Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Colin Smale]

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted the emails somewhere. 

On 2018-05-12 16:41, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 12.05.2018 13:53, Colin Smale wrote: 
> 
>> As Thilo had pointed out, removing off-topic info from the Wiki is not a
>> documented activity of the DWG so I assume everyone was acting in a
>> purely personal capacity?
> 
> Nobody from DWG was involved until Thilo asked DWG to get involved, and
> after that the involvement of DWG was limited to exchanging messages
> with Thilo.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik___
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 12.05.2018 13:53, Colin Smale wrote:
> As Thilo had pointed out, removing off-topic info from the Wiki is not a
> documented activity of the DWG so I assume everyone was acting in a
> purely personal capacity?

Nobody from DWG was involved until Thilo asked DWG to get involved, and
after that the involvement of DWG was limited to exchanging messages
with Thilo.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2018, at 15:54, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> 
> we try to make tag definition pages concise so that they contain only 
> essential information. While I don’t think the pictures are irritating, I 
> think they are mostly irrelevant and distracting from the actual content.


the pictures are not relevant because they are not about the feature, they are 
about rocket technology. It would be like explaining the functioning of an 
engine on the motorway page.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2018, at 14:38, Thilo Haug OSM  wrote:
> 
> What I dont't understand is how these pictures may be disturbing or
> irritating ?


we try to make tag definition pages concise so that they contain only essential 
information. While I don’t think the pictures are irritating, I think they are 
mostly irrelevant and distracting from the actual content.


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Thilo Haug OSM]

Hi,

IMHO the picture helps understand the process of starting and landing,
as not everyone heard about the recent development.
I thought this would be helpful to get an overview at a glance.
(talking about the spacex schematic picture, not the " long exposure" one,
which should only show the "real world"- version of the above).

What I dont't understand is how these pictures may be disturbing or
irritating ?

Illustrations in general are usual to help understand a topic,
especially if one isn't already a specialist in it.
Those were just a bit bigger, but this could be solved by using
"thumbnails",
means smaller versions you have to click on to see the full size.

An alternative would be to link to an wikipedia article which explains it,
but if I can get this general understanding with just some pictures,
I think this is more effective ("a picture is worth a thousand words").

Cheers,
Thilo

Am 12.05.2018 um 13:15 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> Why would you think it is not, and what is the content you believe is
> contained that could help understanding the tags in question?


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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Colin Smale  wrote:

> As Thilo had pointed out, removing off-topic info from the Wiki is not a
> documented activity of the DWG
>

It's not?  Hm...

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group says:

DWG members perform a variety of activities.

and:

The Data Working Group is empowered to put *temporary* blocks (up to 96
hours) on user activity on OSM. This
 is to force people engaging in questionable activity to pause their
efforts, to give other community members
 time to discuss, and so on.

Taken together, those do not exclude removing off-topic info from the Wiki
and imply that doing so is within
the scope of the DWG.  Editing the Wiki is a user activity...

That same page also says:

If you find any acts of vandalism, illegal copying from sources, or major
border alterations, and the
 user does not respond to messages, you can contact the Data Working Group

So how is vandalism defined?  That's on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism which says:

There are various *other types* of bad editing which are very similar to
vandalism, carried out with

various motivations beyond childish fun, but resulting in the need for the
same types of remedies.

These include:

   - [...]
   - Disputes on the wiki
   - [...]

I'll leave you to peruse the documentation yourself to confirm that the DWG
is also the dispute
resolution authority in the event of vandalism (hint: it's on one of those
two pages I gave links
for and it's not hard to find).

So the documentation does indeed say that it is within the scope of the DWG
to remove off-topic
info from the Wiki, and that the DWG is the final arbiter of what is and
isn't off-topic on the Wiki.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Colin Smale]

As Thilo had pointed out, removing off-topic info from the Wiki is not a
documented activity of the DWG so I assume everyone was acting in a
purely personal capacity?

On 2018-05-12 13:15, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> 2018-05-11 18:22 GMT+02:00 Thilo Haug :
> 
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> would you say this picture is "off topic" ?
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aeroway%3Dspaceport=1519060#Pictures
>>  [1]
> 
> Yes, this is clearly off topic for the tag definition page. Why would you 
> think it is not, and what is the content you believe is contained that could 
> help understanding the tags in question?
> 
> Cheers, 
> Martin 
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Links:
--
[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aeroway%3Dspaceportoldid=1519060#Pictures___
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-05-11 18:22 GMT+02:00 Thilo Haug :

> Hi all,
>
> would you say this picture is "off topic" ?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:
> aeroway%3Dspaceport=1519060#Pictures
>


Yes, this is clearly off topic for the tag definition page. Why would you
think it is not, and what is the content you believe is contained that
could help understanding the tags in question?

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Mateusz Konieczny]

11. May 2018 18:22 by th...@gmx.de :


> 
> Hi all,
> 
> would you say this picture is "off topic" ?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aeroway%3Dspaceport=1519060#Pictures
>  
> 
> 
> 




(1)




Adding massive images of rockets is not helpful in documenting how tags are 
used. 
OSM Wiki is not a place to present inspiring and beautiful images of every 
mapped objects. 
I recommend 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_pictures/Space_exploration 

for this purpose




This images were offtopic and should be removed ASAP if added again.




(2)




Your question is offtopic on this mailing list (@tagging)




(3)





 
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Re: [Tagging] Removing helpful information in wiki pages

[Paul Allen]

I'm not on the DWG.  I'm just a mapper who reads this mailing list.

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Thilo Haug  wrote:

> would you say this picture is "off topic" ?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:
> aeroway%3Dspaceport=1519060#Pictures
>

Yes.  WILDLY off topic.  Totally irrelevant to the content of the page.

The images of the launchpad, landingpad, hangar and runway are helpful to
distinguish exactly
what is meant by those values for aeroway=*.

The images below them are in no way relevant to aeroway=*.  Even you know
that because you pass
them off as "background information."  But they're not.  They do not help
understand the aeroway tag at
all.

I'd also say your rant on this mailing list is similarly off-topic.  Having
been told, politely, that your
irrelevant images were not appreciated, you posted your tedious
back-and-forth argument here
in the hope that somebody would take your side.

This is all purely my own opinion as an ordinary mapper with no connection
to the DWG.  But I have
to say that if I'd been the DWG member dealing with you I'd have found it
very, VERY difficult
to be as polite with you as he was.  Come to that, I'm finding it difficult
to be polite with you here.

-- 
Paul
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