standard mantra (no abbreviations), like spui or ddi and might merit retagging? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names?
Yes, I know that junction=yes works fine for simple crossroads. My question is: How should we map complex junctions like http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2351057522#map=19/5.34399/-4.00300 Using just an unconnected node like in this example (even after removing the wrong place=hamlet tag) maybe is difficult for turn-to-turn navigation software. So, how can we solve this? Lukas Sommer 2014-07-24 15:29 GMT+00:00 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: Have you looked at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Ajunction *junction*=yes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Dyes can be useful for a simple junction node that has a name http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name=* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:name%3D* tag I'm using that in the OSM-FR rendering... and even deal with traffic_signals icon shift to display both icon+name. ;) 2014-07-24 16:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-07-24 15:24 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Current situation: We have the tags highway=traffic_signals (for traffic signals on road junctions or at straight roads – typical for Japan) and junction=yes (for road junctions with or without traffic signals – typical for Ivory Coast) in use at OSM. Both tags are almost exclusively used on nodes. They can be used together with name=*. This works quite well for simple crossroads (example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_1.png) Shortcomings of the current situation: It isn’t defined how to tag more complex cases. maybe the junction key can be used more universally (with different values), we are already using it also with junction=roundabout, only that it could be disputed that junction=roundabout is covering the whole junctions (the entries and exits you often have to a roundabout could be seen as part of the junction for instance). More in-use values can be found here: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/junction#values Some of them maybe aren't junctions (what kind of junction is approach?), others are diverging from our standard mantra (no abbreviations), like spui or ddi and might merit retagging? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names?
If place=hamlet is wrong, I believe place=locality is often used as a generic tag for nodes indicating named locations. Not really a solution but a simple option. Dan 2014-07-24 17:01 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Yes, I know that junction=yes works fine for simple crossroads. My question is: How should we map complex junctions like http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2351057522#map=19/5.34399/-4.00300 Using just an unconnected node like in this example (even after removing the wrong place=hamlet tag) maybe is difficult for turn-to-turn navigation software. So, how can we solve this? Lukas Sommer 2014-07-24 15:29 GMT+00:00 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: Have you looked at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Ajunction junction=yes can be useful for a simple junction node that has a name=* tag I'm using that in the OSM-FR rendering... and even deal with traffic_signals icon shift to display both icon+name. ;) 2014-07-24 16:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-07-24 15:24 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Current situation: We have the tags highway=traffic_signals (for traffic signals on road junctions or at straight roads – typical for Japan) and junction=yes (for road junctions with or without traffic signals – typical for Ivory Coast) in use at OSM. Both tags are almost exclusively used on nodes. They can be used together with name=*. This works quite well for simple crossroads (example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_1.png) Shortcomings of the current situation: It isn’t defined how to tag more complex cases. maybe the junction key can be used more universally (with different values), we are already using it also with junction=roundabout, only that it could be disputed that junction=roundabout is covering the whole junctions (the entries and exits you often have to a roundabout could be seen as part of the junction for instance). More in-use values can be found here: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/junction#values Some of them maybe aren't junctions (what kind of junction is approach?), others are diverging from our standard mantra (no abbreviations), like spui or ddi and might merit retagging? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag road junction names and traffic signal names?
junction=yes will probably be rendered by openstreetmap-carto soon. However: – Can we accept a simple (not connected) node with junction=yes and name=* in spite of the problems in turn-to-turn navigation? – Is using a relation for this to complicate? But it would be a clean solution to have the “name” tag in the relation and the nodes where the ways cross as members in the relation. – Could we maybe simply draw an area around the junction, sharing nodes with the incoming/outgoing ways? Less clean than a relation, but easier to use. Lukas Sommer 2014-07-24 16:07 GMT+00:00 Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com: If place=hamlet is wrong, I believe place=locality is often used as a generic tag for nodes indicating named locations. Not really a solution but a simple option. Dan 2014-07-24 17:01 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Yes, I know that junction=yes works fine for simple crossroads. My question is: How should we map complex junctions like http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2351057522#map=19/5.34399/-4.00300 Using just an unconnected node like in this example (even after removing the wrong place=hamlet tag) maybe is difficult for turn-to-turn navigation software. So, how can we solve this? Lukas Sommer 2014-07-24 15:29 GMT+00:00 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: Have you looked at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Ajunction junction=yes can be useful for a simple junction node that has a name=* tag I'm using that in the OSM-FR rendering... and even deal with traffic_signals icon shift to display both icon+name. ;) 2014-07-24 16:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com : 2014-07-24 15:24 GMT+02:00 Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: Current situation: We have the tags highway=traffic_signals (for traffic signals on road junctions or at straight roads – typical for Japan) and junction=yes (for road junctions with or without traffic signals – typical for Ivory Coast) in use at OSM. Both tags are almost exclusively used on nodes. They can be used together with name=*. This works quite well for simple crossroads (example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Junction_yes_example_1.png) Shortcomings of the current situation: It isn’t defined how to tag more complex cases. maybe the junction key can be used more universally (with different values), we are already using it also with junction=roundabout, only that it could be disputed that junction=roundabout is covering the whole junctions (the entries and exits you often have to a roundabout could be seen as part of the junction for instance). More in-use values can be found here: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/junction#values Some of them maybe aren't junctions (what kind of junction is approach?), others are diverging from our standard mantra (no abbreviations), like spui or ddi and might merit retagging? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
