Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
On 02/10/2010 02:07, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/9/30 Colin Smalecolin.sm...@xs4all.nl: Also important for routing systems is the practical speed for a road. Many country roads may have a high legal limit, but for reasons including width and curviness you may never achieve anywhere near that in practice. this depends on the vehicle and the expertise of the driver... Absolutely, and many other factors as well. But the point is that it has no relation to the legal maximum speed, which is the current definition of the maxspeed tag except that maxspeed should probably be the upper limit of the speed assumed by routing programs. The fact that a speed for routing purposes cannot be fairly expressed as a single figure is no reason to deny its importance. If it is not explicitly contained in the data, it might be derivable somehow, but even that will depend on the presence of certain base data. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
On 9/30/10 4:52 AM, Pieren wrote: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com mailto:stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Probably the simplest distinction is that various programs treat unclassified as a fast country road (eg, 100+kph), and residential as a quiet residential street (eg, 50-60kph). Take your pick. Could you provide some examples of such various programs because this distinction is new for me. So it means that a slow speed road serving industrial or retail areas are for you residential roads ? My definition of residential road is following what says the wiki for roads accessing or around residential areas, indepently of the speed limits. that's the correct approach. explicit, accurate maxspeed values are best. we as mappers have no control over how the different routing systems select default speeds. we should not be making assumptions about that. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
we as mappers have no control over how the different routing systems select default speeds. we should not be making assumptions about that. Also important for routing systems is the practical speed for a road. Many country roads may have a high legal limit, but for reasons including width and curviness you may never achieve anywhere near that in practice. So maybe an additional explicit tag for the effective speed for routing purposes? That might also stop people getting directed up goat tracks: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315762/White-van-man-airlifted-safety-satnav-sends-mountain.html I think this link was also posted earlier. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
On 9/30/10 7:38 AM, Colin Smale wrote: we as mappers have no control over how the different routing systems select default speeds. we should not be making assumptions about that. Also important for routing systems is the practical speed for a road. Many country roads may have a high legal limit, but for reasons including width and curviness you may never achieve anywhere near that in practice. i have at times wanted this, when i've seen a road that was defaulted to 55mph but wasn't practical to travel at more than 40 due to broken pavement, for example. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 9/30/10 7:38 AM, Colin Smale wrote: Also important for routing systems is the practical speed for a road. Many country roads may have a high legal limit, but for reasons including width and curviness you may never achieve anywhere near that in practice. i have at times wanted this, when i've seen a road that was defaulted to 55mph but wasn't practical to travel at more than 40 due to broken pavement, for example. For curves the government uses a ball bank indicator to measure the safe speed (which then goes on advisory speed limit signs). But I don't know of any defined method of giving a comfortable speed for rough pavement. There are some brick roads around here than are hell at any speed (especially on a bike, despite being signed bike routes...). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Residential roads
Hi Stephen, You've highlighted two grey areas I often struggle with. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: First, I've recently done a couple of roads in the country. They're either dead end roads or form some sort of web but are not connecting roads in the sense that they go anywhere else in particular. One example is about three or four km long, and has about 5 farms and a few smaller properties on it. How would you tag that? It's not what I would call a residential area, though obviously a few people do live there. Probably the simplest distinction is that various programs treat unclassified as a fast country road (eg, 100+kph), and residential as a quiet residential street (eg, 50-60kph). Take your pick. The other extreme is lanes in places like retirement villages and caravan parks. These are definitely residential areas, but are not full blown roads, usually only one lane wide and private roads, not publicly owned. Often with little or no curbing, etc. It feels wrong to just be marking them as residential. There's a continuum with these. Sometimes what looks like a retirement village or something is just a housing development, just like any other street but all built in the same style, by one construction company. If the houses have public street addresses (eg, 46 Jones St), I make them highway=residential. If they're addressed within the context of the development/retirement village/caravan park (eg, lot 15, Jones Park), I'd use something like highway=service. You do have to be careful not to see a narrow street and immediately leap at highway=service. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
